4x4 EVC
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80,000 to 100,000 people shenanigans - that's insane!
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Jeep CJ-7 full EV conversion
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Penetrode Offroad
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Cool project. Different. 
4x4 EVC
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Thanks Man - god, I miss drinking...Cool project. Different.
And here i was thinking to myself "they must have put back quite a few racks dreaming up this deal".
Skinny
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Yeah going after Defenders that a different ball game. That is probably a marker that have money to spend, already own a high end EV, want something different, prepared to spend six figures for the Defender, etc.
Basically complete opposite of a Jeep. I don't understand any of it because I never thought a Bronco, FJ40, D90 were anything special. They were just solid off-road platforms. The cult followings is what jacked the pricing.
Best of luck to you. Your work looks top notch.
I'm wondering as a stop gap between needing a large amount of batteries (weight, space, cost) if some type of hybrid deal would work. Like 100% electric drive, maybe a quarter or third the battery capacity, and a little 6-10kw gen.
I have a D1005 Kubota powered light tower and that power train is tiny and sips fuel. Let the ICE engine fill in the gaps instead of carrying more battery capacity. Or the ICE runs all the time and that provides for a source of hot water, power steering, AC compressor drive, etc. That gets you down the road then the battery gives you the extra assist when needed or to capture regen on braking.
I don't know, I think its all cool and one day I'd like to build an EV or something like that. Just a little runabout. Good excuse to buy an LTV mail truck
Basically complete opposite of a Jeep. I don't understand any of it because I never thought a Bronco, FJ40, D90 were anything special. They were just solid off-road platforms. The cult followings is what jacked the pricing.
Best of luck to you. Your work looks top notch.
I'm wondering as a stop gap between needing a large amount of batteries (weight, space, cost) if some type of hybrid deal would work. Like 100% electric drive, maybe a quarter or third the battery capacity, and a little 6-10kw gen.
I have a D1005 Kubota powered light tower and that power train is tiny and sips fuel. Let the ICE engine fill in the gaps instead of carrying more battery capacity. Or the ICE runs all the time and that provides for a source of hot water, power steering, AC compressor drive, etc. That gets you down the road then the battery gives you the extra assist when needed or to capture regen on braking.
I don't know, I think its all cool and one day I'd like to build an EV or something like that. Just a little runabout. Good excuse to buy an LTV mail truck
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4x4 EVC
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Agree, those high end vehicles that get the full restore and EV treatment are NOT very Jeep like, 100%.Yeah going after Defenders that a different ball game. That is probably a marker that have money to spend, already own a high end EV, want something different, prepared to spend six figures for the Defender, etc.
Basically complete opposite of a Jeep. I don't understand any of it because I never thought a Bronco, FJ40, D90 were anything special. They were just solid off-road platforms. The cult followings is what jacked the pricing.
Best of luck to you. Your work looks top notch.
I'm wondering as a stop gap between needing a large amount of batteries (weight, space, cost) if some type of hybrid deal would work. Like 100% electric drive, maybe a quarter or third the battery capacity, and a little 6-10kw gen.
I have a D1005 Kubota powered light tower and that power train is tiny and sips fuel. Let the ICE engine fill in the gaps instead of carrying more battery capacity. Or the ICE runs all the time and that provides for a source of hot water, power steering, AC compressor drive, etc. That gets you down the road then the battery gives you the extra assist when needed or to capture regen on braking.
I don't know, I think its all cool and one day I'd like to build an EV or something like that. Just a little runabout. Good excuse to buy an LTV mail truck
But, I can't go below a price when I know the absolute cost, at least as of now. I think, hope, the early adopters with slightly deeper pockets will buy the first 20 or so, let me really refine the Kit and in about a year, offer it to end customers without batteries or anything and let you guys do the build yourselves.
I promise you, putting it together, it's the most fun you've ever had working on a Jeep. I've had to take mine apart 100 times, each time I love it more. From not having a single bit of grease under my fingernails to the time it takes to have the motor out and able to do a fix or a change or whatever - 1 hr to have it completely broken down - AND by myself, no need for anybody to help (yes, you need a cherry picker, batteries aren't light!).
As for your intirum idea of using a micro generator to be on or the reverse or any combination thereof - dead in the water. The level of simplicity in an EV is impossible to explain till you see for yourself. If you added any of that, you'd be in a world of complicated engineering and bullshit.
