Fuck the law.....
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Looking for a new trailer. Weights and capacities have me confused.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
You guys can interpret it how ever you want.
26k gross combined vehicle wieght is clear to me.
Get stopped by dot at 36k lbs with a non cdl and let me know how it goes
I've spoon fed you the federal documents. There are also a half dozen official state interpretations posted above that agree with the feds.
Talk yourself into a legal setup being illegal. It only effects you.
And I have a CDL
and can read 
.
Oh, and the rolling scales are easy to beat. Pull into the right lane just before the scale and then back in the left after said scale. Sign to pull in doesn't light up and the DOT cops are none the wiser. If the rolling scales go across both lanes put the drivers side tires in the break down lane and it won't flag you either. I've been doing this shit for 8yrs in my service truck and personal vehicles and have never had an issue.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
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I've never seen rolling scales around here. They have an inductive loop in the ground or a radar thing above the road to detect "big" vehicles and alert the pigs running the weigh station a mile down the road to be on the lookout.
Do you mean passenger tires in the breakdown lane or is the left lane considered a breakdown lane too down south?
Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri and a couple other states around here have them. Most all of them are in the left lane about a mile before the weigh station but a couple states have them across both lanes.
Drivers side tires over the white line in the high speed lane, scales stop before the line so only half the weight gets recorded.
Dude, you really need to leave Massachusetts more.....
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I didn't read every word, just keep seeing "over 26k gross COMBINED wieght is cdl"
I just don't see where you guys are missing that?
Talk yourself into a legal setup being illegal. It only effects you.
And I have a CDL
Doesn't effect me, I also have a cdl.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
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I've lived in almost every state in New England as well as a decent amount of time living in the states in the DC area.
That's more than most people can say.
Things are a lot different once you leave the east coast.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
That's like saying you've sucked very color and size of dick and still don't like it
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
I didn't read every word, just keep seeing "over 26k gross COMBINED wieght is cdl"
I just don't see where you guys are missing that?
Doesn't effect me, I also have a cdl.
Read one word: inclusive.
GCWR inclusive of a GVWR trailer over 10k.
That means it is exclusive of trailers 10k and under.
Post #52 is a federal document written to address this exact thing. How to calculate GCWR.
Manufacturer's stated GCWR isn't a legal FMCSA thing unless it's written on the vehicle data plate/decal. In absence of that decal, which doesn't exist on 99% of vehicles, GCWR is calculated by scaling or by adding together all vehicle GVWR inclusive of >10k GVWR trailers, therefore excluding the GVWR of a 10k and under trailer in the GCWR calculation.
There is no federal DOT enforcement agency, so having multiple state DOT and highway patrols (including California of all places) come up with handy little flow charts and FAQs saying the exact same thing makes me damn comfortable that the law is as written.
Inclusive.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
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I've been to the midwest several times but I don't think I've spend enough time there to act like I know the place. You don't really get a feel for a place just driving through.
Contrast that with the carpetbagging pieces of shit from California that think they know better than the locals within the day and start trying to play it off like they're locals after a week....
I have little interest in spending much time west of the Mississippi save maybe the more northern parts. Something about lack of abundant water seems to make an unacceptably large proportion of people into massive pieces of shit.
So then what is New England's excuse? Plenty of fresh and salt water in those places yet also filled with massive pieces of shit.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Well, read the rest of the words including the ones from your own state DOT which SPECIFICALLY ask if trailer is under 10,001 GVWR.
Here is the Idaho flowchart again, note that this is the 3rd page of the July 2023 revision of the "Idaho Commercial Driver's License Manual" and the page is titled:
Follow the red line Yota Supertrucker and see what YOUR state DOT says IN THE CDL TRAINING MANUAL about what weights trigger the requirement for a CDL: https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/cdl_manual.pdf
Aaron Z
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
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He wouldn't know because he's not from Idaho.
aczlan
Good Morning!
He is not originally from ID, but is currently an ID resident, correct?
That's close enough for an Internet argument
Aaron Z
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
What are we arguing again I am lost.He is not originally from ID, but is currently an ID resident, correct?
That's close enough for an Internet argument
Aaron Z
Trailer with over 10001 gvw and truck with a GCVW of 26001 = class A
Trailer at 10k no class A?
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
Trailer gvw over 10k?Fuck the law.....
I do the same gonna plead dumb and hope for the best.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
He is not originally from ID, but is currently an ID resident, correct?
That's close enough for an Internet argument
Aaron Z
Had a class a permit in CA and then got a permit and license here.
So you're on the 36k lbs gcwr if you're trailer is under 10k also?
I can see how some of the cartoon flow charts make it seem like it's possible. Just seems odd that every other thing over ever read or heard says over 26k lbs is cdl, end of story.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
Correct.
