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MCI 102-C3 coach to RV - Engine Bay

CarterKaft said,
JNHEscher said:
Quick loading is what leans me towards the standalone system and what kindled the separate system idea to begin with. Still need a filter and some sort or pressure restrictor, but nowhere near as much loading and no soot at all. There's diesel nasty, and then there's Detroit two-stroke nasty. Around $50 for a small displacement pump that bolts up.

That Insane Diesel three-stage filter looks pretty cool. $800 for their setup to suit the 8V92 capacity, though. I could do my own three-stage filtration at a reasonable cost. The volume of soot filling the filters is what concerns me the most.​
I think this is where the real honesty about annual hours/miles driven matters.
In my RV everything is Annual maintenance If you pull your turbo filters oil post engine oil filter you're probably fine.

I started this career working on a fleet of -53 and -71 powered drill rigs, my dads crane for 20 years had a 12v-92. I knows Detroit nasty well enough to stay the F away from them LOL
 
CarterKaft said:
I think this is where the real honesty about annual hours/miles driven matters.
In my RV everything is Annual maintenance If you pull your turbo filters oil post engine oil filter you're probably fine.

I started this career working on a fleet of -53 and -71 powered drill rigs, my dads crane for 20 years had a 12v-92. I knows Detroit nasty well enough to stay the F away from them LOL​
Cool engines, but yeah, sounds like you're quite familiar with what I have on hand here lol. I would definitely be sourcing oil post engine filter. Pretty sure there's a port on the mount. Lots of greasy grime to scrub off to find out for sure. I'd pull from there so that the oil is pre-engine pass to avoid any metals.

I really couldn't give a strong guess on annual mileage. There's so much in the air right now. We could stick to the original plan to stay in each location for three months at a time, or go coast to coast several times per year. Mostly depends on my wife's career and how healthcare influences it over the next year or so.

A secondary filter setup for the turbos is the way to start off with. Easy and straightforward. If I feel like tacking on a standalone pump later on, the filtration with already be there.
 
The NRE compressor housings have a flat that appeared to be cut specifically for a seal. Didn't come with a seal. Really don't need a seal. However, a pack of 3x165x171's was very cheap. Perfect fit. Max of 250 degrees, so they may not last.

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Back home and about to void a warranty with a pair of Arizona Performance -3AN oil feed flanges.

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Slow going over the weekend. Waiting for Monday to roll around so I can make some calls and pick up steel. Off and on winter weather, postponing work due to high wind and/or frozen temps. Wife packed for a hotel stay for her two days working in Denver because of the winter advisories, so I may or may not have a vehicle tomorrow.

When I pulled the first oil filter off the other night, I encountered a mild nest of thread whiskers in the port. Spent some time today to clean them out and bolt the flanges on. Looks as though the filter threads didn't care to engage into the port threads very smoothly. You can see right through the filter wires so they weren't good for much other than large particles. Obviously, they were there for good reason, but in my application, I much prefer a tighter filter with more capacity and the ability to be exchanged without interrupting the feed line.

Down to coolant ports. 16mm-1.5 thread. Wandered through Summit Racing's fitting selection last night until I came up with a steel adapter. Everything I found to go from 16-1.5 to -6 or -8 was aluminum and I don't really feel like threading aluminum directly into the iron. Found that the Trail Gear Toyota steering box adapters are 16-1.5 to -6 flare. Likely JIC, but it'll seat just fine.

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Gradually putting together the turbo oil system parts list. Been busy with house repairs.

0.18 cu. in. gear pump from Surplus Center. Yes, I'm going ahead with this instead of engine oil. So much soot in a Detroit that I might as well skip trying to deal with it. These White pumps have tandem tangs on the rear, so I can easily machine a steel pilot ring to stack another pump on if I want.

Some line options for the -8AN pressure side.
Vibrant Performace DIY stuff with all-in-one o-ring to hose end fitting and braided hose.
Fragola assembled steel hose with dirt cheap steel AN o-ring to AN flare of Surplus Center.
Fragola assembled aluminum hose with Vibrant o-ring the flare adapter.

I pulled the Vickers vane pump off to eyeball for the gear pump. Gotta look at it some more to be sure that there's clearance for the hose next to the air compressor. May have to order the pump first and mock it up. Waiting on my bus allowance to place orders with.

