Jeep CJ-7 full EV conversion

[blakes]

Honest question: Why would an EV swapped rig need a transmission at all? Why not just bolt straight to transfer case?

 

[4x4 EVC]

Right now, I'm having trouble cooling the air cooled motor.

I think I accidetly boxed in the motor such that it captures heat and there's nothing to breakup the heat buble around it. I'm going to test putting a 270cfm forced air fan on it and see if I can bring the temp down.

I cut slots in the bottom of the MCA, it helped but didn't bring it down enough. Here's the bottom of the MCA:

Here's a view from the bottom:

The motor is right above the slotted MCA.

I was thinking of porting a snorkel-like forced air thingy to push air on and disrupt the heat sink effect that I think I'm causing.

The normal operating temp is pretty high, 100 - 120C (220 - 240F), I don't have to keep it down buy much but more then where I'm at.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Honest question: Why would an EV swapped rig need a transmission at all? Why not just bolt straight to transfer case?

MOST in the EV conversion world would agree with you 100% of the time.

But, when I started this project, it seemed like I was being forced at every turn to keep making compromises based on how the tech world thought all EVs should be made.

In essence, a motor that has a huge 'power band', a 1 speed reduction motor that brings you down to about a 6:1 ratio at the wheel with NO diffs.

That's it, nothing else.

Seemed like that was the farthest thing a Jeep was made for and completely removed any real 4-wheel drive options.

So, fuck-um', I'm decided to figure out how to make the motor work for the Jeep rather then the Jeep be forced into and EV.

If I went directly to the TC, I haven't got enough speed to make crazy toque matter. PLUS, the diff's have their own set of gears so you can't just magically connect to the TC and have it produce enough output to make it do much more then roll under it's own power.

THE other way, the failed way, is to use a transverse Tesla motor and completely redesign the drive train. I couldn't see any of that working and I was proven right by the two separate teams that tried it.

 

[blakes]

ok

so my rig (pictured on first page) has an Atlas 4spd transfer case. IIRC the ratios are 1:1, 2.7:1, 4:1 and finally 10:1. The axles have 5.38:1 gears and 42" tires.

Seems to me there is a potential to eliminate the tranny. I dunno

 

[TRINDU]

Truly trying to focus on those first 3 to start - CJ, YJ an TJ. That was the recommendation of the large 4x4 parts houses that reached out to me. They said that is there largest market.

Right now, here's our status on the transmissions:

• For sure a AX15 version - for the YJ and TJs (I guess the same for the equally so-so AX5....)
• T4 & T5 are crap transmissions but they're out there so probably, yes.
• SR4 - for now 1980 - 1981 falls just before my start range of CJ-7 staring in 1982
• SM420 & SM465 are impressive gear boxes and will HAVE to be made, for sure.

Here's what the torque adapter cover looks like:

The transmission side is a bolt on to the T176 in this configuration. The Coupler that's inside this cover is made by Novak Adapters.

The custom components:

• Back Battery Box (3 modules, in gas tank area)
• Front Battery Box (3 modules, above front axel)
• Intermediate Battery Box (single module, right above motor)
• Tech Box (sits on top of Intermediate Battery Box, contains all the electronics)
• MCA - Motor Cradle Assembly (holds the motor and adapter and serves to hold all to the stock motor mounts)
• Support Platform - the Legs and Crossmembers of the platform that holds the front Battery Boxes and bolt on accessories.

I'm not offering an AC option, trying to keep the cost down but there are a handful of full electric AC compressors out there now, all servicing the after market vintage and custom fields. Very efficient also. I think I'll try to make a stub for the power connector for the AC compressor as an option.

- Patrick

So, you're strictly offering a power plant conversion. The customer has to sort out all other options if they wish to retain power brakes, power steering, heat, and a/c.

Will it all be one size fits all weld in? Bolt in?

What warranty and product support would you offer?

 

[Skinny]

The good thing is that there is a lot of crossover in the 4x4 world so as you get into newer manual transmissions there is already a lot of adapters and spuds to slide mismatched parts together.

That would open up a lot of market for you. I'm thinking as you get into an AX15 in a Jeep you get some compatibility to the W series in a Toyota.

Those transmissions are used in A LOT of vehicles outside of just Jeeps which helps with your market.

