Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean

[MuntCuffin]

Notice I listed critical parts: CF wheels and CF chassis.
Brake calipers and discs would also be in the critical list (just thought of them).

Engine plenums and body panels are not as critical; safety-wise.

Without a chassis, the engine is just a black of aluminum. Would the average supermarket owner pay a Ferrari shop to swap chassis or unload it and get a new one?

 

[dwygrsshpr]

Curiosity got the better of me. Here are LinkedIn links to some of the inspirational and fun OceanGate employees:

Software Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerome-ray-santos-668804108/​

​

Customer Focus and Enrichment Manager (WTF is that?): https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-craftsman-76725b173/​

​

Director of Logistics and Quality Assurance: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-griffith-4b578a26/​

​

Operations (might be a 50 YO white guy): https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougvirnig/​

​

Director of Administration (office wonk?)(follows Trudeau and SPANX): https://www.linkedin.com/in/amber-bay-5380a17/​

​

Electrical Engineer Intern (read his 'About' - LOL): https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlos-rosas-932a1745/​

​

Marketing Strategist (previously ran her own cookie company): https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-gilbert-journalist/​

No venture captal firm would invest in an outfit that lacks key employees with a proven track record of domain success. So who was funding this outfit, anyway?

If I had anything to do with this outfit I would be scouring the entire web to delete any association, post, or comment that may connect me with OceanGate. In fact, I would have done it on Monday. Can't hide from the discovery lawyers, but can at least minimize/delete the public footprint.

It would not surprise me if there are post-tragedy suicides from people associated with this org due to crushing pressure (lol) of dealing with the aftermath.


ETA - good discussion on CF, material CoE, time-ex, material usage, etc. Good tech and accurate. I have an awesome collection of Mil-Spec tie-wraps that were end-of-life and it was cheaper to buy new vs testing tensile strengths. Can't test every one, so how many do you have to test to assure the whole lot is still in spec? You can knock-down the rating, but that doesn't help when you need the original....

 

[XtremeJ]

It has taken composite tech 60 plus years in aerospace, 45 plus years in Motorsports, 30 plus years in ocean racing to get to our current level of understanding and design. With many fatal accidents along the way.

Composite submarine tech is very new at least in the civilian field. This fellow was just being a pioneer, at least in his mind, sadly to the detriment of the paying, yet naive (?) Patrons.

I bet the horse and buggy lobby claimed motor cars were unsafe. Look at the death machines the Wright brothers gave us. Heck we all hate cyclists and look how dangerous those are.

Bunch of freedom hating, don’t let anyone tell me what to do Nazis in here.

 

[CDA 455 II]

You are confusing a completed part with raw carbon material.

Yeah; Donk clarified that for me.

The only airframe that I am aware of that never had a lifespan limit in hours or cycles was the original DC3 Gooneybird.

Ah; interesting.🤔🍺
What part of the fuselage was non-metal?

I have used carbon twill in the past that was more than a decade old, correctly stored and admittedly not used for a prototype destined for 12k feet.

 

[Slander]

So if CF has a usable shelf life- all cars with CF components become essentially useless after ten or so years?

That's a broad statement, it depends what it is designed to, and like XtremeJ pointed at cycles is more important than physical time. There are other aircraft besides the DC3 with no cycle limit on the hull, I think it's some of the falcon series of biz jets. But aluminum also has a cycle limit like CF. It all matters what the components are mfr to when it comes to cycle times.

 

[plym49.2]

All this talk about cycle times. Can't you all keep n mind that people died on a science experiment of a deep-sea submersible? Or are you going to keep going on and on about racing your motorsickles?

 

[CDA 455 II]

Without a chassis, the engine is just a black of aluminum. Would the average supermarket owner pay a Ferrari shop to swap chassis or unload it and get a new one?

Former Formula One cars sit in an air conditioned garage and are rarely driven.

 

[CDA 455 II]

All this talk about cycle times. Can't you all keep n mind that people died on a science experiment of a deep-sea submersible? Or are you going to keep going on and on about racing your motorsickles?

New here; brah?!


The fact we stayed on related topics is a miracle itself.

 

[Slander]

All this talk about cycle times. Can't you all keep n mind that people died on a science experiment of a deep-sea submersible? Or are you going to keep going on and on about racing your motorsickles?

Man it's almost like we are on a technical forum with a bunch of people interested in technical shit and not at a prayer vigil for the people who died.

 

[Provience]

All this talk about cycle times. Can't you all keep n mind that people died on a science experiment of a deep-sea submersible? Or are you going to keep going on and on about racing your motorsickles?

Of course people died in a science experiment, that's what science is

 

[XtremeJ]

The general consensus in the cycling community for indirect expiration date on CF frames and forks was 10 years from date of production.

Meaning; unless a brand new CF frame and fork was kept in a cave at 60* with no light for 10 years, it was no longer deemed safe to ride/use.

