Used car market changes

[crispins]

I can't wait until Carvana collapses and knocks a big chunk out of the market

Why, I do not understand you thoughts here.

Are you just a hater of a company trying to change the way cars are bought.

I've seen this shit a few times here and not once from anyone who has actually delt with them.

 

[Void_of_Light]

Pretty sure the banks don’t care and are willing to finance at 16.99%.

They wouldn't finance anything 10+ years old or 100k miles at all when I asked. I have perfect credit and almost no debt. They said it was policy with no exceptions.

 

[Void_of_Light]

Why, I do not understand you thoughts here.

Are you just a hater of a company trying to change the way cars are bought.

I've seen this shit a few times here and not once from anyone who has actually delt with them.

They paid way too much for trade ins and can't sell them for what they paid. They are sitting on a mountain of overpriced vehicles and are losing money faster than the govt. It's inevitable.

They tried to corner the market by buying everything they were offered but most people refuse to pay what they are asking.

 

[Chevy_man]

Why, I do not understand you thoughts here.

Are you just a hater of a company trying to change the way cars are bought.

I've seen this shit a few times here and not once from anyone who has actually delt with them.

I give zero fucks about what they do.

But when you're on the news because you're failing hard, I take notice. It'll have market impacts.

If they fail, that inventory will be sold as quick as possible at auction for monetary recovery for the bankruptcy.

They aren't anywhere close to me, and I wouldn't deal with them, so I don't really care either way.

 

[Aggie06]

They wouldn't finance anything 10+ years old or 100k miles at all when I asked. I have perfect credit and almost no debt. They said it was policy with no exceptions.

Maybe it’s the age? I’ve seen plenty of adds for newer trucks with 100K at dealerships. Someone is offering financing.

 

[MuntCuffin]

Why, I do not understand you thoughts here.

Are you just a hater of a company trying to change the way cars are bought.

I've seen this shit a few times here and not once from anyone who has actually delt with them.

I can't understand who would buy a large purchase, like a used car, online sight unseen with no test drive, no peeking under the car, etc.

But then again, most people see a car like a refrigerator. Just run it till it quits, throw it away, and roll the remaining balance into a new car loan. Perpetual indebtedness. Its a good business model, yeah, but it plays off the ignorance of your consumers. No different than your average used car salesman, I suppose...but if your playing off peoples ignorance, whether that be their mechanical aptitude or their financial awareness, and they suddenly become enlightened and stop buying your shit.

Well....thats the fuckin' way she goes.

We have a carvana receiving warehouse close to a few of our fields. Semis in and out full of cars day and night. Hurting for competent mechanics. I had a resume up on indeed for 2 weeks. Carvana offered $35 an hour with a sign on bonus before an interview...
Bet that means the cars that are going out are not being reviewed with the best care and are just churned through as quickly as possible. Which inevitably leads to overlooked stuff.

 

[Norm]

Just because I'm curious , I looked at chevy's website for a new duramax @75k sticker. Note: it's a random zipcode

$2500 down, $1200 a month for 72 months . That's like a mortgage payment ......



72 months @ 5.9% APR 1
APR For Qualified Buyers.
Your estimate for ZIP code 83837
$1,286.94
per month
View Window Sticker
MSRP - Total Vehicle Price2$75,720.00

Your Price2$75,720.00

Down Payment-$2,500.00

Taxes and Fees$4,654.95
Estimated Tax 3$4,543.20
Estimated Registration Fee 4$111.75
Est. Net Price$80,374.95
Est. Amount Due at Delivery5$2,500.00
Est. Amount Financed$77,874.95




Used cars look about 6% interest also.

 

[crispins]

I give zero fucks about what they do.

But when you're on the news because you're failing hard, I take notice. It'll have market impacts.

If they fail, that inventory will be sold as quick as possible at auction for monetary recovery for the bankruptcy.

They aren't anywhere close to me, and I wouldn't deal with them, so I don't really care either way.

Why WOULDN't you deal with them?

What is it they have done that seems so egregious that you would not do business with them?

Have you ever bought a used car as I can promise that they were way shittier to deal with than Carvana.

I have bought 3 cars from them and sold them one, I have had nothing but a great experience with them.

