I’ve cruised each direction once so far in the CanAm. Not sure if Legacy or the old MX track it’s next to was the start of it. But I know Legacy has used it. Quite the mix of expected and unexpected combos out there.
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Rock Lizard/Weekend Ultra4(?); blown LS, 40s, tons, bypasses, etc.
- Thread starter snivilous
- Start date
snivilous
Well-known member
I have no idea what portion I was on, I got on something and then over the railroad tracks and there was a nice loop up a little hill with two jumps on top. Seemed a lot bigger and more dug out than what I was expecting for a motorcycle track so that would make sense.
snivilous
Well-known member
PART 1: Wednesday and Thursday I did a little prep to the buggy, mostly just checking bolts and fluids and got it loaded up to go racing on Saturday.
The race was put on by Bonneville Offroad Racing and was in Vernal UT, about a 6 hour drive from me. I got up early Friday and got up there around noon, with prerunning starting at 2pm and followed by tech inspection. The race was 8x 16 mile laps, so around ~128 miles total. Not much had obviously changed on the buggy since I had attempted to do the Knolls race, the only functional difference was the addition of the rear sway bar.
It went through tech without issue, and nothing exciting about the prerun lap---though I did get into the bump stops more just during the prerun lap than I would've liked, so I decided to increase the compression on all the bypass tubes. Both rear tubes ended up with only one turn out on compression (so barely functioning as bypasses at all), the front top tube had two turns out, and the front bottom tubes were threaded out quite a bit so I just added two turns in on them, and then the bump stops stayed at the 300psi I always run. This was definitely a smart choice. The course didn't really have any whoop sections, a lot of it was literally driving across big fields and then really deep gullies. At first I wasn't a huge fan of the course and thought it was kind of bland, but I actually had a ton of fun on it. There was a lot of corners, a couple good higher speed straight aways, running down a couple graded roads, even dipping into a circle track, across some parking lots, quite a bit of variety at the end of the day and utilizing everything from the gullies to man made spots which I thought was unique and made it fun.
Of course I don't have any photos of anything, hopefully some photographers grabbed some that I can post, so I'll just do a quick summary and some aftermath photos.
We started the race as the lead vehicle, which is based on registration and nothing else. At first I thought it'd kind of suck since everyone would be hunting us down, but it was actually amazing since the course turned out to be extremely dusty. Since this is a very small race, it's effectively broken into two classes: truck/buggy and UTV. There were a couple people in our class, most notably was a V8 ford thing with beams and trailing arms and everything right behind us, followed by a 6200 (class 1 with a LS3), and some other red truck that seemed to have a V8 and looked like a mini trophy truck kind of but I wasn't sure what class he'd technically fall under. I had the largest tires of anyone and only one with 4WD, but was certainly lacking in the front travel department, so possibly a fair stack up against the other V8 guys. We ended up staying in the front until halfway through lap 3, which I think is pretty amazing since the time splits showed the guys behind us catching up (1 minute splits) but it wasn't very consistent. Sometimes you'd see them a turn or two back and other times we'd lose them. Halfway through the 3rd lap I ended up tipping it on its side, which was insanely stupid. There was a gully you'd pop out of, and straight ahead was a motocross track which the UTVs took but the big trucks bypassed, so we'd take a sharp 90deg right, so I cranked the tire and floored it and it didn't slide like I expected and all of a sudden had a bunch of traction and just threw the body over and tipped onto the drivers side. Some volunteers came over and pulled us back over, no issues though a bit of some fluid had leaked out (still not sure what it was, guessing from a valve cover?). Fired her up and we were off again!
We had talked about pitting once (there was three of us total, my passenger and then a third guy at the pit) mainly since I didn't know if I could do the whole course on a single tank so I wanted to get gas at some point, and this was the perfect time to get gas and inspect everything. We dumped in 10 gallons, and the two guys with me decided to switch for some reason (I think the guy with me when we flopped was traumatized after that hahaha), and I looked over all the bolts and checked some fluids and everything seemed totally fine so we took off again.
Did another 1.5 laps (partway through the 4th lap now) and something was feeling a bit weird. I was suspicious a tire had blown, and I had seen a rock at one point that had worried me a bit but it looked like a relatively small rock and not that jagged and I figured the 40s would care (not sure if I even hit it, but I had noticed it). Since the laps were so short, I hadn't even bothered to pack a jack or really much of any supplies since if something happened just go to the pit. Because of that, I didn't bother to stop to check the tires since I figured we would stop at the pit and if a tire was blown change it then (I wonder if the Holley can pick up tire pressure sensors....). And it was extremely subtle if anything was actually wrong, just one of those things where certain corners or bumps didn't quite feel right, an extra little bump like the wheel was hitting the ground maybe. I get to that same spot where I tipped it, which leads into a big long left hand turn as you run through this gravel parking lot, and we are cruising at probably 60-70mph and the vehicle just goes insane. And I'm going fuck you, I'm not rolling again. I don't know if the rear let loose or the front, but it reached the traction limit and began to slide/spin/go up on two tires and I was able to get it under control but the trade off was either go through a fence or try to turn left and all but guarantee it would roll so I picked the fence. Of course, the whole fence is just flimsy fence posts except the part I hit which was where a gate normally would be and consisted of ~3" ~0.25" wall steel pipes two feet into the ground, and somehow I ended up hitting all four of them! Three of them got ripped out of the ground, but one decided to stay and fight and got flattened.
