Rapey Snap-On Tools

[muddyrover]

Yeah, I'm intrigued but not sure I buy it. Maybe he's just explaining it wrong and is trying to say that 12pt results in less PSI on the points of contact with the bolt for a given torque

You should be able to use the longest floppiest extension and it shouldn't affect torque as seen by the fastener, just the amount of wind-up it takes to get there (impacts are a very different story, obviously).

You apply X to the wrench. The extension resists the wrench. The thing below the extension resists that.

I was referring to a dog bone extension.

 

[M92PV4U]

pound for pound yes.

Good to know. So next time I'll just chop the socket in half and add hw tubing to the middle.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Good to know. So next time I'll just chop the socket in half and add hw tubing to the middle.

 

[M92PV4U]

 

[Steve300xcw]

We've made a pile of them for putting bands on culverts.

 

[Coyote]

For tightening column bolts in hard to reach places.

 

[speed bump]

Lots of special in this thread. For reference here is a cheap socket that actually does off corner engagement.

 

[DMG]

Lots of special in this thread. For reference here is a cheap socket that actually does off corner engagement.

Very impressive.

 

[M92PV4U]

It's the difference that you can't see that makes the difference .

 

[arse_sidewards]

Tubes are more resistant to windup than solid shafts?

Mostly because you'd be increasing OD.

Just like an axle shaft that bit at the middle isn't doing much

 

[arse_sidewards]

We've made a pile of them for putting bands on culverts.

I made one for Ford coil spring radius arm bolts.

 

[muddyrover]

I’m old enough to remember when 6 point sockets were peasant ‘s tools.

The farther you can safely grip to the point the less shear force and wasted torque is applied through the bolt. These were the shit back in the day. I’ve had them since 1995, and I bought them used for $25. They have a 1984 date code.

Quality 6 pt Flank drive has largely made them redundant/ obsolete. They still are the best on 12 point bolts.

Still available on your local snap-on truck for $250 or so.

 

[DMG]

I’m old enough to remember when 6 point sockets were peasant ‘s tools.

The farther you can safely grip to the point the less shear force and wasted torque is applied through the bolt. These were the shit back in the day. I’ve had them since 1995, and I bought them used for $25.

Quality 6 pt Flank drive has largely made them redundant/ obsolete. They still are the best on 12 point bolts.

Still available on your local snap-on truck for $250 or so.

Plus there are still a lot of 12 point bolts on vehicles.

 

[Gtrplyr78]

DMG and Arse need a wrench off, so we can get back to tool pron.

Use what you got, now you slacking fawkers lets see some new SnapOn/other tool purchases, I got a few small things coming via Scamazon.

Glue gun that uses M18 batteries, flexible funnel, and 2 packs of 2 headlamps - one set for me, other set for my mechanic friend.

They were $13.99 just a few days ago...

Amazon.com

 

[Steve300xcw]

nothin fancy, but these 2 wrenches have saved me a lot of work

 

[[486]]

nothin fancy, but these 2 wrenches have saved me a lot of work

I've never had an 8mm fastener that the 5/16" wrench hasn't fit onto

8mm is .315"
5/16 is .3125"

that little nugget works the opposite way with allen wrenches, use an 8mm in a 5/16 head bolt to tighten up the slop a little bit

 

[Steve300xcw]

I've never had an 8mm fastener that the 5/16" wrench hasn't fit onto

8mm is .315"
5/16 is .3125"

that little nugget works the opposite way with allen wrenches, use an 8mm in a 5/16 head bolt to tighten up the slop a little bit

If those come out. Its on driveline bolts that already have the bolt heads slightly rounded off, and are locked up. One of them will fit better than the other. and thumping on the bolt head while cranking on them keeps me from welding nuts and/or drilling them out.

 

[barrelroll]

Does anyone know if Williams sells replacement shanks, or will warranty them?

Snapon shanks fit, my snappy guy may have forgotten to charge me once or twice when he's swapped them out of a Williams handle.

 

[TrailTamer]

Since you care enough to discuss it, I think you might like some snapon stuff, specifically screwdrivers

Am I just having bad luck with screwdrivers, specifically #2 Phillips?

I broke my Snap-On Phillips #2 screwdriver several time.

The last one I had it repaired on the tool truck, and it broke on the first screw I put it on. Sheared the tip clean off flush in the screw. It sit in my tool bag somewhere. I lost any faith in it.

Snap-On = Good tools, so I don't need these extra screwdrivers taking up space in my tool box "for in case" right?
I fumbled and had to get my extras (which are nearly exclusively cheap chinese) back to finish the job.

I bought ICON's clone of Snap-On screwdriver set. So far so good....

Applying torque is applying torque. If it reduces torque required to loosen, it should reduce torque required to tighten.

Unless something is being lost in the translation.

My engineer mind cannot compute. 12 or 6 points doesn't matter, as torque is torque. I think we got carried away on that one... The distance, or radius, from fastener's center line is greater on 12 points that's for sure. But again, torque is torque, and the 12pt socket on 6pt fastener have less contact area and far less forgiving if corroded smaller.

I had success with hammering a 1 size smaller 12pt socket on f'd up fasteners when I couldn't with a same size 6pt socket.