BTW that is real world experience and not just seeing them on the news and being all like fuck them I am too good to deal with a company like that.

 

[Chevy_man]

Why WOULDN't you deal with them?

What is it they have done that seems so egregious that you would not do business with them?

Have you ever bought a used car as I can promise that they were way shittier to deal with than Carvana.

I have bought 3 cars from them and sold them one, I have had nothing but a great experience with them.

BTW that is real world experience and not just seeing them on the news and being all like fuck them I am too good to deal with a company like that.

You sound emotionally invested. I give zero fucks. They had an odd business model and it's failing.


As far as I know they don't have a location within 1000 miles of me.

So I'm probably not going to deal with them

 

[Chevy_man]

Just because I'm curious , I looked at chevy's website for a new duramax @75k sticker. Note: it's a random zipcode

$2500 down, $1200 a month for 72 months . That's like a mortgage payment ......



72 months @ 5.9% APR 1
APR For Qualified Buyers.
Your estimate for ZIP code 83837
$1,286.94
per month
View Window Sticker
MSRP - Total Vehicle Price2$75,720.00

Your Price2$75,720.00

Down Payment-$2,500.00

Taxes and Fees$4,654.95
Estimated Tax 3$4,543.20
Estimated Registration Fee 4$111.75
Est. Net Price$80,374.95
Est. Amount Due at Delivery5$2,500.00
Est. Amount Financed$77,874.95




Used cars look about 6% interest also.

I bet you have neighbors with 3-4x that for a mortgage payment.
I'm working with guys that are barely treading water on their 2500-3000/mo mortgage.


I have no idea how they do it, as I bought something I can afford on a week's salary every month, they need 3.
.

 

[crispins]

You sound emotionally invested. I give zero fucks. They had an odd business model and it's failing.


As far as I know they don't have a location within 1000 miles of me.

So I'm probably not going to deal with them

you have no idea how they work at all.

You are just like the uneducated people that have opinions on shit they have no idea about.

I do not know if they have a location within 1,000 miles of me either, because that is not how they work.

But I look at their website, find a car I like, and a few clicks later it shows up at my house for a 10 day free test drive, if I like it I keep it, if I dont they pick it up, ZERO cost to me.

Their cars also come with a 100 day warranty

I dont have to negotiate with the manager through a salesman, I don't have to talk to the finance manager and decline the tire warranty and all that BS.

Give an actual reason why you think they are not CORRECTLY reinventing the car buying experience, I'll wait.

 

[Texas97]

eco or 5.0?

Economical Booster

 

[Norm]

I bet you have neighbors with 3-4x that for a mortgage payment.
I'm working with guys that are barely treading water on their 2500-3000/mo mortgage.


I have no idea how they do it, as I bought something I can afford on a week's salary every month, they need 3.
.

The golden rule used to be max of 1/3 of your take home pay for mortgage. 2500-3000 mortgage would be 150k-200k income. A lot of folks on the edge will get jammed up in the next recession and someone looses their job. I've always been like you, 25% of my take home pay is about all I want in debt. I always made sure I could always make my mortgage working at Mcdonalds if things got really bad. Having a roof over my head, food, and heat necessary. Having a new truck and a big fancy house is a luxury. People need to learn the difference. Luxury's need to paid in cash, not debt.

 

[Gtrplyr78]

Just because I'm curious , I looked at chevy's website for a new duramax @75k sticker. Note: it's a random zipcode

$2500 down, $1200 a month for 72 months . That's like a mortgage payment ......



72 months @ 5.9% APR 1
APR For Qualified Buyers.
Your estimate for ZIP code 83837
$1,286.94
per month
View Window Sticker
MSRP - Total Vehicle Price2$75,720.00

Your Price2$75,720.00

Down Payment-$2,500.00

Taxes and Fees$4,654.95
Estimated Tax 3$4,543.20
Estimated Registration Fee 4$111.75
Est. Net Price$80,374.95
Est. Amount Due at Delivery5$2,500.00
Est. Amount Financed$77,874.95




Used cars look about 6% interest also.

Unless one can write some of this through a valid business use, I fail to see how an average person can justify this. Insanity on another level.

