Need a 3/4-1 ton Truck for Long Hauls

[rockota]

I don't care what you make.

That’s a lie.

 

[arse_sidewards]

That’s a lie.

If you wanna re-have that argument let's not do it in a tech forum.

 

[DMG]

Overpaying. Get it right.

I don't care what you make. The outflow required to get the badge on the grill is too high.

Everything I buy is broken or wrecked when i drag it home. You can buy a toyota that,way, drive it for years and make money on it.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Everything I buy is broken or wrecked when i drag it home. You can buy a toyota that,way, drive it for years and make money on it.

But that goes for almost any vehicle you buy non-running. Look at all those people who built fummins from blown up 6.0s.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Everything I buy is broken or wrecked when i drag it home. You can buy a toyota that,way, drive it for years and make money on it.

Same, except I never get around to selling them I’ve never given over $500 for a 4x4 Toyota. That’s why I can afford to wheel them

 

[IowaOffRoad]

But that goes for almost any vehicle you buy non-running. Look at all those people who built fummins from blown up 6.0s.

Not a good example, price of a running/inop 6L is about the same

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Don't feed the troll

Anyone who can't tell a build quality difference between a 80/90/00s Japanese truck and American mini truck can't be taken seriously anyway

My 96 s10 that had 100k miles on it in 2011 felt more clunky and rattley than my 96 4runner does with 350k miles. S10 was an original owner old man purchase, not a tweeker hauling stolen beer cans.

After mid 00s, I'm not so sold on toyota vs ford. I think toyota quality went down and fords went up. Not saying the tundra is less reliable than the same year F150, but I'm not sure it is? If you step out of all the ecoboost speculation, there is lots of cases of them lasting 200-300k miles in fleet applications.

 

[FleshEater]

Don't feed the troll

Anyone who can't tell a build quality difference between a 80/90/00s Japanese truck and American mini truck can't be taken seriously anyway

My 96 s10 that had 100k miles on it in 2011 felt more clunky and rattley than my 96 4runner does with 350k miles. S10 was an original owner old man purchase, not a tweeker hauling stolen beer cans.

After mid 00s, I'm not so sold on toyota vs ford. I think toyota quality went down and fords went up. Not saying the tundra is less reliable than the same year F150, but I'm not sure it is? If you step out of all the ecoboost speculation, there is lots of cases of them lasting 200-300k miles in fleet applications.

There are a good bit of 200k+ mile F-150’s and Tundras on Auto Trader. (I use Auto Trader for ease of use searching the whole country). What I’d be interested in knowing is which one feels like it’s still got life left, and which feels like it’s hanging on by a wing and a prayer. Suppose I could try to find both locally and test drive them, but not much survives here if they’re running in salt.

I could get my Chevy to 200k+ miles with enough work, but it’s going to feel like a rolling turd and everything will be falling apart on it.

Highest mileage one close to me…I might go see how it feels.

Autotrader - page unavailable

I’ve driven plenty of 1 ton Ford vans with over 400,000 miles on them. Not sure if the F-150’s would feel as decent.

 

[Leadfoot21]

From a career mechanics perspective there isn’t ten cents worth of difference wrenching on any of the trucks we’ve mentioned outside of major engine work .

You’re going to be disappointed when you find out they all break and all have similar issues over a long term ownership I bet .

However I’ve been contemplating the same thing. Never been a toyota fan but am at a point in my life where I can wrench confidently on anything but I don’t want to have to wrench on anything I don’t have to unless it’s by choice 😂

You already know you want to try the Tundra so do it . But , broaden your search area and fly out with the boy and road trip one home !

 

[arse_sidewards]

Don't feed the troll

Says the subhuman piece of trash that goes on to say this as if it's not obvious trolling:

Anyone who can't tell a build quality difference between a 80/90/00s Japanese truck and American mini truck can't be taken seriously anyway

Any year of TTB Ranger is equal to or better than the same year Toyota on any metric you can come up with and on the ones that really matter the Ranger is pretty much better across the board.

