Russia / Ukraine thread

[Sandy Johnson]

I look at it this way. Russia is the one that invaded a sovereign country. Ukraine didn't invade Russia. The reasons Russia used to justify that invasion are pure bullshit. End of story. The claims, probably true, that Ukraine's .gov is corrupt is not a valid reason to invade.

yeah, I'm sure many people share your views as well because on the surface it looks very cut and dry. Something to keep in mind is that it's impossible to prove, but there are a lot of signs that point to the Orange Revolution happening due to clandestine US intervention.

I'm still rooting for the west, but we don't exactly have the moral high ground either.

 

[chaplinfj60]

 

[Icono]

yeah, I'm sure many people share your views as well because on the surface it looks very cut and dry. Something to keep in mind is that it's impossible to prove, but there are a lot of signs that point to the Orange Revolution happening due to clandestine US intervention.

I'm still rooting for the west, but we don't exactly have the moral high ground either.

Glad to see you're catching up, it's only taken 260 pages of posts. You're almost there, Holmes.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Glad to see you're catching up, it's only taken 260 pages of posts. You're almost there, Holmes.

If you look back in this thread, these are things I've always said.


I suck at search, but here are a few:

Ding ding. Unless it's a NATO country, it's not our issue. Stand on the sidelines, gather intel about how Russia fights a war, and stay out of it.

Now I'm not going to say they didn't have corrupt dealings over there, because it sure looks like they did, but I don't recall Putin ever giving that as a reason for invasion.

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make a few pages back- we didn't see Russia make any moves on Ukraine until the Ukrainian government started to shift from Pro-Russia to Pro-West. That's the catalyst.

Now whether our politicians shady dealings had a hand in making that catalyst rear its head is up for debate.

 

[Icono]

Oh, I remember, and these are things you've finally adjusted to, but not quite accepted, yet.

 

[TRINDU]

I look at it this way. Russia is the one that invaded a sovereign country. Ukraine didn't invade Russia. The reasons Russia used to justify that invasion are pure bullshit. End of story. The claims, probably true, that Ukraine's .gov is corrupt is not a valid reason to invade.

Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.

Where in your handbook does it list the acceptable terms to 'invade' another country?

 

[Thumping]

IMO there is a significant difference between setting up a nuclear ICBM launch site and a ICBM interceptor system.
Cuba was slated to get nuclear ICBMs.
Europe is/was slated to get launch/radar installations for missiles to intercept ICBMs.
Kind of like the difference between having a aggressive dog on a chain (or in a picket fence) in your yard and putting up an electric fence around your yard.
One has a risk to people outside of your property if something goes wrong, the other does not.

Aaron Z

One can't lead to the other?

IMO that is significant of a reason for Putin to not want them on his border. Look how far NATO has pushed closer and closer after agreeing they would not. Would you trust NATO if you were in Putin's shoes?

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

Saddam has weapons of mass destruction.

Where in your handbook does it list the acceptable terms to 'invade' another country?

When you're "on the right side of history."

 

[CDA 455 II]

From my understanding of Grizzlies and Black bears (from the local hunters here):
1) Grizzly bear: Would have killed/eaten both pigs.
2) Black bear: Did what it did in the vid. Children/small adult women make better/easier targets.
a) When a Black bear attacks animals, it means it had a bad (plant) feeding season.

 

[CDA 455 II]

You seem to forget a WHOLE lot of illegal invasions, when it suits you.

Serious/honest question:
Illegal invasions specifically involving Ukraine being the invading force?🤔

 

[Yota Up]

All that said, the way the US is going about providing support is fawked. Let other western countries closer to the conflict with more of a stake in the matter deal with the issue.

I just realized that I have not seen any news broadcast talk about how much money any other countries are sending to UKR?
Anyone know how much funding they are getting from other countries?

What if we didn't give them a penny, would the rest of the world call us bad for not handing a quarter to the bum on the floor or would they have no place to talk because they are also holding onto theirs?

 

[87manche]

I just realized that I have not seen any news broadcast talk about how much money any other countries are sending to UKR?
Anyone know how funding they are getting from other countries?

What if we didn't give them a penny, would the rest of the world call us bad for not handing a quarter to the bum on the floor or would they have no place to talk because they are also holding onto theirs?

watch european news channels on youtube.

They all talk about their own contributions just like we talk about our own contributions.

 

[TRINDU]

I just realized that I have not seen any news broadcast talk about how much money any other countries are sending to UKR?
Anyone know how funding they are getting from other countries?

What if we didn't give them a penny, would the rest of the world call us bad for not handing a quarter to the bum on the floor or would they have no place to talk because they are also holding onto theirs?

Quiet you! Orange man... I mean Putin bad!

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

watch european news channels on youtube.

They all talk about their own contributions just like we talk about our own contributions.

Yeah, it's not news in America when Germany gives money to a warring nation. You didn't pay for it.