Jeep corporate is dealing with that right now on their 4xe Wranglers - right now there's a recall and a warning about not parking in your garage when you're charging (small recall but not that small).
And they pay sharp guys to come work for them, you know, with degrees and shit. They can't get it right. Nope, it's EV only or keep your ICE I would say.
Nothing wrong with keeping your ICE box (stupid pun, sorry), but at some point, it just makes sense to convert it to something else so you can continue to enjoy it.
I just think that 'something else' is EV.
- Patrick
4x4 EVC
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Oh man, don't be mean, I went round and round on this idea 3 years ago. No amount of beer would have made that thought process any better. Nope, I think I got it right and I'm here at the starting line, alone.And here i was thinking to myself "they must have put back quite a few racks dreaming up this deal".
So, either I'm 100% correct or I'm 100% wrong.
AND yes, I fully realize I've opened myself up with that last line - it's ok, bring it, deep breath, just gotta' hit Post reply...and then...
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Cool. It sounds like the Volvo unit is electric to hydraulic? Any consideration of an all electric gear box like the newer gladiators use?No worries at all, I love these kinds of questions!
My kit bolts directly to the stock transmission. On the CJ-7, that would be a T176. I use a custom direct coupler inside a bullet proof Torque Adapter Cover:
(slightly older picture with prototype plywood Girdle still on, that's now steel.)
Power Steering - Hell's yes it does. I used the Volvo unit that has the pump built into it. So, I don't need to run any other hoses other then the Hi and Lo between the pump and the Saginaw (stock) knuckle. It has outperformed all expectations so far. NOTE: no super use off-road yet.
If you look at the very first picture in this thread, you can see it just to the right of the Master Cylinder. I had a custom high pressure hose made by a race company here in SoCal.
The constant waiting when crawling is the main reason I am curious about endurance over range. Are you typically running the motor at slow speed and high torque offroad?
Any idea of how does fording depth compare to stock ICE? Trails in large parts of the country have deeper water crossing.
I have nothing against the Hyper9 family. There is a reason that it has been the go to for conversions for years. But motor design has advanced a bit over the last decade. Lighter, smaller, more efficient. But yeah, price is an issue. It would be nice to have some competitors to the Hyper9.
Other than the motor and controller, I did not think the price of the rest of the system goes up too much with voltage.
It is a cool build. Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
4x4 EVC
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If I miss any, just ring my bell...
Yep, Volvo internal electric steering pump, love it. Cheap also. I'd do a conversion on and ICE engine with this thing, it's that good.
I'm not aware of that electric gear box, so, an automatic manual trans? What?
Range: ~110 mi range average surface / highway would give you about 3 trail days, round trip - assuming the full milage covered was about 10 miles per day, that's what I'm thinking.
The constant waiting when crawling is the main reason I am curious about endurance over range. Are you typically running the motor at slow speed and high torque offroad?
So, it's a bit of both and I'm early days with it off-road - one variable you have to keep in mind is 100% torque at 1 rpm so, if you're in 4-Wheel Hi, you can just walk over most anything on a normal trail. And you don't really think about if the motor is running fast or not, it doesn't have anything to do with driving since there is no power band (there is of course, but it's so far above a drivable speed, it's not part of this question), you have to divorce yourself from the mental work of matching motor speed with transmission gear. If you want to go forward, in general, I live in 3rd. You just press the throttle and go, that's it.
Any idea of how does fording depth compare to stock ICE? Trails in large parts of the country have deeper water crossing.
The Back Battery Box was built to be IP66 - waterproof. I still can't bring myself to drive it into my swimming pool but I'll be someone will. Given the fact that there's a decent amount of air in that box, I'm guessing it would add to the buoyancy with water above the axel.
The Front Battery Box sits above the tires and is probably rated at IP5something, water resistant. The motor is likewise IP66.
I have nothing against the Hyper9 family. There is a reason that it has been the go to for conversions for years. But motor design has advanced a bit over the last decade. Lighter, smaller, more efficient. But yeah, price is an issue. It would be nice to have some competitors to the Hyper9.
Other than the motor and controller, I did not think the price of the rest of the system goes up too much with voltage.
Battery boxes all change, the number of them also, two of mine are nearly identical, that wouldn't be the case with more battery modules. The wire and connectors to each battery box, added fuses or HV switches, more HVIL wiring (safety feature), more plumbing (!!!!), plumbing sucks!, yeah, it goes up a decent amount.