The only way the Toyota is in any way competitive is if you are shopping for a late 80s early 90s 2wd V6 auto trans truck (i.e. the worst Ranger money can buy). And even then it's a pretty close race and a similarly equipped S10 would be a better choice than either. Which says a lot.

My 96 s10 that had 100k miles on it in 2011 felt more clunky and rattley than my 96 4runner does with 350k miles. S10 was an original owner old man purchase, not a tweeker hauling stolen beer cans.

Mid 1990s GM interior and chassis isn't exactly a high bar. What are you gonna do next, compare your Taco to a Baja to make it look good?

 

[FleshEater]

From a career mechanics perspective there isn’t ten cents worth of difference wrenching on any of the trucks we’ve mentioned outside of major engine work .

You’re going to be disappointed when you find out they all break and all have similar issues over a long term ownership I bet .

However I’ve been contemplating the same thing. Never been a toyota fan but am at a point in my life where I can wrench confidently on anything but I don’t want to have to wrench on anything I don’t have to unless it’s by choice 😂

You already know you want to try the Tundra so do it . But , broaden your search area and fly out with the boy and road trip one home !

I am fully aware stuff wears out. I have zero issues with normal wear items. But wires breaking in a door at 110,000 miles isn’t normal wear. It’s a junk truck. Interior falling apart and just feeling like a heap of shit is also not a normal thing. Unless you drive Chevys.

I’ve owned Ford, Jeep, and Chevy SUV’s and the 4Runner is 10 times better than all of them with higher mileage on it. That’s coming from my own personal experience owning and driving these vehicles myself. The WJ Grand Cherokee wasn’t terrible, but he transmission died at 109k miles.

So, I can’t see how a Tundra would disappoint me, unless the made in America is lower quality than the Japanese made 4Runner. One thing I know is that Fords rust out like crazy here. They’re the worst, Dodge and Toyota are close seconds. Chevys seems to last the longest.

 

[DMG]

But that goes for almost any vehicle you buy non-running. Look at all those people who built fummins from blown up 6.0s.

Anyone that does a Fummin swap for less than $10-15k either hacked it together or is lying.

 

[DMG]

Same, except I never get around to selling them I’ve never given over $500 for a 4x4 Toyota. That’s why I can afford to wheel them

That’s why my 1st Gen 4runner has been getting an engine swap for 10 years. I have been wheeling cheap XJs since I sold my LJ Rubi.

 

[DMG]

Says the subhuman piece of trash that goes on to say this as if it's not obvious trolling:

Any year of TTB Ranger is equal to or better than the same year Toyota on any metric you can come up with and on the ones that really matter the Ranger is pretty much better across the board.

The only way the Toyota is in any way competitive is if you are shopping for a late 80s early 90s 2wd V6 auto trans truck (i.e. the worst Ranger money can buy). And even then it's a pretty close race and a similarly equipped S10 would be a better choice than either. Which says a lot.



Mid 1990s GM interior and chassis isn't exactly a high bar. What are you gonna do next, compare your Taco to a Baja to make it look good?

I am not sure why I bother with this conversation every time but I have as many Fords as Toyotas and I still know Toyotas are better because I have worked on them all for years.

 

[Leadfoot21]

I am fully aware stuff wears out. I have zero issues with normal wear items. But wires breaking in a door at 110,000 miles isn’t normal wear. It’s a junk truck. Interior falling apart and just feeling like a heap of shit is also not a normal thing. Unless you drive Chevys.

I’ve owned Ford, Jeep, and Chevy SUV’s and the 4Runner is 10 times better than all of them with higher mileage on it. That’s coming from my own personal experience owning and driving these vehicles myself. The WJ Grand Cherokee wasn’t terrible, but he transmission died at 109k miles.

So, I can’t see how a Tundra would disappoint me, unless the made in America is lower quality than the Japanese made 4Runner. One thing I know is that Fords rust out like crazy here. They’re the worst, Dodge and Toyota are close seconds. Chevys seems to last the longest.

You did get the worst year of Chevy truck to be fair !

I’ve owned a lot of vehicles also and I understand the loyalty when you find one that’s less problematic .

May have read my message differently than I intended . I myself am contemplating giving a tundra a shot . My last Toyota was not a good experience but was in their worst years (1996 T100).