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That last pump I posted has a 17mm shaft. Asked about the keyway a few days ago. Got told that the pump comes with a key that should work with 3/16. Kinda vague. Seller on fleabay with a 17mm to 3/4in sleeve is away for a while. Adapting keyed shaft to keyed bore was about the simplest. Looks like I'll adapt splined to keyed instead.

Splined pump is already assembled for the correct rotation (clockwise). Shaft doesn't reach the OE claw coupler. Looks like I found a steering wheel adapter that is really close to fastening to the claw coupler in the same fashion as the Vickers pump shaft. I'll machine the Speedway adapter and splined coupler to press fit together for some tig welding. The claw coupler with then be fastened to the keyed end with a 5/8-18 nut and the coupler with claw will slip onto the splined pump shaft.

Late night ramblings because I'm a little bored and want to order stuff right meow.

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Thinking on this turbo oiling system. The pump is capable of 2,175 psi. 3.35 gpm at 2,100 engine rpm. A spool pressure regulating valve is best way to go that I can think of at the moment that would divert all excess flow back to the pump and maintain an exact pressure to the turbos. I'm also considering an oil accumulator to keep the bearings lubed and cooled as the turbos slow to a stop after the engine is shut off. Don't know how long these NRE turbos will spin for after shutdown, but FYI, the OE Garrett spun for about a minute and a half after shutdown.

Earlier today, I remembered that I thought about using the Vickers vane pump to supply the turbo oil. The VTM42 has a built-in relief valve. Possibly something I could modify to drop the outlet pressure to whatever necessary. I believe the relieve valve is a spool type. From what I can tell, the pressure settings are determined by the landing area of the spool. The model I have reacts to 1,500 psi. There is also a return spring. From the relief pressure valve selection table, you pick the appropriate spool valve and there is only one return spring part number.

Edit: Got some time to focus solely in this tonight. Thinkin' I'll let the oil free flow from the pump, through a filter, and to the turbos. 0.8 gpm at idle and 3.35 gpm at redline as stated before. Splitting that in two between the two turbos isn't too bad. Mostly concerned about pressure building up in -3 lines, but I don't think it will exceed what the turbos can take, especially if I run some low viscosity synthetic.
 
Shoot me some oil cooler reservoir ideas, if'n ya like. Building on the idea to find something reasonably priced, holds somewhere around a gallon, and has something like fins for cooling.

Too bad the mower tank on SC is gone. Pondering a large, aluminum heater core - small, aluminum radiator - typical fluid cooler, etc. Hopefully already adorned with AN/straight-cut threads. Thought about building reservoir made with a borosilicate tube sandwiched between a couple plates, but glass is really only good for viewability of contents.

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aczlan said,

There are numerous all aluminum radiators/intercoolers on eBay, many of which have threaded inlets/outlets, or heavy barbed inlets/outlets which an aluminum bung could be welded to.

Aaron Z
 
CarterKaft said,

Does a power steering pump simplify this system? You really don't need this pump to do any work just flow oil, a internal or external reservoir PS pump belt driven would seem to be very easy to implement and buy replacement parts for on the road.

Conversely could you use the power steering hydraulic system you already have on the Bus?
 
arse_sidewards said:
What kind of volume you looking to hold and what kind of space do you have? 1990s economy car radiator might be the ticket.​
Probably fine with around two quarts, looking for closer to four quarts. Got all kinds of space. 90's Honda is what I was thinking. They have some tiny radiators.
aczlan said:
There are numerous all aluminum radiators/intercoolers on eBay, many of which have threaded inlets/outlets, or heavy barbed inlets/outlets which an aluminum bung could be welded to.

Aaron Z​
Browsing. Back when I was deciding on engine radiators, I had come across a manufacturer that had radiators with AN flares incorporated. That would be sweet. Sure don't feel like wiring up a plug to put my Miller 200 in service, but if I have to...
CarterKaft said:
Does a power steering pump simplify this system? You really don't need this pump to do any work just flow oil, a internal or external reservoir PS pump belt driven would seem to be very easy to implement and buy replacement parts for on the road.

Conversely could you use the power steering hydraulic system you already have on the Bus?​
Yes and no. I flipped around through options for a while. Once I got to sit down and hash this out Sunday evening, I concluded that all I needed was a little flow, hence the smallest volume pump I could find on Surplus Center. I ordered it yesterday. Aside from needing an addition to adapt the splined shaft to the keyed claw in the OE drive, it bolts up. SAE A 2-bolt and clockwise rotation. I'm waiting for that to arrive before I place the orders for the rest of the parts so that I'm sure of everything fitting.