The reason that the cycling community were a bunch of pussies was because it took more than a decade for the designers to understand how to use composites correctly. You were not simply replacing a steel or aluminum tube frame with carbon tube, but they tried. You were not simply replacing steels forks in carbon, yet they tried. You cannot use carbon in the same manner as steel and expect the best results yet they tried.

And to top it off, you had a bunch of hacks whose experience was fixing surfboards who thought they could carbon fiber. And then cyclists were stunned when this lead to parts failing. Fuck waiting 10 years brand new parts. Not to mention retard cyclists themselves. Tighten a clamp or stem beyond tech and then bitch when the (badly designed, poorly fabricated, never tested, well marketed piece of shit fails and blame the technology. Fucking cycling pussies.

Full disclosure - the company I consulted for pretty much designed and built the original Lotus composite bike that shattered the 60 mins record. Boardman may have been the rider.

Actually your point is made
This submarine dude has obviously been using the cycling industry method of early materials adoption and technology implementation. With predictable results.

 

[aczlan]

Donk and plym49.2 here is an industry article discussing the building of the first CF tube: Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters

Aaron Z

 

[XtremeJ]

So if CF has a usable shelf life- all cars with CF components become essentially useless after ten or so years?

You are also confusing
Raw materials - shelf life
and
Completed components - lifespan usually determined by cycles, use, hours or combination of

So a nice carbon 2/2 twill weave MIGHT time ex in 10 years, or pre preg time ex in 6 months
but don’t worry
That (likely fake) carbon license plate holder is never going to time ex. Now the poorly made carbon intake tube to hold that sweet K&N likely does have a life cycle but we all know that WRX motor will smoke it’s head gasket and puke the coolant long before then

In the racing business parts are time expired all the time, either time or mileage..carbon parts are usually designed to meet and exceed the metal part they are replacing so replacement schedules tend to stay the same.

For road going cars with structural or load bearing parts I would imagine their lifespan exceeds the expected life span of the car.

 

[CDA 455 II]

The reason that the cycling community were a bunch of pussies was because it took more than a decade for the designers to understand how to use composites correctly. You were not simply replacing a steel or aluminum tube frame with carbon tube, but they tried. You were not simply replacing steels forks in carbon, yet they tried. You cannot use carbon in the same manner as steel and expect the best results yet they tried.

And to top it off, you had a bunch of hacks whose experience was fixing surfboards who thought they could carbon fiber. And then cyclists were stunned when this lead to parts failing. Fuck waiting 10 years brand new parts. Not to mention retard cyclists themselves. Tighten a clamp or stem beyond tech and then bitch when the (badly designed, poorly fabricated, never tested, well marketed piece of shit fails and blame the technology. Fucking cycling pussies.

I'm a Clydesdale; I weigh over 200lbs.
Reducing weight on race bikes was/is a dangerous obsession.
Frames were so fragile; fuck descending in the Pyrenees at 60+MPH on one of those!

Full disclosure - the company I consulted for pretty much designed and built the original Lotus composite bike that shattered the 60 mins record. Boardman may have been the rider.

Actually your point is made
This submarine dude has obviously been using the cycling industry method of early materials adoption and technology implementation. With predictable results.

That's some cool shit!
And then they banned the bike/design.
"...Frame must be of traditional triangle design.."

Trivia:
Greg LeMond used a CF frame (a first) when he raced and won the '89 UCI Mens Road World Championship:

 

[dwygrsshpr]

So one thing that was not mentioned in the discussion about composites is that there is very little difference between yield strength and ultimate strength such that in practice they are essentially identical and planned accordingly. Metals technology has been understood for centuries and behaves very linearly. Composites, when fabricated perfectly, also behave very predictably when designed and loaded according to the ply-up and resin matrix. The annoying part is that whole "fabricated perfectly" nit.

From a motorsports perspective, you can drive/steer with a bent tie-rod but not with one that shattered....

Further is the combination/complication of composites with interfaces. If you want to bolt through a lay-up, the easiest practice is to co-laminate a piece of metal in the matrix. i.e. you want a thru-hole, you embed a fender washer. You want to bolt/nut, you embed a solid washer. Note, use rounds, or squares with heavily radiused corners. Edges and anything with a corner is a stress riser and will knife right through the ply-up

 

[gt1guy]

It looks pretty standard from what I've seen of winding pressure vessels in the past.

Another thing to consider is that for aircraft in particular weight is an issue so the processes used for their composite structures are going to be the best available to achieve the perfect resin to cloth ratio and minimise fabrication defects to prevent the need for over engineering to achieve their required safety factor. An item that's not weight limited like a boat or in this case a sub could be over engineered to make up from inferior processes but I'd argue that in the case of these ultra DSVs that construction and engineering standards should be well proven and of the highest quality available.

The problem is that all the other DSV subs are being built using spheres made from titanium or carbon steel. The guy who thought he was smarter than everyone else had no proven engineering standards.....to not follow. He didn't even follow what could be considered an engineering standard of using the sphere shape.

So this guy was fully free thinking. I think the desire to pack a sub full of paying victims clouded his thinking.

