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Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean

Rooney77 said:
A PE will never just rubber stamp something. It's their ass if it fails. That's the point.
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Of course it's not a rubber stamp but if they loaded their organization full of "diverse" rookies something is bound to slip through eventually....

Rooney77 said:
And a PE may be a chief engineer but that doesn't make them a manager. Your assumptions do not align in any way shape or form to the real world experience I've seen.
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Fucking engineers. You guys are as bad as lawyers:shaking:

My statement about the PE also being a manager was just my assumption about how they structured their company since it's a small company.

Plenty of companies have some dickbag of a PE who doesn't have reports. Plenty of companies have the non-PEs reporting to the dickbag.

Rooney77 said:
New engineers don't fling shit at a wall,
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They are new. They don't know what they're flinging is in fact shit.
Rooney77 said:
Not to mention, no company would hand a decision to a brand new engineer that put life and limb on the line. The liability alone would keep that from happening.
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A lot of decisions have life on the line when you're talking about diving tens of thousands of feet. New engineers gotta wind up making some of them whether they know it or not. :laughing:
 
Roc Doc said:
Are you seeing more women applicants? My nephew's girlfriend (at the time), was an Engineering major at Purdue, and she said there were more women than men in the Engineering programs.
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My company hires interns into a fast track program. It’s a total disaster and about 80% leave for another company after the 2 years is up and they have some experience.

my friend is an engineer and said that in the last batch of 25 engineering interns, 24 were women. He was pissed knowing that the general makeup of engineering schools means they were chosen because they had a vagina. He said there probably wasn’t 24 women in the whole engineering dept at the school he graduated from.
 
dwygrsshpr said:
If you want to get really sexy, the profile of the carbon tie rods have aerodynamic profiles to help with down force at each corner. In other words - they aint just tubes.
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Now THAT'S engineering!
 
Rooney77 said:
It reeks of shitty engineers trying to bypass the safety standards they were taught.

That's not a fresh out of school trait. That's a lazy fucktard trait.
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Maybe for engineers like you or most of us here. But not for the majority that are just good at homework and have never built or repaired something credible with their own two hands. You also think the college profs are that good? Most are not. And in any case, they need to be under the wing of someone who is, likely, a 50+ YO man who has already earned his bones.
 
WLDWUN said:
not saying they did it right but there clearly is an inner and outer lip on the Titanium ring.
this is the underside and there is a ~2 inch lip there.

1687648593605.png
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I think he was referring to the mating surface of the ring to the hemisphere. That 2 inch or so lip is the glue surface to the CF tube.
 
Rooney77 said:
Well I regularly hire new engineers straight out of school, so I have a fairly good idea of what their traits are. 99% of straight out of school engineers are too scared and unsure to make a call that significant. And given that lives were at stake, I'd be surprised if they didn't have a PE sign off on their designs. No one leaves school with their PE stamp...no one.

Even if they didn't have a PE sign off, the whole thing reeks of experienced engineers sick of the red tape and trying to find loop holes or corners to cut.

The safety standards I refer to are the margin of safety you are taught to design into everything. For instance, if the target depth is 12k feet you design for 18k feet. Engineering 101.
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But OceanGate did not have a 'you' on staff. They only had an underwater buff of a CEO.

Hey, aren't you around 50? White? Well, female though. :flipoff2:
 
This guy filmed his experience on the boat and he actually got into the sub for a “test run”.

Fast forward to the 21 minute mark if you don’t want to see his vlog, the WTH ship and other stuff.

Note the fasteners when they close the sub up.

 
Bacho said:
There’s quite lot of detail missing from that filament winding process. Normally a pressure vessel would have varying degrees of strand orientation. As noted the carbon needs to be loaded in tensile.

This is a long video, but it shows a pressure tank being wound. Skip to 2:10 to see the difference.

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Would that be the alternating unidirectional fabrics and carbon fiber/epoxy that the article I linked to was discussing?
1687666037503.png

grumpy356 said:
Then someone forgot to carry a 1 because it didn’t.


(And a game controller didn’t have shit to do with it.)
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Exactly, the initial one was specced for 4000M with a 2.25 safety factor at 4.5" thick, but they bumped it to 5" thick per the article I linked to earlier.
4000M deep is ~5800PSI, multiply by their 2.25 safety factor and you get 13050PSI for the design failure pressure.
IF that scales linearly, 5" of CF would give them a design failure pressure of 14500PSI, that would give them a "rated" pressure of 6444 PSI or about 14880 feet deep

ndtguy said:
Fast forward to the 21 minute mark if you don’t want to see his vlog, the WTH ship and other stuff.