One of the upsides to the gear pump is that is has the rear drive to make it stackable. Also self-priming, whereas the Vickers vane pump for the power steering isn't. This gives me the option to mount the reservoir a bit lower than the pump, though I will avoid doing so as I don't want to rely on the pump be self-priming at all times.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with utilizing the OE gear-driven accessory drives. I have more fun machining parts to fit together than building brackets for belt drives.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Browsing. Back when I was deciding on engine radiators, I had come across a manufacturer that had radiators with AN flares incorporated. That would be sweet. Sure don't feel like wiring up a plug to put my Miller 200 in service, but if I have to...​
Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PLM-Univers...T/183818950640
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W26" x H7" x D2" 1/2" NPT fittings.

Aaron Z
 
87manche said:
a 1990 honda civi radiator is top fill bottom drain and not much larger than that.


my only concern about using a radiator would be oil not flowing fast enough top to bottom.

https://www.amazon.com/DNA-MOTORING-...SIN=B01HXWD8MO

cheaps.​
Cheaps indeed. Gonna keep looking for an oil cooler/radiator/intercooler with threaded fittings welded on. I'm not much a fan of hose clamp type fittings. Thought there might be a racing performance radiator with some AN/SAE thread ports.
Flow is also a top priority here. If the radiator is big enough (has enough tubes)and capacity, it work work. Intercoolers generally have larger tubes. Gonna see what Silicone Intake Systems has since they're 25 minutes away.
aczlan said:
Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PLM-Univers...T/183818950640
s-l600.jpg

W26" x H7" x D2" 1/2" NPT fittings.

Aaron Z​
That's more like it. I think I'll shoot for 3/4" NPT or -12AN threads since I'll be joining two -10AN hoses for the turbo drains together at the cooler/reservoir.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
That's more like it. I think I'll shoot for 3/4" NPT or -12AN threads since I'll be joining two -10AN hoses for the turbo drains together at the cooler/reservoir.​
Something like this for $195:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Northern-20...9/132887474339
Northern 209648 Race Pro Stock Car Aluminum Radiator 3/4" NPT Inlet Outlet 17x19
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This could also work, but its $300:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Transmi...2/183382860115
OBX Transmission Oil Cooler Universal 1" NPT Holes 17 3/4" x 3 1/2" x 10 1/2"
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Aaron Z
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
That. I can definitely use that. Pump draws from the bottom port, petcock used for vent line. A fill port would be great, but I can get around that.​
A tee on the top port would solve that problem...
Looking on their site, they list a line of "Sprint Car Radiators" that have 4x #10 Oring Boss inlets (with a cap on top) and a single 1.5" outlet: https://www.northernfactory.com/Product/209649 (top inlet)
https://www.northernfactory.com/Product/209660 (side inlet)

They also list custom radiators, you might be able to have them make you a sprint car radiator with a threaded fitting on the bottom.

One thought, will this radiator cool too much in the winter when not running it hard?
Would it be worth getting one with a transmission oil cooler and plumbing that to your coolant (with a thermostat) so that you can share heat one way or the other as needed?

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
A tee on the top port would solve that problem...
Looking on their site, they list a line of "Sprint Car Radiators" that have 4x #10 Oring Boss inlets (with a cap on top) and a single 1.5" outlet: https://www.northernfactory.com/Product/209649 (top inlet)
https://www.northernfactory.com/Product/209660 (side inlet)

They also list custom radiators, you might be able to have them make you a sprint car radiator with a threaded fitting on the bottom.

One thought, will this radiator cool too much in the winter when not running it hard?
Would it be worth getting one with a transmission oil cooler and plumbing that to your coolant (with a thermostat) so that you can share heat one way or the other as needed?

Aaron Z​
Reading my mind, sir. I'm searching through rads with auto trans ports for that exact reason. I'll go through the Northern site. Search assistance from everyone is greatly appreciated. I spend entirely too much of my time sorting through and matching up parts.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Reading my mind, sir. I'm searching through rads with auto trans ports for that exact reason. I'll go through the Northern site. Search assistance from everyone is greatly appreciated. I spend entirely too much of my time sorting through and matching up parts.​
The reason I suggested the Sprint car radiators is that with multiple ports, each turbo could dump directly into the radiator (assuming a suction side filter).

