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Russia / Ukraine thread

Sandy Johnson said:
Fair point. I revise my statement to "most of Europe." China and Russia have been buddies since the USSR because communism.

BRICS wants to see the US's standing in the world weakend and the dollar go away as the default trading currency of the world.
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The Chicoms and the USSR hated each other more than they hated America since the 60s.

And now the only thing they have in common is that they are not on Team America. Do you think Putin trusts the Chinese one bit?
 
Mikel said:
The Chicoms and the USSR hated each other more than they hated America since the 60s.

And now the only thing they have in common is that they are not on Team America. Do you think Putin trusts the Chinese one bit?
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And they share a land border and have fought each other before.
 
Beat95yj said:
I have known a bunch of Ukrainian soldiers. They have done rehab at my gym in California and my gym actually opened a location in Kiev before the war. They hate Russians with a passion and would accept death before being a part of Russia.

Even the ones in wheelchairs are still willing to fight
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Then why are they here instead of over there fighting?
 
Yota Up said:
Then why are they here instead of over there fighting?
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They are no longer here. They used to come here before a facility was opened in Ukraine. But I’ve still met about 20 former soldiers and their wives. I have also met people that attend the local Ukrainian church because they were in charge of bringing these people over for therapy.
 
This thread would be hilarious with posters actually writing (paraphrasing for clarity) 'other than their nuclear arsenal what threat do the russians actually pose'

Or discussing (kind of) the corruption of Ukraine and being silent on the corruption issues that Russia and ALL the former satellites have.

One of my brothers did business with the 'old' (Brezhnev era through Gorbachev) The entire business dealt with massive corruption at all levels. Later, after the USSR broke up, he dealt with many of the former satellite countries... they are all like rappers 'gettin they bag' in whatever way they can. Corruption and organized crime from those places has been exported to cities like Sacramento and it is mind blowing how complete the corruption machine is.

Ukraine elected a comedian president. Let that sink in for a minute. If the west (usa) has been using the war to weaken Putin and deplete Russian military resources, that is probably pretty good international brinksmanship. The challenge is that a weakened Russia still has probably the second most powerful nuclear threat, which makes it important that how weak they are or can become has to be moderated too.
 
Splib said:
I cant think of this happening . .. . . when was that ? The Vietnamese fought Chynah but I cant recall the Soviet Union doing so.
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en.wikipedia.org

Sino-Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It went well beyond border disputes. After Khrushchev denounced Stalin, Mao thought the USSR had betrayed socialism and it quickly escalated from there into their own Cold War.
 
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Sandy Johnson said:
I'm conflicted on this one. I hate how much money is getting dumped in, but I'd also rather Russia not control Ukraine.
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pax americana, post-soviet russia

I see less meaningful distinction in their colonial efforts as I learn more about the nature of nation-states in general
 
[486] said:
same lie every war gets started on

"they need freedom there, we gotta liberate them from this mortal plane for their own good"
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Seriously. How many times have we pulled that bullshit? If you're in a country and we come offering freedom and democracy, you better realize you're about to get the shit bombed out of you because that's what's about to happen
 
I think it is hilarious any of you think anyone is winning this. We are losing because they are robbing us blind to pay for it. The ukranians are losing because they cant keep it up forever and at the end of the day russia has significantly more population so eventually the stalin tactic of throwing people at the enemy will win out through sheer attrition. The russians are losing because while they probably will win eventually they are losing signifigant military assets and equipment so bad they have started buying it from the pinnacle of reliable military tech.... The north koreans.:laughing:

Plus this whole "special military operation" was supposed to take two weeks. It has been two years. Even when they win they will be the laughing stock lesson of overconfidence in military operations for a very long time. Honestly the best outcome is putin and zelensky challenge each other to a duel and we nuke the meeting spot.
 
