Looking for a new trailer. Weights and capacities have me confused.

[Krackle959]

You're most likely over 11k lbs towing a mini with proper tongue wieght. Newer diesels seem to run around 5k lbs on the front tires, then rear coming in at 6k wouldn't be crazy at all, especially if you have a transfer tank or and heavy stuff in the bed.

Could be, no transfer tank in the bed. Both places have off-road tanks onsite. Mini ex weighs 9,600 lbs, trailer weighs 5,000 lbs. Even at 15% tongue weight, that’s 2,250 lbs. Truck sticker says people/cargo load of 3,930 lbs, and GVWR of 11,700. I’ll have to run it across a scale this spring, I weighed the truck at work when I bought it and it was just over 8,000 lbs with fuel and driver.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Could be, no transfer tank in the bed. Both places have off-road tanks onsite. Mini ex weighs 9,600 lbs, trailer weighs 5,000 lbs. Even at 15% tongue weight, that’s 2,250 lbs. Truck sticker says people/cargo load of 3,930 lbs, and GVWR of 11,700. I’ll have to run it across a scale this spring, I weighed the truck at work when I bought it and it was just over 8,000 lbs with fuel and driver.

Maybe I'm underestimating how much shit we pack in our trucks. Last time I was in a 3500 duramax at work, it was 7k on the rear axle alone, with a 55 mini behind it.

Shit, my F350 was 5200/5800 with just my empty gooseneck hooked up of course the bed isn't empty though.

 

[Gbkeith]

I’d like to be able to get a factory srw F350 with 285/75r18’s and an 8100lb rear axle rating.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

FTFY.
IMO, given the advancements in trucks since that law was passed, we should raise the threshold for a CDL to allow towing a 15-25k trailer with a F350/F450/F550/3500/4500/5500 size truck.
Perhaps add 5-15k to both numbers?
Make the CDL limit a 35k truck GVWR with a 15-25k trailer?
Or even keep the truck GVWR at 26k and raise the trailer GVWR threshold from 10k to 15-25k.

Aaron Z

The #1 dumbest thing about the 26k CDL requirement is it is based on RATINGS, not WEIGHTS. I realize it’s to keep them from having to weigh every single vehicle on the side of the road, but a DRW F-350 (pretty sure they are 13,500 now) with an EMPTY 14k equipment trailer is over weight and requires a CDL.

A lot of guys buy that combo and haul a 4000 lb Kubota tractor on it, as it allows them to upgrade to a medium sized skid steer down the line.

I’d be ok with a “CDL Lite” weekend course for $250 that covers safety type stuff for hauling loads like those for personal or limited local business use. They basically make the certification enough of a PITA that half the people just ignore it. Doesn’t bother me, but I’d opt for being legal.

 

[Big4x4ride]

Trying to discuss weights/law requirements on the internet is like discussing politics, religion, or sports. People get blind to the facts, and believe their opinion is the gospel.

 

[arse_sidewards]

A lot of guys buy that combo and haul a 4000 lb Kubota tractor on it, as it allows them to upgrade to a medium sized skid steer down the line.

I’d be ok with a “CDL Lite” weekend course for $250 that covers safety type stuff for hauling loads like those for personal or limited local business use. They basically make the certification enough of a PITA that half the people just ignore it. Doesn’t bother me, but I’d opt for being legal.

It will never happen. Follow the money.

Bureaucrat and LEO pieces of shit want to keep the power of arbitrary enforcement and big fines. There is no benefit to those people being legal because they can ignore them and the downside would be they lose the ability to capriciously fuck people out of a lot of money.

Meanwhile CDL training and related shit is a huge racket. You've got assholes cranking out steering wheel holders and employers paying for it. A huge chunk of that would go poof if employers could just make the guys who need to tow a skid steer twice a year go take a weekend course rather than hire from the pool of CDL drivers.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

It will never happen. Follow the money.

Bureaucrat and LEO pieces of shit want to keep the power of arbitrary enforcement and big fines. There is no benefit to those people being legal because they can ignore them and the downside would be they lose the ability to capriciously fuck people out of a lot of money.

Meanwhile CDL training and related shit is a huge racket. You've got assholes cranking out steering wheel holders and employers paying for it. A huge chunk of that would go poof if employers could just make the guys who need to tow a skid steer twice a year go take a weekend course rather than hire from the pool of CDL drivers.

