TTB Tech Tips?

[atoz2]

I got the cc824s for a bronco I’m building. It netted some lift, they feel pretty soft. Really need to find an easy way to mount longer shocks on it for some travel.this was right after I installed them. So far they have only settled a little. I may push the rear axle back with a zero rate to level it out.

Here is why i need to fit some longer shocks in

Rear stuffs good for still having a sway bar(too lazy to pull it before the trip)

Overall not bad for a budget rig. But I bashed in my new gas tank a decent bit.

Have an option to grab a 79 d44 for cheap. I’m trying to talk myself into keeping the TTB. But it’s tough when everyone else ****s on it and flex’s good . But in the washboards and the little jump this thing was a monster 5.8 is running good.

 

[LScout800]

Those 35's?

 

[willis_racing]

Really need to find an easy way to mount longer shocks on it for some travel

When I did my little TTB build this winter I used KYB KG5439s. They're about 9" travel and bolted right onto the 2wd Superduty radius arms I installed. No idea if they'll work great for fully stock, but they have like 3" more travel than the stockers so it'd be a place to start.

 

[atoz2]

Those 35's?

Yes 35s

When I did my little TTB build this winter I used KYB KG5439s. They're about 9" travel and bolted right onto the 2wd Superduty radius arms I installed. No idea if they'll work great for fully stock, but they have like 3" more travel than the stockers so it'd be a place to start.

I will take a look on this. debating the 2wd super duty arms but may weld in a uniball instead of teh bushings.

 

[arse_sidewards]

When I did my little TTB build this winter I used KYB KG5439s. They're about 9" travel and bolted right onto the 2wd Superduty radius arms I installed. No idea if they'll work great for fully stock, but they have like 3" more travel than the stockers so it'd be a place to start.

What application are those?

E-series rears are 9" travel and bolt right to OE Ranger radius arms but I won't be able to keep them when I go to the SD arms because the Ranger arm mounts the shock bolt a couple inches lower.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Yes 35s

I will take a look on this. debating the 2wd super duty arms but may weld in a uniball instead of teh bushings.

I'd weld a uniball into the beam pivot before I welded one into the arm.

 

[atoz2]

I'd weld a uniball into the beam pivot before I welded one into the arm.

I just figure if I am already installing longer arms I might as well not limit myself by the O.E. bushing. Do you think pivot uniballs will be that much of an improvement? My original ideal was just poly pivots.

 

[665.0coupe]

Usually people put uniball's in the beam pivots and rod ends on the end of the radius arms. I don't think I've ever seen uniball's on the end of the radius arm.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Usually people put uniball's in the beam pivots and rod ends on the end of the radius arms. I don't think I've ever seen uniball's on the end of the radius arm.

The 99-04 2wd arm is set up for a press in style bushing like a beam pivot. A uniball makes sense there if you can find/make one fit.

 

[atoz2]

The 99-04 2wd arm is set up for a press in style bushing like a beam pivot. A uniball makes sense there if you can find/make one fit.

That is my thought. I can get 2wd arms cheap enough, but the brackets seem to be elusive. I may have to try and pull some or maybe I'll buy some superlift arms? It seems anything with Heim joint on the end is going to be 1k or more. I could regear and maybe get a lunchbox for the front for that much.

 

[willis_racing]

What application are those?

E-series rears are 9" travel and bolt right to OE Ranger radius arms but I won't be able to keep them when I go to the SD arms because the Ranger arm mounts the shock bolt a couple inches lower.

My notes indicated that they're the front shocks in a quad shock optioned 85 bronco, under the "increased handling" tab on rockauto. The dimensions were exactly what I wanted, and there isn't a big roll sleeve in the bottom bushing so they fit the big pins on the SD arms.

 

[Projectjunkie]

On my big early bronco, I copied my buddies build, 7" lift, full width axles, extended radius arms etc, as I'd been wheeling with him and it worked well. He had heims on the frame side of his radius arms and was having to replace them often, and they were noisy and rough on the street. Since the arms were stretched 14" or so, they really didn't have all that much angle on them. I opted to run oe style rubber, and was happy with them. I didn't put a ton of miles on it the rest of my ownership, but I didn't see any downside to it

 

[atoz2]

Honest question here. Just for the experienced people here.

