New Ford Duallys are 6+ months out?

CarterKraft · Oct 28, 2023

I guess I'm dense... If you register the truck for 10k and get pulled over with more than 10k are you not in the same problem as your door sticker not matching?

I'm missing something I guess, likely commercial truck shit or something.

Edit: from the 2011 manual

Pocahontas · Oct 28, 2023

My understanding is if you are trying to skirt things the truck gvwr over 10k if you are towing automatically puts you into commercial even if you have a empty trailer. If you are below 10k you can have a 16k trailer before you are considered “commercial” even if doing “commercial” things.

Being considered commercial means you have to keep books, a medical card ect not worth the hassle if you can get around it.

Generally why srw and bumper pulls are ignored while dually with goose will get you attention from dot.

aczlan · Oct 29, 2023

Pocahontas said:
My understanding is if you are trying to skirt things the truck gvwr over 10k if you are towing automatically puts you into commercial even if you have a empty trailer. If you are below 10k you can have a 16k trailer before you are considered “commercial” even if doing “commercial” things.

Being considered commercial means you have to keep books, a medical card ect not worth the hassle if you can get around it.

Generally why srw and bumper pulls are ignored while dually with goose will get you attention from dot.

Isn't it 10k GVWR OR GCWR?

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/company-has-truck-gvwr-under-10001-pounds-towing-trailer-gvwr-under-10001-pounds-0

Aaron Z

Southernfriedcj8 · Oct 29, 2023

CarterKraft said:
I guess I'm dense... If you register the truck for 10k and get pulled over with more than 10k are you not in the same problem as your door sticker not matching?

I thought it was all based-on door sticker and axle ratings?

To be non CDL:

A dually (or any truck) with a 14k GVWR can pull a trailer with a 12k GVWR.
Dually 13k, trailer 13k.
Dually 12k, trailer 14k.
Dually 11k, trailer 15k.
Dually 10k, trailer 16k.

You still have to be within axle ratings.

I pulled 17k with my 10k rated SRW F250. I only grossed at 24k+ because the truck actually weighs 7,300 lbs. I was over the 10k GVWR on the truck because I was pin heavy based on the load on the trailer. Trailer was rated for 14k+.
If I could have shifted 260 lbs off the pin and onto the trailer, the truck axles would have scaled at 10k and the trailer axles would have scaled at 14,240. All would have been legit for a non CDL load.

If I would have been driving a dually rated at 14k, the empty trailer would have put me over 26k combined. A derated dually would have been much safer.

I had a Class A non CDL for driving air brakes, 26k+ and tractor trailers (fire department). Last time I renewed my license they changed it to a Class E. Truck over 26k and trailer over 10k, non CDL.

I have asked two DOT people if I can still go over 26k combined, non CDL, for personal use. One said "send it". The other said "fire trucks only".

CarterKraft · Oct 29, 2023

My truck and RV are class A non CDL due to 14k truck with 13k trailer, however on my last truck it was registered for 10k (passenger car) and while still illegal in the same aspects as not having the correct license it was now also over registered weight...

So my question is how do you de-rate the dually and still have any payload left to haul what you need to, regardless of license issues?
Or does a gas single cab 2wd have a huge advantage there?

CarterKraft · Oct 29, 2023

Southernfriedcj8 said:
I thought it was all based-on door sticker and axle ratings?

To be non CDL:

A dually (or any truck) with a 14k GVWR can pull a trailer with a 12k GVWR.
Dually 13k, trailer 13k.
Dually 12k, trailer 14k.
Dually 11k, trailer 15k.
Dually 10k, trailer 16k.

You still have to be within axle ratings.

I pulled 17k with my 10k rated SRW F250. I only grossed at 24k+ because the truck actually weighs 7,300 lbs. I was over the 10k GVWR on the truck because I was pin heavy based on the load on the trailer. Trailer was rated for 14k+.
If I could have shifted 260 lbs off the pin and onto the trailer, the truck axles would have scaled at 10k and the trailer axles would have scaled at 14,240. All would have been legit for a non CDL load.

If I would have been driving a dually rated at 14k, the empty trailer would have put me over 26k combined. A derated dually would have been much safer.

I had a Class A non CDL for driving air brakes, 26k+ and tractor trailers (fire department). Last time I renewed my license they changed it to a Class E. Truck over 26k and trailer over 10k, non CDL.

I have asked two DOT people if I can still go over 26k combined, non CDL, for personal use. One said "send it". The other said "fire trucks only".

In Texas if the trailer GVW is over 10k is when you have the problem.

Southernfriedcj8 · Oct 29, 2023

CarterKraft said:
In Texas if the trailer GVW is over 10k is when you have the problem.

That may be true everywhere. It sounds familiar.

I hate that you can ask different DOT people the same questions and get different answers and the regs can be ambiguous (in the case of my license).

Pocahontas · Oct 29, 2023

aczlan said:
Isn't it 10k GVWR OR GCWR?

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/company-has-truck-gvwr-under-10001-pounds-towing-trailer-gvwr-under-10001-pounds-0

Aaron Z

Would that not mean, with modern weight ratings, that if you hook pretty much any trailer to any modern truck you would fall into cdl territory? Or am I reading that wrong?

Pocahontas · Oct 29, 2023

Southernfriedcj8 said:
I thought it was all based-on door sticker and axle ratings?

To be non CDL:

A dually (or any truck) with a 14k GVWR can pull a trailer with a 12k GVWR.
Dually 13k, trailer 13k.
Dually 12k, trailer 14k.
Dually 11k, trailer 15k.
Dually 10k, trailer 16k.