More competition would be great and more then likely, I'll have to move up to 400v at some point. Not now though, the Hyper9HV is a great motor for this. Feel free to swap it out with whatever's next.....
Thanks for such great questions (again),
Patrick
pinchegringo
Well-known member
A few points to consider,
4low is not there to deliver more torque,it's there to control wheel speed.
A auto trans with a converter is a huge loss and not really necessary seeing how you're not trying to stay in a power ban.
You made a comment about how the truck is lighter now and that is just not physically possible. Weight is the killer in a real offroad vehicle and most people building real offroad stuff count ounces.
I think people tend to dream big and find the most extreme path instead of looking around at what works with today's technology.
A simple glance at the billion pruis cars on the road will tell you hybrid is the best path.
Loose some battery weight and squeeze a little honda Genset in there would be killer.
Just my two cents.
4low is not there to deliver more torque,it's there to control wheel speed.
A auto trans with a converter is a huge loss and not really necessary seeing how you're not trying to stay in a power ban.
You made a comment about how the truck is lighter now and that is just not physically possible. Weight is the killer in a real offroad vehicle and most people building real offroad stuff count ounces.
I think people tend to dream big and find the most extreme path instead of looking around at what works with today's technology.
A simple glance at the billion pruis cars on the road will tell you hybrid is the best path.
Loose some battery weight and squeeze a little honda Genset in there would be killer.
Just my two cents.
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Ignore my question. I was wrong on how the Gladiator's power steering worked. I had thought it was electric->mechanical. It's not. It is electric -> hydraulic -> mechanical.
Good to know about how well it works.
With an electric motor it is not really about the power band as much as it is the efficiency map. Low speed high torque is very low efficiency. High speed, moderate torque tends to be the happy zone. If I remember, I'll track down the hyper9 efficiency data later.
400 is not as scary as it sounds. But you may have to step away from the Tesla packs if you go that route, switching for a module with higher voltage but less amp hours.
Thanks for answering.
KacksterK5
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Does this thing drive through a clutch? I get that you just put it in gear and go but I can't imagine T-5 ir T-176 internals like to spin as high as the motor is capable of.
It also seems like the torque load on the input shaft in third would break stuff upstream of the driven gear when crawling. Just my engineer brain doing mental math and knowing how small that input is.
It's pretty cool, It has me debating gathering parts to stockpile for my CJ7
It also seems like the torque load on the input shaft in third would break stuff upstream of the driven gear when crawling. Just my engineer brain doing mental math and knowing how small that input is.
It's pretty cool, It has me debating gathering parts to stockpile for my CJ7
Ya, I could picture an unsavvy buyer stuffing the trans into first gear and running it up to 55-60mph and blowing it up because the electric motor will allow that to happen without flinching.
You would almost need a sensor on the transmission telling the electronics what gear the transmission is in and have it limit RPM/speed based on gear selection to keep that from happening.
4x4 EVC
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4low is not there to deliver more torque,it's there to control wheel speed.
- Interesting point, I see what you're saying. Did I miss-speak about that, if so, my mistake.
A auto trans with a converter is a huge loss and not really necessary seeing how you're not trying to stay in a power ban.
- Yep, they are not part of each other's worlds, your explanation is correct.
You made a comment about how the truck is lighter now and that is just not physically possible. Weight is the killer in a real offroad vehicle and most people building real offroad stuff count ounces.
- Of course it's physically possible. The cast iron 258CID motor alone is around 700lbs. Batteries are the weight killer, for sure, and I only have 7 modules, each weighs about 60lbs. My motor weights 120lbs, each of my larger Battery Boxes comes in around 24lbs, the small one around 15lbs. The Tech Box, filled with techy stuff only weighs about 31lbs. If I'm not under I'm damn close.
- I'm aiming for middle of the road Jeep spec to spec replacement with all the advantages of EV and none of the disadvantages of ICE. I'm NOT aiming for a rock crawler - I'll fully leave that to the experts, like every single Jeeper on this site, not me.
I think people tend to dream big and find the most extreme path instead of looking around at what works with today's technology.
- Can you make that into a catchy tee-shirt PLEASE! I'm working on nothing more then and an 'Engine Swap'. It only seems complicated because you don't know it as well as you've come to know your ICE set up.