Before I start diving into committing to the TTB build is this something that is semi scalable?

I have seen some reports back of some TTB rigs out on the Rubicon trail with some success. If I were to build this decent would it be something I could bring out to a few higher caliber trails? I am sure this is a "you don't know until you know" situation.

Just been mulling over my options, I've had a solid Dana 50 in my back yard for a while. wouldn't be much to leaf swap and run a full-size rear end(10.25/70/etc).

I am sure I am splitting hairs. In an ideal world I'd want some capable enough to enjoy some out of state adventures. But still drivable for a weekend toy out here locally in MT. Relatively speaking the TTB upgrades are simpler and in theory easier to knockout in a weekend. I have become a bit gun shy of downtime since I have missed out on more trips than I can count tearing into something for a couple of weekends.

I'm sure it can be scaled to that level looking at '84 Bronco II's rig or maybe NickOille's on the fullsize bronco forum.

 

['84 Bronco II]

atoz2, I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but I would not hesitate to run my Bronco II down the Rubicon. You reference "Iconic Trails" and my Bronco II has wheeled Moab (Golden Spike, Kane Creek, Fin N' Things, Lockhart Basin, etc.), The Hole In The Rock Trail in SE Utah, Blanca Peak in Colorado, Sand Hollow (Plan B, John's Trail, Sliplock Gulch, West Rim, etc.), and I have had it out at the Hammers a couple of times during KOH, but I didn't really wheel it much.

Using the 10 scale with 1 being a maintained dirt road and 10 being a buggy only trail, my Bronco II is pretty comfortable on a 6/10 trail. 7/10 is about as hard as I am willing to do with it, but I have taken it on a few 8/10 trails that suited it strengths well.

I am assuming you have a fullsize? That makes it a bit tougher due to the extra weight and the stock Dana 44 shafts have the same failure point as the Dana 35 shafts. Regardless, if you want to run hard trails on 35" or bigger tires with a locked front end, plan on getting some upgraded axle shafts and at least running Spicer 5-760X U-joints with full circle clips. Jeff's Bronco Graveyard has 4340 stock replacement shafts for pretty cheap; although they are conspicuously lacking an upgraded slip yoke option. RCV has a COTS option for the 1/2-ton Dana 44 TTB, but none of the other TTB configurations. Currie and Solo also sell 4340 shafts, and hopefully the 4340 slip yoke Solo was working on for years is finally available. Then there's always custom shaft manufacturers like Dutchman, Foote, and Branik as well as the Dana 50 passenger inner upgrade.

I like what willis_racing did with his Bronco, but he hasn't really wheeled it as far as I know since he did all the upgrades.

 

[reptillikus]

Biggest problem I had wheeling a TTB was I kept knocking the alignment out in the rocks. Running beefier steering would have gone a long way to keeping it together. Swingset steering probably would have been a good idea but I got too good of a deal on one tons to bother trying to beef it up.
Nowadays I DD a TTB bronco and it rides really nice, but I had to align it once a year for a couple years until the coils broke in and settled. I definitely pay a lot more attention to the alignment in my TTB truck than I do the straight axle ones.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Biggest problem I had wheeling a TTB was I kept knocking the alignment out in the rocks. Running beefier steering would have gone a long way to keeping it together. Swingset steering probably would have been a good idea but I got too good of a deal on one tons to bother trying to beef it up.
Nowadays I DD a TTB bronco and it rides really nice, but I had to align it once a year for a couple years until the coils broke in and settled. I definitely pay a lot more attention to the alignment in my TTB truck than I do the straight axle ones.

Some beefy steering linkage with half way decent geometry will eliminate that issue. I haven't aligned my Bronco II in 7 years (when I first installed the XJ coils) and just took it on an 1,100 mile wheeling trip without any issues.

