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Ultra4 4600 VW Touareg V10 TDI Build

'84 Bronco II said:
The new owner ripped out the stock interior, added portals and turned it into a proper race car. I am not sure what other mechanical changes he might have made though since he bought it from Charles (Steel City Racing). It is TWC_Racing or something like that on Instagram.
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It’s to bad…. His wife won’t be able to daily drive it in the office-season!!!!
:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:
 
bunk said:
Naa. sounds heavy and slow. Build a racecar. A up with the times racecar. There are plenty of lookatmees in u4.
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Have you weighed copper? It's a two speed light winch.

Up with the times? Like a leaf spring Toyota or??
 
bunk said:
Naa. sounds heavy and slow. Build a racecar. A up with the times racecar. There are plenty of lookatmees in u4.
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Also doesn't work well for self recovery from a flop, unless they're electric pumps, which I don't see wtf you would do that for.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Also doesn't work well for self recovery from a flop, unless they're electric pumps, which I don't see wtf you would do that for.
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Neither do most after the first pull, and even more difficult from the front bumper sideways.

It'll have a smaller, lighter winch in the passenger area to pull left/right through the rear doors in the event of a capsize.
 
Pharr said:
Neither do most after the first pull, and even more difficult from the front bumper sideways.

It'll have a smaller, lighter winch in the passenger area to pull left/right through the rear doors in the event of a capsize.
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I've done it a few times. Sometimes you need a snatch block, but it works pretty easily.

I don't hate your idea, but I also wonder if it's unnecessary wieght.
 
Rear diff talk. Would a high pinion third have gotten the DS over the cross member and given enough room for the axles? I think it's a 4.5" difference?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I've done it a few times. Sometimes you need a snatch block, but it works pretty easily.

I don't hate your idea, but I also wonder if it's unnecessary wieght.
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Possibly, but it will be removable like on a receiver hitch for the short course races. Or if it sucks.

bdkw1 said:
Rear diff talk. Would a high pinion third have gotten the DS over the cross member and given enough room for the axles? I think it's a 4.5" difference?
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No the driveshaft tunnel puts the driveshaft in a small spot. The goofy subframe is "S" shaped and completely in the way of the axle stubs. We tried stuffing it in there in just about every orientation we could imagine. We also read that section of the rules just about 9,376 times to see how much grey area there was with the subframe. In the end we just moved it down and stared sadly.
 
Applaud your out of the box approach on this, certainly going to be the only VW on the start line.. dropping the diffs does give you more packaging options for uca's and shocks so might be an added benefit. Tempering innovation to not compromise reliability will be interesting on this one.

Theres alot to be learned from other attempts (steel city and other dnfs) build steering stronger than you need and get seat time to debug anything dumb you missed.
 
cchambers13 said:
Theres alot to be learned from other attempts (steel city and other dnfs) build steering stronger than you need and get seat time to debug anything dumb you missed.
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The steering should be fairly strong (will update eventually), but welcome to input on it or any aspect of the hotrod.
 
sounds like you have some good ideas, very intrigued to see how it plays out. andy chance of getting done ahead of KOH and try another race first to sort out bugs?
 
chaplinfj60 said:
sounds like you have some good ideas, very intrigued to see how it plays out. andy chance of getting done ahead of KOH and try another race first to sort out bugs?
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We took it to KOH this year, but it was only 3/4 done: spoiler alert
20230209_135127.jpg
Plan is to have it ready for Visions and the rest of the U4 series races.
 
Pharr said:
We took it to KOH this year, but it was only 3/4 done: spoiler alert
20230209_135127.jpg
Plan is to have it ready for Visions and the rest of the U4 series races.
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Well stop talking about it and post up some of that past progress... :flipoff2:
 
Sub'd. Love the creativity and out of the box thinking.

Also, vast difference from when you got it home to now :eek:
 
Pharr said:
We took it to KOH this year, but it was only 3/4 done: spoiler alert
20230209_135127.jpg
Plan is to have it ready for Visions and the rest of the U4 series races.
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Ah, I thought I saw this thing out there. I figured it had to be the same one or there were two mad scientists planning to race a vw in 4600
 
Pharr said:
*a little, yes.

How about a 10,500 hydraulic winch powered from a tandem gear pump? Stay tuned..
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As much as I love hydraulic winch, you'll be weight and speed ahead to drop the coin on a high speed electric with a halfway decent alternator, especially since you've already got dual batteries

The tradeoff in weight for the winch itself is negated by the tradeoff in pump and lines and valves require to get high speed hydraulics. Running a tandem gear pump always on will burn up more power than something where you have a clutch on the second pump for on demand. A RadialDynamics high flow power steering pump will be solid for steering, for example, but still leave you wanting for winch line speed.
 