My thought running into the posts was hopefully this doesn't stop us instantly! I didn't even feel it run over the posts, but they did their work on the front end. At first I thought everything was fine but quickly found out the steering was fucked up. And fucked up it was!
The steering arm I had welded on got ripped off. And at first glance the driver's tire was also flat. I would not have guessed a front tire was flat when it was feeling weird, I would've thought the driver's rear was flat but that's not saying much. I'm not sure if the driver's tire was flat before we hit the fence or was punctured due to it. We ended up grabbing the trailer and coming back, and during that time the passenger tire decided to also go flat. The passenger wheel has a pretty serious bend on the inner lip, the driver's wheel has a much small bend on the inner lip. I don't think the driver's wheel is compromised, that tire had a hole on the inside wall of the tire, and from people that were around while getting the trailer they said the passenger tire was fine and then there was a hiss and it went flat, so the passenger tire I think is (or was, prior to driving it onto the trailer) fine but the wheel probably broke the seal and let the air out. And I'll mention it here too, the passenger rear tire had a nail in the tread and when I got home at least was definitely at a lower pressure than the driver's rear tire. Ironically the one tire I was suspicious of was the only tire that currently has full pressure in it! Did the driver's front go flat and cause it to let go? Did the passenger rear lose enough pressure that on the left hand turn it folded over? Do I suck at driving? Well the first two we'll never know.
Additionally, and actually the biggest issue, is the front crossmember broke the welds (presumably when we hit the fence?) and got shoved back.
Which I haven't fully investigated, but I'm hoping I can just shove it back to its home and weld it and call it good. That crossmember had no bracing or gusseting, so needless to say time to do that.
The race was put on by Bonneville Offroad Racing and was in Vernal UT, about a 6 hour drive from me. I got up early Friday and got up there around noon, with prerunning starting at 2pm and followed by tech inspection. The race was 8x 16 mile laps, so around ~128 miles total. Not much had obviously changed on the buggy since I had attempted to do the Knolls race, the only functional difference was the addition of the rear sway bar.
It went through tech without issue, and nothing exciting about the prerun lap---though I did get into the bump stops more just during the prerun lap than I would've liked, so I decided to increase the compression on all the bypass tubes. Both rear tubes ended up with only one turn out on compression (so barely functioning as bypasses at all), the front top tube had two turns out, and the front bottom tubes were threaded out quite a bit so I just added two turns in on them, and then the bump stops stayed at the 300psi I always run. This was definitely a smart choice. The course didn't really have any whoop sections, a lot of it was literally driving across big fields and then really deep gullies. At first I wasn't a huge fan of the course and thought it was kind of bland, but I actually had a ton of fun on it. There was a lot of corners, a couple good higher speed straight aways, running down a couple graded roads, even dipping into a circle track, across some parking lots, quite a bit of variety at the end of the day and utilizing everything from the gullies to man made spots which I thought was unique and made it fun.
Of course I don't have any photos of anything, hopefully some photographers grabbed some that I can post, so I'll just do a quick summary and some aftermath photos.
We started the race as the lead vehicle, which is based on registration and nothing else. At first I thought it'd kind of suck since everyone would be hunting us down, but it was actually amazing since the course turned out to be extremely dusty. Since this is a very small race, it's effectively broken into two classes: truck/buggy and UTV. There were a couple people in our class, most notably was a V8 ford thing with beams and trailing arms and everything right behind us, followed by a 6200 (class 1 with a LS3), and some other red truck that seemed to have a V8 and looked like a mini trophy truck kind of but I wasn't sure what class he'd technically fall under. I had the largest tires of anyone and only one with 4WD, but was certainly lacking in the front travel department, so possibly a fair stack up against the other V8 guys. We ended up staying in the front until halfway through lap 3, which I think is pretty amazing since the time splits showed the guys behind us catching up (1 minute splits) but it wasn't very consistent. Sometimes you'd see them a turn or two back and other times we'd lose them. Halfway through the 3rd lap I ended up tipping it on its side, which was insanely stupid. There was a gully you'd pop out of, and straight ahead was a motocross track which the UTVs took but the big trucks bypassed, so we'd take a sharp 90deg right, so I cranked the tire and floored it and it didn't slide like I expected and all of a sudden had a bunch of traction and just threw the body over and tipped onto the drivers side. Some volunteers came over and pulled us back over, no issues though a bit of some fluid had leaked out (still not sure what it was, guessing from a valve cover?). Fired her up and we were off again!
We had talked about pitting once (there was three of us total, my passenger and then a third guy at the pit) mainly since I didn't know if I could do the whole course on a single tank so I wanted to get gas at some point, and this was the perfect time to get gas and inspect everything. We dumped in 10 gallons, and the two guys with me decided to switch for some reason (I think the guy with me when we flopped was traumatized after that hahaha), and I looked over all the bolts and checked some fluids and everything seemed totally fine so we took off again.