 

[bdkw1]

Single swing steering is a must have.

 

[arse_sidewards]

It's a real ****in shame they never made TTB trucks in RHD or we could have a slave style steering box on the right side and it'd have the swing geometry perfect and provide extra assist.

 

[JR4X]

It's a real ****in shame they never made TTB trucks in RHD or we could have a slave style steering box on the right side and it'd have the swing geometry perfect and provide extra assist.

Would it be worth retrofitting a pair of mirror image boxes? I’m not 100% sure what all models of mirror image boxes exist. A ford TTB box is stronger than any Jeep box. But maybe a pair of JK boxes combined would be tougher than one ford box.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Would it be worth retrofitting a pair of mirror image boxes? I’m not 100% sure what all models of mirror image boxes exist. A ford TTB box is stronger than any Jeep box. But maybe a pair of JK boxes combined would be tougher than one ford box.

I don't think the work is worth it vs swingset and hydro assist unless you have a RHD box around. I was just saying it's a shame that the "hard" part of a swingset (getting **** with the correct geometry onto the pass frame rail) wasn't already done for us from the factory.

 

[BDK]

Used to wheel all over the western US with some modified 1st gen Explorers and Rangers. Before I SAS'd my 1994 Explorer I ran the Rubicon twice, Moab, Truckhaven Hills, etc. Solid 15 years of offroading. Had a modified 5" Superlift. Added heims to the radius arms because it would blow bushings once or twice a year. It would blow the Superrunner steering bushings everytime I used the front ARB.

I did the SAS when I finally got tired of being on two wheels most of the time. Solid front axle adds a lot of stability, simplicity and reliability over the TTB.

 

[atoz2]

atoz2, I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but I would not hesitate to run my Bronco II down the Rubicon. You reference "Iconic Trails" and my Bronco II has wheeled Moab (Golden Spike, Kane Creek, Fin N' Things, Lockhart Basin, etc.), The Hole In The Rock Trail in SE Utah, Blanca Peak in Colorado, Sand Hollow (Plan B, John's Trail, Sliplock Gulch, West Rim, etc.), and I have had it out at the Hammers a couple of times during KOH, but I didn't really wheel it much.

Using the 10 scale with 1 being a maintained dirt road and 10 being a buggy only trail, my Bronco II is pretty comfortable on a 6/10 trail. 7/10 is about as hard as I am willing to do with it, but I have taken it on a few 8/10 trails that suited it strengths well.

I am assuming you have a fullsize? That makes it a bit tougher due to the extra weight and the stock Dana 44 shafts have the same failure point as the Dana 35 shafts. Regardless, if you want to run hard trails on 35" or bigger tires with a locked front end, plan on getting some upgraded axle shafts and at least running Spicer 5-760X U-joints with full circle clips. Jeff's Bronco Graveyard has 4340 stock replacement shafts for pretty cheap; although they are conspicuously lacking an upgraded slip yoke option. RCV has a COTS option for the 1/2-ton Dana 44 TTB, but none of the other TTB configurations. Currie and Solo also sell 4340 shafts, and hopefully the 4340 slip yoke Solo was working on for years is finally available. Then there's always custom shaft manufacturers like Dutchman, Foote, and Branik as well as the Dana 50 passenger inner upgrade.

I like what willis_racing did with his Bronco, but he hasn't really wheeled it as far as I know since he did all the upgrades.

Essentially answering my questions, I generally have had a real hard time with decision making since parting ways with my explorer. I am honestly surprised I got back into wheeling. I see the benefits of a solid axle but I am not sure I personally have the follow through to commit to another decent build. I just think since I have already been down the radius arm D44 route and am a bit turned off by it. My explorer was probably the best on half tons and a wristed radius arm. I liked my duff arms but by the time I started comparing it to a 3 link or even leafs I was put off.