This is what I always went buy and to always say you owned everything on trailer and were using said equipment on your own property.

arse_sidewards · Oct 29, 2023

In MA you don't need brakes until your trailer weighs 10k....unladen. :laughing:

RPS1030 · Oct 29, 2023

Pocahontas said:
Would that not mean, with modern weight ratings, that if you hook pretty much any trailer to any modern truck you would fall into cdl territory? Or am I reading that wrong?

FMCSA doesn’t not necessarily equal CDL. To further muddy it, at a prior employer, when starting to work jobs in CA. Over 10k GCWR, Medical Cards were then needed, but not CDL. Which is basically any modern full-size pickup with most any trailer hooked up.

CarterKraft · Oct 29, 2023

Pocahontas said:
Would that not mean, with modern weight ratings, that if you hook pretty much any trailer to any modern truck you would fall into cdl territory? Or am I reading that wrong?

Not CDL technically but different class of license.

CarterKraft · Oct 29, 2023

We had to argue like hell with the fatassed lady at the DMV to use a 11k gvw bumper pull dump trailer for road test she was pissed but the law states very clearly IMO 10,001+ gvw rating which it has.

She passed my buddy by one point just to be a bitch.

aczlan · Oct 29, 2023

CarterKraft said:
In Texas if the trailer GVW is over 10k is when you have the problem.

IF the GCWR is also over 26k for CDL, right? That is how I read their chart: https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cve/publications/cdl-flowchart.pdf

Pocahontas said:
Would that not mean, with modern weight ratings, that if you hook pretty much any trailer to any modern truck you would fall into cdl territory? Or am I reading that wrong?

FMCSA means needing flares, chocks, possibly med card, etc if you are hauling commercially.
Doesn't necessarily mean you need a CDL unless you meet the criteria outlined in the flowchart above.

Aaron Z

TRINDU · Oct 29, 2023

SLOWPOKE693 said:
What are you trying to do?

stay under combined weight of 26,001. my trailers have already been 'derated' to 15,500. At some point you have to make the weights believable.

The flow chart above explains it well. If i stay under 26k combined i dont have to run txdot numbers, books, etc. My insurance is also cheaper. A lot of headaches avoided.

CarterKraft said:
You can register the truck for less, did that on on the last one by accident.
You can (I thought) derate it to 10k at build, is that not a option anymore?

do tell. DMV wont let me derate a truck, even spoke to regional managers. What the sticker on the door/pillar says, it what it is. not like ford is going to mail you another VIN tag. you can no longer build a dually with a 10k gvw.

SLOWPOKE693 said:
That's why I asked the question I asked. My F550 has a GVW of 19,500 and it has passenger car plates on it. Zero issues...

hook a 14k trailer to that truck and you need a CDL. what the plates say really dont mattter.

Pocahontas said:
Get a srw and run duals on rear lots of drw beds for sale for 1k or so from upfitters around here. Then you have home brew f350 with 10k rating.

If Im having to build a truck, Im damn sure not wasting money on a new one.

aczlan · Oct 29, 2023

TRINDU said:
hook a 14k trailer to that truck and you need a CDL. what the plates say really dont mattter

Correct, hook a 9,999# GVWR trailer to it and you are ok, hook a 10,001# trailer to it and you need a CDL.

Aaron Z

Southernfriedcj8 · Oct 29, 2023

Pocahontas said:
I assume the 10k is because of dot? Get a srw and run duals on rear lots of drw beds for sale for 1k or so from upfitters around here. Then you have home brew f350 with 10k rating.

Where is "around here"? I was considering getting a dually bed if I can find one in Stone Gray (doubtful, one year only color on a one year only, until 2024, bed).

I searched around here, and they are all white beds and they wany crazy prices (1.5k to 5k). No wonder they aren't selling. I did find SRW beds for $300 new (takeoff).

SLOWPOKE693 · Oct 29, 2023

Sounds like putting a couple windows, an awning and a shitter in my 12k GVW race car trailer and re-registering it as a camper might be a thing if I ever get hassled. Fuck the DOT

SLOWPOKE693 · Oct 29, 2023

Southernfriedcj8 said:
I searched around here, and they are all white beds and they wany crazy prices (1.5k to 5k). No wonder they aren't selling. I did find SRW beds for $300 new (takeoff).

Tell me you're a cheap fuck without saying it......

1.5k for a new take off dually bed isn't a crazy price. Even 3k sounds reasonable still having to paint it. 5k is dumb and that one will never sell and you know that.

Please post a new takeoff $300 SRW bed. I live in the land of pickups with flatbed conversions and they are not that cheap around here.

TRINDU · Oct 29, 2023

SLOWPOKE693 said:
Sounds like putting a couple windows, an awning and a shitter in my 12k GVW race car trailer and re-registering it as a camper might be a thing if I ever get hassled. Fuck the DOT

What do your tags say? On truck and trailer.

Being classified as an RV trailer doesn't matter. Lot of orel feld guys would getting popped for their RVs. Weight is weight.

Yes, fuck the gov. But I have to play the game till the revolution. The whole 26k number is very outdated, but DOT isn't going to budge on a money maker.

Southernfriedcj8 · Oct 29, 2023

SLOWPOKE693 said:
Please post a new takeoff $300 SRW bed. I live in the land of pickups with flatbed conversions and they are not that cheap around here.

I'm a fucking liar now? :shaking:

Here are a couple ads for $300, 2023 beds. I couldn't find the ad that came up last time I searched (earlier today). That guy had a bunch of white 2023 beds for $300. FBMP search sucks. I did find a bunch of cheaper dually beds that didn't come up on my last search.

There is not much demand for the 2023 bed. All the sellers seem to be sitting on them. I should have ordered a white truck. The last two trucks I've bought were white just so I could replace the beds before I sold them. I beat a truck bed to death.

$300. The ad is 9 weeks old BECAUSE THERE IS NO DEMAND FOR NEW TRUCK BEDS!