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Panzers: I break rocks thread

Seems to me you could just keep driving over it with the excavator and break it up faster than that damn ball.
 
Bogus One said:
Seems to me you could just keep driving over it with the excavator and break it up faster than that damn ball.
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Would have to be a big one. Even then an excavator has such a large contact area it doesn’t lead to breaking the concrete up much.

Now my narrow track “she’s a sinker” bulldozer would do a better job.
 
[486] said:
"the most on-spec gummy A36 plate you've ever seen"
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The lowest grade frame steel exceeds A36 specs. Hinge plates on buckets are a much higher grade of alloy steel. There are many specs Cat uses for structures based on fatigue life, stress, and wear.

I'm sure there are areas A36 is used like sheet metal covers etc. but not in the frames, linkage or buckets.

I have used A36 to build prototypes out of due to supplier availability. The modulus of elasticity is the same so the instrumentation gives the same answer.
 
lt1yj said:
Cat doesn't use shit steel in anything I'm aware of and I've done/do design work on a LOT of Cat machines including buckets, linkages, frame structures and powertrain systems.
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What is the clearance tolerance for pin holes in the frame? I have noticed my John Deere loaders seem to wobble out the pin bores sooner than my old cats. It seems like they have a looser pin bore tolerance when new that allows the pin to beat the frame up.

Now a 980f between colleted pins and tight tolerances the pins stay tight for 20,000+ hours before a bore weld job is required.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
What is the clearance tolerance for pin holes in the frame? I have noticed my John Deere loaders seem to wobble out the pin bores sooner than my old cats. It seems like they have a looser pin bore tolerance when new that allows the pin to beat the frame up.

Now a 980f between colleted pins and tight tolerances the pins stay tight for 20,000+ hours before a bore weld job is required.
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There's no simple answer to that question. I can give you rules of thumb but it comes down to a lot more factors than just bore clearance.

Pin diameter and length, heat treat, width of the connection on the bucket or frame, edge treatment to the bearing, crown on the pin, bore alignment, bearing preload and clearance all go together to make the system work effectively. The stiffness of the components the pin connects plays a role as well.

Deflection of the pin under load while rotating creates a high edge load on the bearing and creates wear and can yield the underlying material. A larger diameter pin that's shorter and spaced farther apart reduces the contact stress leading to higher life. Increasing the bearing thickness distributes the stress over a larger area. Add a small radius at the edge of the chamfer on the bearing and it goes up a lot faster. Crown the pin or the bearing improves it even faster.

Choosing the right pin and bearing material and the correct heat treat adds a lot to the life of the pin joint.

Bore elongation can be a result of wear that increases the edge load on the bore or impact loads due to additional clearance. Larger diameter and shorter pins, with thicker bearings with crown reduce the likelihood of bore elongation. It's hard to make changes like this to an existing design but it can be done with trial and error with limited improvement.
 
lt1yj said:
Cat doesn't use shit steel in anything I'm aware of and I've done/do design work on a LOT of Cat machines including buckets, linkages, frame structures and powertrain systems.
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Sorry, might have worded someting wrong but but when lower center pivots of a loader need be line bored because of 1/4" of wear in the plate. Machine was set up from cat with a Lincoln auto lube. Center pins and bushings still looked good. Cold roll and hot roll steel, do you know the difference.
 
lt1yj said:
Cat doesn't use shit steel in anything I'm aware of and I've done/do design work on a LOT of Cat machines including buckets, linkages, frame structures and powertrain systems.
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Bet you are a Cat nut swinger that thinks Cat is still 100% made in AMERICA product, that loader in 2005 had, China, and Brazil in casting marks all over it.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
I’m pretty sure he is a engineer that works for cat :lmao:
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Doesnt matter in the real world, the 988h i ran was best loader id ever ran, but i seen in the real world its flaws, pins and bushings would be good, main plates to to pins would wear first. And the stupid ass oil bathed pins. Boom lift cylinders around 10 gallon of 80w90, boom to main frame .70 of a quart.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
I’m pretty sure he is a engineer that works for cat :lmao:
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I left Cat in 1999. I sell my engineering services to whoever pays the bills now. I still do project work for Cat on and off.

