Russia / Ukraine thread

[Mikel]

It might surprise some people, but it is possible to simultaneously believe that:

a) Ukraine has a highly corrupt government that equally corrupt Western interests benefit from

b) Russia invaded a smaller/weaker country because of their imperial delusions.

 

[87manche]

Why even refurbish them? We'll take them as is for that price, and when the public questions the decision it will be justified as saving training costs.

well we have to mod them to canadian spec, so that we can get sufficient kickbacks to your public officials.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

It'll be cheaper than running those POS F-35s, that's for sure.

Other than we're going to run out of F-18s pretty soon. I guess we could just put them all in museums for the time being, save 'em for when war actually hits.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Something a lot of people don't mention-

The USSR made a practice of moving ethnicities out of their homeland and into another part of the USSR in an effort to erase their culture or any allegiance they had to anything other than the USSR. As a result, many of these countries that split from the USSR afterwards had a significant portion of Russians living there that had been rotated in after Georgians, Ukrainians, etc were rotated out. That's why there's always a pro-russian contingent and it's messy to untangle

 

[RedX]

well we have to mod them to canadian spec, so that we can get sufficient kickbacks to your public officials.

You have to switch the speedometers to km/h, and put the steering wheels on the other side? (No wait...the steering wheels is an English thing...apologies).

 

[Sandy Johnson]

You have to switch the speedometers to km/h, and put the steering wheels on the other side? (No wait...the steering wheels is an English thing...apologies).

They swap all the SAE bolts out for metric.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

Something a lot of people don't mention-

The USSR made a practice of moving ethnicities out of their homeland and into another part of the USSR in an effort to erase their culture or any allegiance they had to anything other than the USSR. As a result, many of these countries that split from the USSR afterwards had a significant portion of Russians living there that had been rotated in after Georgians, Ukrainians, etc were rotated out. That's why there's always a pro-russian contingent and it's messy to untangle

Yes, the standard practice of colonialism. It then leads to the question of if diverse populations are ever able to remain stable, or if they are all doomed to infighting, succession, or genocide.

Russia also has historically made massive investments in the Ukraine. Back to Catherine the Great the foundations were made for most of the modern cities, and more recently post WWII when basically the entire country was rebuilt at the cost of the rest of Russia. Part of the "that's mine" attitude.

 

[Icono]

It might surprise some people, but it is possible to simultaneously believe that:

a) Ukraine has a highly corrupt government that equally corrupt Western interests benefit from

b) Russia invaded a smaller/weaker country because of their imperial delusions.

You can't really believe point b. WTF?

Do you really believe Russia needed more land? Black Sea, sure.

They have the largest land mass as a country in the World. For what, wheat?

Explain.

 

[Icono]

They swap all the SAE bolts out for metric.

Who doesn't?

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

well we have to mod them to canadian spec, so that we can get sufficient kickbacks to your public officials.

Yes, the cost breakdown would be like this:

-Remove modern armaments: $5,000,000/unit
-Remove modern radar: $10,000,000/unit
-Remove modern comms: $12,000,000/unit
-Remove standard tires: $6,000,000/unit
-Install Lee Enfield Mk4* in wing mounts: $18,000,000 X2/unit
-Install big analog clock (radar replacement): $12,000,000/unit
-Install cassette player (w/ Nickelback loop tape): $1,400,000,000/unit (most of cost is royalties to Nickelback)
-Install Canadian Tire house brand (Motormaster) snow tires: $649.99/unit mount and balance included

Total conversion price: Like anyone is going to bother adding that up, just smash the buy button.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

You can't really believe point b. WTF?

Do you really believe Russia needed more land? Black Sea, sure.

They have the largest land mass as a country in the World. For what, wheat?

Explain.

Do we really need to spell out why Ukraine would be a huge economic and geopolitical prize for Russia here? We all know the benefits, right?

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

Do we really need to spell out why Ukraine would be a huge economic and geopolitical prize for Russia here? We all know the benefits, right?

Perogies.

 

[Icono]

Do we really need to spell out why Ukraine would be a huge economic and geopolitical prize for Russia here? We all know the benefits, right?

You mean how the US should have kept it around instead of throwing it under the bus?

That "we"?

 

[Mikel]

Do we really need to spell out why Ukraine would be a huge economic and geopolitical prize for Russia here? We all know the benefits, right?

For a nation that is so god-awful and so full of dastardly nazis, Russia sure wants it quite badly.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

You mean how the US should have kept it around instead of throwing it under the bus?

That "we"?

No, I don't know about that. Want to tell me more?

 

[Icono]

For a nation that is so god-awful and so full of dastardly nazis, Russia sure wants it quite badly.

You aren't that new to history. Poland wants the Western UKR back, they have made a claim to it.