Except no one is hiring cdl guys to haul a skid steer twice a year. most places just buy a 9999 trailer with 14 or 16k of axles under it and hope for the best.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

Just read thru this thread as I am in the process of trying to obtain the proper licensing to haul two crawlers (around 13000 pounds) on a 34' aluminum triple axle (4200 pounds) with a GVW of 21k. I have a newer SRW F350 with a GVW of 11500 and 6.5' bed. To figure out what type of license I would need, I drove over to my local CHP office and asked giving all the details of my set up and what I plan to tow, weight, etc. The nice CHP officer told me all I needed was a Non-Commercial Class A license. So I headed over to my local DMV office in Grass Valley to begin the process. They also agreed that all I needed was a non-commercial A, so I took the written test, passed, and then scheduled for my driver/skill test at a different commercial DMV office in Yuba City that handles these type of driver tests.

Yesterday was the day of my driver test. Soon as I pulled up, the test givers were shaking their head no. Problem one was that I was over 50 foot in length and this particular test site can only test rigs no longer than 50 feet. Second problem was that they said I needed a commercial class A to legally haul this set up and that both the CHP officer and my local DMV were wrong.

My next step is to contact a couple local trucking schools and see what it's going to take/cost to get a commercial A. Honestly i get why some of these regulations are in place, but it still makes no sense to me to have to get a commercial license when I am not hauling commercially.

Flame suit on.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Just read thru this thread as I am in the process of trying to obtain the proper licensing

There's your first fuck up. Free men don't ask permission.

CHP

Oh, now the boot licking makes sense. He's from California.

Yesterday was the day of my driver test. Soon as I pulled up, the test givers were shaking their head no. Problem one was that I was over 50 foot in length and this particular test site can only test rigs no longer than 50 feet. Second problem was that they said I needed a commercial class A to legally haul this set up and that both the CHP officer and my local DMV were wrong.

My next step is to contact a couple local trucking schools and see what it's going to take/cost to get a commercial A. Honestly i get why some of these regulations are in place, but it still makes no sense to me to have to get a commercial license when I am not hauling commercially.

Flame suit on.

The fuck? Are you stupid? The DMV and the CHP both say you need a non-commercial. They're the ones who will be doing the enforcement. Why would you listen to the idiots at the driving school. The DMV writes the rules and the cops are doing the enforcement. They're who's opinions you care about.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

There's your first fuck up. Free men don't ask permission.

Oh, now the boot licking makes sense. He's from California.

The fuck? Are you stupid? The DMV and the CHP both say you need a non-commercial. They're the ones who will be doing the enforcement. Why would you listen to the idiots at the driving school. The DMV writes the rules and the cops are doing the enforcement. They're who's opinions you care about.

The question is are you stupid? Did you read my post and comprehend? As I wrote, the commercial office DMV that was to administer the driving/.skill portion of the test said that the regular DMV office who had me take the paper test and CHP officer who advised me had it wrong. They then pointed to the page in the DMV handbook that backs up what they just told me. And who said I'm asking permission? I've already hauled this trailer around since buying it and plan to be in Moab with it for EJS.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Just read thru this thread as I am in the process of trying to obtain the proper licensing to haul two crawlers (around 13000 pounds) on a 34' aluminum triple axle (4200 pounds) with a GVW of 21k. I have a newer SRW F350 with a GVW of 11500 and 6.5' bed. To figure out what type of license I would need, I drove over to my local CHP office and asked giving all the details of my set up and what I plan to tow, weight, etc. The nice CHP officer told me all I needed was a Non-Commercial Class A license. So I headed over to my local DMV office in Grass Valley to begin the process. They also agreed that all I needed was a non-commercial A, so I took the written test, passed, and then scheduled for my driver/skill test at a different commercial DMV office in Yuba City that handles these type of driver tests.

Yesterday was the day of my driver test. Soon as I pulled up, the test givers were shaking their head no. Problem one was that I was over 50 foot in length and this particular test site can only test rigs no longer than 50 feet. Second problem was that they said I needed a commercial class A to legally haul this set up and that both the CHP officer and my local DMV were wrong.

