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Migrants wounded falling from border wall being sent back to Mexico without help

CDA 455 II said:
The bottom 50% of households (<$130,000 annually) don't pay federal income tax.
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where the hell did you get that number? hell when the bush tax deal went through I didn't pay any income taxes till my kids moved out. I was making 20 bucks hour or so. and that was a good trade job at the time.
 
gunracer1 said:
they should have shot him. he was breaking our laws. I am sick of it, I am tired of paying for these fucking bums/criminals. it is not that hard to do it the right way. instead assholes like you encourage them to break the law coming here. and I love your show of compassion hiring government officials to steal from people to give to them, very compassionate.
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Pretty sure earlier in this thread someone more knowledgeable about the border patrol said they already take care of anyone they apprehend who's injured before they ship them back. That happened during the Trump administration as well. So uh... which government officials did I hire again? It happens under both parties because most normal people know it's the right thing to do.
 
Sterlingfire said:
:rolleyes:Holy fuck you are dumb.
Did i miss where someone said they wanted to gut those programs? Are you making shit up again? Gunracer is literally talking about taking care of illegals, not our own that actually need help:confused:
It seems as though you've lost here. Now you're struggling to gain back some ground. Stop fighting the boogey man, he doesn't exist.
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Sidestep all you want. Before you drug your self into this conversation, we were already talking about programs to help American citizens. I get that you want to just scroll to the last thing I said and start complaining, but for this one you're going to need to read the whole thread.
 
Liberal logic-
“oh the humanity! How could you let someone from another country suffer that is injured simply because they’re not from here?”

also liberal logic-
“I don’t care that people literally work themselves to death in slave shops. My iPhone, clothing and lithium powered car is convenient for me. On top of that, the media didn’t tell me to be outraged, so I don’t care and it’s not happening in our country, so how is that my problem?”
 
CDA 455 II said:
The bottom 50% of households (<$130,000 annually) don't pay federal income tax.
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2 years ago it was 44-47%, and had been for a while. It jumped 3% under Trump? :confused: Seems like a big change.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/howard...s-they-are-not-who-you-think/?sh=1f63174147d7

Just say the number 47 percent and many people know exactly what you are talking about: It was the calculation that the Tax Policy Center did a decade ago of the share of people who pay no federal income tax. At least among tax and political geeks, the number became the numerical equivalent of those celebrities who are so famous that only their first names are necessary: Sort of the LeBron of tax policy.

For some, the number came to symbolize a class of entitled takers who lived their lives getting government benefits while contributing nothing to society. They were this century’s version of Ronald Reagan’s welfare queens. That never was who the 47 percent were (after all, nearly all of them did pay some taxes). But the implication was clear.

Age and non-payers

Now, Don Fullerton of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and Nirupama Rao of the University of Michigan have taken a deeper dive into the 47 percent (now 44 percent according to TPC estimates) Their findings, published in the June edition of the National Tax Journal here and summarized in TaxNotes here (paywall) are fascinating:
  • The likelihood of not paying federal income tax is closely correlated to age: If you are very young or (especially) very old, you are far less likely to pay income tax than if you are working age. Only 11 percent of those age 25-55 do not pay federal income tax while more than 80 percent of those age 75 or older are non-payers.
  • Relatively few people are persistent non-payers. Among those of prime working age who do not pay federal income tax in any given year, nearly one-third will do so for only one year. Almost 6 in 10 will be paying income tax within three years, and just one-in-eight are non-payers for a decade or more.


By the way, Fullerton and Rao found a similar story when it comes to government benefits. If you include Social Security, older adults are far more likely to receive government transfer payments than younger people. And, of course, once they begin receiving Social Security, they will continue to do so for their lifetimes.



But if you exclude their benefits and look only at working age people, the pattern looks a lot like it does for taxes. Among those who receive some government support in one year, 60 percent will get a transfer in the following year. But five years later, only about one-in-five still will be getting benefits. And after 10 years, only about 12 percent still get benefits.

The tax story Fullerton and Rao tell squares with what careful researchers have known for a long time. Nearly half of those paying no federal income tax are retirees living on Social Security benefits. Many others worked but made too little to pay federal income tax. Nonetheless, they still paid sales taxes, payroll taxes, and perhaps state income taxes.