Dental tools, furniture, boat, heat exchanger, automotive, grain bins, earthmoving equipment ..... etc. I take that back. I don't work for automotive suppliers anymore.

I'm currently working for a company designing woodworking clamps, and another that makes rotary compactor wheels for mini hex and backhoes.
 
baldduck1974 said:
Bet you are a Cat nut swinger that thinks Cat is still 100% made in AMERICA product, that loader in 2005 had, China, and Brazil in casting marks all over it.
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Ha ha. I'm well aware where Cat equipment is made.
 
baldduck1974 said:
Doesnt matter in the real world, the 988h i ran was best loader id ever ran, but i seen in the real world its flaws, pins and bushings would be good, main plates to to pins would wear first. And the stupid ass oil bathed pins. Boom lift cylinders around 10 gallon of 80w90, boom to main frame .70 of a quart.
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I know the guy that designed the oil bath pins. He just retired from Cat. You're not the only one that hates those, I think everybody does.:lmao:

How often does that machine see a drop catch or have the rear tires off the ground?

The interference between the bearing and the hitch plate could be too low from the factory causing the bearing to walk which would cause the bore to wallow out. Or they could have been machined out of alignment which does the same thing.
 
lt1yj said:
I know the guy that designed the oil bath pins. He just retired from Cat. You're not the only one that hates those, I think everybody does.:lmao:

How often does that machine see a drop catch or have the rear tires off the ground?

The interference between the bearing and the hitch plate could be too low from the factory causing the bearing to walk which would cause the bore to wallow out. Or they could have been machined out of alignment which does the same thing.
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I wasnt trying to be a smart ass about any of it, I really loved runing that machine. Company had 3 988H in and all 3 have same exact issuse except for one I ran had the no grease center pivot driveshaft that seized up and took out the transmission. The broken starter noses was the worst though.
 
baldduck1974 said:
I wasnt trying to be a smart ass about any of it, I really loved runing that machine. Company had 3 988H in and all 3 have same exact issues except for one I ran had the no grease center pivot driveshaft that seized up and took out the transmission. The broken starter noses was the worst though.
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I'm not trying to bust your balls either. Cat is one of the most end user focused customers I have and they really do put a major focus on reliability, serviceability and value to the end user. There are always things Cat can do better. Maybe 988H hitch pin and hitch plates are one of them?
 
lt1yj said:
I'm not trying to bust your balls either. Cat is one of the most end user focused customers I have and they really do put a major focus on reliability, serviceability and value to the end user. There are always things Cat can do better. Maybe 988H hitch pin and hitch plates are one of them?
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One thing that was left out was the hours on these loaders. Having hitch issues at 10,000 hrs kinda a big deal, 25-30,000 hours it is to be expected. I aspire to have a 988h some day lol.
 
Well global warming has finally hit us. It was such a mild winter it sounds like the counties are gonna not post the roads this year. There is zero frost in the ground days are staying above freezing. First time in my dad’s lifetime this has ever happened. We’ll take it got a ton of stuff done. Will be starting to make asphalt gravel here shortly for the season.


Boys almost have my dad’s recycle pile done. Got 22,000t of 1.25” gravel made. They are working on making 5-6,000 ton of breaker stone right now. Once they hit that the rest will be made into gravel. It will be just over 30,000 when it’s all said and done.

IMG_9487.jpeg
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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
One thing that was left out was the hours on these loaders. Having hitch issues at 10,000 hrs kinda a big deal, 25-30,000 hours it is to be expected. I aspire to have a 988h some day lol.
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Step up your game and go 995. You could mine the whole county in your lifetime.

