TTB Tech Tips?

[BDK]

Mine articulated fine, it was the highway manners and unstability while crawling that go me to go with a SAS. When a tire goes up on a rock, there's no leverage to push the opposite tire down so they both end up off the ground. No sway bars and a loose TTB makes for some interesting death wobble on the highway. I tried my best to make the TTB work for me. I was to the point where I was going to go full race type TTB or a SAS. SAS was clearly the choice for me because I wanted it to do everything good, and it does.

If I tried this with the TTB it would be flopped (poser shots after I finished the SAS)

 

['84 Bronco II]

Mine articulated fine, it was the highway manners and unstability while crawling that go me to go with a SAS. When a tire goes up on a rock, there's no leverage to push the opposite tire down so they both end up off the ground. No sway bars and a loose TTB makes for some interesting death wobble on the highway. I tried my best to make the TTB work for me. I was to the point where I was going to go full race type TTB or a SAS. SAS was clearly the choice for me because I wanted it to do everything good, and it does.

If I tried this with the TTB it would be flopped (poser shots after I finished the SAS)

A TTB certainly won't match a solid axle for all out crawling, and if my Bronco II were magically stock again and I were starting from scratch, I would probably put a solid axle in it. That said, the TTB does ride nice off road, and it is cool being the only guy with IFS on "hard" trails.

Like I said earlier, I think if 6-7 rated trails are about as hard as you plan on doing (significant body damage is pretty much a guarantee running 8+ trails), a TTB is a valid consideration.

Yes my truck is a bit "loose" on the highway, but it is still totally drivable. Maybe you didn't actually mean death wobble, but if you have death wobble, something is wrong. Other than being loud and slow, I would not hesitate to drive my truck on the interstate.

 

[atoz2]

Mine articulated fine, it was the highway manners and unstability while crawling that go me to go with a SAS. When a tire goes up on a rock, there's no leverage to push the opposite tire down so they both end up off the ground. No sway bars and a loose TTB makes for some interesting death wobble on the highway. I tried my best to make the TTB work for me. I was to the point where I was going to go full race type TTB or a SAS. SAS was clearly the choice for me because I wanted it to do everything good, and it does.

If I tried this with the TTB it would be flopped (poser shots after I finished the SAS)

I liked my SAS explorer, It was good to me and stable. It might just be my experience with the bronco but I dove about 250 miles round trip on the interstate, no front sway bar. I was pleasantly surprised. Even with 3.55s I managed to pass a lot of traffic the ride was good. I may have just been lucky pulling this from a field but the front shocks were original motocrafts I had removed them before the trip. No alignment, I just Eyeballed the camber adjustment after throwing in the new coils. It seems really stable and predictable when it will lift a tire. again I am working with an essentially stock height bronco on 35s. Really the trips I have been on it has impressed me with the performance with little to no modifications. The majority of the trail was fairly steep rocky hill climbs and aside from my low hanging fruit dragging It did great. A front locker would've 100% made my 3 wheeling issues better.

A TTB certainly won't match a solid axle for all out crawling, and if my Bronco II were magically stock again and I were starting from scratch, I would probably put a solid axle in it. That said, the TTB does ride nice off road, and it is cool being the only guy with IFS on "hard" trails.

Like I said earlier, I think if 6-7 rated trails are about as hard as you plan on doing (significant body damage is pretty much a guarantee running 8+ trails), a TTB is a valid consideration.

Yes my truck is a bit "loose" on the highway, but it is still totally drivable. Maybe you didn't actually mean death wobble, but if you have death wobble, something is wrong. Other than being loud and slow, I would not hesitate to drive my truck on the interstate.

This mentality is what is making the decisions hard. I see plenty of IFS toyota's out there hitting the interstate, wheeling some fairly hard trails, and making it work. Not trying to compare a traditional IFS to TTB. But It begs the question why TTB is so often **** on. I am open minded and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each system. Given what I have available to me short of building to the 9 and going tons/40s wheelbase stretch. I don't see a massive improvement in removing the stock system.

