TRINDU
PBB Orphan
I see them pulled over every day by DOT as well.
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Looking for a new trailer. Weights and capacities have me confused.
I see them pulled over every day by DOT as well.
aczlan
Good Morning!
FTFY.Yeah, DOT officers do knowsome are just more strict than others
Most states have a similar, if not identical, flow chart.
All that matters is a GCWR of <26,001 OR trailer under 10,001 GVWR with a truck GVWR under 26,001. Derate trailer to match and forget about tongue weights and such
IMO, given the advancements in trucks since that law was passed, we should raise the threshold for a CDL to allow towing a 15-25k trailer with a F350/F450/F550/3500/4500/5500 size truck.
Perhaps add 5-15k to both numbers?
Make the CDL limit a 35k truck GVWR with a 15-25k trailer?
Or even keep the truck GVWR at 26k and raise the trailer GVWR threshold from 10k to 15-25k.
Aaron Z
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I don't think so
Just because a new pickup can, doesn't mean any Joe blow should be doing it.
35k lbs gross in a new pickup still takes some experience and skill to not wad up.
GLTHFJ60
Stupid is as stupid does
Under 10k for a trailer that size is pretty fuckin good. My 28' enclosed goose is heavier than that empty and dry.
aczlan
Good Morning!
You can do 36k right now legally without a CDL in all 50 states using a 25,999 GVWR vehicle with a 10k GVWR trailer.
Anyone can drive their Prius into their local UHaul, swipe their card and come out driving a 26' 25,999 GVWR box truck, then hook it to a 10k trailer and legally gross 36k.
Let's make it legal to do that with a heavier trailer and the same GCWR.
Aaron Z
arse_sidewards
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Because you live in Texas where every idiot cheers on the jackboots so they can get away with making that sort of shit part of their everyday routine.
The political will to enforce bullshit like that on weekend warriors is much thinner in most of the rest of the country. Makes for a slow day news story that the cops don't want.
arse_sidewards
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Leftist heads would explode. They already hate that gramps can drive an RV and pablo can drive a step van without going through the CDL bullshit.
arse_sidewards
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Fuck off with that dumbass bullshit.
You could say the same shit about 26k behind a 1980s truck in the 80s when they passed that garbage the first time around.
AKnate
Icehole
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It's 26k GCVWR. A 10k trailer would be max of a 15,999lb GVWR truck towing it.
aczlan
Good Morning!
And 26k behind a new F350 is probably easier and safer to drive than 10k behind a 1980s vintage F350.
Reread the chart that TRINDU posted above.
It's 26k GCWR IF the trailer GVWR is over 10k, or 36k GCWR if the trailer GVWR is 10k or less AND the truck GVWR is 26k or less.
So 12k GVWR truck with a 14k GVWR trailer is legal, but a 15k trailer behind the same truck isn't.
Aaron Z
AKnate
Icehole
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You're misreading that chart.
Over 26k weight rating is CDL aside from a few exemptions (farm tags, RV, etc)
If no trailer, or the trailer is under 10k, it's a class B. If trailer is over 10k, class A
An F350 towing an equipment trailer can require same license as an 80k lb Kenworth.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Fair enough, but there has got to be some rules so we don't end up like those guys in China with 400k lbs behind a 120hp hino crashing into a school bus and exploding
arse_sidewards
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If the 120hp Hino can take it up the hill it can take it back down the other side so long as the operator uses it right.Fair enough, but there has got to be some rules so we don't end up like those guys in China with 400k lbs behind a 120hp hino crashing into a school bus and exploding
aczlan
Good Morning!
Please show me where on the chart I am wrong. I followed the red line for a 26k GVWR truck towing a 10k (or 9999# if you prefer) GVWR trailer:
That appears to be a TX chart, happy to dig up similar ones for other states if you prefer.
Which is ridiculous.
Aaron Z
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
is the combination greater than 26,001. so your 25k truck and 10k trailer combo is greater than 26,001.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Yep, that's why the NEXT question is if the trailer GVWR is over 10k.
Keep following the red line all the way to the end.
You CAN legally be over 26k GCWR IF your vehicle GVWR is under 26k AND your trailer GVWR is under 10k.
That's the Federal standards, IIRC those weights are allowed in every state (except possibly California who had something weird?).
Aaron Z
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Same class, yes, but you could get a very restricted class a license by taking the test in the mentioned pickup if that's all you wanted to do.
Please show me where on the chart I am wrong. I followed the red line for a 26k GVWR truck towing a 10k (or 9999# if you prefer) GVWR trailer:
That appears to be a TX chart, happy to dig up similar ones for other states if you prefer.
Which is ridiculous.
Aaron Z
It's a fucking flow chart from the internet, it's not the law. You have a bunch of people in here who had to go through all the tests to get CDL's and you're bringing up a Pic off Google.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
That chart is from the Texas Department of Public Safety.
And NoDak is the same way, I've specifically guided my employers on how to follow the non-CDL ways.
Medical card needed for interstate commerce, but no CDL.
Note: I have my class A so I drive whatever the hell I want (Except buses)
And NoDak is the same way, I've specifically guided my employers on how to follow the non-CDL ways.
Medical card needed for interstate commerce, but no CDL.
Note: I have my class A so I drive whatever the hell I want (Except buses)
aczlan
Good Morning!
1. That flowchart (or one like it) is available from pretty much every state's DMV
2. Having a CDL doesn't mean much if the truck drivers we have coming into work are anything to go off of.
Here are the CDL license classes straight from the feds at: https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/drivers
Please show me from their rules which class my theoretical 25,990# GVWR uhaul truck with a 9,990# GVWR trailer fits into.
