What's new
By:
Filters

MCI 102-C3 coach to RV - Engine Bay

Thought I had it. SC pump listing didn't have a dimensional drawing and I should have paid more attention. The accessory drives on the engine are SAE A 2-bolt, but have a 2.25" pilot on position 4 and a 2.5"ish pilot at position 2. The gear pump is an actual SAE A with 3.25" pilot.

Gotta sit back and think on this again. Make an adapter? Deal with Vickers pumps? What am I to do in order to mount any other pumps? Position 2 pilot bore doesn't match anything that I can find other than and it looks as though somebody might have taken a hole saw to it in order to enlarge it. Guess I'll go measure for max bore at position 4. I could take the mount extensions to a machine shop to have them bored out to SAE A while referencing center off the bolt holes. Pilot rings to fit up Vickers 2.25" pump pilots would be really simple to make.

896.jpg
 
On to considering using the Vickers pump to supply turbo oil. The steering system on these buses run 40 weight. For whatever reason, the PO added Dexron. I pulled the inlet flange off, curious what the 1/8" NPT plug led to. The plug is on the inlet side. I was hoping it might be on the pressure side.

In order to use the vane pump, I'll have to mount the reservoir at equal or higher height. With Stoner Enterprises in town, I have a nice selection of aluminum bar already faced off. I'll sketch up a quick pilot adapter to be able to use the gear pump, but keep tossing the vane pump idea around.

897.jpg
 
CarterKaft said,

Option 3, run the turbos off engine oil like every 8v92T ever made?
Complicated bus/rv build is complicated :flipoff2:

As to pump types who cares? I wouldn't put much thought in to either being superior.
 
CarterKaft said:
Option 3, run the turbos off engine oil like every 8v92T ever made?
Complicated bus/rv build is complicated :flipoff2:

As to pump types who cares? I wouldn't put much thought in to either being superior.​
Yup yup. Gonna go scrub off the oil filter and oil cooler housings to see if there's any ports available.
 
CarterKaft said:
Where is the factory oil feed port?​
Factory feed comes from a hose that receives oil from a port at the front of the block. There's a plethora of oil and coolant ports on these.
 
Set up the 3" stainless on the lathe to make a clean cut with cutoff wheel in the grinder. Cut another 3" length off to smash in the vice. I think 3" might be a little too short to make the exhaust transition. I'll try 4" next if 3" doesn't pan out.

Got the aluminum bar chunk chucked up and started scratching that down to size to stuff into the stainless tube for another puck. I've gotta jot down another to-do list on the board to keep track of what I'm doing. Lost my marbles with everything going on.

Edit: Puck done and pressed in. I was also running both heaters tonight. One of the front windows is swung open by a few inches, but the heaters still managed to warm up the bus enough to make my exhalation steam disappear. I think the two draw a total of 3kw. Not too shabby.

905.jpg
906.jpg
 
[486] said,

got pipe that fits the radius on the ends of the ports?
just plumb it in that size and make the transitions by splitting the tube and welding in triangles
 
[486] said:
got pipe that fits the radius on the ends of the ports?
just plumb it in that size and make the transitions by splitting the tube and welding in triangles​
I've considered that several times as well. That was the first that came to mind when I thought about switching to twin turbos. I'm lacking a good way to split the pipe down the center. Had to try out the large pipe first.

Edit: Also looks like 1-1/2" schedule 10 (size that fits the end radii) costs just as much as the 3". 3" lengths of the 3" pipe cost about $6.25. Next round of pipe smashing will likely consist of pressing a 6" length in the middle and then cutting that into the two 3" lengths to make the process quicker and easier. More consistent, too. I wasn't quite able to press the 3" length down all the way in my vice because of the greater difference between pressed and round. The pipe shot out of the vice jaws.
 
arse_sidewards said,

You have enough of these to do to justify spending the hour or so it takes with a die grinder and some scrap flat stock to make yourself a set of dies so that you can just stick the pipe in the vise and crank it.
 
arse_sidewards said:
You have enough of these to do to justify spending the hour or so it takes with a die grinder and some scrap flat stock to make yourself a set of dies so that you can just stick the pipe in the vise and crank it.​
Indeed. And it is possibly something that other Detroit 92 series owners might be interested in. Thinking of a quick way to set up a makeshift press to pop these out. I have a spare 20-ton bottle jack.
 