Same thing with like a T5. I'm. I'm not a big fan but there are thousands of those things made in the 80s-90s.

I'm in for the tech, it's interesting and different. I'm not 100% there. I'll never spend that kind of money on any vehicle. I have nothing against todays EVs. I just think they are overcomplicated junk and a far departure from what an EV should be like the EV1. But I'm not a hater if that is what floats your boat.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Can you remove the cover above the motor to let the heat rise and vent the hood? Any possibility of mounting a fan on the front side of the motor output so it blows air over itself whenever the vehicle is in motion?

Is this a bolt in deal to the stock frame mounts or do you have to modify the frame by drilling holes in it? Im sure someone with a mint restored CJ that wanted to convert to electric would also want to keep the original parts around so it can be swapped back to stock. An all original CJ with its stock ICE engine will always be a collectors item. One that's cut up and converted to electric.... Not so much.

 

[4x4 EVC]

ok

so my rig (pictured on first page) has an Atlas 4spd transfer case. IIRC the ratios are 1:1, 2.7:1, 4:1 and finally 10:1. The axles have 5.38:1 gears and 42" tires.

Seems to me there is a potential to eliminate the tranny. I dunno

God, I bet a ride with you in the truck, anywhere in that background mt. range would be heaven, at least to me!

Maybe, interesting. I guess the question would be functionality - do you think you would feel comfortable using your TC to shift on the fly when trying to do a 'move'?

I like using my transmission to shift or at least to have a gear to select. Meaning, I don't shift much once I pick what I'm about to do. So, let's say I'm going off-road with nothing more then dry deep ruts and washes, I might pick 4-wheel Hi and 2nd gear the entire way and never shift.

I don't know.

Question: do you think the 4speed Atlas can handle 3000 - 4000 rpm for long periods of time, could that cause any overheating or damage over time?

 

[4x4 EVC]

The good thing is that there is a lot of crossover in the 4x4 world so as you get into newer manual transmissions there is already a lot of adapters and spuds to slide mismatched parts together.

That would open up a lot of market for you. I'm thinking as you get into an AX15 in a Jeep you get some compatibility to the W series in a Toyota.

Those transmissions are used in A LOT of vehicles outside of just Jeeps which helps with your market.

Same thing with like a T5. I'm. I'm not a big fan but there are thousands of those things made in the 80s-90s.

I'm in for the tech, it's interesting and different. I'm not 100% there. I'll never spend that kind of money on any vehicle. I have nothing against todays EVs. I just think they are overcomplicated junk and a far departure from what an EV should be like the EV1. But I'm not a hater if that is what floats your boat.

You're not the first person to point out that my coupler and adapter would work in other swaps - that would fall into that Builders Parts category of the business plan - makes sense to me also.

Specifically the AX15, I've been asked about that before. Yep, I can see the T5 line being in the same vain.

The MCA has the following components to make mix-n-match easier:

• Sled - bottom part with the slots
• Motor Face - obvious
• Clutchless Tunnel - the 3/8" wall tube, cut to length to accommodate coupler length.
• Coupler - different splines to accommodate Motor to Transmission input shafts
• Transmission mounting face - this is obviously the face that is transmission specific for bolt patterns.

I use this insane old school welder who does so much secret military crap it's scary - the point about him is, he knows how to weld aluminum to extreme tolerances so, I end up with near ZERO vibration with an almost religious concentricity following.

'I'm in for the tech, it's interesting and different. I'm not 100% there. I'll never spend that kind of money on any vehicle. I have nothing against todays EVs. I just think they are overcomplicated junk and a far departure from what an EV should be like the EV1. But I'm not a hater if that is what floats your boat.'

- I think at some level, I'm in for the tech also - it's hard to properly convey how cool it feels to drive this thing. I sold my 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser when the offers got so high for such an old vehicle that I didn't need that much any more since I was done with coaching youth rugby and didn't need to haul around kids and equipment. I was paid more then I paid for it PLUS gas and repairs so, I had to sell it. With that, I bought a Chevy Bolt to see what the EV thing was about. I was blown away by how fun and easy a little car it was.

I mention this ONLY because you brought up the EV1 - many think EXACTLY like you that the EV needs to be as simple as possible - the Chevy Bolt is as close to and EV2 as I can think of.