They're just waiting, but have lost troops trying to be "strategic" about it. It's gonna work out about as well as their agreement with Germany to split Czechia before WWII.

 

[shortbus4x4]

You have to switch the speedometers to km/h, and put the steering wheels on the other side? (No wait...the steering wheels is an English thing...apologies).

Don't forget all the instructions have to be in English and French.

 

[Icono]

No, I don't know about that. Want to tell me more?

You're a little slow with reading and comprehension, so I'll type out my response accordingly. Expect it next week.

 

[Icono]

Ooof...

Tomorrow, 20.10.2022, electricity supply restrictions will be introduced throughout Ukraine.
Today the enemy has destroyed power generating facilities again.
Please take this seriously.
Starting from 7:00 to 23:00, it is necessary to minimize the use of electricity.
This applies to residents of ALL regions of the country. If you do not do this, you should prepare for temporary blackouts.
Also, starting tomorrow, the use of street lighting in cities will be limited.
These are necessary steps. So we are all working together on our front!

 

[aczlan]

One can't lead to the other?

IMO that is significant of a reason for Putin to not want them on his border. Look how far NATO has pushed closer and closer after agreeing they would not. Would you trust NATO if you were in Putin's shoes?

When did they agree to not come closer? Gorbachev said that no such agreement was made:

Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Aaron Z

 

[TRINDU]

Do we really need to spell out why Ukraine would be a huge economic and geopolitical prize for Russia here? We all know the benefits, right?

With all the sanctions put on russia, and the vast resources they already hold, what would russian gain? A pummeled country?

They cant export a damn thing, especially with USA/NATO blowing up their pipelines.

 

[CDA 455 II]

After 8 years of belligerence and killing of civilians from the UKR, that's not a long time. <---new-to-me info

Matter of fact.✅

Where you going with this?

Getting a better understanding of your POV.


Can you expand on your first point?

 

[TRINDU]

It might surprise some people, but it is possible to simultaneously believe that:

a) Ukraine has a highly corrupt government that equally corrupt Western interests benefit from

b) Russia invaded a smaller/weaker country because of their imperial delusions.

INot like russia woke up one day and said,"fuck Ukraine, that's mine now".

It's been a complex situation for decades and the 'west' needs to fuck off.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Getting a better understanding of your POV.


Can you expand on your first point?

Between Russia taking Crimea and Russia invading Ukraine, pro-Russian separatists have been fighting with Ukraine in Donetsk and Luhansk after they held their own independence referendums and the Ukrainian government said no. Part of that was the Ukrainian government shelling the separatists.

 

[RedX]

Don't forget all the instructions have to be in English and French.

Oh yeah!

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

Between Russia taking Crimea and Russia invading Ukraine, pro-Russian separatists have been fighting with Ukraine in Donetsk and Luhansk after they held their own independence referendums and the Ukrainian government said no. Part of that was the Ukrainian government shelling the separatists.

The separatists were aided & abetted by Moscow, so I have zero sympathy for them. It's an internal matter for Ukraine and Moscow needs to butt the fuck out, instead they instigated a revolt and terrorism in those areas.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

The separatists were aided & abetted by Moscow, so I have zero sympathy for them. It's an internal matter for Ukraine and Moscow needs to butt the fuck out, instead they instigated a revolt and terrorism in those areas.

That's another one of those shady things that happened leading up to the invasion of Ukraine- there's no good proof that Russia backed the separatists, but there are a lot of signs pointing to that's what happened.

I wonder how we would handle that here. What if one of our states suddenly voted to secede from the union and wrote up their own declaration of independence? Should we just let them go? If we don't, should other countries get to support them in their efforts?

 

[87manche]

Yes, the cost breakdown would be like this:

-Remove modern armaments: $5,000,000/unit
-Remove modern radar: $10,000,000/unit
-Remove modern comms: $12,000,000/unit
-Remove standard tires: $6,000,000/unit
-Install Lee Enfield Mk4* in wing mounts: $18,000,000 X2/unit
-Install big analog clock (radar replacement): $12,000,000/unit
-Install cassette player (w/ Nickelback loop tape): $1,400,000,000/unit (most of cost is royalties to Nickelback)
-Install Canadian Tire house brand (Motormaster) snow tires: $649.99/unit mount and balance included

Total conversion price: Like anyone is going to bother adding that up, just smash the buy button.

I thought we were just installing a gravy dispenser in the cockpit.

 

[rockota]

Hasnt the US done the same thing in other places?

Nuh-uh! If you believe that, it’s because your are a Putin apologist

 

[Mikel]

INot like russia woke up one day and said,"fuck Ukraine, that's mine now".

It's been a complex situation for decades and the 'west' needs to fuck off.

I will sooner buy that a 400 lb person doesn't have a history of over-eating than a nation that occupies 1/6 of the world's land area does not have a compulsive tendency to invade its neighbors.