A simple glance at the billion pruis cars on the road will tell you hybrid is the best path.
- No Sir, it was and will remain one one Toyota's biggest mistakes - it ushered in the EV era but failed to deliver and seeded 100% of that to Elon. The long serving President of Toyota just retired (pushed out), his one regret is he believed in Hydrogen as the 'next' thing and didn't see the success of Tesla early enough. No, Hybrid is a 100% dead technology and will only be looked at as a smart stepping stone from ICE to EV.
- The billion Prius' proved only one thing: EV (in any form) is not to be feared.
Loose some battery weight and squeeze a little honda Genset in there would be killer.
- How?? The physics of energy density are fixed. Can only get heavier.
- BUT, YES, YES, YES - I've been saying this forever - a little Honda genny is tomorrows' E-Jerry Can. We can, and maybe should on this forum, discuss all the things that can and have gone wrong on the trail to ICE Jeeps then discuss how or if those would have equivalents in the EV Jeep I'm pushing. That way, we'll all know that some of the fears are unfounded AND, it''ll help me think about the very real fears and maybe prepare for some of them with future builds.
Just my two cents.
- 'two cents' - Sir, you're all the way into the full $.50 cent piece worth of advice and thoughts!!!!
THANK YOU!
- Patrick
4x4 EVC
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With an electric motor it is not really about the power band as much as it is the efficiency map. Low speed high torque is very low efficiency. High speed, moderate torque tends to be the happy zone. If I remember, I'll track down the hyper9 efficiency data later.
- Found them:
There's a lot of happy spots in this motor!
400 is not as scary as it sounds. But you may have to step away from the Tesla packs if you go that route, switching for a module with higher voltage but less amp hours.
- You're right, BUT, at a very steep price $$$. Battery technology is moving at warp speed, solid state batteries are knocking at the door of reality. My plan is to make my Kits as modular as possible so as to give future advances a way to plug in without starting over. Tesla packs are available, reliable and coming down in price so I'll stick with them till the next thing comes out.
- Oh, and 400 volts is scary as shit - wear gloves when dealing with any part of High Voltage.
- Patrick
You live in California, don't you? 
What you want to believe about EV and what the reality is seem to be worlds apart. Your vehicle WILL NOT have more range offroad than it's ICE counterpart and saying that like it's fact in this thread doesn't help your case at all. I wish you all the luck in the world with this venture but from the outside looking in I don't see this being viable.
You said you had a waiting list 14 deep at this point but if you were to have product on hand tomorrow to start on the conversions do you realistically think that all 14 people would cough up the $50k to get this done or do you think most of them are blowing smoke up your ass until it comes time to put up or shut up? I'm voting on it being the latter. Doing 4 or 5 conversions a month is pure wish and a prayer type thinking...
Again, great novelty idea a hand full of people with more money than brains might buy into but its not a viable business model.
What you want to believe about EV and what the reality is seem to be worlds apart. Your vehicle WILL NOT have more range offroad than it's ICE counterpart and saying that like it's fact in this thread doesn't help your case at all. I wish you all the luck in the world with this venture but from the outside looking in I don't see this being viable.
You said you had a waiting list 14 deep at this point but if you were to have product on hand tomorrow to start on the conversions do you realistically think that all 14 people would cough up the $50k to get this done or do you think most of them are blowing smoke up your ass until it comes time to put up or shut up? I'm voting on it being the latter. Doing 4 or 5 conversions a month is pure wish and a prayer type thinking...
Again, great novelty idea a hand full of people with more money than brains might buy into but its not a viable business model.
And I really don't think a Jeep I6 is 750lbs. The 7.3 diesel in my 97 Ford weights around that...
4x4 EVC
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No, I figured out how to have a clutchless shifting system. If you want a full explanation, let me know but, in essence, I control the motors rotational speed both in traction and without 'request' (no power) so, I can simulate what the clutch does by slowing the rotational speed of the motor to somewhat match that of an ICE motor returning to idle speed. It's a bit complicated and involves good intentions and high hopes....
ALSO, I figured out how to have SPM (Single Peddle Mode) driving while retaining the ability to shift - that's some damn magic for you on a Friday!
So, agree, if I let the motor do all the work at high RPM, it would most likely blow up the stock transmissions that aren't designed to exceed 5000 - 6000 rpm. Therefore, 2nd and 3rd only.
