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Russia / Ukraine thread

There's a good possibility of a cease fire by day one so negotiations can start, that can be interpreted as ending the war. We have tons of leverage on Ukraine through funding and arms supply, I'm sure we have plenty of incentives to offer Russia. Set the conditions for peace, and that should be the expected outcome. Doesn't mean everyone has to like each other, just stop killing each other.
 
east_beast said:
If you shoot off an ICBM that's traversing the globe you're triggering WWIII. That seems to be the key thing you're missing here. You can't launch an ICBM that is going to pass over the U.S. and Europe without triggering an immense response because there's no way of knowing whether that ICBM is targeting you or not. You'd learn a lot from those Annie Jacobsen podcasts
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Just read her book.

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WashingtonMatt said:
There's a good possibility of a cease fire by day one so negotiations can start, that can be interpreted as ending the war. We have tons of leverage on Ukraine through funding and arms supply, I'm sure we have plenty of incentives to offer Russia. Set the conditions for peace, and that should be the expected outcome. Doesn't mean everyone has to like each other, just stop killing each other.
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They won't stop killing each other, that's all there is to that
 
Kinda sounds to me like Russia is NOT trying to escalate things without taking any shit at the same time. Ukraine seems to be trying as hard as they can to escalate this war in an attempt to lock us in with help.

Have to remember that Russia knows exactly how a nuclear war would play out just the same as we do. They don't want it either. Ukraine on the other hand, I don't think that guy has a clue.

You know what would be the best tell of all in this shit? What is Zelensky worth right now?

It may never be reported but, I'd be surprised if Russia didn't inform the USA that they were about to send a ICBM to Ukraine through some back channel. I could be wrong, but given the chances of misreading the launch and the possible reaction to it......a simple heads up wouldn't be a bad idea .
 
east_beast said:
No Ukraine in NATO and lifting sanctions on Russia upon the signing of a peace deal.
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I think this is non negotiable and fair.

east_beast said:
The real negotiation will be establishing where the eastern line of Ukraine will be going forward and providing for people to land on the side of the line they want to be in. And no, you're not going to even come close to making everyone happy there. That's just reality.
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I say open it up to negotiations, we’ve “invested” how many billions in Ukraine and seen no roi on our money. If Russia agrees to pay what we’ve dumped into Ukraine, 175 billion, so let’s call it 225-250 billion with interest they get to draw the lines. They can’t stop the movement of people for 5 years and can’t move any hard boarders, essentially allowing them to make Ukraine a puppet state, which is what they want.
 
Pocahontas said:
I say open it up to negotiations, we’ve “invested” how many billions in Ukraine and seen no roi on our money. If Russia agrees to pay what we’ve dumped into Ukraine, 175 billion, so let’s call it 225-250 billion with interest they get to draw the lines. They can’t stop the movement of people for 5 years and can’t move any hard boarders, essentially allowing them to make Ukraine a puppet state, which is what they want.
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You want to sell a sovereign nation to another sovereign nation?
 
Pocahontas said:
I think this is non negotiable and fair.



I say open it up to negotiations, we’ve “invested” how many billions in Ukraine and seen no roi on our money. If Russia agrees to pay what we’ve dumped into Ukraine, 175 billion, so let’s call it 225-250 billion with interest they get to draw the lines. They can’t stop the movement of people for 5 years and can’t move any hard boarders, essentially allowing them to make Ukraine a puppet state, which is what they want.
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I've said it before and will say it again, fuck Ukraine, and fuck Russia. Not our monkeys, not our circus. If Ukraine wants to be free they can fight like we did in 1776 or like the south tried in 1861. If they win, great, I'm happy for them. If they lose, oh well, a corrupt government got wiped out.
All these pro Ukraine people seem to forget that they impeached Trump for making a phone call just to ASK about Hunter Biden's bullshit there. Ukraine was a dirty shithole til Biden got elected and now OMG we gotta give them all this money! Save Ukraine!
Fuck Ukraine
 
BDK said:
You want to sell a sovereign nation to another sovereign nation?
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The eastern regions declared independence and left Ukraine, Russia recognizes them as self governing and came to their aide.

Imagine i5 corridor from Canada to Portland decided they wanted to be free of the USA. Obviously the US would be militarily active, as they always have. Then Canada comes to the assistance of Portlandia.

Would anybody really give a shit? Would you fight for the port of Tacoma and Seattle enough to matter?
 
Provience said:
The eastern regions declared independence and left Ukraine, Russia recognizes them as self governing and came to their aide.

Imagine i5 corridor from Canada to Portland decided they wanted to be free of the USA. Obviously the US would be militarily active, as they always have. Then Canada comes to the assistance of Portlandia.

Would anybody really give a shit? Would you fight for the port of Tacoma and Seattle enough to matter?
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" Who will die for Gdansk ? " Off the top of my head, the words of Adolf Hitler in 1939 immediately prior to invading Poland. . Google me bitches :flipoff2:
 
Not so sure the Russian weapons are not maintained. They are using hypersonics and making improvements on them. They just used a short-range ballistic missile that had multiple warheads on it. And it worked. They are using Ukraine for testing and improvement of their weapons. I wouldn't doubt the long range ballistic-ICBM work just as well. Its pretty silent in Washington on this. Me thinks everyone in Washington wants a war with Russia.
 
BDK said:
You want to sell a sovereign nation to another sovereign nation?
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Influence over a nation, if you think that’s not what’s already happening all the time with international politics I’ve got some ocean front land in Arizona to sell you.
 