 

[DMG]

Am I just having bad luck with screwdrivers, specifically #2 Phillips?

I broke my Snap-On Phillips #2 screwdriver several time.

The last one I had it repaired on the tool truck, and it broke on the first screw I put it on. Sheared the tip clean off flush in the screw. It sit in my tool bag somewhere. I lost any faith in it.

Snap-On = Good tools, so I don't need these extra screwdrivers taking up space in my tool box "for in case" right?
I fumbled and had to get my extras (which are nearly exclusively cheap chinese) back to finish the job.

I bought ICON's clone of Snap-On screwdriver set. So far so good....


My engineer mind cannot compute. 12 or 6 points doesn't matter, as torque is torque. I think we got carried away on that one... The distance, or radius, from fastener's center line is greater on 12 points that's for sure. But again, torque is torque, and the 12pt socket on 6pt fastener have less contact area and far less forgiving if corroded smaller.

I had success with hammering a 1 size smaller 12pt socket on f'd up fasteners when I couldn't with a same size 6pt socket.

I still have the snapon screwdrivers I bought 20 years ago. I don’t use them as a punch or prybar. I have never broke one. Even using the hex at the top of the shank with a wrench.

Either quality is slipping, you are unlucky or you have stronger hands than Michelle Obama.

 

[xr-nut]

nothin fancy, but these 2 wrenches have saved me a lot of work

they're the same dont ya know. that little side bolt battery fuckery that gm used is not an 8mm. ive been round and round with my last wrench and my current one. see below. sure it fits, it even works. but its not an 8.

I've never had an 8mm fastener that the 5/16" wrench hasn't fit onto

8mm is .315"
5/16 is .3125"

that little nugget works the opposite way with allen wrenches, use an 8mm in a 5/16 head bolt to tighten up the slop a little bit

 

[Steve300xcw]

they're the same dont ya know.

To be fair I'm sure a 6 point box end wrench of any decent brand would work just fine. Thats just what I happen to have

 

[DMG]

nothin fancy, but these 2 wrenches have saved me a lot of work

The purpose of these wrenches requires thin wall wrenches and sockets.

 

[muddyrover]

Maybe I am saying it wrong…. But what it gets at is tight, poorly designed modern or old 6 points are bad, historic 12 point better, engineered not poorly copied flank drive 6 and 12 are better. Why do you think all old socket sets are 12 pt and not 6? Because it was easier to broach a 12pt? Or was it to help out all those breaker bar users? For what I did in the Navy we only torqued with 12 point, but that was before flank drive was mainstream. I guess the real question is if Chinese flank copies are just for looks or was engineering done.


Here is a copy and paste from garage journal of someone explaining it differently.

Lots of wives tales on this subject based on old timers who were using tools that have been far superseded today. The modern 6 & 12pt sockets and wrenches perform far different to years past. Most tools we own are copied designs but a few great tool co's like Bonney (my favourite in this area), SO, Koken, Stahlwille and others have extensively looked at the science behind turning a hex shaped fastener. The way a tool directs forces through the hex whether sending force across the hex (not good) or directing force in a circular motion (good) is all directly related to how & where the tool contacts the hex. For maximum energy going into turning the hex the closer the contact point is to the tips of the hex the better, but this can be problematic too, as that is the weakest part of the fastener so the closest you can 'safely' be the better. Specialty sockets like Metrinch and others are more of a 'last resort' option as they send forces across the fastener in an attempt to turn it. This subject is far from simple and the more I read about the science of turning fasteners the less I concluded I knew at all.

 

[DMG]

So it reduces side loading of the fastener when turning? I may try todo an experiment tomorrow with 6 and 12 points.


As a possibly related aside, why aren’t ratchet wrenches 6 point?

 

[M92PV4U]

So it reduces side loading of the fastener when turning? I may try todo an experiment tomorrow with 6 and 12 points.


As a possibly related aside, why aren’t ratchet wrenches 6 point?

I have some that are, I'll try to get pictures.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

I have some that are, I'll try to get pictures.

Craftsman's? Those and some (I think) only sold for a short time Pittsburgs from HF are the only ones I"ve seen.

 

[M92PV4U]

Craftsman's? Those and some (I think) only sold for a short time Pittsburgs from HF are the only ones I"ve seen.

Yes. Craftsman, but I think the ⁵/16 ⅜ snapon is also 6pt.

 

[muddyrover]

I have a gut feeling if you were to torque to spec a 2" or larger bolt with old school straight cut 6 point and un-torque with a snapon flank drive you may see a measurable difference with a quality digital torque meter... then repeat the reverse. You may see it on something smaller if the 6 point really sucks. Modern SO flank 6 and 12 should be nearly equal, with the 12 possibly a little better at getting the force farther towards the tip safely.

All the bigger turbine stuff I have worked on in recent years has been 12 point bolt, presumably for the same reason.

 

[muddyrover]

So it reduces side loading of the fastener when turning? I may try todo an experiment tomorrow with 6 and 12 points.


As a possibly related aside, why aren’t ratchet wrenches 6 point?

Yes side load/ cross load/shear load.... however you want to think about it.

6 point double box ratchet wrenches suck, I was issued some stamped steel proto ones as company tools and I broke them with a 6' piece of rigid so I could get gearwrenches.