My next step is to contact a couple local trucking schools and see what it's going to take/cost to get a commercial A. Honestly i get why some of these regulations are in place, but it still makes no sense to me to have to get a commercial license when I am not hauling commercially.

Flame suit on.

Government at it's finest.

I would try and find a different site to test in your current rig for a noncommercial A. Annoying as hell, and how does a commercial test site only test 50 foot rigs? A crew cab pickup and a 20' bumper pull has to be close to that limit. I'd call other sites and ask their rig length limits and schedule for there. Or can you borrow/rent a shorter trailer and use it just to test?

I'd side with the CHP and other DMV employees, especially as you aren't hauling commercially. Those DMV test givers are used to saying no so that they can skate out of the work, the head shake as you drove up confirmed that.

Hell, when doing my CDL driving test, the tester asked why I didn't put on 4 ways crossing a railroad track (had stopped and waited for a train). Confused the hell out of me, so I said, "Umm, this isn't a school bus or hazmat, I only have soybeans in the trailer." She thought for a second, gave a "hmmm" and we kept going.

One thing I'll give NoDak (doesn't help you) is there's not a commercial/non commercial Class A, but you can have a class A and not carry a medical card by filling out a form basically saying you're exempt / not involved in interstate commerce.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Just googled CA DMV non commercial...

is it seriously just for travel trailers and livestock?

 

[aczlan]

Just read thru this thread as I am in the process of trying to obtain the proper licensing to haul two crawlers (around 13000 pounds) on a 34' aluminum triple axle (4200 pounds) with a GVW of 21k. I have a newer SRW F350 with a GVW of 11500 and 6.5' bed. To figure out what type of license I would need, I drove over to my local CHP office and asked giving all the details of my set up and what I plan to tow, weight, etc. The nice CHP officer told me all I needed was a Non-Commercial Class A license. So I headed over to my local DMV office in Grass Valley to begin the process. They also agreed that all I needed was a non-commercial A, so I took the written test, passed, and then scheduled for my driver/skill test at a different commercial DMV office in Yuba City that handles these type of driver tests.

Yesterday was the day of my driver test. Soon as I pulled up, the test givers were shaking their head no. Problem one was that I was over 50 foot in length and this particular test site can only test rigs no longer than 50 feet. Second problem was that they said I needed a commercial class A to legally haul this set up and that both the CHP officer and my local DMV were wrong.

My next step is to contact a couple local trucking schools and see what it's going to take/cost to get a commercial A. Honestly i get why some of these regulations are in place, but it still makes no sense to me to have to get a commercial license when I am not hauling commercially.

Flame suit on.

So, 11,500GVWR truck with a 21k GVWR trailer hauling your crawlers around for recreation (ie: not racing for money)?
Digging a little, it looks like CA does not allow a "Non-commercial Class A DL" to tow trailers over 10k GVWR (other than RVs and livestock trailers) per: https://bchcsjsu.org/uploads/3/4/7/0/34706757/chp.pdf
And the CA flowchart linked to earlier updated for your use case: https://www.chp.ca.gov/CommercialVehicleSectionSite/Documents/Driver License Flowcharts.pdf

So, the Yuba City DMV was correct, the Grass Valley DMV and the CHP Officer were incorrect.
Your options appear to be either get Class A CDL, or drop down to a 14,499# trailer with more pin weight (to keep under 26k GCWR and not need anything special for a license).
One of the "2 day CDL schools" such as: Contact Us • Ross Enterprises, LLC (a friend knows some people who went through them) or Ozark CDL, LLC - Services might be your best bet.

Aaron Z
Edited to correct my misconception that a Non-commercial Class A DL could tow a 10-15k trailer that wasn't a RV or livestock trailer

 

[aczlan]

Just googled CA DMV non commercial...

is it seriously just for travel trailers and livestock?

Only between 10,000# and 14,999# GVWR with a GCWR over 26,000#.

Aaron Z

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Or trailers between 10,000# and 14,999#

Aaron Z

Livestock trailers between 10k and 15k

Damn they love screwy laws.

 

[aczlan]

Livestock trailers between 10k and 15k

Damn they love screwy laws.

Livestock or RV...