As it relates to your comments about the torque load on the input shaft and all the down stream connected parts - I worry about what that much torque can do as well. BUT, given how we have ALL abused every single nut and bolt on our Jeeps over the decades, I'm sure once one X-part explodes and breaks due to the motor having more power then the axel shaft, Tom Woods (4xshaft.com/) or someone will capitalize on that and make an EV Drive Shaft series. That's how it's always been right - make a thing that exceeds the spec, blow it up, make the next thing stronger, rinse, repeat.
PLEASE, let your engineering brain unload on me - I feel like I've been dancing alone in a dark room for about a year, ANY and ALL engineering thoughts are VERY welcome!!
Thanks for taking the time to chime in!!
4x4 EVC
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I do, love it here! Are you casting shade on me because of where I live?You live in California, don't you?
What you want to believe about EV and what the reality is seem to be worlds apart. Your vehicle WILL NOT have more range offroad than it's ICE counterpart and saying that like it's fact in this thread doesn't help your case at all. I wish you all the luck in the world with this venture but from the outside looking in I don't see this being viable.
You said you had a waiting list 14 deep at this point but if you were to have product on hand tomorrow to start on the conversions do you realistically think that all 14 people would cough up the $50k to get this done or do you think most of them are blowing smoke up your ass until it comes time to put up or shut up? I'm voting on it being the latter. Doing 4 or 5 conversions a month is pure wish and a prayer type thinking...
Again, great novelty idea a hand full of people with more money than brains might buy into but its not a viable business model.
NO, I said that you will have more time off-road with an EV then with an ICE set up - 'range' is defined differently on-road then off-road. Off-road would be better classified as duration I think. On-road Range, is more link distance.
I also said that I thought of the 14 people on the 'list', I doubt that 1/3 of them will come though - so, agreeing with you on fact vs wishes.
I find it so strange how upset and out on a limb you find yourself with trying to tie the price of the repower conversion to the viability of the idea when everybody who's reading this has either spent more then that on an LS engine swap or knows 3 people who already spent more then that.
PLEASE Good and Kind Sir, go outside and look at your rig and tell me, the Jeep community I inhabit, isn't 100% reckless with our spending when it comes to our Jeeps.
Lastly, yes, of course 4 - 5 a month is a prayer and a hope - what's wrong with that, all new business are built on a prayer and a hope. 5 units per month is 60 a year. Of the 2 million CJ, YJ and TY's out there, you don't think I can tap into .003% of that market?
I do.
PLUS, you don't know my full business plan - it fully involves the possibility that I could also offer selling all the DIY individual parts in a kit form for Customers to do the install themselves. A blind man can see the endless possibilities of a EV Jeep aftermarket.
Doesn't have to happen today or be something that I birth but, it's coming.
- Patrick
4x4 EVC
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Just looked it up, 450 to 600 lbs is what all the threads show - 'dressed' vs bare motor.
I stand corrected, thanks.
Regardless, I need to find a scale!
4x4 EVC
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TOTALY agree - I can build those into the Profile, as a safety. The savvy owner could then remove or change those setting with a laptop.
I was thinking of the idea of a 'gear gate sensor' also - uggg, more design work, oh joy...
Couple new terms you might want to know:
- Derate - where you can bring down things like current to the battery or RPM from the motor if X or Y happens or exceeds Z
- CCL - Charge Current Limit - this is the thing that says the max you can send power to the battery, I mention it because you can use the CCL as a way to indicate too much power coming into the system
- DCL - Discharge Current Limit - same thing but it's a way to know how much is trying to go from battery pack to wheel through the inverter. It's a variable that can be used to limit a bunch of things if needed.
- Faults - of course you know what that is but in EVs, you can use and set faults to control things, in your example, you might set fault for the RPM in X gear from this new sensor you and I are envisioning so as to stop the motor from reaching a higher current request. Stuff like that...
For a man that seems less then thrilled with the whole EV Jeep thing, your head certainly seems to be engaged in all the right questions, and I for one thank you!
- Patrick
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
As an owner of multiple CJs, and other vintage 4x4, this idea ain't worth a velvet painting of a whale and dolphin getting in on.
