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Rant thread

Hydromaster said:
Yes.
And that is not what you said before.

As a permit holder.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a legal gun free zone sign or whatever your state requires legally posted.. I can still walk in with my concealed gun. Legally.

If by somehow, the owner or their agent was to become alerted that I was concealed caring, and they can ask me to remove my gun from the premises, If I failed to do so, they could call the police and have me charged with trespassing.
Loss of permit, only if charged with the trespass and found guilty.


Law-enforcement is usually reluctant to write a ticket on anything less than criminal trespass.

You’re going to actually lock up somebody’s weapon in your safe? You? Mr. Liability.?


or do you think somebody is actually going to let you have their gun from them and lock it up that’s not happening.

And you didn’t answer my question
Click to expand...

Go to a federal building with your concealed carry and see what happens.
 
Hydromaster said:
Connor, you let everybody know that you know, you’re not allowed to carry in a federal building,
Good boy!

See how smart he is.
Click to expand...

I figured you'd like to go for the gold... Try it in a School or a State Building...
 
How about on a plane?( commercial)

And you were wrong, and then you went and looked up the “laws”.

Good thing now yer smarter fer et.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
That could work for you. But, you do realize that you'd be breaking th law if you do it on a private property where it is posted no concealed carry right?
Click to expand...

You are wrong again

I would need to be informed by the owner or the agent, and only after being informed, and I refused to comply then they could call the police and have me charged with the trespass .



I knew there was something sew I looked it up
If you have a permit and is good in Montana

Fyi
A permit is required to carry concealed in portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that have been restricted. HB-102 was signed into law on February 18, 2021, and goes into effect immediately. It eliminated many of the prior gun-free zones in the state.
I’ll post this from everybody else except you because you already know this.
Places off-limits even with a permit/license

  • School buildings, except with prior permission [Mont. Code Ann. § 45-8-361];
  • Montana University System campuses except by trained law enforcement or security officers (per the December 1, 2021, First Judicial District ruling);
  • Correctional, detention, and treatment facilities operated by or contracted with the department of corrections;
  • Secure treatment facilities operated by the department of public health and human services;
  • Detention facilities and secure areas of law enforcement facilities owned and operated by a city or county;
  • At or beyond a security screening checkpoint regulated by the transportation security administration in a publicly owned, commercial airport;
  • Buildings owned and occupied by the United States;
  • Military reservations owned and managed by the United States;
  • Private property where the owner of the property or the person who possesses or is in control of the property, including a tenant or lessee of the property, expressly prohibits firearms;
  • Courtrooms or areas of courthouses in use by court personnel pursuant to an order of a justice of the peace or judge;
[per HB-102 signed into law on February 18, 2021]
I’m sure you saw the private property part but that’s just it.
They gave people some wiggle room, so it’s not this big huge Karen situation.
What if I didn’t see your sign for whatever reason? What if I can’t read? that’s why you have to go over verbally tell them before u can get the lawn involved.
 
Last edited:
Hydromaster said:
You are wrong again

I would need to be informed by the owner or the agent, and only after being informed, and I refused to comply then they could call the police and have me charged with the trespass .



I knew there was something sew I looked it up
If you have a permit and is good in Montana

Fyi
A permit is required to carry concealed in portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that have been restricted. HB-102 was signed into law on February 18, 2021, and goes into effect immediately. It eliminated many of the prior gun-free zones in the state.
I’ll post this from everybody else except you because you already know this.
Places off-limits even with a permit/license

