Trump's chances of winning? Down to the wire, you're Chic Anderson - make the call.

[Ugly pumpkin]

Hows the support for Gretchen?

What support?

 

[Sandy Johnson]

no but it does align with what I see with my own eyes. Huge enthusiasm/ crowds for Trump and practically no excitement for Joe. Considering we know the polls are bullshit it’s just a question of why there is such a huge voter turnout? My money is on people coming out to vote for Trump way more than people coming out to vote against Trump because no one gives a flying fuck on voting for Biden.

I think the nature of Trump is you either love him or hate him. No middle ground. When you look at his rallies, and see people tailgating before, and throwing parades and what not, it's like people cheering for their favorite sports team or going to a rock concert. I can't remember another political candidate that ever had that.

On the other side, there's lots of people who dislike him, but they don't necessarily like Biden. There's no pride in voting Biden in, because, let's be honest, he's nothing special. So those people who dislike Trump aren't going to put up Biden posters or have a Biden party. Instead, they're just going quietly vote for him because they want someone different in.

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

no but it does align with what I see with my own eyes. Huge enthusiasm/ crowds for Trump and practically no excitement for Joe. Considering we know the polls are bullshit it’s just a question of why there is such a huge voter turnout? My money is on people coming out to vote for Trump way more than people coming out to vote against Trump because no one gives a flying fuck on voting for Biden.

It could also mean there's a lot of kool-aid drinkers on one side and a bunch of grumbling "anyone but that asshole" voters on the other who aren't flying flags or taking part in attention whore convoys. Hopefully we'll find out in a week or so without another 2000 shitshow.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

It could also mean there's a lot of kool-aid drinkers on one side and a bunch of grumbling "anyone but that asshole" voters on the other who aren't flying flags or taking part in attention whore convoys. Hopefully we'll find out in a week or so without another 2000 shitshow.

Damn. I aspire to such brevity .

 

[bobbywalter]

To ACTUALLY vote potato.. .. damn.


​​​​​​

 

[evernoob]

I think the nature of Trump is you either love him or hate him. No middle ground. When you look at his rallies, and see people tailgating before, and throwing parades and what not, it's like people cheering for their favorite sports team or going to a rock concert. I can't remember another political candidate that ever had that.

*blocks your path*

On the other side, there's lots of people who dislike him, but they don't necessarily like Biden. There's no pride in voting Biden in, because, let's be honest, he's nothing special. So those people who dislike Trump aren't going to put up Biden posters or have a Biden party. Instead, they're just going quietly vote for him because they want someone different in.

What you Lefties continually misunderstand is that liberal Whites do not want to vote for a goddamn Socialist, lol.

 

[evernoob]

Not flying the trump flag so I'm a total flaming liberal OK bucky

Go take your meds.

You're an extreme Lefty. Stop trying to move the window as if you're reasonable. You might as well go before the House Un-American Activities Committee.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

*blocks your path*

What you Lefties continually misunderstand is that liberal Whites do not want to vote for a goddamn Socialist, lol.

I was probably too young to remember Regan parties. I know my dad supported him, but never talked about him the same way I see people raving about Trump now.


Biden is far from a socialist. Remember way back when on the other forum and you guys told me there's no way Biden would get the nomination because the democratic party was too far extreme left and I said we'll see?

 

[Provience]

I was probably too young to remember Regan parties. I know my dad supported him, but never talked about him the same way I see people raving about Trump now.


Biden is far from a socialist. Remember way back when on the other forum and you guys told me there's no way Biden would get the nomination because the democratic party was too far extreme left and I said we'll see?

biden, the man, is not a socialist and was the most name recognizable centrist of the 20 man heard.

biden, the politician, is unprincipled to the extreme and will (already is) be ran over completely by the extremes in his party. Kamala Harris has the MOST left voting record in the Senate, that's his running mate. Pelosi has already started up 25th amd unfit for service paperwork for him. His conciliations on "the biden not green new deal" are massively socialist, i don't think he is at all aware what is in that shit.


edit: bernie sanders is actively being talked about as getting a cabinet position and ro'beto' o'rouke' was long ago promised the gun czar job. it's insane.