BUT, by comparison, all EVs are far simplier then any ICE motor. The ONLY thing you don't understand is what you don't understand this moment.

I'll bet you, I could make you completely comfortable with the unknows of all things EV in an afternoon. I started with a set of stolen solar panels, a small inverter, a deep cell 12v battery and a lamp. Set the whole thing up in my back yard 8 years ago and tried to figure it all out because I had no clue what solar and inverters and all that crap was. Bought a small RC from a real RC race guy, asked about 1,000 questions. Just over and over, learning what it all does.

So, I'm in it for the tech also but over the moon it spins my Jeep.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Can you remove the cover above the motor to let the heat rise and vent the hood? Any possibility of mounting a fan on the front side of the motor output so it blows air over itself whenever the vehicle is in motion?

Is this a bolt in deal to the stock frame mounts or do you have to modify the frame by drilling holes in it? Im sure someone with a mint restored CJ that wanted to convert to electric would also want to keep the original parts around so it can be swapped back to stock. An all original CJ with its stock ICE engine will always be a collectors item. One that's cut up and converted to electric.... Not so much.

Before I reply property, let me show you a couple photos so you can see, kinda', how the airflow is now, I think you're on to the problem, but I don't want you to be in the complete dark about what it looks like:

NOTE: Many of these photos are old and have plywood in them - EVERYTHING is now Aluminum.

Here's a side view I took about 6 months ago, it's now all aluminum and the wiring is completely finished and clean, this is to give you an view of where everything lives.

An early shot of the main drive train.

Here's the front area, the Front Bat. Box would sit right above the Legs, you can see where the motor is placed under the Intermediate Bat. Box

This picture shows everything clean and running - I was hoping I could capture some of the grill airflow and use this 1-1/2" gap between the Tech Box and the Front Bat. Box to ram some air over the motor below all that. Don't think it's working out like that...

So, here's what you wrote:

'Can you remove the cover above the motor to let the heat rise and vent the hood? Any possibility of mounting a fan on the front side of the motor output so it blows air over itself whenever the vehicle is in motion?

Is this a bolt in deal to the stock frame mounts or do you have to modify the frame by drilling holes in it? Im sure someone with a mint restored CJ that wanted to convert to electric would also want to keep the original parts around so it can be swapped back to stock. An all original CJ with its stock ICE engine will always be a collectors item. One that's cut up and converted to electric.... Not so much.'

I was thinking of a side mount fan also. Maybe.

Yes, I used the same frame motor mount bolt holes, nothing's been drilled in the frame (or anything else). NO CUT, NO WELD, right there with you on that! 100% reversable.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

You need to find a way to get all the components above the motor out of there so the heat can escape and all the stuff behind the grill needs to go besides that cooler. Keep the natural airflow through the grill and use it to your advantage. You won't get enough air flow to cool the motor from the bottom alone (heat rises) and a side mount fan is meh at best.

This is why I see building and selling 1 or 2 a year as a better option. You would be able to hide most of the components behind the dash and/or in fenderwell boxes under hood and keep it more origionalish looking, you would be able to use airflow through the grill for ac condenser cooling, ps cooling and battery/motor cooling. And building a bracket that bolts to the of the motor facing the grill that has a dummy pulley and a mechanical fan on it ran from a V belt to a pulley on the motor itself with a duct to the grill like a normal fan shroud would be tits. Open the hood and see the electric motor and some cables, perhaps batteries and some electronics boxes on the fenders and firewall and an old school looking mechanical fan and shroud going to the grill looking like a radiator setup.

Doing stuff like that would also let you mess with weight bias and center of gravity so that it handles better than a stock Jeep

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Honestly for 50k I'd want to open the hood and see a cool ass 1 piece billet bracket on the front of the motor (fan setup from above built in) with this bling bling mount connecting to the stock motor mounts on the frame. Go one step further and put another bling bling bracket between the motor and can to the transmission like a mid plate on a race car and you would be able to put enough torque to the transmission to do the first ever in vehicle T-case flip and the motor wouldn't even flinch.

 

[4x4 EVC]

You need to find a way to get all the components above the motor out of there so the heat can escape and all the stuff behind the grill needs to go besides that cooler. Keep the natural airflow through the grill and use it to your advantage. You won't get enough air flow to cool the motor from the bottom alone (heat rises) and a side mount fan is meh at best.