Truck GVWR 26000 pulling trailer GVWR 10000 = normal license
Truck GVWR 26000 pulling trailer GVWR 10001 = CDL A
Common one (pickup and equipment trailer):
DRW truck GVWR 13000 pulling trailer GVWR 14000 = CDL A
SRW truck GVWR 10000 pulling trailer GVWR 14000 = normal license
Extreme other end:
Subaru GVWR 5000 pulling trailer GVWR 21001 = CDL A
Subaru GVWR 5000 pulling trailer GVWR 21000 = normal license
All of the above assuming (Subaru) that tire and GAWR isn't exceeded.
Last edited:
aczlan
Good Morning!
Yes as long as the 2nd option has the truck at 26k or less (26,001# GVWR on the tow vehicle=CDL of some sort).
So without a CDL you can legally have either:
- A 26k GCWR with a trailer that has a GVWR of 10,001# or more
- A 36k GCWR with a truck that has a GVWR of 26k towing a trailer with a GVWR of 10k.
Break the 10,000# trailer GVWR and you are limited to 26,000# GCWR without a CDL
Edit, looks like Lowrollin70gmc beat me to it.
Aaron Z
In the weekend warrior world, how many 16-26k trucks are out there and how many are towing under 10k? Go under 16 on the truck or over 10 on the trailer (every damn pickup truck), and it’s way easier to shorten it to 26=class A.
I can see it reading the full text, but again, how many combos out there meet it.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
Wrapping it back to the OP.
With a regular license, you can pull a 16000 GVWR trailer behind your 10000 GVWR pickup. Your pickup did not leave the factory with a GCWR decal, and I assume you haven't added one. So the roadside GCWR is adding the GVWRs together or scaling you, whichever is greater.
You do, however, have to stay within your GAWRs and tire ratings. (And I'm sure could get a ticket for exceeding pickup GVWR if your registration matches the 10k GVWR and your steer and drive combine to >10k).
That's the legal part.
Now, is it smart to exceed what you wrote to be the OEM's GCWR of 19040 lbs?
If there's an accident will that be an insurance or liability issue?
Those are separate from licensing and scale house issues.
With a regular license, you can pull a 16000 GVWR trailer behind your 10000 GVWR pickup. Your pickup did not leave the factory with a GCWR decal, and I assume you haven't added one. So the roadside GCWR is adding the GVWRs together or scaling you, whichever is greater.
You do, however, have to stay within your GAWRs and tire ratings. (And I'm sure could get a ticket for exceeding pickup GVWR if your registration matches the 10k GVWR and your steer and drive combine to >10k).
That's the legal part.
Now, is it smart to exceed what you wrote to be the OEM's GCWR of 19040 lbs?
If there's an accident will that be an insurance or liability issue?
Those are separate from licensing and scale house issues.
Last edited:
aczlan
Good Morning!
From the UHaul FAQ for their 26' truck:
www.uhaul.com
On the lawyer side, if you needed a CDL to tow with their 25,999# GVWR truck, they would say so (like Ryder and Penske do for their CDL sized trucks), otherwise someone who didn't have a CDL and got a ticket for driving out of class could sue them for not advising them.
Aaron Z
26ft Moving Truck Rental | U-Haul
The largest moving truck available at U-Haul, the 26ft moving truck is ideal for moving 5-8 room homes and designed for easy loading and comfortable driving.
www.uhaul.com
On the lawyer side, if you needed a CDL to tow with their 25,999# GVWR truck, they would say so (like Ryder and Penske do for their CDL sized trucks), otherwise someone who didn't have a CDL and got a ticket for driving out of class could sue them for not advising them.
Aaron Z
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
10-4 I'd just like to clarify at least in Texas the CDL part is not required to get a class A.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
This makes sense, up to 10k towing under 25,999 gvwr truck.From the UHaul FAQ for their 26' truck:
26ft Moving Truck Rental | U-Haul
The largest moving truck available at U-Haul, the 26ft moving truck is ideal for moving 5-8 room homes and designed for easy loading and comfortable driving.
On the lawyer side, if you needed a CDL to tow with their 25,999# GVWR truck, they would say so (like Ryder and Penske do for their CDL sized trucks), otherwise someone who didn't have a CDL and got a ticket for driving out of class could sue them for not advising them.
Aaron Z
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
Tell me more about combining gvw of trailer and truck vs using gcwr of the truck?
That may be the loop hole I need.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
The "Federal Register..." is a link to the full text:
GCWR in absence of manufacturer decal determined by scale or adding GVWR of single vehicle unit and towed unit (but then reference 49 C.F.R. Part 383 and it is only inclusive of towed GVWR of >10,000lbs).
Basically, manufacturers don't include GCWR on a label, so the old way of adding GVWRs together is officially sanctioned now (well, since 2014).
Marked up:
Reading between the lines, this came about from hotshotters messing around with re-rating and de-rating shenanigans to avoid CDLs. This rule change formalized the GVWR addition method and also allows them to mix and match scale weights and rated GVWRs (highest combined value) for a GCWR determination.
I hate acronyms.
Bebop
Well-known member
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He needs to absolutely stay where he's at.
Gbkeith
El Western Motel
This is something I’ve wondered about. I have trailers that list a gcwr on the tag. But to me that’s dependent on if you’re towing it with an F250 or a single axle Kenworth.