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MNR 4600 class 2021 U4 Bronco build

JR4X said:
It’s all in the wording of the rules. We are allowed to remove and replace suspension mounts. However… We cannot touch a cross member. We can weld stuff to a cross member but can’t cut it or remove it. In this case the lower a-arm mounts are cross members.

So replacing the upper a-arm mounts is the same as doing a long arm on a Jeep. Move the mount for more travel better travel etc.
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When I first looked at them, I didn't see the rear housing and high pinion 9" in the pictures above. Is that rear cross member going to be a problem with the driveshaft?
 
665.0coupe said:
When I first looked at them, I didn't see the rear housing and high pinion 9" in the pictures above. Is that rear cross member going to be a problem with the driveshaft?
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Yep. We can’t touch it so we have to limit our uptravel in the rear because of that. If we’d run a low pinion instead we could get 2 inches more up travel. But it would be epically stupid to have all the clearance up front with the portals and then have anchors hanging down in the rear.
 
Bebop said:
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time...
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Except with 35’s as a class limit we don’t need any extra height. Our chicken wings will be flat across that plane if the cross members and the lowers pivot point is in the center of the wheel
 
I wasn't talking about adding height, but changing the geometry / shock location
 
JR4X said:
Yep. We can’t touch it so we have to limit our uptravel in the rear because of that. If we’d run a low pinion instead we could get 2 inches more up travel. But it would be epically stupid to have all the clearance up front with the portals and then have anchors hanging down in the rear.
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Is it against the rules to jump it with no bump stops to let the housing self clearance the cross member? I'd just tell them we miscalculated the bumpstop pads and an "oops" happened. :grinpimp:
 
JR4X said:
Yep. We can’t touch it so we have to limit our uptravel in the rear because of that. If we’d run a low pinion instead we could get 2 inches more up travel. But it would be epically stupid to have all the clearance up front with the portals and then have anchors hanging down in the rear.
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By cant touch it does that mean you cant smash it flat/up?
 
2big bronco said:
By cant touch it does that mean you cant smash it flat/up?
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Having a new Bronco we’re already going to be under a microscope. As much as I’d love to I don’t want to risk it.

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Little mostly full bump pick with the body on. Time to focus on the cage part
 
I just can't believe that lump of medal that is a portal costs that much.

I know it's got a lot of engineering cost to amortize over few units, but still damn.
 
JR4X said:
I ASSume it’s a lot of cnc mill time.
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Look at how much other billet things of similar complexity cost. Machine time isn't free but that only accounts for the first three digits to the left of the decimal. Billet transfer case cases are under $5k. I can get a pair of billet Subaru EJ case halves for $10k.

That tells me there's a lot of R&D in the price.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Is it against the rules to jump it with no bump stops to let the housing self clearance the cross member? I'd just tell them we miscalculated the bumpstop pads and an "oops" happened. :grinpimp:
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It's been a while since I've read the class rules, but I seem to recall language something like "excessive body damage may be considered an illegal modification."
 
FC4X4 said:
It's been a while since I've read the class rules, but I seem to recall language something like "excessive body damage may be considered an illegal modification."
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Good thing that crossmember is on the frame or else doing that might be considered an illegal modification. :laughing:

:flipoff2:
 
arse_sidewards said:
Look at how much other billet things of similar complexity cost. Machine time isn't free but that only accounts for the first three digits to the left of the decimal. Billet transfer case cases are under $5k. I can get a pair of billet Subaru EJ case halves for $10k.

That tells me there's a lot of R&D in the price.
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What's your guesstimate on how much just the blocks of aluminum to make those parts cost? How about the steel for the gears?
 
I have no idea if the gears in those are custom or not but I know the jhf gears are supposed to be crazy expensive to produce
 
arse_sidewards said:
Look at how much other billet things of similar complexity cost. Machine time isn't free but that only accounts for the first three digits to the left of the decimal. Billet transfer case cases are under $5k. I can get a pair of billet Subaru EJ case halves for $10k.