This is why I see building and selling 1 or 2 a year as a better option. You would be able to hide most of the components behind the dash and/or in fenderwell boxes under hood and keep it more origionalish looking, you would be able to use airflow through the grill for ac condenser cooling, ps cooling and battery/motor cooling. And building a bracket that bolts to the of the motor facing the grill that has a dummy pulley and a mechanical fan on it ran from a V belt to a pulley on the motor itself with a duct to the grill like a normal fan shroud would be tits. Open the hood and see the electric motor and some cables, perhaps batteries and some electronics boxes on the fenders and firewall and an old school looking mechanical fan and shroud going to the grill looking like a radiator setup.

Doing stuff like that would also let you mess with weight bias and center of gravity so that it handles better than a stock Jeep

Yeah, the other site is saying the exact same thing - one idea would use the grill air and make 4" flexible hose that would free blow on the motor then switch on a motor inline of the tube to add extra heat pushing force.

I also like the side mount idea. I'll need to show you a picture of the two outriggers that support the OBC and the PC, maybe I could add a fan through Leg that comes from below the PS outrigger i the back fender area.

Not a difficult change.

I don't know Slowpoke, I think the 'fake' V8 look might not work, there's not much room in the engine bay, those battery modules take up a lot of room. I need better grill to back airflow but not in love with the pully and suck.

You know who does that, ElectricGT, the company Tremec bought:

This is there e-motor block.

And this is there Transmission and Drivetrain

I'm not sure how much of this is real, if you look at that part of their website, it looks cheesy.

BUT, following along with previous posts, tapping into the nostalgia thing might be a thing.

 

[rockmup]

Looking at your pics, could you not extend the lid of the tech box out an 1.5-2.0" and direct the airflow into that gap more ? As it is now, theres nothing forcing it in there. Just use some double sided tape and some .125 luan to try it
Get you a smoke test kit and see where its really flowing, might surprise you

 

[Skinny]

I think the EV1 with better battery tech would be a great vehicle. Oh wait that is the Chevy Bolt

Unfortunately not a lot of EVs are simple like a Bolt because the manufacturers are trying to boost the sticker up to make margins on what they are already losing money on. The only reason EVs are made now for the most part is because the government is picking up 50% of the tab on the backside. Ooh bet a lot of people didn't know that. Yeah your tax dollars are paying for half. Well of course unless you buy a Tesla then it does t because Musk doesn't get any recognition from Uncle Sam even though he has pioneered the market. But that's a story for another day.

I actually drove a prototype electric Ranger back in like 2000/2001. A factory rep brought one to our voc school. Handed the keys and said let it rip. It did ok, was not lithium so very heavy and lacked range. But it was all there. I think if they kept working on the battery chemistry we would have been way further ahead now then we are.

But going back to my original statement, they went away then came back with lithium. But now since cars are so bloated its like counterproductive. Let's take the heaviest piles in the road and make them electric. WTF guys. Have you seen the Hummer? Like jeez this is where we are at?

If China is allowed to sell EVs in the country tariff free people would pick up a $15k BYD as a toy because most other options are a fucking Lightening or Mach E.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Looking at your pics, could you not extend the lid of the tech box out an 1.5-2.0" and direct the airflow into that gap more ? As it is now, theres nothing forcing it in there. Just use some double sided tape and some .125 luan to try it
Get you a smoke test kit and see where its really flowing, might surprise you

That's a great idea, it might not lower it completely but that would certainly create forced air downward right there. I grabbed some of my favorite prototyping material, cardboard, and stuck it on for illustration:

Added benefit: helps cool the Front Battery Box and the Tech Box (other then the Inverter that has it's own cooling, the LV-JB and Orion BMS are in the Tech Box, they don't generate a lot of heat but moving it down and out of the engine bay would be a benefit.).

I would make the scoop arched to match the arch of the hood to collect more air to push downward. Like you said, an easy way to do this would be to extend the Cover of the Tech Box 1-2" toward the front. Lots of ideas...

The smoke test is important, agree. I was waiting till I had a new fan pointing at the motor to combine tests.

Cool idea!