I don’t think you will be disappointed either I just will be surprised if you don’t have similar issues with the tundra. I am contemplating buying one also but they’re not cheap used which is my hesitation because I’m not a fan of the looks or the interiors but if I can get past that I might like them .

 

[Gbkeith]

From a career mechanics perspective there isn’t ten cents worth of difference wrenching on any of the trucks we’ve mentioned outside of major engine work .

You’re going to be disappointed when you find out they all break and all have similar issues over a long term ownership I bet .

However I’ve been contemplating the same thing. Never been a toyota fan but am at a point in my life where I can wrench confidently on anything but I don’t want to have to wrench on anything I don’t have to unless it’s by choice 😂

You already know you want to try the Tundra so do it . But , broaden your search area and fly out with the boy and road trip one home !

This. If people get what they want they’ll ignore a lot of stuff. Even if it’s a fuckin Toyota. If they don’t like it they’ll look for every little problem with it.

 

[FleshEater]

You did get the worst year of Chevy truck to be fair !

I’ve owned a lot of vehicles also and I understand the loyalty when you find one that’s less problematic .

May have read my message differently than I intended . I myself am contemplating giving a tundra a shot . My last Toyota was not a good experience but was in their worst years (1996 T100).

I don’t think you will be disappointed either I just will be surprised if you don’t have similar issues with the tundra. I am contemplating buying one also but they’re not cheap used which is my hesitation because I’m not a fan of the looks or the interiors but if I can get past that I might like them .

I’ll be quite honest, apples to apples, the price difference between Ford F-150’s and Tundras is $3,000-$5,000.

When I say apples to apples I’m talking mileage, trim levels, years, and overall appearance.

 

[FleshEater]

This. If people get what they want they’ll ignore a lot of stuff. Even if it’s a fuckin Toyota. If they don’t like it they’ll look for every little problem with it.

Not always. I bought a brand new Rubicon Wrangler once. It had 7 miles on it. It was an absolute piece of shit and I traded in after one year for my current Chevy truck. Wrangler had 4,000 miles on it and I bought an old Chevy. Didn’t lose any money, but it speaks volumes on how shitty that was for an 09’ Silverado to seem like the better buy.

 

[Gbkeith]

Not always. I bought a brand new Rubicon Wrangler once. It had 7 miles on it. It was an absolute piece of shit and I traded in after one year for my current Chevy truck. Wrangler had 4,000 miles on it and I bought an old Chevy. Didn’t lose any money, but it speaks volumes on how shitty that was for an 09’ Silverado to seem like the better buy.

Well, yeah. People can ignore a lot of stuff but it takes really special people to ignore fiat/dodge level shit.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Anyone that does a Fummin swap for less than $10-15k either hacked it together or is lying.

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me.

My point still stands though about how (poorly maintained European cars notwithstanding) it's really hard to not come out ahead if you buy stuff that needs work and then do work at cost.

Well, yeah. People can ignore a lot of stuff but it takes really special people to ignore fiat/dodge level shit.

I bet if people paid a Toyota premium they'd get real good at ignoring.

Real easy to ignore shit if you're financially invested.

<insert proverb about the difficulty of making a man see he's been fleeced>

 

[DMG]

Yeah that wouldn't surprise me.

My point still stands though about how (poorly maintained European cars notwithstanding) it's really hard to not come out ahead if you buy stuff that needs work and then do work at cost.


I bet if people paid a Toyota premium they'd get real good at ignoring.

Real easy to ignore shit if you're financially invested.