Mikenike said:
I think it is hilarious any of you think anyone is winning this. We are losing because they are robbing us blind to pay for it. The ukranians are losing because they cant keep it up forever and at the end of the day russia has significantly more population so eventually the stalin tactic of throwing people at the enemy will win out through sheer attrition. The russians are losing because while they probably will win eventually they are losing signifigant military assets and equipment so bad they have started buying it from the pinnacle of reliable military tech.... The north koreans.:laughing:

Plus this whole "special military operation" was supposed to take two weeks. It has been two years. Even when they win they will be the laughing stock lesson of overconfidence in military operations for a very long time. Honestly the best outcome is putin and zelensky challenge each other to a duel and we nuke the meeting spot.
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Summed up very nicely.
 
gladman said:
Ukraine elected a comedian president. Let that sink in for a minute.
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And the US has elected actors and reality show hosts :lmao:

I'm amazed any of you can support Russia in this. Not long ago anyone doing that would've been labelled a commie and put on a watchlist.

Ukraine may not be perfect, but Russia destabilising the region is much, much worse.
 
elbekko said:
And the US has elected actors and reality show hosts :lmao:

I'm amazed any of you can support Russia in this. Not long ago anyone doing that would've been labelled a commie and put on a watchlist.

Ukraine may not be perfect, but Russia destabilising the region is much, much worse.
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I don't think anybody is supporting Russia.

The wild part about your statement, Ukraine and nato are as or more communist than Russia today.

Is Russia destabilizing the region worse than the US destabilizing the region?

I guess I'm mostly just against false notions of stability
 
Mikenike said:
I think it is hilarious any of you think anyone is winning this. We are losing because they are robbing us blind to pay for it. The ukranians are losing because they cant keep it up forever and at the end of the day russia has significantly more population so eventually the stalin tactic of throwing people at the enemy will win out through sheer attrition. The russians are losing because while they probably will win eventually they are losing signifigant military assets and equipment so bad they have started buying it from the pinnacle of reliable military tech.... The north koreans.:laughing:

Plus this whole "special military operation" was supposed to take two weeks. It has been two years. Even when they win they will be the laughing stock lesson of overconfidence in military operations for a very long time. Honestly the best outcome is putin and zelensky challenge each other to a duel and we nuke the meeting spot.
Click to expand...

if Ukraine holds and Russia withdraws eventually, the US and the west win. BIg. For relatively little money (when you look at our military budget that goes to mitigating Russian threat, funding Ukraine has been chump change) we have depleted Russia's stores, depleted their will to fight, created unrest in Russia, Putin's kick ass strongman bullshit reputation has been tattered, and they have been so busy with that, they have not been fucking around as much in other places. So, big win for the west for cheap. even if Ukraine finally 'loses' the west wins.

For the Ukrainians, they get to keep their country. They aren't Crimea. In their neighborhood they are badasses and held off the red hoard. Win for them too. If they finally get full Nato status, they have access to shit tons of western monies and will be set. Zelensky will be a national hero and folks will dig that. Lots of win there.

The russians pretty much lose in this thing no matter what. If there is win for them it is in further fracturing US internal support for Ukraine. We have typically propped up shitty regimes in previous wars, so, Ukraine being corrupt is a nonstarter, and no big deal.

The nuclear arsenal is the thing we should go after next. We need to keep the pressure on until Putin is gone and find a way to diminish their arsenal so they are just one of many countries striving to improve and not run, the world.

Then we can tackle the chinese and help them implode. That is the only way (and historically the way) that they always fall. We can help them while bolstering our own economy. As Japan withers and ages out, we can help China implode.
 
gladman said:
if Ukraine holds and Russia withdraws eventually, the US and the west win. BIg. For relatively little money (when you look at our military budget that goes to mitigating Russian threat, funding Ukraine has been chump change) we have depleted Russia's stores, depleted their will to fight, created unrest in Russia, Putin's kick ass strongman bullshit reputation has been tattered, and they have been so busy with that, they have not been fucking around as much in other places. So, big win for the west for cheap. even if Ukraine finally 'loses' the west wins.

For the Ukrainians, they get to keep their country. They aren't Crimea. In their neighborhood they are badasses and held off the red hoard. Win for them too. If they finally get full Nato status, they have access to shit tons of western monies and will be set. Zelensky will be a national hero and folks will dig that. Lots of win there.

The russians pretty much lose in this thing no matter what. If there is win for them it is in further fracturing US internal support for Ukraine. We have typically propped up shitty regimes in previous wars, so, Ukraine being corrupt is a nonstarter, and no big deal.

The nuclear arsenal is the thing we should go after next. We need to keep the pressure on until Putin is gone and find a way to diminish their arsenal so they are just one of many countries striving to improve and not run, the world.

Then we can tackle the chinese and help them implode. That is the only way (and historically the way) that they always fall. We can help them while bolstering our own economy. As Japan withers and ages out, we can help China implode.
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Chump change? :laughing: go run the numbers, compare what a decade of war in 2 countries cost us for iraq/Afghanistan and compare that to what we are spending in UK :flipoff2:

China is liable to implode the USA. Sure, we give them shit for 1 child and forced abortions, but those commie fucks have convinced a generation of kids that sterilization is hip here in the US
 
Mikel said:
en.wikipedia.org

Sino-Soviet border conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It went well beyond border disputes. After Khrushchev denounced Stalin, Mao thought the USSR had betrayed socialism and it quickly escalated from there into their own Cold War.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that. It is clear to me that we never had media exposure to this, hardly any at all. The source of their conflict was century old lines drawn on a map.

I posted earlier that the November election may well end the ukraine conflict.
 
elbekko said:
And the US has elected actors and reality show hosts :lmao:

I'm amazed any of you can support Russia in this. Not long ago anyone doing that would've been labelled a commie and put on a watchlist.

Ukraine may not be perfect, but Russia destabilising the region is much, much worse.Y
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You realize I agree with you, right?

Subtlety is lost in this morass of posts... if they elected a comedian, they must be serious about change.

The US elected the actor when they felt desperate and the game show host when the real xenophobia hit and the fear that white power would be lost... so, desperation.

So, clearly, the Ukrainians feared that unless they picked 'other' they'd be subsumed.

Anyone who supports Russia is a traitor in my eyes. Even the Russians think that.
 
Mikenike said:
I think it is hilarious any of you think anyone is winning this. We are losing because they are robbing us blind to pay for it. The ukranians are losing because they cant keep it up forever and at the end of the day russia has significantly more population so eventually the stalin tactic of throwing people at the enemy will win out through sheer attrition. The russians are losing because while they probably will win eventually they are losing signifigant military assets and equipment so bad they have started buying it from the pinnacle of reliable military tech.... The north koreans.:laughing:

Plus this whole "special military operation" was supposed to take two weeks. It has been two years. Even when they win they will be the laughing stock lesson of overconfidence in military operations for a very long time. Honestly the best outcome is putin and zelensky challenge each other to a duel and we nuke the meeting spot.
Click to expand...
"We" are only losing if you're talking about actual run of the mill Americans like us and 99%+ of Americans. The political class and MIC and bilking dump trucks of wealth off of this. They're winning big time and they're the ones actually in control. Our opinions and votes don't mean shit at the end of the day and that's just the sad reality.
 
The mango messiah is a force that goes far far beyond his short dally into the entertainment world that was at his discretion and for his amusement. Hardly a game show host as the source of his enormous chi. Submit now and kow tow.

:flipoff2:

Chy-nah and Japan are not in any danger of "imploding" that is more fanciful than the fascination and distraction of the game show host. :lmao:
 
elbekko said:
I'm amazed any of you can support Russia in this. Not long ago anyone doing that would've been labelled a commie and put on a watchlist.
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Yeah, and looking back there's nearly unanimous agreement that McCarthyism was an absolute stain on American history.

We saw a brief return of it for a short period during the height of the Ukraine white washing and gas lighting.

I don't understand how anyone can truly support Russia in this but I also don't understand how anyone can support us using Ukrainians as cannon fodder in our proxy war with Russia that we absolutely instigated.
 
east_beast said:
Yeah, and looking back there's nearly unanimous agreement that McCarthyism was an absolute stain on American history.
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Idk, in some ways he was right.

It would seem the the government is full of tyrannical commies, faggots, and morally bankrupt toadies.

Society at large kinda is, too....but the worst of society is definitely WAY over represented in the .gov.

Like the shoplifting bald tranny that became an erased memory.
 
MuntCuffin said:
Idk, in some ways he was right.

It would seem the the government is full of tyrannical commies, faggots, and morally bankrupt toadies.

Society at large kinda is, too....but the worst of society is definitely WAY over represented in the .gov.