Aaron Z

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

So, the Yuba City DMV was correct, the Grass Valley DMV and the CHP Officer were incorrect.
Your options appear to be either get Class A CDL, or drop down to a 14,999# trailer with more pin weight and a Non-commercial Class A DL.
One of the "2 day CDL schools" such as: Ozark CDL, LLC - Services might be your best bet.

Aaron Z

From the chart, he'd have to derate to a 10k trailer.

My next step is to contact a couple local trucking schools and see what it's going to take/cost to get a commercial A. Honestly i get why some of these regulations are in place, but it still makes no sense to me to have to get a commercial license when I am not hauling commercially.

May be cheaper if you mention that you've already taken the written tests and if you're willing to have an airbrake restriction.

Although if you're going through the BS, might as well get the full A. Then you can start a fleet of IH semis.

 

[Lowrollin70gmc]

Livestock or RV...

Aaron Z

RV doesn't have an upper weight limit, but livestock is the 10k-15k window.

But still useless to IHpartsjeff

 

[ihpartsjeff]

Government at it's finest.

I would try and find a different site to test in your current rig for a noncommercial A. Annoying as hell, and how does a commercial test site only test 50 foot rigs? A crew cab pickup and a 20' bumper pull has to be close to that limit. I'd call other sites and ask their rig length limits and schedule for there. Or can you borrow/rent a shorter trailer and use it just to test?

I'd side with the CHP and other DMV employees, especially as you aren't hauling commercially. Those DMV test givers are used to saying no so that they can skate out of the work, the head shake as you drove up confirmed that.

Hell, when doing my CDL driving test, the tester asked why I didn't put on 4 ways crossing a railroad track (had stopped and waited for a train). Confused the hell out of me, so I said, "Umm, this isn't a school bus or hazmat, I only have soybeans in the trailer." She thought for a second, gave a "hmmm" and we kept going.

One thing I'll give NoDak (doesn't help you) is there's not a commercial/non commercial Class A, but you can have a class A and not carry a medical card by filling out a form basically saying you're exempt / not involved in interstate commerce.

I thought about trying another test site in West Sacramento or renting a travel trailer with a GVW of 14999 and continuing on with the non-commercial A. Still weighing my options.

Just googled CA DMV non commercial...

is it seriously just for travel trailers and livestock?

Unfortunately yes.

So, 11,500GVWR truck with a 21k GVWR trailer hauling your crawlers around for recreation (ie: not racing for money)?
Digging a little, it looks like CA does not allow a "Non-commercial Class A DL" to tow trailers over 10k GVWR (other than RVs and livestock trailers) per: https://bchcsjsu.org/uploads/3/4/7/0/34706757/chp.pdf
And the CA flowchart linked to earlier updated for your use case: https://www.chp.ca.gov/CommercialVehicleSectionSite/Documents/Driver License Flowcharts.pdf

So, the Yuba City DMV was correct, the Grass Valley DMV and the CHP Officer were incorrect.
Your options appear to be either get Class A CDL, or drop down to a 14,499# trailer with more pin weight (to keep under 26k GCWR and not need anything special for a license).
One of the "2 day CDL schools" such as: Ozark CDL, LLC - Services might be your best bet.

Aaron Z
Edited to correct my misconception that a Non-commercial Class A DL could tow a 10-15k trailer that wasn't a RV or livestock trailer

Yes not for money or racing when using this setup. Also should mention the trailer is a bumper pull. Unfortunately for me Yuba City DMV was correct for California law.

Although my company name is on the crawler, the crawler, trailer and F350 are all personally titled to me and not my company. But yes there are times I will be technically hauling for money when I'm taking the rig to and using it for lets say Ultimate Adventure.

Thanks for the Ozark school. I'll check them out.

 

[aczlan]

From the chart, he'd have to derate to a 10k trailer.

I corrected it now. I had read it as a Non-commercial Class A DL could tow a 10-15k trailer with a GCWR over 26k.
Looks like he could derate to a 14,499 trailer with 2-3k of pin weight for that load and be under 26k GCWR, but that would be pushing it.

May be cheaper if you mention that you've already taken the written tests and if you're willing to have an airbrake restriction.

If you are going to pay to get it, you may as well go all the way and get a non-restricted one...

