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Russia / Ukraine thread

east_beast said:
Hell, they had a deal in place early on that pretty much just boiled down to Ukraine not joining NATO then we sent out stooge Boris Johnson over there to squash it and rev Ukraine up to fight pledging unwavering support. We talked the skinny nerd into thinking he could take on the big bully in a fight we knew they couldn't win but we wanted entertainment.
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You're the same cynic I am.

It's always about money, for the US. Russia was ready to call "bullshit". And they have done it in SPADES.

And a bunch of in field intel was gathered.

The Uks were the patsies. For BOTH sides.
 
Splib said:
Well, the Russian army tried to drive there down the highway. :confused:
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Terrible logistics and crappy equipment means they didn't move. The Russia cheerleaders have said it was all a grand strategy. Never seen that before- lead with a whimper rather than going in strong.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
You guys forget their initial goal was Kiev or something?

Has Putin accomplished his goals? Are the Nazis gone? Has Ukraine been "demilitarized" yet? How many men have they lost? How much equipment?
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Their initial goal has always been supporting thr breakaway regions.

That's why they invoked UN articles before crossing over
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Terrible logistics and crappy equipment means they didn't move. The Russia cheerleaders have said it was all a grand strategy. Never seen that before- lead with a whimper rather than going in strong.
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I'm far from a Russian cheerleader but go on a look at some maps of the lines over time
 
east_beast said:
I said early on that we'll fight Russia in Ukraine as long as there's living Ukrainians willing or being forced to fight. This has absolutely fuck all to do with Ukraine and/or Ukrainians. They're just being used as our cannon fodder in a proxy war. Sucks for them. The flag wavers are fucking retarded.
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I have known a bunch of Ukrainian soldiers. They have done rehab at my gym in California and my gym actually opened a location in Kiev before the war. They hate Russians with a passion and would accept death before being a part of Russia.

Even the ones in wheelchairs are still willing to fight
 
Ebs said:
I'm not sure what the Russian goal for victory looks like, keep it going long enough to hammer out a treaty and have Ukraine not join Nato?

I have to imagine this would look much different if Russia's goal was full scale invasion and occupation.
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Putin stated goals are to return all the lands that were lost from the USSR. He thinks the breakup was the largest crime of the century.
 
Provience said:
I'm far from a Russian cheerleader but go on a look at some maps of the lines over time
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I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that Russia would lose. I have always said that their military is too much of a shit show to do well. The war with Ukraine exposed this. There is no way their master plan was to lose as many men, ships, helicopters, tanks, and other equipment as they have. There is no way they wanted to still be in a fight with Ukraine 2 years later.

They're grinding away against a 3rd rate military that's getting hand-me-downs from NATO and losing half of their money and material to corruption. It should have been a decisive invasion that's over quickly, and they botched it.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that Russia would lose. I have always said that their military is too much of a shit show to do well. The war with Ukraine exposed this. There is no way their master plan was to lose as many men, ships, helicopters, tanks, and other equipment as they have. There is no way they wanted to still be in a fight with Ukraine 2 years later.

They're grinding away against a 3rd rate military that's getting hand-me-downs from NATO and losing half of their money and material to corruption. It should have been a decisive invasion that's over quickly, and they botched it.
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I agree, it would have been much less expensive and much less deadly if NATO had stayed within NATO lines and not set a bunch of individual contracts of support
 
Beat95yj said:
Putin stated goals are to return all the lands that were lost from the USSR. He thinks the breakup was the largest crime of the century.
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No. Not even close.

Sorry Bro, you're full of shit. Go listen again.
 
Provience said:
I agree, it would have been much less expensive and much less deadly if NATO had stayed within NATO lines and not set a bunch of individual contracts of support
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I'm conflicted on this one. I hate how much money is getting dumped in, but I'd also rather Russia not control Ukraine.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that Russia would lose. I have always said that their military is too much of a shit show to do well. The war with Ukraine exposed this. There is no way their master plan was to lose as many men, ships, helicopters, tanks, and other equipment as they have. There is no way they wanted to still be in a fight with Ukraine 2 years later.

They're grinding away against a 3rd rate military that's getting hand-me-downs from NATO and losing half of their money and material to corruption. It should have been a decisive invasion that's over quickly, and they botched it.
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Oh wait, like Syria (where they embarrassed the US on the World stage while "fighting the insurgents", US said, "hey those are our guys! Woops!"

Or how they watched the US lose BILLIONS in Afghanistan (not the 80s one), the 10 year fucking loss of lives for what again?

Like that is what you mean?

You have an idealized western mindset without ANY real information. Been two years of you in this thread without a fucking clue.

When do you put your tools down when you realize you can't use them?
 
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Icono said:
No. Not even close.

Sorry Bro, you're full of shit. Go listen again.
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go watch a Putin interview. Any of them. He says it in all of them.

10sec on google-

“The breakdown of USSR is the greatest tragedy of the century.”Mar 25, 2022

Shit loads more on Google
 
Beat95yj said:
Putin stated goals are to return all the lands that were lost from the USSR. He thinks the breakup was the largest crime of the century.
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It's not about goals, it's about abilities. Russia is struggling in Ukraine. I mean, I could state that I have the goal to unseat Amazon as the leading online market but that doesn't mean that I have the ability to do it.
 
east_beast said:
It's not about goals, it's about abilities. Russia is struggling in Ukraine. I mean, I could state that I have the goal to unseat Amazon as the leading online market but that doesn't mean that I have the ability to do it.
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I would agree with that, but Putin wants to be a strong man of Russia, like the ones in the past. If he had a chance to reunify the USSR, he would sacrifice many of his citizens to do so.
 
Icono said:
Oh wait, like Syria (where they embarrassed the US on the World stage while "fighting the insurgents", US said, "hey those are our guys! Woops!"

Or how they watched the US lose BILLIONS in Afghanistan (not the 80s one), the 10 year fucking loss of lives for what again?

Like that is what you mean?

You have an idealized western mindset without ANY real information. Been two years of you in this thread without a fucking clue.

When do you put your tools down when you realize you can't use them?
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Why are we comparing The US against Russia again? Hell yeah I have an idealized Western mindset, I love Western culture because I live here. Meanwhile, you accuse me of not having a clue while you don't actually have understanding of the strategic importance of Ukraine or why anyone is even fighting over it.
 
Provience said:
Even Ukrainians know it's been a shit show for a long time....
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The soldiers that I know agree that their politicians suck. But they feel that Russia is worse. They’re sort of free in Ukraine.

If you take away their FIFA and beer life will end
 
Beat95yj said:
I would agree with that, but Putin wants to be a strong man of Russia, like the ones in the past. If he had a chance to reunify the USSR, he would sacrifice many of his citizens to do so.
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It's kinda like being a Islamic theocratic woman hater in the Middle East. It's just their thing. Not my monkeys, not my circus.
 
Beat95yj said:
go watch a Putin interview. Any of them. He says it in all of them.

10sec on google-

“The breakdown of USSR is the greatest tragedy of the century.”Mar 25, 2022

Shit loads more on Google
Click to expand...


I have watched them all over the last 18 YEARS. Apparently, we heard different things, especially before the "invasion".
 
Beat95yj said:
The soldiers that I know agree that their politicians suck. But they feel that Russia is worse. They’re sort of free in Ukraine.

If you take away their FIFA and beer life will end
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Massive corruption in Ukraine, coupled with an inept government gives more freedom than a semi functional corrupt government. Absolutely agree, I'm not saying Russia is good and ukrain is bad, I'm saying both are bad and Ukraine isn't an idealized government even to their own citizens eyes.

That's no reason for them to not fight Russia, but it also makes sense why they are more inclined to accept any of the earlier peace treaties
 
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