Part of the multi-shipped Summit order included Vibrant Performance 16mm-1.5x8AN adapters for the snail coolant. Went ahead with these. Would have rathered the steel adapters, but Trail Gear's fittings are 6AN and I didn't want to restrict the flow at all if there was no reason to.

913.jpg
 
The effect of ADD. Got a sudden urge to work on the radiators tonight. 3.75" center to center of the ports. 1.375" port OD. Think I'll make a Monday run and grab some planks and a paddle bit to make the temporary radiator frame. I went all the way back to where CarterKaft brought up the folded cores to see if I could find where I mentioned what size copper union fit the ports the ports. No luck.

953.jpg
 
[486] said,
JNHEscher said:
The effect of ADD. Got a sudden urge to work on the radiators tonight. 3.75" center to center of the ports. 1.375" port OD. Think I'll make a Monday run and grab some planks and a paddle bit to make the temporary radiator frame. I went all the way back to where CarterKaft brought up the folded cores to see if I could find where I mentioned what size copper union fit the ports the ports. No luck.​
https://www.petersenproducts.com/Cop...zes-s/1979.htm
 
Left vs. right tonight. Keeping in mind that these are going to be mounting horizontally. They're just a lot easier to handle and mock up vertically until I have a temp frame. I'm really in the mood to get these connected and mounted in the bus.

On the right is the OE orientation. I'm certain that the cores are supposed to be turned enough to allow a specific gap between them so that the assembly wouldn't be insanely restrictive. The fins are super tight, so there has to be some allowance for air bypass. Every time I look at the zigzag arrangement, I think of how much that probably jacks with the air movement.

On the left is what I'm leaning towards while thinking of whether or not there's any reason I can't or shouldn't arrange them all parallel. As shown, they have a 1.75" gap between them (bolt holes are slotted so I got the gap down to 1-3/8"). I've thought about making them be able to pivot like shutters to control the gap. If I find a decent sweet spot, then no need to pivot. I think it would beneficial for high-flow air to slip over them. Being a single row, they should radiate heat to the atmosphere very quickly. The shutter arrangement would aim the air upwards as it exits the rear of the bus.

959.jpg
 
arse_sidewards said,

I think you should strap a pair of box fans with cardboard shrouds to the cores, fill them up with water of a known temperature and then time how long it takes the box fans to bring them down to temp and run whatever configuration minimizes that time.

The bigger your fan the less the radiator configuration matters but you may as well run whatever the most efficient setup is regardless.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I think you should strap a pair of box fans with cardboard shrouds to the cores, fill them up with water of a known temperature and then time how long it takes the box fans to bring them down to temp and run whatever configuration minimizes that time.

The bigger your fan the less the radiator configuration matters but you may as well run whatever the most efficient setup is regardless.​
Kinda doing that. I've been planning to set these up in a temporary frame to set in front of the Hoverhawk fan on the DC motor. Mostly to see how much the resistance slowed down the fan, but the water temp drop is a great idea.
 
Got holes marked and drilled in a couple boards. Those fitted over the ports makes handling the cores a lot easier. Laid them down so I could eyeball the fan some more. The shutter style arrangement spreads the cores out. 22" fan covers four cores well, almost five, a bit small for six. Shroud will take care of any core count.

Six cores is 28" tall. I would have to chop out the step that the miter box for the squirrel fan sat on and the radiators would take up the entire area available. Four cores is 19-1/2", would fit great and leave plenty of room for fans and motors. I'm just a little leery about coolant moving through four cores too quickly and not dropping the temperature sufficiently. Still setting these up as dual-pass. The OE radiator tubes were something like 20" in length. Dual-pass through these Micons is 82" of tube length.

960.jpg
 
The funky predicament I've been tossing around in my head the last couple days - how best to gap the cores so that I can pass a 3/4" shaft between them to drive a puller fan on the other side.

The set of six cores already takes up the max height of 28" I have room for. I'd have to spread the them in the middle by around 5" to pass a shaft through. No problem to do that with four cores, though I still feel like I would be limiting the coolant volume and time to cool too much by only using four cores. Might have to go with pusher fans and call it good so I can use all six cores per side.