Did another 1.5 laps (partway through the 4th lap now) and something was feeling a bit weird. I was suspicious a tire had blown, and I had seen a rock at one point that had worried me a bit but it looked like a relatively small rock and not that jagged and I figured the 40s would care (not sure if I even hit it, but I had noticed it). Since the laps were so short, I hadn't even bothered to pack a jack or really much of any supplies since if something happened just go to the pit. Because of that, I didn't bother to stop to check the tires since I figured we would stop at the pit and if a tire was blown change it then (I wonder if the Holley can pick up tire pressure sensors....). And it was extremely subtle if anything was actually wrong, just one of those things where certain corners or bumps didn't quite feel right, an extra little bump like the wheel was hitting the ground maybe. I get to that same spot where I tipped it, which leads into a big long left hand turn as you run through this gravel parking lot, and we are cruising at probably 60-70mph and the vehicle just goes insane. And I'm going fuck you, I'm not rolling again. I don't know if the rear let loose or the front, but it reached the traction limit and began to slide/spin/go up on two tires and I was able to get it under control but the trade off was either go through a fence or try to turn left and all but guarantee it would roll so I picked the fence. Of course, the whole fence is just flimsy fence posts except the part I hit which was where a gate normally would be and consisted of ~3" ~0.25" wall steel pipes two feet into the ground, and somehow I ended up hitting all four of them! Three of them got ripped out of the ground, but one decided to stay and fight and got flattened.
My thought running into the posts was hopefully this doesn't stop us instantly! I didn't even feel it run over the posts, but they did their work on the front end. At first I thought everything was fine but quickly found out the steering was fucked up. And fucked up it was!
The steering arm I had welded on got ripped off. And at first glance the driver's tire was also flat. I would not have guessed a front tire was flat when it was feeling weird, I would've thought the driver's rear was flat but that's not saying much. I'm not sure if the driver's tire was flat before we hit the fence or was punctured due to it. We ended up grabbing the trailer and coming back, and during that time the passenger tire decided to also go flat. The passenger wheel has a pretty serious bend on the inner lip, the driver's wheel has a much small bend on the inner lip. I don't think the driver's wheel is compromised, that tire had a hole on the inside wall of the tire, and from people that were around while getting the trailer they said the passenger tire was fine and then there was a hiss and it went flat, so the passenger tire I think is (or was, prior to driving it onto the trailer) fine but the wheel probably broke the seal and let the air out. And I'll mention it here too, the passenger rear tire had a nail in the tread and when I got home at least was definitely at a lower pressure than the driver's rear tire. Ironically the one tire I was suspicious of was the only tire that currently has full pressure in it! Did the driver's front go flat and cause it to let go? Did the passenger rear lose enough pressure that on the left hand turn it folded over? Do I suck at driving? Well the first two we'll never know.
Additionally, and actually the biggest issue, is the front crossmember broke the welds (presumably when we hit the fence?) and got shoved back.
Which I haven't fully investigated, but I'm hoping I can just shove it back to its home and weld it and call it good. That crossmember had no bracing or gusseting, so needless to say time to do that.
snivilous
Well-known member
PART 2:
Once I got home I backed the trailer under the lift and hoisted the buggy off to avoid fucking with it.
And then stripped the panels off just to see if there was any additional carnage, which I have YET to find.
Though looking at the steering arm is VERY telling:
I would've thought the knuckle welds would've been some of the best since I was able to preheat and post heat and wrap in a welding blanket unlike a lot of other cast things I've welded, but alas not. Which makes a lot more sense why it broke. I was talking to someone and they said 99% Nickel filler is good for welding cast since it's very ductile? I'll have to try that.
All in all, on the surface looks like simple fixes. I'm hoping I can just weld everything back to its home, and the only real monetary casualty is a tire and maybe a wheel. Though part of me also debates that maybe this is prime time to fully tear the chassis down to sand blast and paint it, and I can go in and gusset everything at that time, then swap in the new engine plus the bypasses need to come off to revalve them since they need a bump in compression at a minimum. I'm not sure entirely what my plan moving forward is, I need to clean the chassis up and inspect it and see if anything else is fucked up.
With all of that said though! The buggy was absolutely amazing, it was incredibly reliable, the hottest the engine got was 205 and the trans peaked at 185. I didn't watch the IAT but I saw 106 after a couple laps, so the supercharger/full hydro cooler was working great. It handled really well, I had it up past 75mph and it was just cruising. Soaked up a lot of stuff really well actually for what it is, the shocks I put temp stickers on but they didn't even register the low end 219F (albeit no whoops and stuff) so that's great. The sway bar worked great, I think a small front bar and maybe downsize the rear might help a bit but honestly with how it's handling I'll leave it as is for awhile. The steering I still want to go to a 2 turn orbital, though the 3 turn wasn't as bad as I thought going fast but still some spots where more turns would help. I think a 2 turn may have helped prevent it from flopping since I had turned into the flop direction but it wasn't enough where as a 2 turn would've given the tire a lot more motion. The cockpit was really comfortable, my only complaint is the radio and intercom sometimes hit my elbow if I'm trying to fuck with the shifter and they're also all but inaccessible to the passenger because my arm is in the way, so I might move those. The engine and trans and 4WD did great, this was by far the hardest I've pushed it and lots of full throttle use. The diffs were happy and not too warm. The steering wheel extension was great, I didn't think about it's position at all so happy with where it's at. The brakes worked extremely well, very happy with them. I never wanted more brakes, I could lock them up all day long. I have the brake pedal on the left foot and I really liked that. My only complaint with the brakes is maybe a bit more bite would be nice, the assist is so powerful it's almost hard to feel much feedback so maybe a lower pedal ratio or grabbier pads or a larger MC, but I never once thought I needed more brakes--just like how the steering is, I'd prefer less motion and more action so I don't have to move as much. The transmission shifting was pretty good actually, though I want to hook up the paddle shifters since sometimes it felt a bit delayed downshifting and no way was I going to put a hand on the shifter and fuck with selecting the correct gear.
What else.... really not a lot to complain about, out of the box I am extremely happy and impressed with how it performed. Granted this was a very small field of competitors, but considering it was at least able to hold off similarly or higher end vehicles gives me a glimmer of hope that it's not the absolute slowest racecar ever built. It doesn't have to win, but not being the slowest would be an accomplishment! I had an absolute blast, and even with the flop and then busting the front a little, it was a ton of fun and I couldn't be happier with the vehicles performance.
Once I got home I backed the trailer under the lift and hoisted the buggy off to avoid fucking with it.
And then stripped the panels off just to see if there was any additional carnage, which I have YET to find.
Though looking at the steering arm is VERY telling:
I would've thought the knuckle welds would've been some of the best since I was able to preheat and post heat and wrap in a welding blanket unlike a lot of other cast things I've welded, but alas not. Which makes a lot more sense why it broke. I was talking to someone and they said 99% Nickel filler is good for welding cast since it's very ductile? I'll have to try that.
All in all, on the surface looks like simple fixes. I'm hoping I can just weld everything back to its home, and the only real monetary casualty is a tire and maybe a wheel. Though part of me also debates that maybe this is prime time to fully tear the chassis down to sand blast and paint it, and I can go in and gusset everything at that time, then swap in the new engine plus the bypasses need to come off to revalve them since they need a bump in compression at a minimum. I'm not sure entirely what my plan moving forward is, I need to clean the chassis up and inspect it and see if anything else is fucked up.
With all of that said though! The buggy was absolutely amazing, it was incredibly reliable, the hottest the engine got was 205 and the trans peaked at 185. I didn't watch the IAT but I saw 106 after a couple laps, so the supercharger/full hydro cooler was working great. It handled really well, I had it up past 75mph and it was just cruising. Soaked up a lot of stuff really well actually for what it is, the shocks I put temp stickers on but they didn't even register the low end 219F (albeit no whoops and stuff) so that's great. The sway bar worked great, I think a small front bar and maybe downsize the rear might help a bit but honestly with how it's handling I'll leave it as is for awhile. The steering I still want to go to a 2 turn orbital, though the 3 turn wasn't as bad as I thought going fast but still some spots where more turns would help. I think a 2 turn may have helped prevent it from flopping since I had turned into the flop direction but it wasn't enough where as a 2 turn would've given the tire a lot more motion. The cockpit was really comfortable, my only complaint is the radio and intercom sometimes hit my elbow if I'm trying to fuck with the shifter and they're also all but inaccessible to the passenger because my arm is in the way, so I might move those. The engine and trans and 4WD did great, this was by far the hardest I've pushed it and lots of full throttle use. The diffs were happy and not too warm. The steering wheel extension was great, I didn't think about it's position at all so happy with where it's at. The brakes worked extremely well, very happy with them. I never wanted more brakes, I could lock them up all day long. I have the brake pedal on the left foot and I really liked that. My only complaint with the brakes is maybe a bit more bite would be nice, the assist is so powerful it's almost hard to feel much feedback so maybe a lower pedal ratio or grabbier pads or a larger MC, but I never once thought I needed more brakes--just like how the steering is, I'd prefer less motion and more action so I don't have to move as much. The transmission shifting was pretty good actually, though I want to hook up the paddle shifters since sometimes it felt a bit delayed downshifting and no way was I going to put a hand on the shifter and fuck with selecting the correct gear.
What else.... really not a lot to complain about, out of the box I am extremely happy and impressed with how it performed. Granted this was a very small field of competitors, but considering it was at least able to hold off similarly or higher end vehicles gives me a glimmer of hope that it's not the absolute slowest racecar ever built. It doesn't have to win, but not being the slowest would be an accomplishment! I had an absolute blast, and even with the flop and then busting the front a little, it was a ton of fun and I couldn't be happier with the vehicles performance.
cdemart2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2021
- Member Number
- 4528
- Messages
- 130
what I've learned over the years racing with cast knuckles, it's not if they're going to break it's when they're going to break, and that the better the weld only means that it'll break deeper into the cast. not that it's any stronger.
as far as that link crossmember, I'd replace it with. 250 tube or .120 slugged with aluminum bar stock. also move the link mounts out to the end of the crossmember to reduce leverage on that tube, and gusset the back like you mentioned.
rig looks awesome though!
as far as that link crossmember, I'd replace it with. 250 tube or .120 slugged with aluminum bar stock. also move the link mounts out to the end of the crossmember to reduce leverage on that tube, and gusset the back like you mentioned.
rig looks awesome though!