Have to admit that there are carbon wrapped gun barrels that handle way more pressure. There are also composite HP tanks that can hold 6k psi. None of those are the diameter that he built though and the pressure is on the other side.

What's the over under there are remains under what's left of the carbon fiber?

Where did that pic come from?

 

[Ditchdigger]

You are also confusing
Raw materials - shelf life
and
Completed components - lifespan usually determined by cycles, use, hours or combination of

So a nice carbon 2/2 twill weave MIGHT time ex in 10 years, or pre preg time ex in 6 months
but don’t worry
That (likely fake) carbon license plate holder is never going to time ex. Now the poorly made carbon intake tube to hold that sweet K&N likely does have a life cycle but we all know that WRX motor will smoke it’s head gasket and puke the coolant long before then

In the racing business parts are time expired all the time, either time or mileage..carbon parts are usually designed to meet and exceed the metal part they are replacing so replacement schedules tend to stay the same.

For road going cars with structural or load bearing parts I would imagine their lifespan exceeds the expected life span of the car.

But the CF shifter is connected to the transmission, will I blow a tranny if it does time out?

 

[Gregj50!!!!!]

I've got all sorts of time-ex consumables in the shed that have been scrapped at work but are still perfectly good.

So when are you starting on the
Titan ll
Build????
Make sure and put up a thread in here!!!!!

 

[CDA 455 II]

Where did that pic come from?

I think that's a Titanic ship wreckage debris.

A boot and dress coat, I think.

 

[dwygrsshpr]

<snip>
... and the pressure is on the other side.
<snip>

That's the crux. Carbon and other fibers like vectran, kevlar, dyneema, spectra, M5*, are superior in tensile applications. Compression applications, not-so-much

*M5 is still very experimental and dyneema/spectra are subject to creep at higher temps and cyclic loading. Okay for ropes, cables, and shit, but pretty sucky at compression. We are working on ropes that you can push against in the inter-galactic physics lab, but just aren't quite there yet...

 

[Donk]

Donk and plym49.2 here is an industry article discussing the building of the first CF tube: Composite submersibles: Under pressure in deep, deep waters

Aaron Z

A couple of thoughts about that.
Just because your safety factor is 2.25 doesn't mean you escape the flexibility of materials.
The way I see it you have a fairly long tube supported only at the ends, apply a lot of pressure (5000+psi) and that tube is going to try crush in the middle. Even if that deflection is only a few thousands of an inch it'll stress those end joints which as we saw were only butt joints. That bending of the tube would apply a peel type stress to that butt join, if the adhesive is flexible enough it would soak up that flex, if it's not then that adhesive would slowly crack.

 

[gt1guy]

I think that's a Titanic ship wreckage debris.

A boot and dress coat, I think.

I though I saw what looked like boobs. Guess I locked up on it.

I fully expect the pictures of wreckage to start "surfacing" soon.

 

[Donk]

So when are you starting on the
Titan ll
Build????
Make sure and put up a thread in here!!!!!

I'll add it to the queue behind my Ferrari based drifter and 4400 rig

 

[CDA 455 II]

I'll add it to the queue behind my Ferrari based drifter and 4400 rig

 

[Yota Up]

Curiosity got the better of me. Here are LinkedIn links to some of the inspirational and fun OceanGate employees:

Software Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerome-ray-santos-668804108/​

​

Customer Focus and Enrichment Manager (WTF is that?): https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-craftsman-76725b173/​

​

Director of Logistics and Quality Assurance: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-griffith-4b578a26/​

​

Operations (might be a 50 YO white guy): https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougvirnig/​

​

Director of Administration (office wonk?)(follows Trudeau and SPANX): https://www.linkedin.com/in/amber-bay-5380a17/​

​

Electrical Engineer Intern (read his 'About' - LOL): https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlos-rosas-932a1745/​

​

Marketing Strategist (previously ran her own cookie company): https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-gilbert-journalist/​

No venture captal firm would invest in an outfit that lacks key employees with a proven track record of domain success. So who was funding this outfit, anyway?

Could you copy paste some of the notable parts for those without a sign in?

 

[1oddtech]

It came across my news feed as one of two photos of the debris field

 

[plym49.2]

The problem is that all the other DSV subs are being built using spheres made from titanium or carbon steel. The guy who thought he was smarter than everyone else had no proven engineering standards.....to not follow. He didn't even follow what could be considered an engineering standard of using the sphere shape.

So this guy was fully free thinking. I think the desire to pack a sub full of paying victims clouded his thinking.

Have to admit that there are carbon wrapped gun barrels that handle way more pressure. There are also composite HP tanks that can hold 6k psi. None of those are the diameter that he built though and the pressure is on the other side.




Where did that pic come from?

That is key. CF is stronger int tension than compression.

 

[grumpy356]

 

[plym49.2]

Could you copy paste some of the notable parts for those without a sign in?

Sure; here's one:

I love this one - she be woke, too, baby:

 

[plym49.2]

Another one. This might be the guy that wrote some or all of the code:

He might be a fresh-out-of-school software developer with no real-world exerience, but he sure got hisself a good head start on his ESG score.