I wanted to ask how you liked the donut bushing radius arms on your rig? do they ever get hung up on obstacles? That is the only advantage I can see in the jointed arms, I feel like they would skid over things much easier. I have an option to grab some 99-04 2wd SD radius arms but am concerned about the survivability of the bushings in the back, I think It might be money ahead to go with something designed to move laterally like stock. But maybe willis_racing can comment at some point on the flexibility and durability of that style of bushing.

I agree, stock shafts would be something for me to upgrade and the dana 50 inner should accompany that. I am really just at the planning stage weighing pros and cons before I can pull the trigger. I appreciate the insight. What are your thoughts on uniball pivots vs poly bushing replacements? Ideally I would like to maximize what travel I can get without lifting the bronco much more. AS BDK put it, this will be on two wheels in many situations and I think keeping it relatively low and skidding the low hanging fruit would be the way to go.

Biggest problem I had wheeling a TTB was I kept knocking the alignment out in the rocks. Running beefier steering would have gone a long way to keeping it together. Swingset steering probably would have been a good idea but I got too good of a deal on one tons to bother trying to beef it up.
Nowadays I DD a TTB bronco and it rides really nice, but I had to align it once a year for a couple years until the coils broke in and settled. I definitely pay a lot more attention to the alignment in my TTB truck than I do the straight axle ones.

I believe I would be pretty alright running a stonecrusher setup like '84 Bronco II's rig. I eye balled my caster after the coils and It seems to be pretty happy so far. I also have only really lifted the front 1.5"s so I am sure that is helping the stock geometry. NickOille's rig ended up with swingset(and hydro assist) after a couple years of regularly hitting some decent trails. but that is the trade off as swingset will set me back a decent bit. Not to mention radius arm prices are nuts if you are looking for heims. I could build some but I am not sold on it. I have become pretty value oriented, a lot of mods I did on my explorer were pricey but never seemed completely worth it. I will say hydro assist was worth it. I wasn't sold on selectable lockers until I had my YJ with ARBs it was pretty convenient, until I had some issues.

Used to wheel all over the western US with some modified 1st gen Explorers and Rangers. Before I SAS'd my 1994 Explorer I ran the Rubicon twice, Moab, Truckhaven Hills, etc. Solid 15 years of offroading. Had a modified 5" Superlift. Added heims to the radius arms because it would blow bushings once or twice a year. It would blow the Superrunner steering bushings everytime I used the front ARB.

I did the SAS when I finally got tired of being on two wheels most of the time. Solid front axle adds a lot of stability, simplicity and reliability over the TTB.

I hope you are doing well, I read through your build guide many times before I bought Jack Sloan's front end out of his explorer and SAS'd. It wasn't until I start wheeling my autos I saw why you ended up with the 700r4 swap. I had one in my YJ and really changed my mind I don't think I would go back to a manual rig. I think you really nailed some points It certainly is capable enough to hit some 'Iconic' trails which is what I was looking for support on. I am still surprised on the level of hate this suspension system receives when it comes to any aspect other than prerunning.

 

[bdkw1]

It's a real ****in shame they never made TTB trucks in RHD or we could have a slave style steering box on the right side and it'd have the swing geometry perfect and provide extra assist.

Saw a F250 in AU that's was RHD. same year as my truck, it was weird looking at the backwards dash. All the steering was 100% mirrored. Guy was probably wondering why I was rolling around under his truck.

 

[BDK]

With the TTB I had modified Superlift RA's. The axle tabs broke off twice. I doubled the tab thickness and they held up.

My SAS sits on 14" Radflo coilovers and has Duff arms. I really like the Duff arms, they have taken a beating. Had one rod end get clunky in about ten years of trails. I replaced the head bushings a few years ago because one split. I flat tow it behind my RV, trails, long distance off road stuff, it's a all around great rig that crawls well. Stable on the highway, and very flexy on the trail.

One issue with your big Bronco is its wide. Explorers have the same body width as a XJ so they fit on tight trails. You will have to expect body damage. I don't seek it out, but I don't get upset if it happens.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Saw a F250 in AU that's was RHD. same year as my truck, it was weird looking at the backwards dash. All the steering was 100% mirrored. Guy was probably wondering why I was rolling around under his truck.