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,842
You need machined knuckles with a keyway for high steer. Welding will never work.
And:
And:
Yes it can. Stuff is here
Super Duty Knuckle Package With High Steer Arms
Factory 05+ super duty knuckles machined to accept BKOR billet high steer arms!! This Knuckle/High steer arm package is a super strong combo. We flat-top a set of factory 05+ super duty knuckles and drill the 6 bolt pattern to match our high steer arms. Our machining process leaves a keyway in...
bustedknuckleoffroad.com
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,842
If you're a baller :
bustedknuckleoffroad.com
Reid Super Duty Knuckle Package WITH high steer
This is the strongest 05+ super duty knuckle package on the market. REID 05+ super duty knuckles machined to accept BKOR keyed billet high steer arms!! This combo is the strongest option for guys running super duty Cs and knuckles. Our high steer arms key directly into the milled slot...
bustedknuckleoffroad.com
snivilous
Well-known member
Super Duty Knuckle Package With High Steer Arms
Factory 05+ super duty knuckles machined to accept BKOR billet high steer arms!! This Knuckle/High steer arm package is a super strong combo. We flat-top a set of factory 05+ super duty knuckles and drill the 6 bolt pattern to match our high steer arms. Our machining process leaves a keyway in...
If you're a baller :
Reid Super Duty Knuckle Package WITH high steer
This is the strongest 05+ super duty knuckle package on the market. REID 05+ super duty knuckles machined to accept BKOR keyed billet high steer arms!! This combo is the strongest option for guys running super duty Cs and knuckles. Our high steer arms key directly into the milled slot...
Except I have 99-04 axles, and from my very brief looking so far that may put me in a tight corner as far as options....
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,842
Too bad, these guys are waiting for your money.
Old school PBB dude too
www.weaverfabrication.com
Old school PBB dude too
1999-04 Ford Dana 50/60 – Weaver Fabrication
www.weaverfabrication.com
snivilous
Well-known member
PART 1:
I got a couple cool photos from a photographer (Kyle McArthur) from the Vernal Race:
This one is my favorite photo. The last racecar I built had absolutely horrible cornering ability and was the single biggest reason I chopped it off and decided to build a buggy. The fact I can now go around a corner without falling over is a huge win.
I got a couple cool photos from a photographer (Kyle McArthur) from the Vernal Race:
This one is my favorite photo. The last racecar I built had absolutely horrible cornering ability and was the single biggest reason I chopped it off and decided to build a buggy. The fact I can now go around a corner without falling over is a huge win.
snivilous
Well-known member
PART 2:
Moving on; I decided to strip the chassis down. I've been wanting to do this for awhile, but I wanted everything pretty dialed in first so I wouldn't end up grinding a bunch of paint off adding extra stuff down the line. After how well the buggy has been performing, the fact the transmission needs to come out, and having full access to the front crossmember to fix it would be nice, this seemed like the opportune moment. Over three nights I pulled everything off.
The whole harness actually came out without having to cut anything up, which I was worried about!
Drivetrain came out as one unit, perfectly balanced picking it up from the back of the heads.
I then weighed the chassis, and it's a fat pig at 617lbs!
And here is everything to build a buggy:
That catches us up to now! Still a couple things to pull off the chassis, bump stops, horn, mirrors, orbital. This is the first time in 5 years I think that I've had it torn all the way down, and I'm really stoked actually! My plan is to clean it up, add in gussets and reinforcements, add a couple upgrades, go in and second pass weld on anything that was missed or I couldn't reach before. Once all that is done I plan to get it sand blasted and then paint it.
I haven't been looking thoroughly, but so far the only major issue is the front crossmember. It did turn out to be bent, it's not bad but I'm undecided on bending it back or just cutting it out and replacing it.
I'm also thinking of welding in the middle removable cross member so I can brace all the bottom tubes off of each other, and then the transmission mount will be on bushings off of that middle cross member instead of the whole crossmember being on bushings. Having the crossmember removable has never simplified removing the drivetrain, so it's a pointless feature.