Given what I have available to me even a 44 SAS I would be into it probably $1000 with stock style radius arms. Assuming the axle is in good condition and I won't have to completely go through the brakes, bearings, and ball joints. This would be swapping to 79' Style frame buckets and f250 shock mounts to push the front forwards and purchasing solid axle coils.

Given that money I could get gears and chromo front shafts? Or gears and a lunchbox locker? I would think that puts me ahead above swapping the whole front for some more articulation. Duff radius arms would be a big investment for again more articulation they are about the same cost as TTB radius arms. I could get BDS arms and stick to the donut bushing for less. Dollar for Dollar It seems like I could get more with the TTB unless I were to get a whole 79 parts truck for cheap.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Given what I have available to me even a 44 SAS I would be into it probably $1000 with stock style radius arms. Assuming the axle is in good condition and I won't have to completely go through the brakes, bearings, and ball joints. This would be swapping to 79' Style frame buckets and f250 shock mounts to push the front forwards and purchasing solid axle coils.

Personally I have never thought a Dana 44 solid axle swap in a fullsize with a Dana 44 TTB made much sense. If you have a Ranger/Explorer/Bronco II with a Dana 28 or Dana 35, sure, but in a full size, it is more or less a lateral move other than a solid Dana 44 having more aftermarket support. I wouldn't solid axle swap a fullsize for anything less than a Dana 60 (an argument could be made for a Superduty Dana 50, but still).

 

[bdkw1]

TTB can be dead stable on the freeway. A lot of Broncos handling issues are frame related. The bumoers on them are structural, take them off and it's almost undeliverable. Low number of cross members and not tight rivets. Cutting back the frame horns and boxing in the front real well helps greatly.

Single swinger, lower BJ's moved out 1/2", good caster and camber it will dive like a dream.

 

[BDK]

Yes my truck is a bit "loose" on the highway, but it is still totally drivable. Maybe you didn't actually mean death wobble, but if you have death wobble, something is wrong. Other than being loud and slow, I would not hesitate to drive my truck on the interstate.

My Explorer would hit a bump on the highway and start rocking left front, right rear with severe body roll, and keep getting worse until I had to brake or accelerate through it. I used to wheel with a bunch of guys who experienced the same issues. TTB death wobble.

 

[willis_racing]

But maybe @willis_racing can comment at some point on the flexibility and durability of that style of bushing.

Unfortunately '84 Bronco II hit it on the head with mine. My intention over the next few years of my build is to build it into about the same level of capability as his rig, which sounds pretty parallel to your goals. But I'm not there yet. Right this second, the truck is getting used as a jet ski mule down at our local lake, and I'm not super keen on putting it in the rocks with this wheel/tire setup because the boggers are old enough to drink and would be completely destroyed in a few hours of wheeling. You'll have to stay tuned for quite awhile for me to get any good data on bushing longevity with my setup, but it will happen eventually. took this pic today.

I can comment a bit on flexibilty, I seem to have as much travel as is reasonable for a stockish height longarm setup. It seems to hit bind in the bushings and stop the droop of the beam before his Bronco ii, but it will depend a bit on the length of your coils and weight of your wheel/ tire package. The beams hang off of my 2" levelling coils before I hit bind, as shown in this pic here.

 

[bdkw1]

My Explorer would hit a bump on the highway and start rocking left front, right rear with severe body roll, and keep getting worse until I had to brake or accelerate through it. I used to wheel with a bunch of guys who experienced the same issues. TTB death wobble.

Sounds like a shock problem, I've never seen one do that.

 

[welndmn]

TTB has come a long way in the last 10/15 years, there are so many good companies that make after market parts for them.
The main issue is budget, you can toss a lot of money into a TTB system and not get a the gains your build might be wanting.

 

[arse_sidewards]

, you can toss a lot of money into a TTB system and not get a the gains your build might be wanting.