That's wild. I couldn't even find any confirmation of a RHD 3-bolt Ford box (80-96 + e-series and 99-04) existing. It would have to be its own casting. Knowing how that **** gets made it would be pretty trivial for the supplier to do if their pattern makers aren't idiots (just assemble and cast backwards, basically) and then putting reverse (from the perspective of the "normal" steering box" swing internals in. Wonder if some upfitter in Aus, SA, or something like that bought a run of a few hundo in the 80s or 90s since once box would cover a ****ton of applications and you just gotta **** with dashes and steering after that. Seems like the '05+ platform has a lot more RHD conversion activity going on or that could just be a reflection of them being "current" so there's more internet info about them.

 

[bdkw1]

Also, you don't need a RHD specific box, just outside the frame box......

Ironically on my last fiberglass buggy, I ran dual steering box's. This cut down on the RH tie rod length and it running into things. Also made a handy spare for when the main box blew up........ Because, VW........

 

[arse_sidewards]

Also, you don't need a RHD specific box, just outside the frame box......

The fact that there isn't something that is readily available with perfect geometry kills it. Might as well build a swingset if it's not basically bolt on.

 

['84 Bronco II]

With the TTB I had modified Superlift RA's. The axle tabs broke off twice. I doubled the tab thickness and they held up.

My SAS sits on 14" Radflo coilovers and has Duff arms. I really like the Duff arms, they have taken a beating. Had one rod end get clunky in about ten years of trails. I replaced the head bushings a few years ago because one split. I flat tow it behind my RV, trails, long distance off road stuff, it's a all around great rig that crawls well. Stable on the highway, and very flexy on the trail.

One issue with your big Bronco is its wide. Explorers have the same body width as a XJ so they fit on tight trails. You will have to expect body damage. I don't seek it out, but I don't get upset if it happens.

For comparisons sake with 9" shocks

I wanted to ask how you liked the donut bushing radius arms on your rig? do they ever get hung up on obstacles? That is the only advantage I can see in the jointed arms, I feel like they would skid over things much easier. I have an option to grab some 99-04 2wd SD radius arms but am concerned about the survivability of the bushings in the back, I think It might be money ahead to go with something designed to move laterally like stock. But maybe @willis_racing can comment at some point on the flexibility and durability of that style of bushing.

I haven't had any issues with my poly bushings. I am running the Skyjacker bushings that came with my Radius arms 12 years ago, and I replaced the original 1994 rubber bushings in the beam pivots with Energy Suspension poly bushings 5 years ago. For offroad use, I think spherical bearings are a better way to go, but I don't think they are that much of an upgrade over poly bushings. Certainly not something that needs to be a priority for a trail rig.

 

[atoz2]

For comparisons sake with 9" shocks

I haven't had any issues with my poly bushings. I am running the Skyjacker bushings that came with my Radius arms 12 years ago, and I replaced the original 1994 rubber bushings in the beam pivots with Energy Suspension poly bushings 5 years ago. For offroad use, I think spherical bearings are a better way to go, but I don't think they are that much of an upgrade over poly bushings. Certainly not something that needs to be a priority for a trail rig.

I am really impressed with how this bronco 2 articulates. honestly if more people could get these results TTb would be scrapped less.

I am certainly leaning towards keeping the TTB, Seems like more bang for the buck(given what I will genuinely end up using it for.) I will keep you all posted once I sort myself out

 

[JR4X]

I am really impressed with how this bronco 2 articulates. honestly if more people could get these results TTb would be scrapped less.

I am certainly leaning towards keeping the TTB, Seems like more bang for the buck(given what I will genuinely end up using it for.) I will keep you all posted once I sort myself out

If I had more time and resources to do the dumb **** I think of. I’d be the second person to remove a D60 from a centurion and put TTB in it on purpose. For what I do with it I can’t imagine it being a problem and it would ride SO much better than 4” of leaf spring travel it has now.