The very old do not pay income tax simply because many make too little to reach the thresholds for owing tax and because Social Security benefits are excluded from Adjusted Gross Income for singles whose income is below $25,000 ($32,000 for couples). Those 65 or older do not even have to file a federal income tax return if they make less than $13,600. Half of those 65 or older receive Social Security benefits of about $15,000 or less.

For their part, low-income working age people often are in and out of the workforce. Women may work—and pay income taxes—until they have a child. Then, they may stop paid work or work part time. Low (or even moderate) earnings, coupled with having children, make families eligible for the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit which often reduce tax liability to zero—or even result in a payment from the government.

Symbolic meaning

Other low-income workers frequently face layoffs or may work seasonal or intermittent jobs, resulting in tax liability one year and none the next.

Fullerton and Rao looked at data over four decades, using a study called the Panel Survey of Income Dynamics (PSID). That panel has some problems—for example people in the survey are now older than the overall US population—but the basic story still holds.

The 47 percent number came to take on a bigger, symbolic meaning: Nearly half of Americans live their lives taking government benefits but contributing nothing. Fullerton and Rao show that while that image is politically enticing for some, it simply is false.
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Rockbuggy84 said:
Liberal logic-
“oh the humanity! How could you let someone from another country suffer that is injured simply because they’re not from here?”

also liberal logic-
“I don’t care that people literally work themselves to death in slave shops. My iPhone, clothing and lithium powered car is convenient for me. On top of that, the media didn’t tell me to be outraged, so I don’t care and it’s not happening in our country, so how is that my problem?”
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You address what you have the power to fix. If someone wrecks your car right in front of you, you pull over and help them. That doesn't mean that you should also be constantly driving around looking for more people to wreck their car.

If some border hopper jumps the fence and hurts themselves, the border patrol finds them and scoops them up. At that point, you'd have to be a pretty calloused individual to chuck them right back across the border without a little basic first aid. According to several people in this thread, we're not, and we do help them. According to a lot of people in the thread, we shouldn't. I'm glad we help them out. Maybe you guys should write your congressmen if you don't like it. :flipoff2:
 
Harry Johnson said:
Hurrdurr there are free loaders. That's a a given. My point was if you kill those programs to fix the free loader problem, then you also screw over those who actually need help.
​​​​
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Not necessarily. Have you ever been inside of one of those offices that administrate "benefits"? If youre one of the preferred types of people the benefits are handed out like candy with little proof requjred OR youre told what "proof" you can show to get benefits.

With proper oversight the benefits programs can be overhauled so that those who truly need it can be helped and those wastes of flesh can be forced to get off their fat asses and take responsibility for themselves.
 
I don't give a fuck what the exact number is. but I damn sure think anyone who doesn't pay federal taxes has no right to vote to steal money from others. the liberal morons have gotten to the point that they know better than everyone else. and ever since, nature is just waiting to do a tidy bowl flush to cleanse the earth. its coming, and it wont be a fake scamedemic either. and in the end the strong will survive and the weak will be gone. its nature, it will win.
 
CDA 455 II said:
44 to 47%; that's still yuge! :eek:


I was still on the dartboard, though.

Wouldn't you agree?
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Still on the dartboard. Fair. 3% in the us is just under 10 million people. I think that 47% number includes dependents, so it might be a little inflated as a result. No one expects a middle schooler to be paying taxes.
 
bgaidan said:
He posted an article arguing the people who retire and draw SS are equivalent to welfare queens. What do you think?
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Yeah, I don't think you read the article all the way through because that definitely wasn't the point. I chose it because it was the most recent article from a reputable source that had researched the percentage number. I thought the write up was interesting because it also shows that of that number, there are quite a few demographics that you wouldn't expect to be paying taxes anyway. It also had some good statistics that showed how long the average person who didn't pay taxes stayed on that list. Most were only for 3 years or less.


Edit: I didn't pay federal taxes while I was in college because I barely made any money and all of it went to pay for school. Should I have not been allowed to vote while that happened? Should anyone who's poor not be able to vote?
 