 

[4x4 EVC]

I think the EV1 with better battery tech would be a great vehicle. Oh wait that is the Chevy Bolt

Unfortunately not a lot of EVs are simple like a Bolt because the manufacturers are trying to boost the sticker up to make margins on what they are already losing money on. The only reason EVs are made now for the most part is because the government is picking up 50% of the tab on the backside. Ooh bet a lot of people didn't know that. Yeah your tax dollars are paying for half. Well of course unless you buy a Tesla then it does t because Musk doesn't get any recognition from Uncle Sam even though he has pioneered the market. But that's a story for another day.

I actually drove a prototype electric Ranger back in like 2000/2001. A factory rep brought one to our voc school. Handed the keys and said let it rip. It did ok, was not lithium so very heavy and lacked range. But it was all there. I think if they kept working on the battery chemistry we would have been way further ahead now then we are.

But going back to my original statement, they went away then came back with lithium. But now since cars are so bloated its like counterproductive. Let's take the heaviest piles in the road and make them electric. WTF guys. Have you seen the Hummer? Like jeez this is where we are at?

If China is allowed to sell EVs in the country tariff free people would pick up a $15k BYD as a toy because most other options are a fucking Lightening or Mach E.

Skinny - this is the funniest thing - I completely agree with half of this and completely disagree with the other half.

BYD and the other Chinese government subsidized EV factories could kill the US auto industry in an instant - agree. The Chinese government wants to corner the market on all things EV (cars, trucks, batteries, parts, etc.). Biden was right to put a 100% terrif on that company. (PLEASE don't let this be an opportunity to open this up to any sorta' political discussion, I was just commenting on how right Skinny is about BYD.)

Also agree, about the American car bloat you speak of - the EV Hummer is the best example I've seen. Side note about the EV Hummer, it's getting pretty damn good reviews across the board. Don's ask me why it even exists but, I guess when you're that ugly, any news if good news...

One reason for the bloat for EVs is because there's not much else you can do once you go electric in a normal passenger vehicle - it's pretty darn automatic. You have to entice the buying customer with something, I guess...

 

[4x4 EVC]

God, I bet a ride with you in the truck, anywhere in that background mt. range would be heaven, at least to me!

Maybe, interesting. I guess the question would be functionality - do you think you would feel comfortable using your TC to shift on the fly when trying to do a 'move'?

I like using my transmission to shift or at least to have a gear to select. Meaning, I don't shift much once I pick what I'm about to do. So, let's say I'm going off-road with nothing more then dry deep ruts and washes, I might pick 4-wheel Hi and 2nd gear the entire way and never shift.

I don't know.

Question: do you think the 4speed Atlas can handle 3000 - 4000 rpm for long periods of time, could that cause any overheating or damage over time?

Follow up on this line of thought, here's my gearing and final output info. In general, you can drive all day without shifting out of 3rd. It drives about as peppy as a stock Jeep off the line. BUT, still in 3rd, there seems to be no top end, it easily goes faster then the speedometer has numbers - 85mph++.

I personaly like shifting so when I come to a light, or on a hill in traffic, I'll shift to 2nd and stay there to get quicker off the line and better regen in stop and go traffic.

If I'm tooling around, or on the highway, 3rd gear and forget it.

The torque at the wheel in Lo-Lo is nutty. More dirt trail work is necessary and missing from my life at the moment...

 

[Skinny]

I wonder if the import EV issue parallels the same thing that happened in the 80s during the oil crisis. Domestic manufacturers needed to scale down, spent no time on R and D of compact cars, and were caught with their pants down. Here comes Honda, Nissan/Datsun, and Toyota who had a lot of practice and basically overturned the market. Found ways around import tariffs, and quickly dominated.

I personally think they challenged everyone and Domestics (even German) manufacturers had to go back to the drawing board and do a better job.

So is Uncle Sam going to continue with massive tariffs to protect a dwindling domestic auto manufacturing base? Who knows...I wouldn't say the Chinese build a great EV but I bet there would be a market.

I recently traveled to the Caribbean and there sure as shit is a lot of TYC pickups and other cars scattered everywhere. All Chinese made.