As far as all the other parts are concerned, a couple of them will get some upgrades and improvements. The wiring I will simplify again and try to make into a more cohesive harness (I may add a big plug between the engine and harness so I don't have to unplug all the sensors to remove the engine). Some of the line routing will get improved. I will fix the steering knuckle that's busted but will most likely retire the knuckles as spares and get some machined high steer ones. I'll probably get the axles sand blasted and painted while I'm at it too. I'll probably swap in the big engine while I'm here (I also think it was only running on 7 cylinders since one of the plug wires was barely held on I found out, so that's great!). The big question is the transmission, I either rebuild this one, send it out to get rebuilt, or buy a new one. Not sure which path to go down for that yet, and I'll get a new converter while I'm at it. I will also rebuild the bypasses and bump the compression valving. It all sounds like a lot, but at the end of the day the vast majority is small incremental improvements and mostly this is life extension and inspection so I hopefully don't have to do this again for a couple years. I don't plan to make any big changes because at this point it's running and handling good, and even though the rear of the thing is a jungle gym of tubes, I'd rather save my time from redesigning this and put that effort into designing a new chassis in the future and embracing what this one is and using it.
Moving on; I decided to strip the chassis down. I've been wanting to do this for awhile, but I wanted everything pretty dialed in first so I wouldn't end up grinding a bunch of paint off adding extra stuff down the line. After how well the buggy has been performing, the fact the transmission needs to come out, and having full access to the front crossmember to fix it would be nice, this seemed like the opportune moment. Over three nights I pulled everything off.
The whole harness actually came out without having to cut anything up, which I was worried about!
Drivetrain came out as one unit, perfectly balanced picking it up from the back of the heads.
I then weighed the chassis, and it's a fat pig at 617lbs!
And here is everything to build a buggy:
That catches us up to now! Still a couple things to pull off the chassis, bump stops, horn, mirrors, orbital. This is the first time in 5 years I think that I've had it torn all the way down, and I'm really stoked actually! My plan is to clean it up, add in gussets and reinforcements, add a couple upgrades, go in and second pass weld on anything that was missed or I couldn't reach before. Once all that is done I plan to get it sand blasted and then paint it.
I haven't been looking thoroughly, but so far the only major issue is the front crossmember. It did turn out to be bent, it's not bad but I'm undecided on bending it back or just cutting it out and replacing it.
I'm also thinking of welding in the middle removable cross member so I can brace all the bottom tubes off of each other, and then the transmission mount will be on bushings off of that middle cross member instead of the whole crossmember being on bushings. Having the crossmember removable has never simplified removing the drivetrain, so it's a pointless feature.
As far as all the other parts are concerned, a couple of them will get some upgrades and improvements. The wiring I will simplify again and try to make into a more cohesive harness (I may add a big plug between the engine and harness so I don't have to unplug all the sensors to remove the engine). Some of the line routing will get improved. I will fix the steering knuckle that's busted but will most likely retire the knuckles as spares and get some machined high steer ones. I'll probably get the axles sand blasted and painted while I'm at it too. I'll probably swap in the big engine while I'm here (I also think it was only running on 7 cylinders since one of the plug wires was barely held on I found out, so that's great!). The big question is the transmission, I either rebuild this one, send it out to get rebuilt, or buy a new one. Not sure which path to go down for that yet, and I'll get a new converter while I'm at it. I will also rebuild the bypasses and bump the compression valving. It all sounds like a lot, but at the end of the day the vast majority is small incremental improvements and mostly this is life extension and inspection so I hopefully don't have to do this again for a couple years. I don't plan to make any big changes because at this point it's running and handling good, and even though the rear of the thing is a jungle gym of tubes, I'd rather save my time from redesigning this and put that effort into designing a new chassis in the future and embracing what this one is and using it.
snivilous
Well-known member
PART 3:
Which on that note, since I was tearing everything down I decided now was the time to buy a 3D scanner that I had been looking at. This is called the Einstar and costs $950!
I just got it yesterday so did my first scan ever with one of my seats.
And here is the file imported into SolidWorks:
I am super excited for this! With the buggy torn down my plan is to scan all of the components so I can build a duplicate in CAD that is identical to the real thing. Moving forward this is huge because I can design an entire vehicle and scan all the parts into it and know everything will fit, all the brackets I need, how hard is to remove the transmission, how's the suspension move, etc. before ever building anything. And granted, I could do that before, but it will be a lot easier being able to import parts into CAD instead of measuring with a tape measure to get a rough shitty blob model. I have high hopes for adding this technology to my arsenal and really stepping my game up. After how much time it took to build the buggy, I wasn't sure I'd ever do that again, but if I can design and visualize every component of the vehicle and then order all the tubes and brackets as a CNC cut flat pack and glue it together, and then I would be at the same point I am now with a chassis sitting here and a bunch of parts that just need to be bolted in. All of the files I scan will (have) been added to the CAD resources library on the forum as well.
Anyways, that was my tangent into the next cool technology that will be used on the buggy and my future builds and I think wraps up this update!
Which on that note, since I was tearing everything down I decided now was the time to buy a 3D scanner that I had been looking at. This is called the Einstar and costs $950!
I just got it yesterday so did my first scan ever with one of my seats.