<insert proverb about the difficulty of making a man see he's been fleeced>

I don’t think that proverb applies to cars. People get tired of fixing their post BK GM shit and go to Toyota all the time, for example.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Arse, I know you've brought up the various toyota recalls over the years as evidence that toyotas suck and are overpriced "cuz muh yota".
I won't argue that the perceived value of Toyota is higher than it should be, but even with the recalls for rust, accel pedals, and airbags, and some models that have front suspension issues, the question is: How do those issues compare to their competition? How does the manufacturer handle those issues? You should distain Honda, VW, and M-B more for their perceived value vs. actual value vs. actual reliability. They both trade way higher on a reputation and have a tendency to tell their customers to fuck off when they have lemon vehicles because "our vehicle is perfect, if its broken you are using it wrong". For Toyota's faults they seem more willing to answer their customers problems. Your beloved Ford is better than the rest of the domestics, I'll give them that, but that's not saying much.
You brought up the superiority of the Ranger platform over the Pickup/Tacoma. I've never owned a taco (mainly due to yota premium) but I've owned every model of its predecessor since '79. I've also owned every version of Ranger (and it's cousins except the Aerostar) over that same time period and a little newer. The Ranger can kindly be called "the best of the rest". It's a great little truck, but in overall cost of ownership and longevity it really doesn't compare to a similar used/abused/maintained Toyota mini. It is the truck I recommend to everyone who wants a little pickup for a paid-for daily due more to attainability than superiority.
Perhaps you are just trolling for lulz, but in case anyone else buys your bullshit I felt it needed a response.

For how I really feel about all the brands:

 

[FleshEater]

Arse, I know you've brought up the various toyota recalls over the years as evidence that toyotas suck and are overpriced "cuz muh yota".
I won't argue that the perceived value of Toyota is higher than it should be, but even with the recalls for rust, accel pedals, and airbags, and some models that have front suspension issues, the question is: How do those issues compare to their competition? How does the manufacturer handle those issues? You should distain Honda, VW, and M-B more for their perceived value vs. actual value vs. actual reliability. They both trade way higher on a reputation and have a tendency to tell their customers to fuck off when they have lemon vehicles because "our vehicle is perfect, if its broken you are using it wrong". For Toyota's faults they seem more willing to answer their customers problems. Your beloved Ford is better than the rest of the domestics, I'll give them that, but that's not saying much.
You brought up the superiority of the Ranger platform over the Pickup/Tacoma. I've never owned a taco (mainly due to yota premium) but I've owned every model of its predecessor since '79. I've also owned every version of Ranger (and it's cousins except the Aerostar) over that same time period and a little newer. The Ranger can kindly be called "the best of the rest". It's a great little truck, but in overall cost of ownership and longevity it really doesn't compare to a similar used/abused/maintained Toyota mini. It is the truck I recommend to everyone who wants a little pickup for a paid-for daily due more to attainability than superiority.
Perhaps you are just trolling for lulz, but in case anyone else buys your bullshit I felt it needed a response.

For how I really feel about all the brands:

I know one thing. Chevy ain’t doing shit for any frame rot, and neither is Ford.

Toyota is slapping new frames under them.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Arse, I know you've brought up the various toyota recalls over the years as evidence that toyotas suck and are overpriced "cuz muh yota".
I won't argue that the perceived value of Toyota is higher than it should be, but even with the recalls for rust, accel pedals, and airbags, and some models that have front suspension issues, the question is: How do those issues compare to their competition? How does the manufacturer handle those issues?

I just give Toyota shit for the frames and the ball joints. Those are undeniably "we know shit's fucked but we're shipping it anyway" decisions that the dumbass fanboys always try and explain away.

You should distain Honda, VW, and M-B more for their perceived value vs. actual value vs. actual reliability. They both trade way higher on a reputation and have a tendency to tell their customers to fuck off when they have lemon vehicles because "our vehicle is perfect, if its broken you are using it wrong". For Toyota's faults they seem more willing to answer their customers problems. Your beloved Ford is better than the rest of the domestics, I'll give them that, but that's not saying much.

VW and MB, sure.

If you're a fucking moron who believes Toyota is worth the money then Honda, Mazda, Subaru are all under-valued as in my experieince they're about the same quality. If you're not a fucking moron they're valued correctly.

Nissan is the Dodge of Japan and Mitsubishi and Suzuki are in between.


I find it funny how people thing there's gonna be some huge difference between the japanese brands. They're all subject to the same management culture and drawing on the same supply chains. They're all staffed with a revolving door of the same talent pool. They're all hiring new grads who've been to the same engineering progams. After you account for decisions to build things to various price points (Nissan, lol) they're naturally gonna be neck and neck.