Note the fasteners when they close the sub up.

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At 13:44 they are talking about the motor controllers having a problem "it was not consistently communicating, it worked a lot, then ti stopped wanting to talk"
The sealing surface of the hatch:
1687666641790.png

Hatch being sealed:
1687666818951.png


Aaron Z
 
ndtguy said:
This guy filmed his experience on the boat and he actually got into the sub for a “test run”.

Fast forward to the 21 minute mark if you don’t want to see his vlog, the WTH ship and other stuff.

Note the fasteners when they close the sub up.
Click to expand...


In all honesty , the fasteners they used really don't matter. It's a o-ring seal. And at the dept they were going to, no matter how tight you hit the bolts up to, they'd get loose when you got to depth. You can see the o-ring in the dome as they close it.

What we couldn't see is the important part of that setup......the hinges. They have to hold that heavy dome and bring it in perfectly flush when closed.

Hey, at least the sealing surfaces were clean.:flipoff2:
 
I don't see any qualified mechanical engineers in their linkedin lists. When you haven't even got ME there's no opening for PE. The "quality assurance" guy was business school grad.

Carbon fibre sucks in compression and even with autoclaving has voids all through it. Without autoclaving it's millions of bubbles and holes. Under ~5,500psi those holes will be a network of leaks.

You might get up and down once, but those holes will be full of salt-water that is squirting from one void to the next and impossible to dry out. Every time it does that you've got a network of leaks. That is on top of all the other issues with lay-up, direction, carbon only being good in tension etc.

That is why you build subs out of homgeneous materials. Like steel and titanium. Because they don't have built-in leak paths and delaminations.
 
Yota Up said:
Old scaffolding poles?

This guy must be the biggest cheapskate of a billionaire ever.
_nc_ohc=Cf0J-0ftrHsAX9OpDY2&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.jpg
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Not that this thing isn't made up entirely of questionable choices but the scaffolding as ballast makes perfect sense as it's whole purpose is to get left on the sea floor after the dive. It's literally just a dead weight to be jettisoned as needed and in not way structural to the boat.
 
Mikenike said:
Not that this thing isn't made up entirely of questionable choices but the scaffolding as ballast makes perfect sense as it's whole purpose is to get left on the sea floor after the dive. It's literally just a dead weight to be jettisoned as needed and in not way structural to the boat.
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And it's easy to trim to match occupancy weight by adding or removing a few.


Aaron Z
 
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Dougal said:
I don't see any qualified mechanical engineers in their linkedin lists. When you haven't even got ME there's no opening for PE. The "quality assurance" guy was business school grad.

Carbon fibre sucks in compression and even with autoclaving has voids all through it. Without autoclaving it's millions of bubbles and holes. Under ~5,500psi those holes will be a network of leaks.

You might get up and down once, but those holes will be full of salt-water that is squirting from one void to the next and impossible to dry out. Every time it does that you've got a network of leaks. That is on top of all the other issues with lay-up, direction, carbon only being good in tension etc.

That is why you build subs out of homgeneous materials. Like steel and titanium. Because they don't have built-in leak paths and delaminations.
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Good explanation!
 
Rooney77 said:
I am not. I'm still surprised by how few female applicants we get. And given who I work for, that's a bit surprising.
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Void_of_Light said:
My company hires interns into a fast track program. It’s a total disaster and about 80% leave for another company after the 2 years is up and they have some experience.

my friend is an engineer and said that in the last batch of 25 engineering interns, 24 were women. He was pissed knowing that the general makeup of engineering schools means they were chosen because they had a vagina. He said there probably wasn’t 24 women in the whole engineering dept at the school he graduated from.
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Lindsey was a Freshman when she made that statement, so maybe they're washing out before graduation, or going for an MRS degree. I'm sure there's some bias on being accepted into a program, but since it's engineering, the pass / fail line should be pretty clear.

There are some industries that just don't have any women in them. Female live sound engineers are super rare, as in I only worked with 2 or 3 over a 25 year period. There's no reason they can't do the job, there are fine female musicians, good female network engineers, etc., but they just don't make it in the touring world, (maybe they get tired of everyone on the bus trying to get into their pants all the time).
 
plym49.2 said:
But OceanGate did not have a 'you' on staff. They only had an underwater buff of a CEO.

Hey, aren't you around 50? White? Well, female though. :flipoff2:
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I'm 45. Let's not add any years we don't need to.