And here is the file imported into SolidWorks:
I am super excited for this! With the buggy torn down my plan is to scan all of the components so I can build a duplicate in CAD that is identical to the real thing. Moving forward this is huge because I can design an entire vehicle and scan all the parts into it and know everything will fit, all the brackets I need, how hard is to remove the transmission, how's the suspension move, etc. before ever building anything. And granted, I could do that before, but it will be a lot easier being able to import parts into CAD instead of measuring with a tape measure to get a rough shitty blob model. I have high hopes for adding this technology to my arsenal and really stepping my game up. After how much time it took to build the buggy, I wasn't sure I'd ever do that again, but if I can design and visualize every component of the vehicle and then order all the tubes and brackets as a CNC cut flat pack and glue it together, and then I would be at the same point I am now with a chassis sitting here and a bunch of parts that just need to be bolted in. All of the files I scan will (have) been added to the CAD resources library on the forum as well.
Anyways, that was my tangent into the next cool technology that will be used on the buggy and my future builds and I think wraps up this update!
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
this is too cool, this is the second thread i saw where someone is scanning prp seats with a 3 d scanner. 
snivilous
Well-known member
Was the first person also me in a different thread?this is too cool, this is the second thread i saw where someone is scanning prp seats with a 3 d scanner.
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
maybe lol
snivilous
Well-known member
I thought it was redundant to post it here too, but if you aren't into CAD stuff then why would you ever click on the other thread. Posting the scanning here might reach a broader audience (from 3 people to 5 people) and maybe inspire someone to use all this new cheap technology to do something cool!maybe lol
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
i am totaly into it. do not understand one bit of it at all, but love what can be done. i saw one of them scanners in a APP for the phone, never tried it.
Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
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Any thoughts on the crossmember possibly breaking during the race, but prior to your fence post escapade? I'm wondering if the crossmember started letting go during the race and that is why you thought something was happening in the rear. The front and rear would feel disconnected.
every bump you hit it is doing this. you are asking a lot from that lower crossmember and frame tube.
or something like this X. we added that to ol’ whitey when we were prepping it for andy brown. he was experiencing something similar. it solved the problem.
a combination of the X and vertical would be ideal.
or something like this X. we added that to ol’ whitey when we were prepping it for andy brown. he was experiencing something similar. it solved the problem.
a combination of the X and vertical would be ideal.
snivilous
Well-known member
Certainly possible, maybe even likely. Would explain the feelings I was getting and if the left side of the tube had already broken free then on the long corner the other side might have cracked allowing it to rotate back enough which is when it whipped to the side and tried to roll. Then the fence punctured the tire.
snivilous
Well-known member
That's interesting looking, thanks for the pictures! I've wanted to beef up the front, as you pointed out it's extremely under supported considering the link loads, the engine cantilever, and all the shock loads are effectively transferred through four welds. I'll see what I can do beyond just adding gussets.every bump you hit it is doing this. you are asking a lot from that lower crossmember and frame tube.
or something like this X. we added that to ol’ whitey when we were prepping it for andy brown. he was experiencing something similar. it solved the problem.
a combination of the X and vertical would be ideal.
Pickuptrucker
Well-known member
Awesome pics of the race! Nice work keep at it!
snivilous
Well-known member
Figured I'd throw these up so if there's something I'm missing someone can catch it before I drop the coin. After I broke the knuckle I looked around at options, and no one really supports 99-04 and bolt on high steer I don't want to do. I scanned the axle and drew up a knuckle, my local guy I use to machine parts said $4k for a pair which was too much. I had a buddy that recently got a big run of parts made in China, and I had him grab a quote for the knuckles and that dude said $1600, which is ballpark what the other options I was looking at are. I made a lot of tweaks today so expect the next quote to be a bit more, but sub $2k for a pair of knuckles out of 7075-T6 is worth trying for me. Pictures, with more info below:
As I said, knuckles are 7075-T6. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go that path since it makes them effectively one and done since 7075 can't be welded, but since 7075 is nearly twice the strength of 6061 I thought that was a fair trade off and it's hard to properly repair aluminum for a high stress environment.
The current weight with inserts is sub 15.5lbs. All high load bolts (steering tie rod and brake caliper) have press in steel sleeves (off the shelf and cheap from McMaster). The unit bearing does not have steel inserts due to the low wall thickness on those fasteners to begin with. On that note, the unit bearing has a steel sleeve that is a light press on the bearing, so effectively increases the unit bearing boss, this allows for the hub bore to be increased and allow my RCVs to be removed without touching the boot---currently I have to remove the boot inside the hub assembly to get the axle in and out so that alleviates that.
The brake caliper is raised slightly. I scanned a Camaro 6-piston Brembo from a friend but couldn't get it to fit, so for now I'm sticking with the stock super duty brakes with a potential plan to create an adapter plate (like Busted Knuckle does, but less janky) once I find a different caliper---not that I've had issues with the stock calipers yet.
The steering knuckle is obviously integrated to the knuckle. There are two mounting holes, the outer hole is the same position as my Artec high steer arms I already have. The inner position is 2" inboard which is roughly the position with some other tweaks to get the ~45deg of steering the RCVs can handle. With that said, due to my shock mounts I can't use all that steering so that inboard mounting hole is for down the line options since I had the space. The Artec steering arm I analyzed to a failure load of 24k lbf (as I recall, though maybe there's a FOS I put on that), so my analysis for steering has been using 24k lbf. This is the load that the Artec arm itself would begin to fail (not the welding or cast like failed on me). The other load values I analyzed was a frontal and vertical load of 15k lbf, which is based on previous suspension design loads I've used of 10G frontal and 5G vertical. In this case I assumed each wheel is supporting 1500 lbf (6000 lbf total vehicle weight, which is 20% conservative), then times 10G to get 15k lbf and I used that in both load directions to be safe. The 24k lbf steering (effectively a lateral/side load) is the highest stress state with the base of the arm as expected approaching yield but being fine.