Provience said:
As much as I love hydraulic winch, you'll be weight and speed ahead to drop the coin on a high speed electric with a halfway decent alternator, especially since you've already got dual batteries
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I no longer have dual batteries. I'm partnered with Antigravity Batteries and have their group H7 80ah, 2000CCA battery. It's 25 lbs and more powerful than the two it replaced. Part of the reason for the hydraulic winch: I don't want to kill the battery and the alternator isn't something I can upgrade on this motor.

Provience said:
The tradeoff in weight for the winch itself is negated by the tradeoff in pump and lines and valves require to get high speed hydraulics. Running a tandem gear pump always on will burn up more power than something where you have a clutch on the second pump for on demand.
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I more than make up for the weight dropping the lead. 120 pounds of batteries, replaced with 25. Burning power isn't a concern. At all. Lol.

Provience said:
A @RadialDynamics high flow power steering pump will be solid for steering, for example, but still leave you wanting for winch line speed.
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I'm also partnered with RadialDynamics, I worked with Eric to size the gear pump and am running his Vortex reservoirs and integrated filter/pressure relief valve combo. Due to space constraints and more importantly, the fact that this engine has no belts or chains for accessories (it's German, everything is gear driven internally), I can't run standard accessory and things like that pump.

The whole mess works as a system. I can't upgrade the alternator, and have lithium batteries, so electric winch is out. Antigravity didn't have any concerns with their batteries running a winch, but said it wasn't tested and the one I have is huge cranking power, not big steady power. I can't use a standard pump so a tandem pump with one circuit feeding the steering and one circuit feeding the winch gives me good volume/pressure for each purpose. I've got almost 600 ft/lbs of torque (in it's stock form...😉) So not too concerned with it eating 25hp.

I can go in to a little more detail in another post, but here's the hydraulic pump.
20230111_203757.jpg
 
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Sandy Johnson said:
Ah, I thought I saw this thing out there. I figured it had to be the same one or there were two mad scientists planning to race a vw in 4600
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There's a guy building a Porsche Cayenne for the Mint 400, but it's not as insane as this.
 
Pharr said:
I no longer have dual batteries. I'm partnered with Antigravity Batteries and have their group H7 80ah, 2000CCA battery. It's 25 lbs and more powerful than the two it replaced. Part of the reason for the hydraulic winch: I don't want to kill the battery and the alternator isn't something I can upgrade on this motor.


I more than make up for the weight dropping the lead. 120 pounds of batteries, replaced with 25. Burning power isn't a concern. At all. Lol.



I'm also partnered with RadialDynamics, I worked with Eric to size the gear pump and am running his Vortex reservoirs and integrated filter/pressure relief valve combo. Due to space constraints and more importantly, the fact that this engine has no belts or chains for accessories (it's German, everything is gear driven internally), I can't run standard accessory and things like that pump.

The whole mess works as a system. I can't upgrade the alternator, and have lithium batteries, so electric winch is out. Can't use a standard pump so a tandem pump with one circuit feeding the steering and one circuit feeding the winch gives me good volume/pressure for each purpose. I've got almost 600 ft/lbs of torque (in it's stock form...) So not too concerned with it eating 25hp.

I can go in to a little more detail in another post, but here's the hydraulic pump.
20230111_203757.jpg
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Sounds like you are pretty far along with it, so I'm all for the ride :smokin:

I'm also just the other guy going through hoops to run hydraulic winching so I'd love to see the full details as you go through it :grinpimp:
 
Pharr said:
I can't upgrade the alternator, and have lithium batteries, so electric winch is out.
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Please elaborate, why can't you upgrade the alternator?

It's not running going to be sharing the system with the power steering is it?

Hydro winches are such a dog and you'll be adding more cooling and more weight via the extra lines and fluid. But if anyone could figure out how to make a hydraulic winch run decent, it'd be RadialDynamics.
 
Tech Tim said:
Please elaborate, why can't you upgrade the alternator?
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From earlier;
Pharr said:
Due to space constraints and more importantly, the fact that this engine has no belts or chains for accessories (it's German, everything is gear driven internally), I can't run standard accessory and things like that pump.

The whole mess works as a system. I can't upgrade the alternator, and have lithium batteries, so electric winch is out. Antigravity didn't have any concerns with their batteries running a winch, but said it wasn't tested and the one I have is huge cranking power, not big steady powe
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Aaron Z
 
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