Aaron Z
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
Class A*: Any combination of vehicles which has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) whichever is greater.
Not applicable:
Towed unit 10000 pounds or less would be excluded from the GCWR calculation. The power unit has a 99% chance that it does not have a GCWR decal on it. So, GCWR is calculated by scale or by adding the GVWR of the truck and trailer together, but that is exclusive of the trailer if it's 10000 lbs or less. So GCWR is the GVWR of the power unit (less than 26000 lbs).
Class B*: Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
Not applicable, GVWR is less than 26000lbs.
Class C: Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Edit: Not applicable unless you are hauling 16 pax or hazmat.
So, you do not need a class A,B, or C for a 25990 GVWR towing a 9990 GVWR trailer. Regular license it is.
The feds word it horribly.
Not applicable:
Towed unit 10000 pounds or less would be excluded from the GCWR calculation. The power unit has a 99% chance that it does not have a GCWR decal on it. So, GCWR is calculated by scale or by adding the GVWR of the truck and trailer together, but that is exclusive of the trailer if it's 10000 lbs or less. So GCWR is the GVWR of the power unit (less than 26000 lbs).
Class B*: Any single vehicle which has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight that does not exceed 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
Not applicable, GVWR is less than 26000lbs.
Class C: Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Edit: Not applicable unless you are hauling 16 pax or hazmat.
So, you do not need a class A,B, or C for a 25990 GVWR towing a 9990 GVWR trailer. Regular license it is.
The feds word it horribly.
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Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.federalregister.gov
GCWR in absence of manufacturer decal determined by scale or adding GVWR of single vehicle unit and towed unit (but then reference 49 C.F.R. Part 383 and it is only inclusive of towed GVWR of >10,000lbs).
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
That was my bad, forgot regular was D and not C and misread the exception.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
How could this be any more clear?
The stuff that low Rollin posted is the first I've actually seen that backs up what you guys are saying. If it's written correctly, i doubt its going to be standard in many other states. Especially since what you posted backs me up.
Not to mention, a 26k lb truck pulling a 10k lb trailer is nothing like a 8k lb pick up pulling a 26k lb trailer.
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
Texas as long as not for hire is a class A NON CDL for the 10+k trailer and combined 26000 gvw.
If for hire, commercial etc. then CDL class A is required.
IMO the RV shit is kind of ridiculous, My dually and a 10+k gvw RV (bumper pull or 5er) is a class A.
I don't think because I have a dually that changes the situation much over having a single wheel 3/4 ton and a 10k trailer.
Basically punished because I have a more capable truck not because I chose to use the capacity.
If for hire, commercial etc. then CDL class A is required.
IMO the RV shit is kind of ridiculous, My dually and a 10+k gvw RV (bumper pull or 5er) is a class A.
I don't think because I have a dually that changes the situation much over having a single wheel 3/4 ton and a 10k trailer.
Basically punished because I have a more capable truck not because I chose to use the capacity.
aczlan
Good Morning!
Read the whole definition (especially the BOLDED part below), not just the part you like.
Quoting it again as you seem to be skipping the 2nd half that specifically relates to this situation:
The towed unit weight ONLY counts against the GCWR if the towed unit has a GVWR of 10,001# or more
Not so much.
It only backs you up if you skip the part where it says that it only applies to trailers over 10,001# GVWR
Here is what NY has to say, read the section with the limits for Class D that I outlined: https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/osss/repository/cdl101.pdf
Text version of the Class D limits:
Sitting in the airport, so here are a few other states:
AZ has this flowchart: https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2019/07/CDL-Med-Cert-flowchart.pdf
Washington State has this one: https://www.dol.wa.gov/media/42/download?inline
CA CHP has these (resident vs nonresident): https://www.chp.ca.gov/CommercialVehicleSectionSite/Documents/Driver License Flowcharts.pdf
Resident:
Nonresident, Red is non commercial path, Green is the commercial path:
Last, but not least, Idaho: https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/cdl_manual.pdf
Depends on the truck, the trailer and how it's loaded.
To get to a 26k trailer you are talking a DRW truck and a trailer with duals or super singles on a pair of 12k axles which last time I looked had pretty beefy brakes and will probably handily out stop our hypothetical Uhaul towing a 10k trailer.
Aaron Z
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Gbkeith
Three twenties and a ten
Trailer is still less than 10k.
Lowrollin70gmc
Flatland Wheeler
I quoted AcZlan, who quoted an FMCSA CDL guide.
The origin of that large quote is Title 49 of The Code of Federal Regulations, Part 383 Commercial Driver's License Standards; Requirements and Penalties.
Specifically 49 CFR 383.5 Definitions : Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV).
It's the fed's own rules. They could have worded it clearer, but that's the feds.
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YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
You guys can interpret it how ever you want.
26k gross combined vehicle wieght is clear to me.
Get stopped by dot at 36k lbs with a non cdl and let me know how it goes
26k gross combined vehicle wieght is clear to me.
Get stopped by dot at 36k lbs with a non cdl and let me know how it goes
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Only if you're doing it correctly. You could easily be near that with a triple axle trailer and a srw truck without even pushing the ratings that hard. Then you're relying on one wire to actually stop you.
That 26k lb uhaul won't be bullied around by a 10k lb trailer anywhere near what a 1 1 ton with 26k lbs behind it will.