Aaron Z

 

[ihpartsjeff]

From the chart, he'd have to derate to a 10k trailer.

May be cheaper if you mention that you've already taken the written tests and if you're willing to have an airbrake restriction.

Although if you're going through the BS, might as well get the full A. Then you can start a fleet of IH semis.

At this point I believe I need to first get a medical check, then head back to the DMV and take the commercial written test. Then I'll be ready for trucker school. But I am still a few phone calls away from finding out for sure.

And that's what the DMV test guy said, if I'm going to go thru all the trouble that I might as well get the full license.

 

[arse_sidewards]

They then pointed to the page in the DMV handbook that backs up what they just told me.

Law means what the cops enforcing it think it means.

Rent a 20ft bumper pull and go back to the test site.

Stop caring about the letter of the law. If you've decided that you want a noncommercial class A then just through the dumb hoops to get it.

 

[ihpartsjeff]

Law means what the cops enforcing it think it means.

Rent a 20ft bumper pull and go back to the test site.

Stop caring about the letter of the law. If you've decided that you want a noncommercial class A then just through the dumb hoops to get it.

Agreed on that. The CHP officer who I first spoke with essentially said he would be looking for a non-commercial A if he pulled me over towing what looked like recreational vehicles.

I have a shorter bumper pull car trailer I could use and try.

 

[aczlan]

Thanks for the Ozark school. I'll check them out.

Also check out Contact Us • Ross Enterprises, LLC
A friend knows a couple of people who used them and said they made it painless to get their CDL.

Aaron Z

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Agreed on that. The CHP officer who I first spoke with essentially said he would be looking for a non-commercial A if he pulled me over towing what looked like recreational vehicles.

I have a shorter bumper pull car trailer I could use and try.

Either register the trailer for 9999lbs and carry on, or just rent a real semi and get a full class a. Nothing in between is really worth the time.

What's the point of using a different trailer? Then you're worse off that you are with your current class C because you actually know you're doing something wrong.

Say down the road you want a different truck, then get pulled over by chp who are typically dicks, now you have to do all the same shit again to get whatever license they deem necessary.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Either register the trailer for 9999lbs and carry on, or just rent a real semi and get a full class a. Nothing in between is really worth the time.

What's the point of using a different trailer? Then you're worse off that you are with your current class C because you actually know you're doing something wrong.

Say down the road you want a different truck, then get pulled over by chp who are typically dicks, now you have to do all the same shit again to get whatever license they deem necessary.

Disagree. F450/550 or even a new 350 with a 10k plus trailer falls into the same reg as a semi with our current license laws.

Moving from my f550 and enclosed goose to a semi with camper or even the same trailer would be a hell of a leap.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Disagree. F450/550 or even a new 350 with a 10k plus trailer falls into the same reg as a semi with our current license laws.

Moving from my f550 and enclosed goose to a semi with camper or even the same trailer would be a hell of a leap.

How would you know what falls into a California non Comercial class a if even the chp and dmv don't?

Even if he takes the test for a cdl class a in that truck and trailer, he'll have a big list of restrictions and would not be able to legally drive a semi.

 

[CarterKraft]

Law means what the cops enforcing it think it means.

Rent a 20ft bumper pull and go back to the test site.

Stop caring about the letter of the law. If you've decided that you want a noncommercial class A then just through the dumb hoops to get it.

My buddy used his 10k bumper pull dump trailer and the DMV officer had a fit said it wasn't possible but when he showed the law print out she made an "acception" this time and passed him by 1 point just to be a bitch

 

[CarterKraft]

In Texas a "commercial" drivers license means you can't differ to judication speeding tickets so that's a no go for me. My professional driving license should not effect my personal insurance rates...

So I will keep a NON commercial license regardless.

 

[arse_sidewards]

In Texas a "commercial" drivers license means you can't differ to judication speeding tickets so that's a no go for me. My professional driving license should not effect my personal insurance rates...

So I will keep a NON commercial license regardless.

Exactly.

The fact that they think they have more to lord over you and the decreased burden to prosecute shit makes you a magnet for law enforcement. Sure, you'll probably get let off when a cop decides to pull you over for driving like a dick but if a cop is sitting there with an ALPR deciding who he can make the most money from it's gonna be the CDL guy in his personal car every time.