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
The reason I suggested the Sprint car radiators is that with multiple ports, each turbo could dump directly into the radiator (assuming a suction side filter).

Aaron Z

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk​
Precisely. I'm digging that and the fact that the o-ring ports are already -10. Lacking the threaded outlet, though. Perhaps I'll break out the AC tig - it's been a while.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
Precisely. I'm digging that and the fact that the o-ring ports are already -10. Lacking the threaded outlet, though. Perhaps I'll break out the AC tig - it's been a while.​
If you break it out, they have kits that are welded up, but the ports ship loose, you pick what you want and where you want it, drill it out, then weld it in: https://www.northernfactory.com/HIGH.../RADIATORS/ALL

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
If you break it out, they have kits that are welded up, but the ports ship loose, you pick what you want and where you want it, drill it out, then weld it in: https://www.northernfactory.com/HIGH.../RADIATORS/ALL

Aaron Z​
I found those last night. Eyeing this one - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Northern-20...oAAOSw8R9cCvPq

I think it's either the blank Northern or grab something super cheap from U Pull and Pay down the road to dismantle. Wouldn't be too difficult to cut the tabs to pull the plastic tanks off and weld up new tanks. I still have all the aluminum sheet that we pulled down from the bus ceiling.

Edit: So UPAP wants more for their used radiators than what a brand new one costs. Honda stuff, of course. Blank Northern it is, unless something else pops up between now and when I get the next round of bus funds.
 
aczlan said,
JNHEscher said:
I found those last night. Eyeing this one - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Northern-20...oAAOSw8R9cCvPq

I think it's either the blank Northern or grab something super cheap from U Pull and Pay down the road to dismantle. Wouldn't be too difficult to cut the tabs to pull the plastic tanks off and weld up new tanks. I still have all the aluminum sheet that we pulled down from the bus ceiling.

Edit: So UPAP wants more for their used radiators than what a brand new one costs. Honda stuff, of course. Blank Northern it is, unless something else pops up between now and when I get the next round of bus funds.​
Might see if Northern will sell direct and if they will swap the weld in barbed fittings for threaded bungs.
If you want the oil cooler blank radiator in that size, you want the 204100BC, but its $60 more: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Radi...r/133268926956

Aaron Z
 
CarterKaft said,

You know me...

What about an engine oil cooler? I don't think you are wanting to add more cores to your cooling package and who knows exactly how much cooling it needs?
Use the engine oil cooler mount where ever and plumb in some engine water lines, external power-steering reservoir for the sump? Do you still need a filter for this turbo oil system? Something like this, it's tiny but there are plenty of options. Should be able to easily weld some AN bungs to the different variants, google BMW/Porsche engine oil cooler.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Oil-Cooler-for-BMW-E46-E60-E81-E87-E90-316i-318i-318ci-318ti-X1-X3/274115558560?fits=Make:BMW&hash=item3fd28f7ca0:g:0 wIAAOSwrL9d3W~H
 
CarterKaft said:
You know me...

What about an engine oil cooler? I don't think you are wanting to add more cores to your cooling package and who knows exactly how much cooling it needs?
Use the engine oil cooler mount where ever and plumb in some engine water lines, external power-steering reservoir for the sump? Do you still need a filter for this turbo oil system? Something like this, it's tiny but there are plenty of options. Should be able to easily weld some AN bungs to the different variants, google BMW/Porsche engine oil cooler.​
I think I do lol. I'm still leaning towards something like what you're suggestion. What I absolutely loathe about radiator cores is their susceptibility to damage and small tubes getting clogged.

I'm thinking about using another Earl's filter mount - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-2077erl
Catch pump metal and double as a T/Y fitting to split the feed to each turbo. Kinda pricey to put together, though. I could probably get by with just a reservoir large enough to let bubbles stay afloat. I'm not yet sure how much back pressure the turbines will see. Turbo oil gets pretty friggin' hot. I'll see what all I can come up with for an internal res cooler.


Edit: I keep coming back to that hydrostatic res. They were $50 on SC. $240 everywhere else. Four ports, fins, two-quart capacity, fill cap, and integrated filter mount.
 
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