  • School buildings, except with prior permission [Mont. Code Ann. § 45-8-361];
  • Montana University System campuses except by trained law enforcement or security officers (per the December 1, 2021, First Judicial District ruling);
  • Correctional, detention, and treatment facilities operated by or contracted with the department of corrections;
  • Secure treatment facilities operated by the department of public health and human services;
  • Detention facilities and secure areas of law enforcement facilities owned and operated by a city or county;
  • At or beyond a security screening checkpoint regulated by the transportation security administration in a publicly owned, commercial airport;
  • Buildings owned and occupied by the United States;
  • Military reservations owned and managed by the United States;
  • Private property where the owner of the property or the person who possesses or is in control of the property, including a tenant or lessee of the property, expressly prohibits firearms;
  • Courtrooms or areas of courthouses in use by court personnel pursuant to an order of a justice of the peace or judge;
[per HB-102 signed into law on February 18, 2021]
I’m sure you saw the private property part but that’s just it.
They gave people some wiggle room, so it’s not this big huge Karen situation.
What if I didn’t see your sign for whatever reason? What if I can’t read? that’s why you have to go over verbally tell them before u can get the lawn involved.
Click to expand...

You didn't read did you???? Read the Bold Italicized sentence... We are not talking about Law Enforcement people. We are talking about you and you employees on some clients' property. So, as I've stated before any person who owns, possesses or is in control of the property including a tenant or lessee can expressly prohibit your firearm rights on the property Montana State Law. So, as I've been saying not exactly a good policy for your company to tell your employees to strap on a gun without first consulting the gun policy of your clients or commercial or residential.

I sure don't want some yahoo on my property with a gun-- what if he mistakes me doing something in the dark in the morning or night as a threat and I take a round in the ass... Sounds like a bad plan to me.
 
You seem to be very excitable, and have a hard time comprehending things.

1. I wasn’t talking about law-enforcement .

2. Yes, just like I said, the owner or their agent can enforce a no gun policy

3. I don’t tell my employees to strap on a gun.
if they or myself choose to exercise their constitutional rights that is up to them.

4. Now we’re swinging back to clients and not being a patron in a store.?
there has to be a sign on or by the door and then you need to be verbally told of the policy before law-enforcement can be involved.



5. Your opinion on people who carry is flawed and childish.
People who carry are not shooting at noises in the dark. There shooting, when some moron, like yourself, decides to take it upon themselves to threaten them with death or great bodily harm.

6 I see you’re very protective of your basement and that’s your right


You are naïve.
 
Hydromaster said:
You seem to be very excitable, and have a hard time comprehending things.

1. I wasn’t talking about law-enforcement .

2. Yes, just like I said, the owner or their agent can enforce a no gun policy

3. I don’t tell my employees to strap on a gun.
if they or myself choose to exercise their constitutional rights that is up to them.

4. Now we’re swinging back to clients and not being a patron in a store.?
there has to be a sign on or by the door and then you need to be verbally told of the policy before law-enforcement can be involved.



5. Your opinion on people who carry is flawed and childish.
People who carry are not shooting at noises in the dark. There shooting, when some moron, like yourself, decides to take it upon themselves to threaten them with death or great bodily harm.

6 I see you’re very protective of your basement and that’s your right


You are naïve.
Click to expand...
do you always change your position when wrong?
 
As a permit holder.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a legal gun free zone sign or whatever your state requires legally posted.. I can still walk in with my concealed gun. Legally. This you...

This is the law you stated...

  • Private property where the owner of the property or the person who possesses or is in control of the property, including a tenant or lessee of the property, expressly prohibits firearms;
Funny, that seems to say the exact opposite of what you are claiming in the above statement.

So, unless you've changed from that above statement you're screwed???
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
As a permit holder.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a legal gun free zone sign or whatever your state requires legally posted.. I can still walk in with my concealed gun. Legally. This you...

This is the law you stated...

  • Private property where the owner of the property or the person who possesses or is in control of the property, including a tenant or lessee of the property, expressly prohibits firearms;
Funny, that seems to say the exact opposite of what you are claiming in the above statement.

So, unless you've changed from that above statement you're screwed???
Click to expand...
i’m not screwed at all and I’m not wrong.
That is a fact.

The way you pick and choose is fascinating to me.

I posted exactly that, and that’s exactly true, and you conveniently ignore and leave out a little nuance of the law that I have posted over and over again.


if you choose to ignore it, that’s on you. Everybody else has read it over and over again.