 

[evernoob]

I was probably too young to remember Regan parties. I know my dad supported him, but never talked about him the same way I see people raving about Trump now.


Biden is far from a socialist. Remember way back when on the other forum and you guys told me there's no way Biden would get the nomination because the democratic party was too far extreme left and I said we'll see?

2nd part: I was jumping straight to Bernie. People aren't excited about Biden but at least he's not a rich Jew from New York with that Jewish New York Socialist accent. I mean it's considered anti-Semitic to say it, but the same people who are not going to vote for Bernie "Leon Trotsky" Sanders would also reasonably vote for Joe "Orthodox Jew" Lieberman. So it's not anti-Semitism. At one point, there was serious talk about a McCain/Lieberman ticket. I might have voted for them, I liked old Joe (Lieberman).

1st part: Conservativism in the '80s was a traditional 1950's style conservativism, couched in the Yuppieness of the 1980s where suits became a thing and Tom Clancy was Orthodoxy. And not as many rallies of course, and none of them televised, and no internet.

But this just means that when buttoned-down crowds did respond to Ronnie in wild adulation, it was that much more significant. This was probably because we had just come off a solid decade of Baby Killer! and a military that was undefended fiscally or culturally. (check out the film The Last Detail once to see the doldrums, or Stripes for that matter).

Reagan won in a TRUE landslide, twice, and it was him that moved the working class to the Republican Party and Conservativism, which is now being completed worldwide. You could not overstate Reagan's influence, and that drives Liberals absolutely fucking wild haha.

Now Trump is charismatic, but Reagan... was something else. And the fact that he represented that straight-laced, staid, powerful, masculine conservativism, couched in that fatherly and sincere charisma... it was truly magic. Honestly I think he was the most charismatic President since... well FDR. Republicans don't like to say, but FDR had that kind of pull. Sometimes I imagine him speaking during the dark days of the Depression and WWII. Not a Lefty, of course, but FDR was something else. A remarkable man.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

biden, the man, is not a socialist and was the most name recognizable centrist of the 20 man heard.

biden, the politician, is unprincipled to the extreme and will (already is) be ran over completely by the extremes in his party. Kamala Harris has the MOST left voting record in the Senate, that's his running mate. Pelosi has already started up 25th amd unfit for service paperwork for him. His conciliations on "the biden not green new deal" are massively socialist, i don't think he is at all aware what is in that shit.


edit: bernie sanders is actively being talked about as getting a cabinet position and ro'beto' o'rouke' was long ago promised the gun czar job. it's insane.

Eh. I guess we'll see when he gets in office, but I don't see any radical left policies being implemented. If the democratic party is smart, they will realize any success they get from this election is by being more centrist than extreme.

A lot of what you're sharing above sounds like doom/gloom scare tactics or downright conspiracy theory to me. "Already started up the 25th amendment paperwork for him." Yeah, that's not reality.

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

You're an extreme Lefty. Stop trying to move the window as if you're reasonable. You might as well go before the House Un-American Activities Committee.

Yes, believing in liberty for all is such a leftist ideal. I'll instead vote for the guy who added nearly as much debt in 4 years as his predecessor did in eight, because that's real conservatism.

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

Reagan won in a TRUE landslide, twice, and it was him that moved the working class to the Republican Party and Conservativism, which is now being completed worldwide. You could not overstate Reagan's influence, and that drives Liberals absolutely fucking wild haha.

He sure did, but Trumps empty and undelivered (really, undeliverable) promises to the working class are doing a pretty good job of pushing those same voters left.

Sure the DOW was higher, which is great for wall street investors, but that doesn't mean dick for main street.

 

[ev13wt]

Lol, more emotional bullshit from our resident emotionally cucked bitch.

I miss yer love today. Could you please?

 

[Provience]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-socialism/

No socialists are running for president on a major-party ticket in 2020. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, the Democratic Party's nominees for president and vice president, are not socialists. They are not members of the current socialist party, called Socialist Party USA, or of the nation's biggest socialist organization, the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which has about 70,000 members nationwide.