The internal (CV area) sizing is all larger than stock to try and allow as much room to access stuff as possible. Mounting positions of everything (minus rotational position of the caliper) is identical to the stock knuckle so it should be a direct bolt in. The only thing NOT in the model at the moment is a steering stop, which I plan to have be an additional removable component so it can be replaced/adjusted as time goes on without needing to mess with the knuckle itself. The steering stop will go near the stock position and probably consist of just a tapped hole and flat mounting face on the knuckle side, and a cylinder with a wrench flat and stud for the stop itself.
If anyone has any recommendations, critique, or good reason to not try this I'm all ears. Right now I'm hoping to get it sent out for quote and presumably order it within the next day or two so I can hopefully see it by early January.
As I said, knuckles are 7075-T6. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go that path since it makes them effectively one and done since 7075 can't be welded, but since 7075 is nearly twice the strength of 6061 I thought that was a fair trade off and it's hard to properly repair aluminum for a high stress environment.
The current weight with inserts is sub 15.5lbs. All high load bolts (steering tie rod and brake caliper) have press in steel sleeves (off the shelf and cheap from McMaster). The unit bearing does not have steel inserts due to the low wall thickness on those fasteners to begin with. On that note, the unit bearing has a steel sleeve that is a light press on the bearing, so effectively increases the unit bearing boss, this allows for the hub bore to be increased and allow my RCVs to be removed without touching the boot---currently I have to remove the boot inside the hub assembly to get the axle in and out so that alleviates that.
The brake caliper is raised slightly. I scanned a Camaro 6-piston Brembo from a friend but couldn't get it to fit, so for now I'm sticking with the stock super duty brakes with a potential plan to create an adapter plate (like Busted Knuckle does, but less janky) once I find a different caliper---not that I've had issues with the stock calipers yet.
The steering knuckle is obviously integrated to the knuckle. There are two mounting holes, the outer hole is the same position as my Artec high steer arms I already have. The inner position is 2" inboard which is roughly the position with some other tweaks to get the ~45deg of steering the RCVs can handle. With that said, due to my shock mounts I can't use all that steering so that inboard mounting hole is for down the line options since I had the space. The Artec steering arm I analyzed to a failure load of 24k lbf (as I recall, though maybe there's a FOS I put on that), so my analysis for steering has been using 24k lbf. This is the load that the Artec arm itself would begin to fail (not the welding or cast like failed on me). The other load values I analyzed was a frontal and vertical load of 15k lbf, which is based on previous suspension design loads I've used of 10G frontal and 5G vertical. In this case I assumed each wheel is supporting 1500 lbf (6000 lbf total vehicle weight, which is 20% conservative), then times 10G to get 15k lbf and I used that in both load directions to be safe. The 24k lbf steering (effectively a lateral/side load) is the highest stress state with the base of the arm as expected approaching yield but being fine.
The internal (CV area) sizing is all larger than stock to try and allow as much room to access stuff as possible. Mounting positions of everything (minus rotational position of the caliper) is identical to the stock knuckle so it should be a direct bolt in. The only thing NOT in the model at the moment is a steering stop, which I plan to have be an additional removable component so it can be replaced/adjusted as time goes on without needing to mess with the knuckle itself. The steering stop will go near the stock position and probably consist of just a tapped hole and flat mounting face on the knuckle side, and a cylinder with a wrench flat and stud for the stop itself.
If anyone has any recommendations, critique, or good reason to not try this I'm all ears. Right now I'm hoping to get it sent out for quote and presumably order it within the next day or two so I can hopefully see it by early January.
Last edited:
Billybadass411
Red Skull Member
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As a 99-04 axle owner with a weaver fab style, keyed bolt on steering arms and full hydro, I’m interested in this. Would these knuckles be one off or something other people could get their hands on.
Either way you have my interest.
Either way you have my interest.
snivilous
Well-known member
My plan was a one off, maybe a spare set. Though you're not the first person to ask about getting some, so I might do a small production run if I don't have any issues with my set.
Billybadass411
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If you decide to do a small run of them , please let me know.
Awesome thread btw.
Awesome thread btw.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
Since many do the ball joint delete with shoulder bolts incorporate that hardware.
Make the steering arm bolt on modular out of steel so holes can be drilled wherever and changed out and double shear welded on however. Make a big support channel for the arm to key into. Say 1”x2” true bar as the steering arm. Avoid threads and try to use through holes for bolts and nuts.
Make the steering arm bolt on modular out of steel so holes can be drilled wherever and changed out and double shear welded on however. Make a big support channel for the arm to key into. Say 1”x2” true bar as the steering arm. Avoid threads and try to use through holes for bolts and nuts.