Regardless, the world is an interesting place. All I know is no matter how good the reviews are of the Hummer or any other bloated EV the proof is downtime is terrible, cost of ownership is higher, and the vehicles have already proven to plummet in value. Not to mention are near totalled if a battery needs to be replaced out of warranty. These are major hurdles vehicle manufacturers need to face and do it without huge government subsides to make it work. Otherwise it never will.

Sorry for the side rant/conversation. If it means anything I did an EV conversion on a gas generator if that makes you happy. I'm a generator tech but like to dabble in the clean energy when I'm not sniffing diesel fumes.

 

[TRINDU]

Follow up on this line of thought, here's my gearing and final output info. In general, you can drive all day without shifting out of 3rd. It drives about as peppy as a stock Jeep off the line. BUT, still in 3rd, there seems to be no top end, it easily goes faster then the speedometer has numbers - 85mph++.


I personaly like shifting so when I come to a light, or on a hill in traffic, I'll shift to 2nd and stay there to get quicker off the line and better regen in stop and go traffic.

If I'm tooling around, or on the highway, 3rd gear and forget it.

The torque at the wheel in Lo-Lo is nutty. More dirt trail work is necessary and missing from my life at the moment...

4.88s and a LT230 transfer case. Throw the trans away.

You can play with diff and tcase gears to match size size.

I imagine AWD would have benefits in a eletric vehicle.

 

[rockmup]

4.88s and a LT230 transfer case. Throw the trans away.

You can play with diff and tcase gears to match size size.

I imagine AWD would have benefits in a eletric vehicle.

If I was going to do this, AWD is what I'd want

 

[4x4 EVC]

I wonder if the import EV issue parallels the same thing that happened in the 80s during the oil crisis. Domestic manufacturers needed to scale down, spent no time on R and D of compact cars, and were caught with their pants down. Here comes Honda, Nissan/Datsun, and Toyota who had a lot of practice and basically overturned the market. Found ways around import tariffs, and quickly dominated.

I personally think they challenged everyone and Domestics (even German) manufacturers had to go back to the drawing board and do a better job.

So is Uncle Sam going to continue with massive tariffs to protect a dwindling domestic auto manufacturing base? Who knows...I wouldn't say the Chinese build a great EV but I bet there would be a market.

I recently traveled to the Caribbean and there sure as shit is a lot of TYC pickups and other cars scattered everywhere. All Chinese made.

Regardless, the world is an interesting place. All I know is no matter how good the reviews are of the Hummer or any other bloated EV the proof is downtime is terrible, cost of ownership is higher, and the vehicles have already proven to plummet in value. Not to mention are near totalled if a battery needs to be replaced out of warranty. These are major hurdles vehicle manufacturers need to face and do it without huge government subsides to make it work. Otherwise it never will.

Sorry for the side rant/conversation. If it means anything I did an EV conversion on a gas generator if that makes you happy. I'm a generator tech but like to dabble in the clean energy when I'm not sniffing diesel fumes.

There's so much in that post, what's not to like and laugh my ass off at!!!

I think my favorite part was telling me (us) that you converted a little genny to EV - it's as if you said 'i'm not racist, I have a black friend' - I took it for exactly what you intended but can't stop laughing my ass off!!!

Gotta' start somewhere, right?!?

I vote MORE RANTS from YOU!

 

[4x4 EVC]

4.88s and a LT230 transfer case. Throw the trans away.

You can play with diff and tcase gears to match size size.

I imagine AWD would have benefits in a eletric vehicle.

Ohhhh, what would that take!!!

I guess hubs that won't explode for full time use.

What a bad ass idea. Thinking, thinking, thinking....

 

[Treefrog]

Ohhhh, what would that take!!!

I guess hubs that won't explode for full time use.

What a bad ass idea. Thinking, thinking, thinking....

Since you are in the Jeep ecosystem, the np242 might be a better choice. There is some documentation on XJ forums on that swap.

 

[TRINDU]

Ohhhh, what would that take!!!

$100 for a disco 1 tcase. They litter the landscape due to slipped liners. Just offer an offset rear with disc's for that $50k tag.

I guess hubs that won't explode for full time use.

What a bad ass idea. Thinking, thinking, thinking....

Why would the hubs explode?

Since you are in the Jeep ecosystem, the np242 might be a better choice. There is some documentation on XJ forums on that swap.