Provience said:
The eastern regions declared independence and left Ukraine, Russia recognizes them as self governing and came to their aide.

Imagine i5 corridor from Canada to Portland decided they wanted to be free of the USA. Obviously the US would be militarily active, as they always have. Then Canada comes to the assistance of Portlandia.

Would anybody really give a shit? Would you fight for the port of Tacoma and Seattle enough to matter?
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This is the part a lot of the Ukraine flag wavers conveniently leave out. Hell, they probably don't even know about it. They'd just dismiss it as Putin propaganda. That's what our government did. They just claimed that Russia rigged the elections. But the results were backed up by third party polling results. The election results pretty much mirrored what was expected based on polling.
 
Pocahontas said:
Influence over a nation, if you think that’s not what’s already happening all the time with international politics I’ve got some ocean front land in Arizona to sell you.
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Yeah, everyone in our immediate neighborhood (Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Central America, Caribbean, most of South America) their "sovereignty" extends as far as we allow it. On domestic issues we don't really care. Get sideways on an issue we really care about though? Yeah, your ass is about to get couped.
 
He says his intentions from the start in one of his first sentences. Regional conflict with Ukraine, NOT Ukraine conflict.



.
 
Archer said:
He says his intentions from the start in one of his first sentences. Regional conflict with Ukraine, NOT Ukraine conflict.



.
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Lots of politicians SAY what their "intentions" are.

Let alone a fuckin Russian politician that cut his teeth in the KGB. He knows what to say that people want to hear. You'd be wise to keep that in mind.
 
Weasel said:
yeah screw him and his disillusion. They have nothing on the US, even the rest of the Nato countries could put a hurting on them.
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How many us service men and women were killed by Russian made weapons in:
Korea
Vietnam
Afghanistan
Iraq?

Whether or not the wars were warranted is up for debate (just as it is in Ukraine vs russia) and not germaine to the question, utilizing pootine's own reasoning.
 
Weasel said:
yeah screw him and his disillusion. They have nothing on the US, even the rest of the Nato countries could put a hurting on them.
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In a conventional war, absolutely. Russia's only real threat to the west is it's nuclear arsenal but that's the realest threat there is.

Which is why it's so insane to do this boil the frog escalation with this war that means fuck all to us outside of profiteering and dick waving at Russia because our foreign policy establishment still views them as the USSR because most of them are in fact Cold War dinosaurs like Putin is himself. Russia is not the threat that the old USSR was. This Ukraine conflict proves that. This is COVID all over again. They lie then when their lies are exposed they keep doubling down until they just abandon that lie and switch to a new narrative. Remember when we had to stop Putin in Ukraine or he'd invade NATO countries and how they'd be in Kiev in a matter of weeks? How laughable does that look now? Remember when we'd never ship them some type of weaponry only to ship that weaponry a couple months later (over and over again)? Remember when Russia blew up their own pipeline? Snake Island? The Ghost of Kiev. It was all pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Putin isn't a good guy. The Russians aren't our friends. But our approach to this Ukraine shit is dangerously idiotic that is very high risk virtually no reward.
 
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east_beast said:
In a conventional war, absolutely. Russia's only real threat to the west is it's nuclear arsenal but that's the realest threat there is.

Which is why it's so insane to do this boil the frog escalation with this war hlthat means fuck all to us outside of profiteering and dick waving at Russia because our foreign policy establishment still views them as the USSR because most of them are in fact Cold War dinosaurs like Putin is himself. Russia is not the threat that the old USSR was. This Ukraine conflict proves that. This is COVID all over again. They lie then when their lies are exposed they keep doubling down until they just abandon that lie and switch to a Jew narrative. Remember when we had to stop Putin in Ukraine or he'd invade NATO countries and how they'd be in Kiev in a matter of weeks? How laughable does that look now? Remember when we'd never ship them some type of weaponry only to ship that weaponry a couple months later (over and over again)? Remember when Russia blew up their own pipeline? Snake Island? The Ghost of Kiev. It was all pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Putin isn't a good guy. The Russians aren't our friends. But our approach to this Ukraine shit is dangerously idiotic that is very high risk virtually no reward.
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I'm not ready to discount Russian capabilities. They aren't using their air force for a reason. While I am surprised how this conflict has developed, I do believe they have way more capability than the propaganda machine wants us to believe.
 
east_beast said:
I listened to that when it dropped over the summer and it is gooooood. She was on Rogan too. Honestly, no reason to listen to both. Pick whichever. If you prefer Rogan listen to that one, if you prefer Shawn Ryan listen to that one

She also might have the sexiest sounding fucking voice ever so there's that too. :laughing:
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started her on rogan on the way home, +1 on the sexy voice:eek:
makes the shit news better somehow.
 
WashingtonMatt said:
I'm not ready to discount Russian capabilities. They aren't using their air force for a reason. While I am surprised how this conflict has developed, I do believe they have way more capability than the propaganda machine wants us to believe.
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Honestly, this conflict has probably just made them militarily stronger by forcing them into a war economy.
 
Thanks Easty, exactly. Matt, I dont think the Rooskies are using their airforce because it has been shwn to be incredibly suseptible to modern anti aircraft missles. They ( the aircraft) are not the effective game changers they were 20 years ago, it seems. The Israeli had no trouble against Russian intel and tactical weapons in Iran, but the Sons of David are superior men and have have superior equipment and training.
 
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