I saw one for the first time in November. Impressive machines.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
One thing that was left out was the hours on these loaders. Having hitch issues at 10,000 hrs kinda a big deal, 25-30,000 hours it is to be expected. I aspire to have a 988h some day lol.
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Around 14,000, standard long boom, GP mod, spade toothed bucket, lol more bad memories. I was a tire saver guy, instant the bucket lip hit the pile boom down a smidge, roll bucket back. Let me say I am a cat guy. My disappointment falls with backup loader being a wa500-3 with 25,000+ hours
 
Little man had a 103 fever today so it was daddy daycare. Which pretty much means I’m gonna go in the shop to work come get me if there is an emergency . :lmao: I’ll be back in to make lunch :lmao:.

Got the boom all bored out today. Got them in the first shot. No mutiple attempts needed this time :homer:.

they turned out good.
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Pulled the new bushings in.
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All ready to go
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Next need to figure out what I’m gonna do with these links. The holes are all wobbled out. Wore down pretty good where the boss rubs. Deere want $676 a piece but they are not available atm.
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I could bore weld them all but that’s 8 holes and 8 faces to fix. Lots of work.

Measured them up and they are .785 ish thick. Must be 20mm plate. Might have the steel shop burn new ones out and just bore the holes to the final size. Still on the bubble for these.
 
What happen to that pounder thingy you bought to go one an excavator?
 
87manche said:
Man I gotta get in on that hollow ram deal.
Slick.
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the chinese ones are dirt cheap, last one I bought was like $150, and I sprung for the one with the longer 4" travel (shouda gone for the shorter one though, thing's heavy to hold up while aligning everything)
 
cj3a said:
What happen to that pounder thingy you bought to go one an excavator?
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It’s in the yard. I finally got that track tensioner fixed on the excavator it goes on. It’s one of those things you don’t use very often. But when you do need it, it kicks butt.

I do have 50-60 3’ + all lined up and ready to be broken.
 
[486] said:
the chinese ones are dirt cheap, last one I bought was like $150, and I sprung for the one with the longer 4" travel (shouda gone for the shorter one though, thing's heavy to hold up while aligning everything)
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Yeah mine is almost a 2 person job to get everything aligned and tightened. The longer stroke is nice to get most bushings in one pull. Today I only put .0015 of squish on the fits and they went in easy. Only took 1000 psi to pull them in. A little lighter than I like but it is what it is . I like 4-5k psi to pull them.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah mine is almost a 2 person job to get everything aligned and tightened. The longer stroke is nice to get most bushings in one pull. Today I only put .0015 of squish on the fits and they went in easy. Only took 1000 psi to pull them in. A little lighter than I like but it is what it is . I like 4-5k psi to pull them.
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I'd be scared of making the press too tight, then ending up with pins that are an interference fit, lol

brake cylinder hone to the rescue
 
Boys should finish up the recycle pile by my dad’s house today. Took 5000 gallons of diesel to run this pile through.

What they have left
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The pile of 1.25” dense base.

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Just about out of room to pile anymore. There should be 28,000 ton of 1.25” and 5500 ton of breaker stone after we are done. Dad got 4.5 dump trailers of steel out of that pile. 7-800$ in scrap.

I should be finishing my recycle pile up today with my impactor. 12,000ton of gravel and 800 ton of breaker stone

Earlier this week got to work on line boring the quick coupler for that loader I’m repinning.

Bored the holes out square
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Welded them back up
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Now need to find time to rebore.
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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Boys should finish up the recycle pile by my dad’s house today. Took 5000 gallons of diesel to run this pile through.


The pile of 1.25” dense base.

IMG_9515.jpeg
IMG_9514.jpeg
Just about out of room to pile anymore. There should be 28,000 ton of 1.25” and 5500 ton of breaker stone after we are done. Dad got 4.5 dump trailers of steel out of that pile. 7-800$ in scrap.
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That is a lot of fuel in my world. What kind of money is that pile worth? How much does fuel cost per gallon out there? I think red is still over $5gal in commiefornia.
 
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