Yes, you have legally required signage.
And somebody comes in to your store caring
concealed. The problem is you can’t prove they read your sign.

somehow you become aware of this and call the police.

The police will tell them that they either have to remove their firearm from the premises or they have to leave refusal end up in a ticket

Or somehow you become aware of it and you tell them that guns are not allowed at this point. If they refuse to comply with your request, you can call the police.,
The police will show up. They all explain the lot of both of you, and again the police will inform of the choice to leave or be ticketed.

Just because you have a sign up and somebody enters with their weapon, this doesn’t mean they immediately get ticketed and lose their rights to carry.

The only part of this that is a right is the right to bear arms. Private property laws are just that, laws.
 
Last edited:
How do you feel about knives?
I always carry one of those two
Small tango. It’s quite and Good for slashing and sticking pigs.
 
Hydromaster said:
i’m not screwed at all and I’m not wrong.
That is a fact.

The way you pick and choose is fascinating to me.

I posted exactly that, and that’s exactly true, and you conveniently ignore and leave out a little nuance of the law that I have posted over and over again.


if you choose to ignore it, that’s on you. Everybody else has read it over and over again.

Yes, you have legally required signage.
And somebody comes in to your store caring
concealed. The problem is you can’t prove they read your sign.

somehow you become aware of this and call the police.

The police will tell them that they either have to remove their firearm from the premises or they have to leave refusal end up in a ticket

Or somehow you become aware of it and you tell them that guns are not allowed at this point. If they refuse to comply with your request, you can call the police.,
The police will show up. They all explain the lot of both of you, and again the police will inform of the choice to leave or be ticketed.

Just because you have a sign up and somebody enters with their weapon, this doesn’t mean they immediately get ticketed and lose their rights to carry.

The only part of this that is a right is the right to bear arms. Private property laws are just that, laws.
Click to expand...

You said your concealed carry permit gives you the right to carry anywhere--- I stated that a concealed carry permit doesn't give you universal rights to ignore the owner of property about their gun regulations.

As usual when proven wrong you've straw manned the argument into something completely different.

Face the simple fact that arming your snow-plow jockeys will badly for your company if you willing violate your clients wishes and a shoot out occurs.

Nothing more than that was my claim.
 
The facts are you are one goofy son of a bitch.

If you have a hard time comprehending what I have said, that’s on you.

I have stated facts.
You have a hard time differentiating between a right and a law and how they work.

maybe you need to stop eating the paint chips.


Again And yes, I can ignore the sign on the door. I can even point to it and take a picture as I walk in with my gun (I usually ignore them), concealed carry or open carry and without a permit.
Fact, and I haven’t broken any laws or violated anyone’s rights.

Also, I do not need a permit to carry concealed or openly in the state of Montana.
You only need to be over 21 and be able to legally own a firearm.
Getting one just opens doors and allows you to travel to other states and still carry.

Again,
Regardless of any criteria, or the lack of the sign on the door, or there could be a sign at the entry.
There isn’t an issue until I refuse to remove my weapon from the premises by request of the owner or their agent.

Now you go call the popo.

They will come talk to both of us. They’ll explain the situation and again I’ll be given the opportunity to either leave or be ticketed.

And that’s how it goes down.

That was so simple even a moron, like yourself should be able to understand it.

It’s been my position and what I have stated the whole time.

The liability insurance you can get a rider.
Their rather cheap.
Got it?
 
Last edited:
Ps
The same laws or rights would also extend to any employees.

I certainly wouldn’t go into a home of a goofy son of a bitch like you to fix your furnace, in the basement without carrying a weapon.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
www.thehrdirector.com

Are employers liable if an employee assaults someone? | theHRD

Are employers liable if an employee assaults someone?
www.thehrdirector.com www.thehrdirector.com

In your case you promoting arming yourself in the work place and let's say it says in your company handbook-- X, is allowed to carry a weapon with the proper permit for self-defense. You are now putting the company policy as the right to carry a weapon even if your job description doesn't necessarily warrant it. This means you've created a company policy and thus armed your employees. Which usually ends up with you being liable for their stupidity. Especially, if they aren't trained properly or have lost their right to carry a weapon in this case. It is no different then if you fail to make sure your drivers with CDL's pass their medical and drug tests when they are required to do so. If you let that slide you're on the hook as the company. And the same is true for this case too.