😀
Roc Doc said:
Lindsey was a Freshman when she made that statement, so maybe they're washing out before graduation, or going for an MRS degree. I'm sure there's some bias on being accepted into a program, but since it's engineering, the pass / fail line should be pretty clear.

There are some industries that just don't have any women in them. Female live sound engineers are super rare, as in I only worked with 2 or 3 over a 25 year period. There's no reason they can't do the job, there are fine female musicians, good female network engineers, etc., but they just don't make it in the touring world, (maybe they get tired of everyone on the bus trying to get into their pants all the time).
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Overall I've seen more women in the field over the last 15 yrs or so but I'm talking going from 1 to 3.

All the resumes I see are dudes. Could be the field I'm in (boom sticks). I know my employer would love to check some boxes by hiring more womens.
 
Based on my family's experience I'm going to bet most of the engineers were 1099'd hired guns. Bring in what you can get for a vehicle build and you're not stuck with guys with $150k+ salaries afterwards.

At the end of day it would be interesting to know why it failed. Was it design, manufacturing, handling, operation? Even being an iffy design it had made a few trips previously so it's not like the design couldn't work. Lots of speculation based on.the now dead hypemans bullshit and the people who they can find to condemn it. Not much from people who put pen to paper on the design.
 
Rooney77 said:
I'm 45. Let's not add any years we don't need to.

😀

Overall I've seen more women in the field over the last 15 yrs or so but I'm talking going from 1 to 3.

All the resumes I see are dudes. Could be the field I'm in (boom sticks). I know my employer would love to check some boxes by hiring more womens.
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One of my distributors is "Proudly Woman Owned". Yeah, I've yet to see a woman working in any of the 7 branches I cover. It's such a sham.
 
Roc Doc said:
One of my distributors is "Proudly Woman Owned". Yeah, I've yet to see a woman working in any of the 7 branches I cover. It's such a sham.
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There are a lot of grants available for “women/minority owned businesses.”

Start a lawn care company, wife is 51% owner, you are 49% owner. Get free $ to buy all the equipment. She emails invoices every month, you hire 4 dudes to do all the work and you end up spending all your time dealing with the business.

I believe they also have priority on a certain amount of .gov contracts.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
There are a lot of grants available for “women/minority owned businesses.”

Start a lawn care company, wife is 51% owner, you are 49% owner. Get free $ to buy all the equipment. She emails invoices every month, you hire 4 dudes to do all the work and you end up spending all your time dealing with the business.

I believe they also have priority on a certain amount of .gov contracts.
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I see it all the time. Even multiple things claims.

This is from a local place,
”IS A SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION (SBA) 8(A) PARTICIPANT, A DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION-DISADVANTAGED BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (DBE), SMALL BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (SBE), CALIFORNIA UNIFIED CERTIFICATION PROGRAM-MINORITY BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (CUCP) (MBE), NATIONAL MINORITY SUPPLIER DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL-MINORITY BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (NMSDC) (MBE), A SMALL BUSINESS FOR PUBLIC WORKS ENTERPRISE (SB-PW), SMALL MICRO BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (SB-MICRO), A SAN DIEGO EMERGING LOCAL BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (ELBE)/ A SAN DIEGO SMALL LOCAL BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (SLBE) AND A HISPANIC AMERICAN BUSINESS ENTERPRISE (HABE)”
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
There are a lot of grants available for “women/minority owned businesses.”

Start a lawn care company, wife is 51% owner, you are 49% owner. Get free $ to buy all the equipment. She emails invoices every month, you hire 4 dudes to do all the work and you end up spending all your time dealing with the business.

I believe they also have priority on a certain amount of .gov contracts.
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A local business owner I know decided he wanted to branch out into .gov contracts and put the new wing of his company in his daughter's name to give him an advantage in contract negotiations.
Minority owned, female business, all the key words even though she is basically just his secretary.
 
Purevil71 said:
A local business owner I know decided he wanted to branch out into .gov contracts and put the new wing of his company in his daughter's name to give him an advantage in contract negotiations.
Minority owned, female business, all the key words even though she is basically just his secretary.
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my friends business is like that. His mom is the "owner" She goes to the christmas party every year and that is it.
 
ndtguy said:
This guy filmed his experience on the boat and he actually got into the sub for a “test run”.

Fast forward to the 21 minute mark if you don’t want to see his vlog, the WTH ship and other stuff.

Note the fasteners when they close the sub up.

Click to expand...

nope
just on the fact that they didn't know what the basic hand signals topside
after that
nope, nope, and nope
 
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