Like the shoplifting bald tranny that became an erased memory.
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Ironic how many "freedom supporters" get exposed for being very anti speech they don't like. :laughing:
 
Splib said:
The mango messiah is a force that goes far far beyond his short dally into the entertainment world that was at his discretion and for his amusement. Hardly a game show host as the source of his enormous chi. Submit now and kow tow.

:flipoff2:

Chy-nah and Japan are not in any danger of "imploding" that is more fanciful than the fascination and distraction of the game show host. :lmao:
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the japanese birth rate and the long history of china imploding would beg to differ..
 
Provience said:
Chump change? :laughing: go run the numbers, compare what a decade of war in 2 countries cost us for iraq/Afghanistan and compare that to what we are spending in UK :flipoff2:

China is liable to implode the USA. Sure, we give them shit for 1 child and forced abortions, but those commie fucks have convinced a generation of kids that sterilization is hip here in the US
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we averaged spending about 140 billion a year to fight in Iraq (and we had to use our own guys)

In 3 years letting Ukraine fight their own war and deplete one of our chief enemies it has cost about 110 billion.

We get a lot more geo political bang for our buck from Ukraine war than fucking around in Iraq and Afghanistan.... 33 billion a year is chump change compared to the cost of running a cold war and all the rest that we have to do combat the Russians. I feel no shame in funding the Ukrainian people in their fight with their enemy... and I'm glad no US soldiers are lost there.

China won't implode because of birthrate, they will run out of seats in the middle class and will have their usual uprising and chaos. Tick tock. Coming for sure.

Japan with low birthrate and the aging of the remaining citizenry will have to import folks (they already are doing this) to run the country... the result is predictable based on who is being imported.

We have plenty of time to deal with the folks who have wandered (and been given permission) toward fascism and reactionary stuff... it will resolve itself.
 
gladman said:
the japanese birth rate and the long history of china imploding would beg to differ..
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The stabilized Japanese birth rate means nothing. It's been that way for generations. It was an overcrowded Island when Ghengis Khan tried to move in. You left out that Virtually every country in Europe has a negative birth rate. The long history of China is incomprehensible to us. And you. The current China is the best it has ever been for its citizens. It is not imploding other than in wishful fanciful western negative media. You will be buying a Chinese electric car within the next decade and liking it. :flipoff2:
 
so...

how about that socialist ponzi scheme healthcare and retirement reducing the utility of having a cohesive family
how about them child labor laws reducing the utility of having children
how about that compulsory state run education turning impressionable minds into drones
 
[486] said:
so...

how about that socialist ponzi scheme healthcare and retirement reducing the utility of having a cohesive family
how about them child labor laws reducing the utility of having children
how about that compulsory state run education turning impressionable minds into drones
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pretty much everyone I know, and definitely the people here, see themselves as independent, critical thinkers. Many see them selves as learned in history, politics and economics. What percent are the product of the public schools.

I know folks will say they learned all of it from Mark Levin or something and not the commie teachers they had in public school, but, most public schools state, as a core goal, to create life long learners... so, they would do a victory lap for creating people who had to go find out for themselves.

Our family (extended) has endured. Not sure what that is all about. We took care of parents and grandparents until they passed. My mom is still living on her own (on balboa island) but she has visits everyday from kids, grandkids, great grandkids... that is pretty common for everyone I know. One of my friends has his parents living with them and his kids and that is fine. His mom is close to passing, but they are all there.

Again, all common for my friend group, so not sure which boogie man we are slaying here.

The incentive to have children that are wanted. Going back to producing field hands is not a step back we should consider. UNLESS we like being field hand and we like simple toil. I have never minded work and my kids don't, but we want the economic and work freedom that we don't do repetitive mundane tasks that grind your body down.
 
Splib said:
The stabilized Japanese birth rate means nothing. It's been that way for generations. It was an overcrowded Island when Ghengis Khan tried to move in. You left out that Virtually every country in Europe has a negative birth rate. The long history of China is incomprehensible to us. And you. The current China is the best it has ever been for its citizens. It is not imploding other than in wishful fanciful western negative media. You will be buying a Chinese electric car within the next decade and liking it. :flipoff2:
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we shall see. Either way, you have identified the inexorable boogie man, so, enjoy the 'fear bath'.

I'd agree that China has a middle class of some size for the first time.... I do not expect that to last very long... although I hope, for their sake, it does.
 
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