Asked what he'd say to people who were worried about socialism, Biden told Wisconsin station WLUK-TV: "I beat the socialists. That's how I got elected. That's how I got the nomination. Do I look like a socialist? Look at my career, my whole career. I am not a socialist."

even biden thinks many of the Dem's are socialists, though CBS likes to split the hair that they aren't members of the Socialist Party USA

For Jabari Brisport, a New York teacher and state senate candidate, "What [socialism] means is that energy, housing, health care, education, finance, and transportation ... shall be controlled publicly and not run by, for profit motive."

so, every good conversation starts with a definition of terms, as socialism can mean everything from what official socialists think it means, to what other non socialists think it means (either favorable or unfavorable)

Today, the most prominent of America's socialists are very different from the Marxists of the past. They largely push for progressive reforms within capitalism — a philosophy generally defined as social democracy.

The Democratic Socialists of America aims to blend socialism-inspired reforms with America's current free-enterprise system. The DSA does not believe private enterprise should be immediately overthrown in favor of a government-run economy. Instead, Ocasio-Cortez, for example, has pushed for a "revolution of working people at the ballot box" — new laws and stronger unions to make private businesses more accountable to what DSA members see as public interests.

Bernie Sanders, meanwhile, has advocated for universal free health care, canceling all student debt, and expanding Social Security benefits within America's free-market economy.

and it is that Immediate vs Eventual shift that will NEVER work out well. never has, never will, there is not yet visible a time where capitalism is so failed that it must be replaced and cannot self-correct.

Some of America's most popular policies have been linked with socialism since their inception, whether the label was earned or not. When Social Security was first proposed by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the midst of the Great Depression, a suspicious senator asked the secretary of labor whether it counted as socialism. When told it did not, the senator responded, "Isn't this a teeny-weeny bit of socialism?"

American entrepreneurs have also taken advantage of programs that could be interpreted as socialism-lite.

Donald Trump's father, Fred, got his start building Depression-era homes for New York families with the help of the Federal Housing Administration. The FHA insures home mortgages made by private lenders — essentially bringing some control over America's finances under the power of its people, via the federal government. Later, Fred Trump turned to the FHA again, building agency-backed housing for military families. Donald Trump later inherited his father's fortune, built in part by these projects.

hey, hey, look at that! Donald Trump, the most hated capitalist in the world, would never have had any family money if it were not for the socialist programs of the 1930's....yup ain't socialism grand [the trumps would likely still be well off today]

 

[Provience]

Eh. I guess we'll see when he gets in office, but I don't see any radical left policies being implemented. If the democratic party is smart, they will realize any success they get from this election is by being more centrist than extreme.

A lot of what you're sharing above sounds like doom/gloom scare tactics or downright conspiracy theory to me. "Already started up the 25th amendment paperwork for him." Yeah, that's not reality.

I would LOVE to see the D party realize that centrism is valid. There was a Union Tribune from New Hampshire (?) that was on the realclearpolitics daily list the other day, it's headline was "We support Joe Biden*" and the Asterisk was "joe biden is the clear leader we need for unity, but we must send him with a strong republican backstop in the house and senate of congress. any blue wave is likely to usher in significant legislative and economic damage"





edit: source for the pelosi comment

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...about-president-trump-pelosi-insists-n1026971

“This is not about President Trump. He will face the judgment of the voters,” Pelosi said, .... “But he shows the need for us to create a process for future presidents.”

“Throughout America’s history, our leaders have created and strengthened guardrails in the Constitution to ensure stability and continuity of government in times of crisis. The 25th Amendment creates a path for preserving stability if a president suffers a crippling physical or mental problem and is ‘unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office,'” Pelosi explained.

the article was the first that popped up, so it is highly biased in it's writing, but the above is direct pelosi quotes

 

[Provience]

Yes, believing in liberty for all is such a leftist ideal. I'll instead vote for the guy who added nearly as much debt in 4 years as his predecessor did in eight, because that's real conservatism.

so your idea of liberty is solely debt focused? What is bidens plan for debt reduction?