However in the rest of the world what America does is news, because US political and financial influence is significant in all other countries. Biden might crash the world economy because he can. Going to have to print a lot more billions to keep financing this.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Quiet you! Orange man... I mean Putin bad!

What's the blue, white, and red flag we're bombing?

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Yeah, it's not news in America when Germany gives money to a warring nation. You didn't pay for it.

However in the rest of the world what America does is news, because US political and financial influence is significant in all other countries. Biden might crash the world economy because he can. Going to have to print a lot more billions to keep financing this.

Sooooo... how much is Canada giving?

 

[87manche]

What's the blue, white, and red flag we're bombing?

serbia?

 

[TRINDU]

What's the blue, white, and red flag we're bombing?

Yugo/serbs

 

[Icono]

Serious/honest question:
Illegal invasions specifically involving Ukraine being the invading force?🤔

I had to think about this for a minute to make sure you were serious. I'll take your question at face value.

Did UKR invade anybody? No, doesn't seem like it.

Did they kill 14-15K civilians through shelling? Yes. This after they condemned half of their citizens as being "undesirable" by banning the use of the Russian language. Which is almost half the country. All Eastern.

Depends on your take of what is acceptable.

 

[Icono]

I just realized that I have not seen any news broadcast talk about how much money any other countries are sending to UKR?
Anyone know how much funding they are getting from other countries?

What if we didn't give them a penny, would the rest of the world call us bad for not handing a quarter to the bum on the floor or would they have no place to talk because they are also holding onto theirs?

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

Sooooo... how much is Canada giving?

More than we can afford. $3.4 billion in 2022. Which might not seem like a lot, but it's a few more straws on the camel's back when we have such a low population and a large segment of that population is non-productive. Plus we have given them a significant percentage of our military equipment, not because that's a lot, but because we have so little to begin with.

 

[87manche]

More than we can afford. $3.4 billion in 2022. Which might not seem like a lot, but it's a few more straws on the camel's back when we have such a low population and a large segment of that population is non-productive. Plus we have given them a significant percentage of our military equipment, not because that's a lot, but because we have so little to begin with.

and the American military industrial complex thanks you for your participation.
Enjoy your F35s.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

and the American military industrial complex thanks you for your participation.
Enjoy your F35s.

No, no, no. They will take the contract cancelation fees as we order and cancel them over and over again, paying hundreds of millions of dollars to never even receive a functioning aircraft.

Besides, I'm sure there's some worn the fuck out and otherwise broken F-18s out there that we can be sold to complement our fleet of salvaged F-18s. I mean they only fall out of the sky about one out of ten sorties, so as long as we have a bunch of spares it's all good.

 

[MuntCuffin]

So I'm selling to future of my grandkids down the road for Ukrainians?

Its not that I don't have compassion for Ukrainians, but what do Ukrainians want?

And I'm saying actual Ukrainians, not western influenced and controlled corrupt sock puppets, who work deals to put crack heads in board rooms.

 

[87manche]

No, no, no. They will take the contract cancelation fees as we order and cancel them over and over again, paying hundreds of millions of dollars to never even receive a functioning aircraft.

Besides, I'm sure there's some worn the fuck out and otherwise broken F-18s out there that we can be sold to complement our fleet of salvaged F-18s. I mean they only fall out of the sky about one out of ten sorties, so as long as we have a bunch of spares it's all good.

ok sounds good.

I'm sure we'll refurbish you some f18s that we retire.
They'll only cost 3/4 of what the F35s cost for 1/4 of the service life.
good deal for you.
you sign contract now.

 

[CDA 455 II]

I had to think about this for a minute to make sure you were serious. I'll take your question at face value.

Did UKR invade anybody? No, doesn't seem like it.

Did they kill 14-15K civilians through shelling? Yes. This after they condemned half of their citizens as being "undesirable" by banning the use of the Russian language. Which is almost half the country. All Eastern.

Depends on your take of what is acceptable.

To K.I.S.S.; would you agree with the following:
1) Russia spent 10 months amassing it's army/military on the Ukrainian border.
2) Russia crossed into/through said Ukraine border.

 

[Icono]

No, no, no. They will take the contract cancelation fees as we order and cancel them over and over again, paying hundreds of millions of dollars to never even receive a functioning aircraft.

It'll be cheaper than running those POS F-35s, that's for sure.

 

[Icono]

To K.I.S.S.; would you agree with the following:

1) Russia spent 10 months amassing it's army/military on the Ukrainian border.

After 8 years of belligerence and killing of civilians from the UKR, that's not a long time.

2) Russia crossed into/through said Ukraine border.

Matter of fact.

Where you going with this?

 

[87manche]

It'll be cheaper than running those POS F-35s, that's for sure.

you'll pay twice as much per flight hour and you'll like it!

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

ok sounds good.

I'm sure we'll refurbish you some f18s that we retire.
They'll only cost 3/4 of what the F35s cost for 1/4 of the service life.
good deal for you.
you sign contract now.

Why even refurbish them? We'll take them as is for that price, and when the public questions the decision it will be justified as saving training costs.