That tells me there's a lot of R&D in the price.
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The billet transfer cases use gears and shafts that have been in production for a long time. I'd bet if you wanted some basically 1 off gears and shafts, the price would over double.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
The billet transfer cases use gears and shafts that have been in production for a long time. I'd bet if you wanted some basically 1 off gears and shafts, the price would over double.
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I don’t disagree but double is still a far cry from the price of the 74weld portals.
 
Weasel said:
It 6k per box. 1/3 materials, 2/3 machine time and i bet the margins are still super thin.
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I thought it was like 17k for the front end.

I bet it's 1/4, 1/4 with some unknown amount of R&D and shop overhead. No way they're banking less than ~1.5k per box seeing as they're the only game in town.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I thought it was like 17k for the front end.

I bet it's 1/4, 1/4 with some unknown amount of R&D and shop overhead. No way they're banking less than ~1.5k per box seeing as they're the only game in town.
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But that also includes billet/tig welded a arms.

The jeep kit is $24k for 4, so only $6k ea :laughing: not very far off your tcase analogy, but you get brakes and a few other parts also.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I thought it was like 17k for the front end.

I bet it's 1/4, 1/4 with some unknown amount of R&D and shop overhead. No way they're banking less than ~1.5k per box seeing as they're the only game in town.
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Nope. Price out materials. And R&D costs of billed out would be astronomical. Most of the time those costs are mostly discarded.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
Wait....wait....wait.... The two portal boxes and the upper/lower arms were only $17k? For some reason or another I thought those cost $24k because they were the "race" version. If all those parts were only $17k he got a deal IMO and arse_sidewards is a fool for thinking otherwise.
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Pretty sure $24k is even way light when including the arms and custom shafts
 
From the beginning of the thread

JR4X said:
The first thing I gotta address is what I said I was going to do. Vs what I am now going to do instead. I already told everyone here that there was no way I could do the portals like the other guys have. If it’s any secret to any of you I’ll tell you for sure now. The 74weld portals are $10,000 dollars…. EACH! And that is NOT every part required to use them. The unit bearings and brakes are a separate cost in addition to the portals themselves. So the portals alone are in the neighborhood of $22,000 dollars all in for a pair of them to run up front.


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So there they are. I said there was no way I could do it but I kinda got peer pressured into it. The reality of the situation is this. I can’t waste this opportunity with Ford. Maybe this is a one and done deal. Maybe if I play my cards right I get to keep racing with Ford factory backing. I talked myself into the portals for the fact that I need to be competitive against true professional drivers. Vaughn and Brad make their living racing. Not having portals was gonna be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. So if you’re disappointed that I already jumped the shark and went the portals route, I don’t blame ya. For the time being it seems like the right move.

Those are Spidertrax 47 spline 6 on 6 1/2 trophy truck unit bearings. These will also be used in conjunction with 47/40 spline RCV shafts with the giant CV’s everyone refers to as Rockwell sized.
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arse_sidewards said:
I just can't believe that lump of medal that is a portal costs that much.

I know it's got a lot of engineering cost to amortize over few units, but still damn.
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74weld is a machine shop that makes offroad parts as a side project, so anytime they are making portals they are not making something else that they can bill for. if you plan on staying in business you have to bill internally the same amount as a paying customer. i worked for a race program that ran some of his early portals and was at his shop a few times for to get some training/instruction on how they went together (OEM gears before he started making straight cut gears, so you had to do some shimming and all kinds of dumb stuff). he was working on govt project stuff, so i was limited on what i could see in the shop so hes not relying on the portals to make the mortgage so hes going to make them worth his time, if i had to guess it scratches an itch of doing something cool.

you can complain about the cost but at the end of the day he knows how to run a profitable business. too many companies in the offroad industry undervalue their time and it impedes their ability to grow and deliver on time.
 
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