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gunracer1 said:
I don't give a fuck what the exact number is. but I damn sure think anyone who doesn't pay federal taxes has no right to vote to steal money from others. the liberal morons have gotten to the point that they know better than everyone else. and ever since, nature is just waiting to do a tidy bowl flush to cleanse the earth. its coming, and it wont be a fake scamedemic either. and in the end the strong will survive and the weak will be gone. its nature, it will win.
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You seem to fancy yourself as one of those strong people who will survive. If it's coming, then why are you so mad?
 
Harry Johnson said:
Edit: I didn't pay federal taxes while I was in college because I barely made any money and all of it went to pay for school. Should I have not been allowed to vote while that happened? Should anyone who's poor not be able to vote?
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Hint... government employees who are paid for out of the tax base do not pay taxes...
 
rockota said:
Hint... government employees who are paid for out of the tax base do not pay taxes...
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Your logic doesn't make sense. I give a chunk of my income to federal taxes and to state taxes every paycheck.

Even if you're subscribing to the logic that since I'm a state employee, my state tax just goes back into the cycle of eventually paying me again, I'm still paying out to the fed.
 
DWT said:
The fuck they don't. I paid over $4k which is down from the usual $7-8k I'd have paid if I was working all year. Being a single white male means I pay.
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Yep, and just because your taxes don't account for a huge slice of the overall money, doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like a huge slice to you. Shitty to discount someone's vote just because they're aren't' contributing tens of thousands of dollars in taxes.
 
Harry Johnson said:
Your logic doesn't make sense. I give a chunk of my income to federal taxes and to state taxes every paycheck.

Even if you're subscribing to the logic that since I'm a state employee, my state tax just goes back into the cycle of eventually paying me again, I'm still paying out to the fed.
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If the private sector provides the government with $10.
And the government uses $6 of that to pay workers.
And those workers have a piece of paper that says $2 was withheld for taxes.

How much of the government funds does the government employee contribute?

None.

Your point about fed isn't incorrect.... sort of... when you consider CA gets $1 back in every dollar it sends to the Fed, however, then it's hard to argue that a CA government employee contributes to tax revenues.
 
Harry Johnson said:
Yep, and just because your taxes don't account for a huge slice of the overall money, doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like a huge slice to you. Shitty to discount someone's vote just because they're aren't' contributing tens of thousands of dollars in taxes.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying taxes if they go for things the .fed (WA is sales tax, no income) is supposed to pay for and not pork barrel bullshit or special interest programs. I'm also on board with only being able to vote if you are a net positive tax payer. That not only eliminates the dregs on the bottom but corporate types up top with expert accountant teams.
 
Harry Johnson said:
Yeah, I don't think you read the article all the way through because that definitely wasn't the point. I chose it because it was the most recent article from a reputable source that had researched the percentage number. I thought the write up was interesting because it also shows that of that number, there are quite a few demographics that you wouldn't expect to be paying taxes anyway. It also had some good statistics that showed how long the average person who didn't pay taxes stayed on that list. Most were only for 3 years or less.


Edit: I didn't pay federal taxes while I was in college because I barely made any money and all of it went to pay for school. Should I have not been allowed to vote while that happened? Should anyone who's poor not be able to vote?
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now you got it. no skin in the game, no vote.
 
gunracer1 said:
that I have to feed and house theses dumbasses in the mean time.
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I won't look at state taxes because I have no idea how Texas works. From a fed standpoint, I think 8% of your tax dollars goes to programs that help feed and house the dumbasses.... If you're adding healthcare into the mix (hospitalizing these dumbasses), I think it's another 25% of your tax dollars. If you want to count in social security(I wouldn't, but maybe you are also including old retired people), I think that's just north of 20% of the tax pie.

I'm actually good with that 8% to feed and house the dumbasses. The 25% for healthcare hurts, but I also don't think the US should be a country where people with curable conditions should die just because of lack of money. You guys all disagree with me on that. I get it.

I would be all for some sort of reform that eliminates the parasitic drag from the system and only gets money to those who actually need it, although I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened yet because people are still fighting over the definition of "actually need"
 
gunracer1 said:
now you got it. no skin in the game, no vote.
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Does your vote count more if you contribute more money? Or does it count more if you contribute a higher percentage of your AGI? How do states with no income tax handle that? Do you suddenly have to provide proof that you bought things and paid sales tax? Or does everyone get a vote?
 
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