Soon we will go the way of Chinese/India with mopeds/rickshaw/bicycles replacing cars/trucks...

 

[Chevy_man]

you have no idea how they work at all.

You are just like the uneducated people that have opinions on shit they have no idea about.

I do not know if they have a location within 1,000 miles of me either, because that is not how they work.

But I look at their website, find a car I like, and a few clicks later it shows up at my house for a 10 day free test drive, if I like it I keep it, if I dont they pick it up, ZERO cost to me.

Their cars also come with a 100 day warranty

I dont have to negotiate with the manager through a salesman, I don't have to talk to the finance manager and decline the tire warranty and all that BS.

Give an actual reason why you think they are not CORRECTLY reinventing the car buying experience, I'll wait.

I live in a small town, there's 1 dealership that has Chevy, Ford, and Dodge.

I never have the back and forth. I walk in, look at the price sheet, maybe drive something, and write a cheque if I found what I wanted. My bank turns that cheque into a loan for me and starts the payments on autopay.

I've bought the last 4 trucks private party though. Only had to go to a dealer for the wife since she doesn't ever know what she wants until she sits in it. She went though about 15 cars before settling on her traverse. Pretty sure they weren't going to send a full transporter of cars for her to sit in


They may have been revolutionizing the process, but they sure aren't profitable and may very well fold.


I don't care if they stay or go, but you'd better start buying a lot more if you want them to stay around.


And I did check, they won't ship anything to me. They want me to go to Denver which is 12 hours 1 way, and they had 1 truck to choose from.

 

[TRINDU]

Give an actual reason why you think they are not CORRECTLY reinventing the car buying experience, I'll wait.

Because they are failing, in a spectacular fashion. Unless you consider reinventing a success, like Napster and Enron were a success in their arenas.

Anyone who did business with carvana, traded value for convenience. Carmax is a far superior business model. I hate carmax.

 

[kc8ksg]

Give an actual reason why you think they are not CORRECTLY reinventing the car buying experience, I'll wait.

Maybe they are reinventing the buying "experience" but they sure aren't doing the business side of things right.
You could watch them at the auction and they over pay for almost everything they buy. That worked out for them as prices were skyrocketing and people were scared to go anywhere, coupled with free money injected into the economy it was perfect for them.
Now that the free money is gone and prices are dropping it's not working out so well.
There was a point that they were trying to wholesale what they bought and they would buy one week and sell the next week and lose money.
Almost nobody wants to go deal with salesmen and F&I people or a lot of the car buying process.
However convenient thier process is for the buyer, it clearly isn't good for business since their stock went from $370 a share last year to under $5 currently.
Not to mention that Amazon way of buying is great until they don't get you a title and there's nowhere to go talk to someone and all you get is a person at a call center.
They've lost thier license in several states because of title issues.

 

[Norm]

Maybe they are reinventing the buying "experience" but they sure aren't doing the business side of things right.
You could watch them at the auction and they over pay for almost everything they buy. That worked out for them as prices were skyrocketing and people were scared to go anywhere, coupled with free money injected into the economy it was perfect for them.
Now that the free money is gone and prices are dropping it's not working out so well.
There was a point that they were trying to wholesale what they bought and they would buy one week and sell the next week and lose money.
Almost nobody wants to go deal with salesmen and F&I people or a lot of the car buying process.
However convenient thier process is for the buyer, it clearly isn't good for business since their stock went from $370 a share last year to under $5 currently.
Not to mention that Amazon way of buying is great until they don't get you a title and there's nowhere to go talk to someone and all you get is a person at a call center.
They've lost thier license in several states because of title issues.

Carvana doesn’t make money buying and selling cars, the money is in selling loans and warranty’s. If you look at the corporate structure you would have never bought any of their stock, it’s really screwy for a public company and there is no chance for a share holder to make any money, only the corporate officers will ever make money. There is some good analysis on YouTube. The whole company is a scheme.

 

[DRTDEVL]

The golden rule used to be max of 1/3 of your take home pay for mortgage. 2500-3000 mortgage would be 150k-200k income. A lot of folks on the edge will get jammed up in the next recession and someone looses their job. I've always been like you, 25% of my take home pay is about all I want in debt. I always made sure I could always make my mortgage working at Mcdonalds if things got really bad. Having a roof over my head, food, and heat necessary. Having a new truck and a big fancy house is a luxury. People need to learn the difference. Luxury's need to paid in cash, not debt.