 

[jpmassey]

I would LOVE to see the D party realize that centrism is valid. There was a Union Tribune from New Hampshire (?) that was on the realclearpolitics daily list the other day, it's headline was "We support Joe Biden*" and the Asterisk was "joe biden is the clear leader we need for unity, but we must send him with a strong republican backstop in the house and senate of congress. any blue wave is likely to usher in significant legislative and economic damage"

That's a very odd logic. Vote for the candidate you like, with full knowledge they are going to destroy the country. 'We'd rather look at Joe the next 4 years, but we don't want him to do anything'. What dumbasses.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

so, every good conversation starts with a definition of terms, as socialism can mean everything from what official socialists think it means, to what other non socialists think it means (either favorable or unfavorable)

Quality post. I think you nailed it that what most political conversations need is a definition of terms. Trump isn't a fascist, Biden isn't a socialist, and anyone using that hyperbole to describe them should be looked at skeptically as someone trying to push an agenda with fear.

And yes, there are people leaning toward actual socialism in the democratic party, and they need to go.

 

[evernoob]

He sure did, but Trumps empty and undelivered (really, undeliverable) promises to the working class are doing a pretty good job of pushing those same voters left.

Sure the DOW was higher, which is great for wall street investors, but that doesn't mean dick for main street.

Nah, the Stock Market has a direct impact on Main street. The fact you said that is yet another betrayal of your extreme Leftiness.

 

[Provience]

That's a very odd logic. Vote for the candidate you like, with full knowledge they are going to destroy the country. 'We'd rather look at Joe the next 4 years, but we don't want him to do anything'. What dumbasses.

i'd love to be able to see the reasoning in a union rag, but yeah

i'm all for voting for a grid locked government, but dayum. I guess they figure the current gridlock has resulted in massive waste for impeachment and other general obstruction, that they think the future gridlock will be more respectable, as the GOP seems to have some weird sort of moral high ground in that arena

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

so your idea of liberty is solely debt focused? What is bidens plan for debt reduction?

No, my idea of liberty is based on civil liberties. If you don't like something, be a fucking adult and don't do it instead of crying "muh religious freedom" or "it might save one baby" and trying to pass laws to force people to behave the way you want them to. Trump fails pretty badly on that, as does Joe.

As for debt? Joe (well, his handlers) ain't got time for that, unless they try to pull a Clinton and take claim for a balanced budget scheme. (which politically speaking could be a pretty smart move)

 

[Sandy Johnson]

That's a very odd logic. Vote for the candidate you like, with full knowledge they are going to destroy the country. 'We'd rather look at Joe the next 4 years, but we don't want him to do anything'. What dumbasses.

It isn't though. The unsaid part of that argument is "we feel what Trump has done is so bad that we'd rather a President who does nothing than him for the next 4 years." Not so dumbass when you look at it that way.

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

Nah, the Stock Market has a direct impact on Main street. The fact you said that is yet another betrayal of your extreme Leftiness.

That roaring DOW sure brought a shitton of manufacturing jobs back didn't it?

 

[Provience]

Quality post. I think you nailed it that what most political conversations need is a definition of terms. Trump isn't a fascist, Biden isn't a socialist, and anyone using that hyperbole to describe them should be looked at skeptically as someone trying to push an agenda with fear.

And yes, there are people leaning toward actual socialism in the democratic party, and they need to go.

absolutely they need to go. that is what makes the biden harris ticket so tough, you've got joe who wants to be not a socialist coupled with harris, who wants (voting record says is) to be one. I don't think joe is strong enough in his principles to hold back the wave, similar fashion to how GWB was not the best containment of Cheney, whereas trump has actually seemed to be a benefit to Pence.

the far left, with their "silence is violence" and "unconcious bias" and "anti racism" are actively trying to either fully envelope the main D party to their side or split it in two. It must be resisted by actual Democrats who want to see a return to "benevolent capitalism", or whatever the lie the party of segregation and slavery tells themselves they are in this modern day

 

[evernoob]

httpSome of America's most popular ...1web-toner.html"]teeny-weeny bit of socialism?"

American entrepreneurs have also taken advantage of programs that could be interpreted as socialism-lite.