Walgreens in Tenn is getting sued for an employee that shot a shoplifter 7 times in a parking lot... I just gave the link it is the one that says MSN.
Click to expand...

My employees are around "weapons" all day, every day.

Trucks
Chain saws
Mowers
Sharp mower blades
Trimmers
Hedge trimmers
Hedge shears
Pruners
Loppers
Knives
Shovels
Hammers
Screwdrivers
Pitchforks
Wrenches
Torch
Stapler
Pencil
Scissors
Paperclips
Fists
Feet

The list is endless. And you're stating I have to remove all weapons from the workplace to eliminate my liability.

You're so ignorant you don't even know how ignorant you are.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
What do you think your Corporate Liability will be if one of your Armed Employee(s) shoot up a parking lot
Click to expand...

Could care less if they shoot up a parking lot. Not sure why they would...did the asphalt attack them? Concrete?

FelixstoweF.2 said:
He/She/They get all paranoid one night and think some homeless guy is trying to rob them?
Click to expand...

Why do you assume that because someone carries a firearm they are going to shoot someone?

Sometimes...actually data shows MOST of the time, legal firearm owners are able to prevent bad guys from doing bad stuff by letting the bad guy know they have a firearm.

You should try doing some research.

And on the flip side, what happens if one of my armed employees prevents a rape/murder by using his/her firearm?

It's amazing that your degree in philosophy caused you to have such a limited ability to think critically...you have a one track mind basically. And it's usually communism.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
Obviously, the right to tell you not to carry on their premise seems to be a serious problem for you. The right not insure you also seems to be a problem.
FelixstoweF.2 said:
Actually, the right to determine what happens on your property is very much property owner's right. As long as they state it visibly that no guns will be allowed on their property you cannot carry your gun onto it and you cannot do a damn thing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


In my state, there is no law that states a property owner can restrict firearm possession on private property.

However, a property owner can have someone charged with trespass.
 
JD Mark said:
In my state, there is no law that states a property owner can restrict firearm possession on private property.

However, a property owner can have someone charged with trespass.
Click to expand...

I looked it up , Montana is the same as meatchicken on this.

No Weapons Allowed" Signs Enforced?
Are "No Weapons Allowed" signs enforced in Montana? If yes, violating the sign would be considered to be an offense If no, violating the sign would not be considered an offense.

No. "No Weapons Allowed" signs are not enforced in Montana.
 
JD Mark said:
My employees are around "weapons" all day, every day.

Trucks
Chain saws
Mowers
Sharp mower blades
Trimmers
Hedge trimmers
Hedge shears
Pruners
Loppers
Knives
Shovels
Hammers
Screwdrivers
Pitchforks
Wrenches
Torch
Stapler
Pencil
Scissors
Paperclips
Fists
Feet

The list is endless. And you're stating I have to remove all weapons from the workplace to eliminate my liability.

You're so ignorant you don't even know how ignorant you are.
Click to expand...
The is a perfect example of a straw man argument...
 
Hydromaster said:
Yes.
And that is not what you said before.
What you said before was wrong.


As a permit holder.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a legal gun free zone sign or whatever your state requires legally posted.. I can still walk in with my concealed gun. Legally.

If by somehow, the owner or their agent was to become alerted that I was concealed caring, and they can ask me to remove my gun from the premises, If I failed to do so, they could call the police and have me charged with trespassing.
Loss of permit, only if charged with the trespass and found guilty.
Law-enforcement is usually reluctant to write the trespass ticket and we all would agree to leave your business never to return.
You would loose customers.

Still not a right, but a law made by man.



You’re going to actually lock up somebody’s weapon in your safe? You? Mr. Liability.?


or do you think somebody is actually going to let you take their gun from them and lock it up?that’s not happening.