Euro-shit is not great across the board. They like to build whizz bang shit that needs a lot of work as it ages and doing that work requires a lot of work. That continent just has a shit engineering culture and it shows. You can really see it when domestic makes import "winners" from that contient. Shit like the Escort and Transit that are "good" over there are at best "meh" over here.

The Ranger can kindly be called "the best of the rest". It's a great little truck, but in overall cost of ownership and longevity it really doesn't compare to a similar used/abused/maintained Toyota mini.

The fuck are you smoking?

Beams > A-arms.

Rear axles are a lateral move, both are garbage for "serious abuse" though they'll both take if for a pretty long time.

2.3 > 22R(E). The amount of timing set, head and bottom end service you see enthusiasts doing on old 22R Toyotas so greatly exceeds the frequency with which you see people needing to address the same things on 2.3 vehicles that nobody can in good consciance say it's a wash. That said, all 80s anemic 4-bangers are pretty damn reliable.

Whatever RZ engine they replaced the RE with brings their 4-banger up to par with the 2.3

3.0 and Toyota's V6s are lateral moves. 4.0 is better than anything Toyota put in that gen or Hilux or the 1st gen Tacoma

Engine management in the EFI era is a lateral move. The Ford did the carb era better.

Manual transmissions are both good as are transfer cases.

Automatic transmissions are the only thing the Taco and Hilux do better

Ranger frame is beefier in every regard and doesn't rust out nearly as bad.

Toyota has a slightly better interior on some years because they skipped the generation of plastics Ford used in the mid 90s but it's generally a lateral move.

Sheetmetal and body stuff are fine on both trucks. Neither are like GM where you're doing door hinges at 100k and rebuilding the column at 150.

Wiring harness quality is about the same across the board. FWIW loom quality on 90s Japanese stuff seems very hit or miss whereas it's pretty consistantly ok on the domestics, not that that really matters here.

Like I said, the only configuration in which the Toyota is better is if you want an early 90s (before they started puttiung the 4.0 in stuff frequently) 2wd V6 auto trans truck. You'll get a shit V6 either way but you'll get a better auto trans with the Toyota and you probably weren't gonna get much use out of the beams anyway in that truck.

When you start talking 98+ Rangers the competition heats up a little because you don't have the TTB to give the Ranger an automatic point over the Taco in any given comparison.

In light of all of the above it's real hard to justify buying a Toyota over a same year Ranger let alone paying more for one.

For how I really feel about all the brands:

This.

I know one thing. Chevy ain’t doing shit for any frame rot, and neither is Ford.

Toyota is slapping new frames under them.

Well it takes two Toyota frames to equal the lifetime of one frame from any other manufacturer so...

 

[Snowy]

I just give Toyota shit for the frames and the ball joints. Those are undeniably "we know shit's fucked but we're shipping it anyway" decisions that the dumbass fanboys always try and explain away.




VW and MB, sure.

If you're a fucking moron who believes Toyota is worth the money then Honda, Mazda, Subaru are all under-valued as in my experieince they're about the same quality. If you're not a fucking moron they're valued correctly.

Nissan is the Dodge of Japan and Mitsubishi and Suzuki are in between.


I find it funny how people thing there's gonna be some huge difference between the japanese brands. They're all subject to the same management culture and drawing on the same supply chains. They're all staffed with a revolving door of the same talent pool. They're all hiring new grads who've been to the same engineering progams. After you account for decisions to build things to various price points (Nissan, lol) they're naturally gonna be neck and neck.

Euro-shit is not great across the board. They like to build whizz bang shit that needs a lot of work as it ages and doing that work requires a lot of work. That continent just has a shit engineering culture and it shows. You can really see it when domestic makes import "winners" from that contient. Shit like the Escort and Transit that are "good" over there are at best "meh" over here.

The fuck are you smoking?

Beams > A-arms.

Rear axles are a lateral move, both are garbage for "serious abuse" though they'll both take if for a pretty long time.