However bad it is any OEM A-arm system is worse

 

[mobil1syn]

I am sure I am splitting hairs. In an ideal world I'd want some capable enough to enjoy some out of state adventures. But still drivable for a weekend toy out here locally in MT. Relatively speaking the TTB upgrades are simpler and in theory easier to knockout in a weekend. I have become a bit gun shy of downtime since I have missed out on more trips than I can count tearing into something for a couple of weekends.

look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how much body damage you are willing to deal with, then you can answer the suspension question.

unless you are wheeling the hammers or hidden az trails with a complete disregard for the body TTB is more than sufficient if you dont drive like an idiot. put an ARB in the front, use it sparingly and rock out.

 

[atoz2]

look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how much body damage you are willing to deal with, then you can answer the suspension question.

unless you are wheeling the hammers or hidden az trails with a complete disregard for the body TTB is more than sufficient if you dont drive like an idiot. put an ARB in the front, use it sparingly and rock out.

This is what I needed. Body isn’t too much of a concern. I already laid it into a tree on the passenger side and ****ed the passenger rocker a couple times on some rocks. It’s a cheap pulled from the field wheeler.

TTB has come a long way in the last 10/15 years, there are so many good companies that make after market parts for them.
The main issue is budget, you can toss a lot of money into a TTB system and not get a the gains your build might be wanting.

Exactly why I plowed into this thread so hard. It’s definitely a slippery slope, trying to think budget minded and get the most I can without tossing one ton swap money at it.

 

[BDK]

The TTB will work fine for moderate to difficult trails with a small lift and longer radius arms. The first lift I had on the Explorer was a Rancho 2.5" lift and it worked very well for what it was. But that was only the beginning on the modification addiction.

 

[atoz2]

The TTB will work fine for moderate to difficult trails with a small lift and longer radius arms. The first lift I had on the Explorer was a Rancho 2.5" lift and it worked very well for what it was. But that was only the beginning on the modification addiction.

Another thing I am trying to avoid. I get too drawn into ever improving something. Probably will happen, but my plan is to work within the limitations I set.

 

[mobil1syn]

Another thing I am trying to avoid. I get too drawn into ever improving something. Probably will happen, but my plan is to work within the limitations I set.

spend all your money on shocks. fox 2.5x12 coilover w/dsc, fox 3.0x12 3tube rear bypass. dive head first into the shock valving rabbit hole and youll be amazed what you can do and it will keep you entertained.

plenty of cheap ways to extend radius arms, keep stock width and drive the wheels off it

 

[BDK]

Another thing I am trying to avoid. I get too drawn into ever improving something. Probably will happen, but my plan is to work within the limitations I set.

That's how my plans start

spend all your money on shocks. fox 2.5x12 coilover w/dsc, fox 3.0x12 3tube rear bypass. dive head first into the shock valving rabbit hole and youll be amazed what you can do and it will keep you entertained.

plenty of cheap ways to extend radius arms, keep stock width and drive the wheels off it

Then there's this guy. I think he's planning on building the entire rig for about the cost of those shocks.

 

[posford]

Go dig up mjlogan88s thread on PBB of his 85? Ranger. What it lacked in suspension it made up for in body damage. Looked like he wheeled the **** out of it too

 

[atoz2]

Go dig up mjlogan88s thread on PBB of his 85? Ranger. What it lacked in suspension it made up for in body damage. Looked like he wheeled the **** out of it too

This was a great read, essentially what I needed. nice to see mobil1syn comments on the thread too! reinforces my ideas for this one.

pictures really make it pop. I think I might grab some of the 2wd SD arms and mess with them! Thanks guys!

 

[arse_sidewards]

Did they do high pinion 3.73s in the D44/50 prior to the superduty era D50? I can't find 3.73s for any other application on car-part and I really don't wanna do a re-gear since it's $250ish.