If 5.xx gears work, then yeah,.especially on a yj/tj. If not the different high range of a lt230 brings some variables to get the right overall drive ratio.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Since you are in the Jeep ecosystem, the np242 might be a better choice. There is some documentation on XJ forums on that swap.

Just looked up the NP242 - never heard of it before. Interesting.

 

[4x4 EVC]

$100 for a disco 1 tcase. They litter the landscape due to slipped liners. Just offer an offset rear with disc's for that $50k tag.



Why would the hubs explode?



If 5.xx gears work, then yeah,.especially on a yj/tj. If not the different high range of a lt230 brings some variables to get the right overall drive ratio.

I've had Warn locking hubs lock up when I left them locked for a year or so. Horrible noise then dead. That was YEARS ago, I was asking if there's any problem with leaving them locked - just as a first step in thinking about an AWD set up.

 

[KacksterK5]

No, I figured out how to have a clutchless shifting system. If you want a full explanation, let me know but, in essence, I control the motors rotational speed both in traction and without 'request' (no power) so, I can simulate what the clutch does by slowing the rotational speed of the motor to somewhat match that of an ICE motor returning to idle speed. It's a bit complicated and involves good intentions and high hopes....

ALSO, I figured out how to have SPM (Single Peddle Mode) driving while retaining the ability to shift - that's some damn magic for you on a Friday!

So, agree, if I let the motor do all the work at high RPM, it would most likely blow up the stock transmissions that aren't designed to exceed 5000 - 6000 rpm. Therefore, 2nd and 3rd only.

As it relates to your comments about the torque load on the input shaft and all the down stream connected parts - I worry about what that much torque can do as well. BUT, given how we have ALL abused every single nut and bolt on our Jeeps over the decades, I'm sure once one X-part explodes and breaks due to the motor having more power then the axel shaft, Tom Woods (4xshaft.com/) or someone will capitalize on that and make an EV Drive Shaft series. That's how it's always been right - make a thing that exceeds the spec, blow it up, make the next thing stronger, rinse, repeat.

PLEASE, let your engineering brain unload on me - I feel like I've been dancing alone in a dark room for about a year, ANY and ALL engineering thoughts are VERY welcome!!

Thanks for taking the time to chime in!!

While I get the " tom woods can make stronger parts" theory, the reality is that these transmissions weren't made to take all that constant torque through those gears. The market share isn't enough for somebody to produce hard internal parts for old shit. Can I get a 300M input for a T-176, sure, will it cost me dearly, damn right. The ability to stab a clutch or bail off the gas and unlock a converter to decrease shock load is just a part of wheeling, the direct nature of the fully applied torque in either direction has to be tough on parts.

I'm not shooting holes in your deal, I think it's really cool, I'm just trying to play it all out and see what solutions you came up with to retrofit old junk to new junk.

So you let off the gas and dry shift the trans while rolling? it's basic rev matching but this thing doesn't rev, does it just burn on the synchros until the trans slows down to idle speed then you go back on the motor to get back up to speed? Sounds herky jerky. A lot of racing shifters use a strain gauge on the shifter for the motor cut and clutch less shifting, but you gotta yank the thing and they trans can handle it. Usually a T56 or modern trans with basket synchros. These old things don't like to play that game. Any videos of this thing wheeling and driving on the street?


What's the charge rate on 110 power like a Honda 2000w generator in Miles of distance gained per hour of charge?

Can it be charged while operating? I.e. Honda Gen on a trailer hitch rack while traveling to camp between wheeling trails.

 

[4x4 EVC]

While I get the " tom woods can make stronger parts" theory, the reality is that these transmissions weren't made to take all that constant torque through those gears. The market share isn't enough for somebody to produce hard internal parts for old shit. Can I get a 300M input for a T-176, sure, will it cost me dearly, damn right. The ability to stab a clutch or bail off the gas and unlock a converter to decrease shock load is just a part of wheeling, the direct nature of the fully applied torque in either direction has to be tough on parts.

I'm not shooting holes in your deal, I think it's really cool, I'm just trying to play it all out and see what solutions you came up with to retrofit old junk to new junk.