Indeed they will.

My first home was like that. We were pre-approved for $169, bought at $130, and barely made ends meet with my military income (and an ex- who refused to work). This go-round, we decided that if our combined VA checks and my retirement couldn't cover the mortgage, utilities, gas/insurance for the car, and leave enough left over to eat, that wasn't the place for us. That paid dividends last winter when I wound up in the hospital for 3 months and my wife lost her job because it required Saturdays (retail management), yet there was now nobody at home to watch our son on the weekends (plus she could no longer work evenings). The small business had to move on from her and fill the position immediately. This meant we suddenly spent all of the winter and spring with no paychecks, only the VA and Retirement... and we made all the bills every month, only occasionally having to take money out of savings to fix/repair something or do the handyman work that I couldn't physically do at the time.

Now we're stacking the cash in the bank again to replenish the emergency funds... I think we have about 11 month's expenses in the bank combined right now, but I'd have to see how her accounts are doing. We could really use a newer SUV for the winter commutes (today was a bear in the Prius going down unplowed roads after 6" fell), but we've been holding off until that last month of expenses plus down payment (or cash purchase price) is in the bank (probably in the next 60 days). I've already had to file bankruptcy once in my life, never again do I want to go down that path.

 

[DannyK]

I‘d love to see sane truck prices again. I actually like the ‘17 + Super Duty body style, and figured one day they will be in the “reasonable price range”. Here is where they are sitting currently, $56k for a 5 year old truck with 100k miles. I ordered a brand new 2007 Duramax LTZ for less than that.

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What I’m worried about is with this massive EV push all of the “last gen” big internal combustion engines are going to hold onto their values like the pre - DPF diesel stuff did.

:edit: just found a few that are nearing being somewhat worth it with the 6.2L gas engine, coming down just under $40k.

It is going to be a while before 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are electric.

 

[95stepside]

for shits and giggles, I was going to look around and learned this:

Who would have guessed that the whole "we'll bring the car to you" thing doesnt apply to rural America?

 

[Void_of_Light]

It is going to be a while before 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are electric.

It's going to be a while before its economical for them to be electric.

Just because the technology isn't there, doesn't mean they won't try to force it on us.

 

[Norm]

scam-a-rama

 

[DannyK]

It's going to be a while before its economical for them to be electric.

Just because the technology isn't there, doesn't mean they won't try to force it on us.

Range is the problem. Anyone buying a 3/4 or 1 ton planning on towing a heavy load won't be interested in electric.

 

[Void_of_Light]

Range is the problem. Anyone buying a 3/4 or 1 ton planning on towing a heavy load won't be interested in electric.

That doesn't matter when there is an agenda to push.

 

[DannyK]

That doesn't matter when there is an agenda to push.

They might design them and put them on the dealer lots, but VERY few will be sold regardless of agenda.

 

[Penetrode Offroad]

I never liked the idea of the "this one looks nice, lets get that!" and never previously looked at it or test drove it. But ultimately I'll never use the service so fuck 'em.

 

[Void_of_Light]

They might design them and put them on the dealer lots, but VERY few will be sold regardless of agenda.

You are missing the point. If the govt decides 3/4 and 1 ton trucks need to be electric, you won't have an option. It will be a new electric or something old which will increase the price. Exactly what GatorGrizz was worried about.

 

[woods]

You are missing the point. If the govt decides 3/4 and 1 ton trucks need to be electric, you won't have an option. It will be a new electric or something old which will increase the price. Exactly what GatorGrizz was worried about.

If it gets to that point, wonder if we'll see conversion shops swapping in LS and diesels into them. Like the old school 2x4 to 4x4 conversion kits.

 

[kf4zht]

Why, I do not understand you thoughts here.

Are you just a hater of a company trying to change the way cars are bought.

I've seen this shit a few times here and not once from anyone who has actually delt with them.

Remember, some of us just want to watch the world burn. No stake in it either way, but clusterfucks make for entertainment

Bad .com strategies make for even better entertainment