Donald Trump's father, Fred, got his start building Depression-era homes for New York families with the help of the Federal Housing Administration. The FHA insures home mortgages made by private lenders — essentially bringing some control over America's finances under the power of its people, via the federal government. Later, Fred Trump turned to the FHA again, building agency-backed housing for military families. Donald Trump later inherited his father's fortune, built in part by these projects.


hey, hey, look at that! Donald Trump, the most hated capitalist in the world, would never have had any family money if it were not for the socialist programs of the 1930's....yup ain't socialism grand [the trumps would likely still be well off today]

^^ that whole argument that a basic welfare State is Socialism is THE most retarded nonsense that the Left constantly spews.

The first real social safety net in Industrial society was provided by German barons like Krupp and Thyssen. It was NOT Socialism... lol.

The people spewing that it is are counting on historical ignorance.

SS and Medicare/ade is basically the 1% understanding that there needs to be basic care for the citizenry, that this dampens business cycles which benefits them as well, and also, a sincere Altruism.

What Bernie and other Socialists/Communists propose is NOT merely progress from Social Security. They are NOT the same thing in conception or execution, they do not spring from the same well.

Goddamn I hate Leftists because of that and so many other lies and mistruths. So fucking dishonest, they know it too.

 

[Provience]

No, my idea of liberty is based on civil liberties. If you don't like something, be a fucking adult and don't do it instead of crying "muh religious freedom" or "it might save one baby" and trying to pass laws to force people to behave the way you want them to. Trump fails pretty badly on that, as does Joe.

As for debt? Joe (well, his handlers) ain't got time for that, unless they try to pull a Clinton and take claim for a balanced budget scheme. (which politically speaking could be a pretty smart move)

alright, you said you cared about liberty and then cited the debt as your only point.

Trump doesn't cry about religion (is he even religious outside of a photo op?) and he certainly hasn't championed federal anti-abortion laws. I'd be curious if you could try again to paint him as the more anti individual liberty candidate. 3rd times a charm

 

[Provience]

That roaring DOW sure brought a shitton of manufacturing jobs back didn't it?

GDP up 33% or so for the 3rd quarter pretty well counts as a shitton. Lock it back down Joe has said he would do everything in his power to make policies like those in WA state federal, regardless if your state is covid down or up

 

[Provience]

^^ that whole argument that a basic welfare State is Socialism is THE most retarded nonsense that the Left constantly spews.

The first real social safety net in Industrial society was provided by German barons like Krupp and Thyssen. It was NOT Socialism... lol.

The people spewing that it is are counting on historical ignorance.

SS and Medicare/ade is basically the 1% understanding that there needs to be basic care for the citizenry, that this dampens business cycles which benefits them as well, and also, a sincere Altruism.

What Bernie and other Socialists/Communists propose is NOT merely progress from Social Security. They are NOT the same thing in conception or execution, they do not spring from the same well.

Goddamn I hate Leftists because of that and so many other lies and mistruths. So fucking dishonest, they know it too.

I'll disagree with you that it is not a sincere altruism simply because it is a forced tax collected and administered by the government.

If it were something like a "bill gates foundation fund" managed privately (alfred nobel prize fund esq) and paid as a "congrats on making it to 80 years old!" that would be altruism, of course others could fund it, etc. whatever.

if it were a company pension system or even a portable union pension system as was much more common prior to the full embrace of SS, it would be considered a compensatory factor and would still have less appeal of socialism, simply because, while still appearing as a monthly check loss same as a tax, it would rely on volunteerism from both sides to engage in the system and cooperation. Sure, violent union riots can be argued as akin to federal tax police, but i don't think they are as strong a force as "the government"

 

[TheFlyingDildocupine]

alright, you said you cared about liberty and then cited the debt as your only point.

Trump doesn't cry about religion (is he even religious outside of a photo op?) and he certainly hasn't championed federal anti-abortion laws. I'd be curious if you could try again to paint him as the more anti individual liberty candidate. 3rd times a charm

Let's see, there's the Geneva Consensus Declaration working to ban abortions worldwide because jeebus says so. (also harping on overturning roe v wade to protect good christians from the urge to have an abortion)
Banning muslims from entering the country because of their religion and nothing else.
Bump stock ban.
The evangelical payback of "teh transgenders are ruining our military" thing a few years ago.
Signing the FISA bill (the NSA mass surveillance of all of us bill)
Then there's this list which is mostly fluff but there are a few solid nuggets in there https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/