So you let off the gas and dry shift the trans while rolling? it's basic rev matching but this thing doesn't rev, does it just burn on the synchros until the trans slows down to idle speed then you go back on the motor to get back up to speed? Sounds herky jerky. A lot of racing shifters use a strain gauge on the shifter for the motor cut and clutch less shifting, but you gotta yank the thing and they trans can handle it. Usually a T56 or modern trans with basket synchros. These old things don't like to play that game. Any videos of this thing wheeling and driving on the street?


What's the charge rate on 110 power like a Honda 2000w generator in Miles of distance gained per hour of charge?

Can it be charged while operating? I.e. Honda Gen on a trailer hitch rack while traveling to camp between wheeling trails.

I was worried about that as well.

Here's what I did: Instead of trying to compensate the existing old ass parts to a new torquey motor, I decided to adjust the motor.

So, I limit the RPM to around 6000, the stock max. When driving, if I start in 2nd, I 'max' out around 3400 - 4100 rpm then shift if I want to. When in 3rd, my top out gear, I'm traveling around 2800 to about 3800 most of the time.

Shifting, there is a video but I could make a better one, with this type of motor, same as all modern EV type motors, when you take your foot off the throttle, the motor doesn't come to a stop or free spin. Instead, if it's in SPM (Single Peddle Mode), regen will kick in every time, it's about as close as you get to ICE off gas, return to idle. BUT, if I want to shift in that event, I have to 'release' the regen grip on the motor so I have a stick shift button (pictures in this thread or I can repost if you want). That button, sometimes called a Clutch Switch (on Hyper9HV systems it's the K1-7 wire), tells the motor not to hold for regen AND to allow the motor to Idle Spin at X rate. I've got X rate set to resemble the natural foot of ICE gas to Idle rate.

So, this brings the spinning motor rpm down and the blocking rings do their natural jobs and slow the last bit to allow seamless and clutchless shifting.

No herk, no jerk, in either direction, shifting up or down, feels like a regular shift.

To your point, it was a concern to me as well, can't have the motor destroying everything down stream, what fun would that be...

Generator - I would have to grab the Honda 2kw manual to see what the nominal and operating current flow was. We currently install the Elcon 6.6kW charger. The vehicles are set up to bring in up to 30a of current via AC. They can take a lot more and do under regen but that's not what you're asking. Once I know the Honda operating rate, you can calculate the charge rate. It'll be a lot less then a 220 AC J1772 plug but 2kW is a decent flow rate.

Charging while driving: ok, so, regen is, technicaly, charging while driving. BUT, it's either / or, not both. So, right now, in SPM (with regen on), when I let off the gas, the motor can detect that it's not dwawing down current and will act like an alternator. But, when I press on the throttle, it sees that I'm requesting Torque and instantly changes to powering the motor to spin vs collecting power from a forced spinning motor.

So, no, I don't believe you can charge externally and drive at the same time.

Semi related, there's a lot of discussion right now about add on battery packs. The idea being, let's say you have a E-Jerry Can that is nothing more then a large battery. By comparison, one Tesla Model S pack has 24v and 5.3kW and weighs about 60 lbs. That breaks down to about 12 miles of range (I'm getting about 2.4mi/kWh so, 5.3 x 2.4 = 12.72 miles est.).

If such a thing existed, you would pull over, and somehow plug in this E-Jerry Can BAT. and off you go.

It's a thought. I like it at half the size - 30 lbs, 2.5 miles range. There's a bit of tricky in the electronics but nothing extraordinary or that difficult.

BUT, if you pulled over waiting for a line of Jeeps in front of you or for lunch or at night, that Honda generator would be great if needed.

 

[4x4 EVC]

Quick clarification about down shifting: If I'm traveling to a stop light I'll have to stop at, I might down shift for two reasons: I might want to take off faster then what I can get from a dead start in 3rd or to get ready when the light changes.

BUT, regardless, when you downshift, and release the Clutch Sw. (Stick Shift Switch), it does NOT slow the motor down in the same way it would in a compression braking situation in an ICE set up.

Yes, if regen is enabled, it will clamp the motor to start to 'brake' the vehicle but not via the low idle but instead it's using the momentum of the vehicles mass to charge the battery AND at a set % rate (of regen).

So, it feels like compression braking but only on the surface.

Hope that helps with understanding how regen is incorporated into SPM (Single Peddle Mode) driving.