Brought the rebuilt motor in the house so I could get an actual motor with fan depth measurement. Got the perfect amount of depth in the radiator box to fit the motor, fan and cores with a nice shroud. Even more if I go for the brushless motors. Stuck the with brushed motors for the time being because brushless was $200 per motor plus shipping.

Also browsing Hoverhawk's larger fans. Six cores in the shutter arrange opens up the possibility of using 26"-28" fan on one motor per side instead of the original plan for two 22" fans per side. I still have a vivid memory of how much stronger the motor was than I anticipated when I ran it WOT. Prop tip speed of a 28" fan is still well under the max and these will be driven by temperature-controlled PWM controllers with soft start.

961.jpg
962.jpg
 
bdkw1 said,
JNHEscher said:
so that I can pass a 3/4" shaft between them to drive a puller fan on the other side.​
Wait, you want to do what?

That just sounds like a bad idea with all sorts of issues down the road.
 
bdkw1 said:
Wait, you want to do what?

That just sounds like a bad idea with all sorts of issues down the road.​
Extend the motor shaft between cores to drive a puller fan, but yes, rather awkward way to go about it. Going pusher since that's far easier and less of a danger to the cores.
 
CarterKaft said:
Will you be blocking those slots in the louver arrangement?​
A little. I plan to build a louver screen of some sort as a rear cover. I'm thinking of making the louvers extend inward in between the cores to help direct the air and close up the gaps a bit. Downside to this is it will probably increase the pressure against the fan. I think the core gaps need to be a little tighter than they are now. Might make a 2D CAD sketch of a side view of the whole assembly so it's all understandable.

My guess that the core fins are really tight steel is that these were designed for extreme duty mining equipment that frequently gets impacted with rocks and other dense debris. I would have preferred to catch the radiator shop before they painted them. The paint clogged a few spots. I'd kinda like the steel fins to rust off so I can start stamping aluminum fins to slip on. Project for later.

Edit: I did find my copper union. I had dropped it behind the cores leaning against the wall so that the kids wouldn't find it and run off with it. It's 1" - slips inside the core ports. I'll check the specs on 1-1/4" to see what I need to do make that slip over the port.
 
Stole some images from Supply House and slapped this amazing copper setup together. Expensive. Half the cores would go in between those unions. I'll be searching for a way to add union couplers to the cores that would join to some mild or stainless tube that I can weld in as part of the rear of the bus frame.

963.jpg
 
Just occurred to me to check the possible fitment of a 1" 1-TPKXL brass tailpiece on the core ports. The ports measure 1.333" OD and the large end of the tapered thread in the tailpiece measure 1.315". Only have to skim 0.009" out the tailpiece ID for it to slip on. This would give me a straight thread nut and flat o-ring for easy core removal and installation between manifolds.

The nut threads are 1.75"-12. There are no AN threads in that size. I'll have to dig to see if there's any tube or bung that matches that thread and has enough area to provide a flat face for the o-ring to seat against. Without some major work, my lathe isn't accurate enough to be cutting threads. As far as I know, the brass tailpieces are intended just for pressure regulators like what I have for our water system. Maybe there's a matching fitting that they work with.

964.jpg
965.jpg
966.jpg
 
Last edited:
Fiddling around with the exhaust some more while visiting in OKC. I've thought about fitting up multiple weld els that match the port radius. 1-1/2" schedule 10 is what fits and Silicone Intake Systems has them in stock for dirt cheap. Every source is Chinese, so might as well get them as cheap as I can and SIS is one of the first places we pass by when we arrive in Colorado Springs.

I have a pair of the Stainless Bros T4 collector flanges on the way. They're arriving to our house on Monday when we get home. I may grab a 2" el from SIS to see how well that fits in the collectors. 2" is the largest that SIS sells. The collectors are cast for 2-1/4" tubing, but case tubing is only available in 1/2" increments.

In the Fusion 360 drawing, I have a pair of 1-1/2" 90 degrees elbows angled together. The rest of 1-1/2" 45 degree elbows. One pair angled together to see how closely they can fit with the 2" and 2-1/2" schedule 10 inside diameters.

967.jpg
968.jpg
969.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh