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Russia / Ukraine thread

Mikel said:
I will sooner buy that a 400 lb person doesn't have a history of over-eating than a nation that occupies 1/6 of the world's land area does not have a compulsive tendency to invade its neighbors.
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Russian invaded another country, just to increase its sizable territory. Got it.

Case closed. Lets definitely interfere.
 
Harry Johnson said:
Between Russia taking Crimea and Russia invading Ukraine, pro-Russian separatists have been fighting with Ukraine in Donetsk and Luhansk after they held their own independence referendums and the Ukrainian government said no. Part of that was the Ukrainian government shelling the separatists.
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Or the separatists firing on Ukranian forces from the middle of civilian areas and the Ukraine forces returning fire.

A friend who spent a couple years over in Donetsk before all this went down (2012-2013ish) said that most people were fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian to the point where they would be typing up a document in Ukrainian and switch to Russian mid sentence and neither the writer, or the person who reviewed it would notice it.

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
Or the separatists firing on Ukranian forces from the middle of civilian areas and the Ukraine forces returning fire.

A friend who spent a couple years over in Donetsk before all this went down (2012-2013ish) said that most people were fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian to the point where they would be typing up a document in Ukrainian and switch to Russian mid sentence and neither the writer, or the person who reviewed it would notice it.

Aaron Z
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In self-defense because the Azov et al. were killing, raping and taking their stuff?

:idea:
 
Icono said:
In self-defense because the Azov et al. were killing, raping and taking their stuff?

:idea:
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Depends on who you talk to, some say that, others say that the separatists were worse than the Ukrainians (say the Gypsies who were driven out by the separatists from where they had lived for generations with not much more than the clothes on their backs)

Aaron Z
 
clodhopper said:
Which one? California? Sure. Let em go. No problem.






:flipoff2:
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I started to use California as an example with Mexico helping them and the realized how that would go here.
delete-button.gif
 
TRINDU said:
INot like russia woke up one day and said,"fuck Ukraine, that's mine now".

It's been a complex situation for decades and the 'west' needs to fuck off.
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So where do you stand on the Budapest Memorandum?

Fawk UKR, we were just kidding?
 
TRINDU said:
heres billions of dollars to not have nukes

Let me know when UKR needs to use nuclear weapons.
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Would Russian tanks be roaming all over Ukraine today had she retained her nukes?
 
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TRINDU said:
heres billions of dollars to not have nukes

Let me know when UKR needs to use nuclear weapons.
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Huh?

The entire use of nuclear weapons' by every nation that has them (well other than us, and that was just twice:flipoff2:) is deterrence.

When another richer and larger country wants your land, the threat of hundreds of nuclear ICBMs raining down on their land if they try to take it is a lot more cost effective than building a conventional force that can oppose them.

So we were supposed to be their deterrence. We proved in '14 we would not use nuclear force to deter Russia from invading UKR. In lieu of that, should we provide arms and money at least? Or should we say, just kidding, can't believe you feel for that?

I mean Russia did, they claim they didn't make that agreement with this UKR .gov.

Regardless of reasonableness of Russia invading or the Nazi'ness of Azov asking for it, there is this other issue that seems like we all gave up on post '14.
 
I've heard it mentioned that Russia doesn't really have an off ramp for deescalating. This is their hail Mary against western encroachment. They have a shrinking population with a bleak future. Am I crazy to think that US/NATO has plans to overthrow Russia, or install new puppet leaders? If it escalates causing US to go balls deep why not take the whole country...ya know...for freedom and stuff?
 
Our dicks were so hard for a proxy war for Russia we put zero thought into it. Our Intel was so bad we had zero clue their military was utterly inept. Then Ukraine started doing well and our dicks got super hard. It never crossed our minds what might happen if a nuclear superpower might do if they were getting their asses kicked in a land war on their own border over territory they (wrongfully or not) felt was rightfully theirs. Everything about how we've approached this had been reckless as fuck with zero thought since the get go.

Take a poll in this country. How many folks are willing to kickoff WW3 AND virtually certain nuclear apocalypse to defend the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine? No-fucking-body.
 
Icono said:
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That's it? 2 little billion? Those are rookies numbers. What have we spent now, 70-80 billion?
I'd like to see how much each country gave, just to see if anyone out there is giving anything what we are.
Also would show how much total UKR got. This is the biggest Gofundme scam on a national level ever.
 
Mikel said:
Would Russian tanks be roaming all over Ukraine today had she retained her nukes?
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Yes.

Or do you think Ukraine wouldve tossed a nuke and hoped that they weren't then wiped off the earth in relation?

You think Zelenskyy, or the rest if the regime, would be getting rich otherwise?

For the record, I hope both sides would somehow lose and we come out smelling like a rose. Instead we're knee deep in the shit.
 
TxNTrK said:
I've heard it mentioned that Russia doesn't really have an off ramp for deescalating. This is their hail Mary against western encroachment. They have a shrinking population with a bleak future. Am I crazy to think that US/NATO has plans to overthrow Russia, or install new puppet leaders? If it escalates causing US to go balls deep why not take the whole country...ya know...for freedom and stuff?
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The problem is that when faced with annihilation the nuclear option looks rational.

Then it only comes down to if there is enough loyalists to carry out the order.
 
Scott Cee aka 2drx4 said:
Then it only comes down to if there is enough loyalists to carry out the order.
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That's kind of my point. Won't our proxy war get us there? Can CIA collapse from within? Or does last man standing Putin say fuckitimout with a bang? I'm over whose fault it is. Just trying to get a picture of where it goes. But I'm just a dumb mechanic that gets all his news from chitchat.
 
east_beast said:
Take a poll in this country. How many folks are willing to kickoff WW3 AND virtually certain nuclear apocalypse to defend the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine? No-fucking-body.
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there were a couple pollsters showing results of something like 20% of respondents were in favor of US involvement in the war even if it went nuclear
this was only like 2mo into the propaganda campaign, though
so it might be even worse
 
TRINDU said:
Yes.

Or do you think Ukraine wouldve tossed a nuke and hoped that they weren't then wiped off the earth in relation?

You think Zelenskyy, or the rest if the regime, would be getting rich otherwise?

For the record, I hope both sides would somehow lose and we come out smelling like a rose. Instead we're knee deep in the shit.
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Well they were lobbing shells at their own Nuke plant if I remember. Nazis aren’t that smart.
 
Harry Johnson said:
I wonder how we would handle that here. What if one of our states suddenly voted to secede from the union and wrote up their own declaration of independence? Should we just let them go? If we don't, should other countries get to support them in their efforts?
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Should have already happened.

All 30+ attorney generals from the states that signed on to sue over the fake election should have seceded. I'd be living in one of them for 100% certain. They would be the true US under the original constitution while the others can embrace China and liberal/commie ways.
 
Yota Up said:
Should have already happened.

All 30+ attorney generals from the states that signed on to sue over the fake election should have seceded. I'd be living in one of them for 100% certain. They would be the true US under the original constitution while the others can embrace China and liberal/commie ways.
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I probably would have moved 1 state over.
 
Yota Up said:
That's it? 2 little billion? Those are rookies numbers. What have we spent now, 70-80 billion?
I'd like to see how much each country gave, just to see if anyone out there is giving anything what we are.
Also would show how much total UKR got. This is the biggest Gofundme scam on a national level ever.
Click to expand...

Thee who has a vested interest should be footing the bill, not the sheep stuck in the middle.
 
Yota Up said:
That's it? 2 little billion? Those are rookies numbers. What have we spent now, 70-80 billion?
I'd like to see how much each country gave, just to see if anyone out there is giving anything what we are.
Also would show how much total UKR got. This is the biggest Gofundme scam on a national level ever.
Click to expand...
www.statista.com

Total bilateral aid to Ukraine by country & type 2023 | Statista

How much has each country given to Ukraine? The U.S. provided the highest bilateral aid to Ukraine as of May 2023, at nearly 71 billion euros.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

unverified obviously, but ballpark.
 
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