And you didn’t answer my question
Click to expand...

Whoops, guess I should have kept reading before posting the same thing.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
You didn't read did you???? Read the Bold Italicized sentence... We are not talking about Law Enforcement people. We are talking about you and you employees on some clients' property. So, as I've stated before any person who owns, possesses or is in control of the property including a tenant or lessee can expressly prohibit your firearm rights on the property Montana State Law. So, as I've been saying not exactly a good policy for your company to tell your employees to strap on a gun without first consulting the gun policy of your clients or commercial or residential.

I sure don't want some yahoo on my property with a gun-- what if he mistakes me doing something in the dark in the morning or night as a threat and I take a round in the ass... Sounds like a bad plan to me.
Click to expand...

#1 I'm not a yahoo.
#2 Short of a metal detector, you won't know I am carrying.
#3 Why are you doing something in the dark on your own property?
#4 I'm not aiming at someone's ass, but as big of an ass as you are, probably be the only thing I would hit.
 
KoNoR, do your parents have a posted sign
stating they allow guns on their property ?
 
JD Mark said:
Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so.

What it really is, is you had your ass handed to you, you know it and can't respond.
Click to expand...

Your argument here isn't applicable because dangerous tools or misused tools in the workplace doesn't make them purposely designed weapons now does it? That's why we use the phrase improvised weapons like when a person uses a screw driver to kill a person. Because 99.9% of the time people in the workplace aren't plotting to use a screw driver in a self-defense or offensive role-- especially if they have access to a purposely designed weapon i.e. like a Gun.

Your argument is designed to falsely deny any difference between a tool designed for offensive or defensive use and an improvised weapon of that nature. That's a fallacy of divison because you're claiming that all that items that can harm people are designed for that function. So, while correct a gun and a car can both be used to harm people the fact that can both fall into a class of dangerous items the reality is that Cars aren't designed to be used as weapons like guns.

And then you claim that my argument is that you have to remove all items that can cause harm in your work place to remove liability. That isn't at all what I'm arguing. What I'm arguing is that to remove the liability would require a lot of things. One of them being informing your clients that your crews will be armed on their property and asking them if they have an issues with this policy.

That's a different argument than you're stating I'm making.
 
Hydromaster said:
KoNoR, do your parents have a posted sign
stating they allow guns on their property ?
Click to expand...

I have no posted signs like that on my property. But then again I don't even bother no trespassing signs actually. We don't really have any issues with trespassers these days.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
I have no posted signs like that on my property. But then again I don't even bother no trespassing signs actually. We don't really have any issues with trespassers these days.
Click to expand...


Then you should get your guns out of your parents property
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
Your argument here isn't applicable because dangerous tools or misused tools in the workplace doesn't make them purposely designed weapons now does it? That's why we use the phrase improvised weapons like when a person uses a screw driver to kill a person. Because 99.9% of the time people in the workplace aren't plotting to use a screw driver in a self-defense or offensive role-- especially if they have access to a purposely designed weapon i.e. like a Gun.

Your argument is designed to falsely deny any difference between a tool designed for offensive or defensive use and an improvised weapon of that nature. That's a fallacy of divison because you're claiming that all that items that can harm people are designed for that function. So, while correct a gun and a car can both be used to harm people the fact that can both fall into a class of dangerous items the reality is that Cars aren't designed to be used as weapons like guns.

And then you claim that my argument is that you have to remove all items that can cause harm in your work place to remove liability. That isn't at all what I'm arguing. What I'm arguing is that to remove the liability would require a lot of things. One of them being informing your clients that your crews will be armed on their property and asking them if they have an issues with this policy.

That's a different argument than you're stating I'm making.
Click to expand...

My firearms have never hurt a person.

My firearms can be considered a tool, just like any of those things I listed.

Can you back up that 99.9% figure?

Why do I have to inform my customers that I or my employees may or may not be armed? And you still haven't proved there is any liability.
 
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