2.3 > 22R(E). The amount of timing set, head and bottom end service you see enthusiasts doing on old 22R Toyotas so greatly exceeds the frequency with which you see people needing to address the same things on 2.3 vehicles that nobody can in good consciance say it's a wash. That said, all 80s anemic 4-bangers are pretty damn reliable.

Whatever RZ engine they replaced the RE with brings their 4-banger up to par with the 2.3

3.0 and Toyota's V6s are lateral moves. 4.0 is better than anything Toyota put in that gen or Hilux or the 1st gen Tacoma

Engine management in the EFI era is a lateral move. The Ford did the carb era better.

Manual transmissions are both good as are transfer cases.

Automatic transmissions are the only thing the Taco and Hilux do better

Ranger frame is beefier in every regard and doesn't rust out nearly as bad.

Toyota has a slightly better interior on some years because they skipped the generation of plastics Ford used in the mid 90s but it's generally a lateral move.

Sheetmetal and body stuff are fine on both trucks. Neither are like GM where you're doing door hinges at 100k and rebuilding the column at 150.

Wiring harness quality is about the same across the board. FWIW loom quality on 90s Japanese stuff seems very hit or miss whereas it's pretty consistantly ok on the domestics, not that that really matters here.

Like I said, the only configuration in which the Toyota is better is if you want an early 90s (before they started puttiung the 4.0 in stuff frequently) 2wd V6 auto trans truck. You'll get a shit V6 either way but you'll get a better auto trans with the Toyota and you probably weren't gonna get much use out of the beams anyway in that truck.

When you start talking 98+ Rangers the competition heats up a little because you don't have the TTB to give the Ranger an automatic point over the Taco in any given comparison.

In light of all of the above it's real hard to justify buying a Toyota over a same year Ranger let alone paying more for one.



This.


Well it takes two Toyota frames to equal the lifetime of one frame from any other manufacturer so...

I thought you were trolling at first, but then I realized you really do believe the lies you tell yourself.

 

[Steve300xcw]

trying to think of the last time that I even saw a ranger..been a while

 

[IowaOffRoad]

trying to think of the last time that I even saw a ranger..been a while

I've got one. Tore up the transmission doing toyota shit. Front drive axles are shot. Carrier bearing is shot. Always been stock. Interior wiring is all fucked up. Interior falling apart (switches, plastics, upholstery). 1995 Ranger, so should be at the top of the heap, quality wise, according to arse.

I have never, not once, seen a similar mileage and body condition Toyota be so fucked up from regular use (I know the last 15y history of this particular truck). I've never replaced a CV on an IFS Toyota that's been left stock. I've never replaced a Birf on a solid axle Toyota left stock. I've never done ball joints on the torsion bar IFS trucks/4runners left stock. Regardless of how hard I beat on it. I sure as hell never took all the teeth off the reverse gears in the trans just backing out of a space on gravel (admittedly heavy throttle, but I've done that with 35's on my Toyota's more times than I can count).
BUT, the frame isn't broke. 1 point for arse I guess. I really should slap a toyota drivetrain and body on a ranger frame to really fuck with him

Also, me being me, I'm currently in the process of fixing the damn thing, installing a lock-rite in the pre-bent front axle, and looking at modding the drum-brake 8.8 LSD with extra clutches because I can't help myself. After fixing all the brokenness of course

He keeps calling toyota's gay too. Reminds me of this guy:

I think we are going to find images of Toyota's on Arse's search history and a mysterious substance on his keyboard someday

 

[Dan]

God damn, does farse_kuntwords have his shitty fingers in every thread on this board or what?

 

[IowaOffRoad]

God damn, does farse_kuntwords have his shitty fingers in every thread on this board or what?

Those are cumstains from jacking himself off sir, don't besmirch his honor

 

[arse_sidewards]

trying to think of the last time that I even saw a ranger..been a while

Not counting my yard I see a handful of TTB era Rangers and Mazdas a week and easily 10x more of the 98+ ones. They're just a normal car around here, not exceptional at all.

But I also don't live in the hipster douchebag capital of the nation....

God damn, does farse_kuntwords have his shitty fingers in every thread on this board or what?

I only show up where fanboy dumbassery goes un-challenged. Don't wanna see me, stop spewing fanboy bullshit.