 

[JR4X]

Did they do high pinion 3.73s in the D44/50 prior to the superduty era D50? I can't find 3.73s for any other application on car-part and I really don't wanna do a re-gear since it's $250ish.

That wasn’t a common ford ratio back then as far as I know. They seemed to jump from 3.55 to 4.10 in all the applications I had , 1/2 ton 3/4 and 1 ton.

 

[reptillikus]

Yeah I can't recall ever seeing a factory 3.73 in the 80-97 trucks. Lots of 3.55, 4.10 and some 3.08 but not 3.73.

 

[70 tp]

I have a ttb 88 f150 out in the garage with 3:73 gears if that is what the application would be for. 351w , c6 , with tow package

 

[arse_sidewards]

Car part doesn't think that exists.

Wanna trade for a 4.10 or 3.54 third?

I've even got a 3.31 if you want something equally obscure.

 

[JR4X]

Car part doesn't think that exists.

Wanna trade for a 4.10 or 3.54 third?

I've even got a 3.31 if you want something equally obscure.

That reminds me. I have a 78 full-size bronco that came with a 400 an NP435 NP205 and it had 3.73’s from the factory. I sold them for stupid money why was odd to me because that’s a ratio I don’t want for anything. I sold parts off the undesirable front axle for more than I paid for the Bronco. Only old 3.73 truck I’ve ever had

 

[arse_sidewards]

3.73 D50s aren't that expensive, I'd just rather re-seal a 3rd and not **** around if it can be avoided.

 

[atoz2]

Got my arms, they are a bit beefier than I thought. Local wrecker had these packed to ship out and the buyer never paid. I was looking into welding a uniball in where the bushing goes. But it’s looking like a bit more work than I think the bronco is worth. Going to scrounge some more parts before I tear into the front end. Debating what I want to do about steering, given my low lift height I am debating just using the ambulance steering upgrade over stonecrusher because I am lazy.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Cool to see someone building a Dana 50

Converting to 35 spline inners is something that has been discussed a lot, but I haven't seen anyone actually do it. Might be worth looking into. Supposedly you can get and ARB with 35 spline side gears swapped in since ARB uses the same spiders in similarly-sized diffs. I have also read that it is possible to use a Dana 44 carrier (which are available in 35 spline and fit a Dana 50 ring gear without modification) with Dana 44 carrier bearings (same outer race diameter as Dana 50 carrier bearings, but smaller ID to fit the Dana 44 carrier journals) along with some creative carrier shimming.

You could also look at getting the side gears of whatever carrier you decide to run EDMed to 35 spline, but that may be cost prohibitive..

So does this mean I can run basically any D44 locker or limited slip option in a D50 as long as I'm willing to **** around with moving the carrier way over in one direction or another with shims?

 

['84 Bronco II]

So does this mean I can run basically any D44 locker or limited slip option in a D50 as long as I'm willing to **** around with moving the carrier way over in one direction or another with shims?

That is my understanding. The carrier journals are smaller on a Dana 44, but the outer Race diameter is the same between a Dana 44 and a Dana 50, and the Dana 50 ring gear fits on a Dana 44 carrier, hence the Jana 54. When I spoke to Branik a while back, they quoted me $500 to EDM side gears to a bigger spline size.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That is my understanding. The carrier journals are smaller on a Dana 44, but the outer Race diameter is the same between a Dana 44 and a Dana 50, and the Dana 50 ring gear fits on a Dana 44 carrier, hence the Jana 54. When I spoke to Branik a while back, they quoted me $500 to EDM side gears to a bigger spline size.

Cool.

I don't care about splines in this case. I care about finding some sort of limited slip or locker carrier in 3.73 down, which should be relatively easy considering how many people wind up crossing the carrier split as they go from stock gears to deeper gears for big tires.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Got to cutting the D50 beam today. Had to take 1.5" out to make the 3rd to ball joint distance match a D44.

Now I'm waiting for it to cool enough for me to handle it without welding gloves so I can disk around slicing and dicing the pivot end.