I have no doubt there's others who think an EV is great, but the application in a 'stock' CJ doesn't offer any advantages. 'till you rework the suspension and steering, the actual driving experience is abysmal. Nestolgia is what drives the value... the effort, smells, noises that you fondly remember to push the vehicle down the road is the enjoyment. Not the flutter of the Jetsons as you struggle to keep it between the lines.
Its a cool hobby project. You'll get the niche market, the dozen of so you speak of, but it's not a sustainable business model.
Someone could spend half that, $15-20k and have a dependable turn key drivetrain for the next decade. As where the EV conversion will be severely dated, and not in a good way.
I have no doubt there's others who think an EV is great, but the application in a 'stock' CJ doesn't offer any advantages. 'till you rework the suspension and steering, the actual driving experience is abysmal. Nestolgia is what drives the value... the effort, smells, noises that you fondly remember to push the vehicle down the road is the enjoyment. Not the flutter of the Jetsons as you struggle to keep it between the lines.
Its a cool hobby project. You'll get the niche market, the dozen of so you speak of, but it's not a sustainable business model.
Someone could spend half that, $15-20k and have a dependable turn key drivetrain for the next decade. As where the EV conversion will be severely dated, and not in a good way.
4x4 EVC
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Well, not with an attitude like that!
Cool, I'll take the 1% of that, call them novelty or copulating sea mammals, I don't care.
Just a quick reminder, Formula E (2020), KOH EV (2023 group) and NASCAR just introduced it's prototype EV.
Sure, you could spend half and have what you have for the foreseeable future but you won't, and neither will anybody else - we spend stupid money on our rigs. Why are you trying to make an argument against this based on costs - I mean, can't you make that argument on the footsteps of SEMA - nobody needs all that stuff, but we buy it so....
Sure, I could be dead wrong, but I'm not.
Here's a quick test that I've used before: If it was free, what would you hate about it then?
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
Was hoping you got the motorsport reference
That's the gimmick, it's the novelty. Have you been to an F1 or nascar event? Without the noise (and crashes) there would be zero entertainment. The KOH EV class was a joke, and everyone knows it.
You are absolutely right l, people spend money on dumb shit. If you focus that idea (like fab fours) then you'll garner that attention. I wouldn't harp on the practicality, but on the novelty.
Goes back to nostalgia, the heart and soul of the vehicle is gone. Tech (battery, modules, et al) will be outdated in a decade and useless. Still have that bag phone?
EVs are excellent commuters for the right person. A big part is the tech such as autonomous driving, valet mode, able to play Mario cart while parked, fart noises...
Embrace the novelty, not the 'advantages over ICE' especially at that price point. I'd try to sort put a direct drive from motor to tcase. All push button.
4x4 EVC
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THERE's the 'glass half full' / '..hold my beer, I can make it over that hill!' Jeep attitude we all love!!!
NO, I never got the drive around in a circle thing that NASCAR has perfected. Even with my first CJ-5a, I always kept them quite, how else would you get your night time golf course driving in???
I'm a big outdoor guy and love driving long meandering trails but hate the heat and noise and grease and smell of the experience with an ICE setup. AND I get it, 100%, the muscle memory of replacing a water pump and the 7 little things next to it is cool, brings you back to all the experiences you had learning and driving and breaking it in the first place. PLUS all your favorite tools to get certain jobs done, that's gone also.
I get it but, and you have no way of knowing this until you have one, it passes surprisingly easily. It's replaced by reliability, quite and the ever present dread you didn't fix X or 'what's that sound?' - all that nostalgia comfortably slips away and you simply enjoy the ride and what it can do.
BUT, I think you've struck on something I missed: Focus on the novelty, the cool, not the benefits. I can't and would be stupid to do that completely but you make a very good point that I'm not doing that at all. Super smart point!
I wasn't pointing out Formula E and the like as proof of my concept, I was pointing out that storied institutions have either embraced it or are putting their arms around what they know will be here. So what if KOH was a joke the first year - you gotta' start somewhere.
Here's a bit from KOH's Wiki page:
The first official race was in 2008, though no spectators were present. Approximately 50 drivers took part.[8] Race teams started in 30-second intervals from Means Dry Lake bed and navigated through the desert on a 50–60 mile set race course to their first rock course.
And now, there's 80,000 to 100,000 attendees - please, poop on the EV side of that all you want, that ain't gonna change or go away.
Hay, THANK YOU for sticking with it and replying - very cool of you!
- Patrick
4x4 EVC
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TRINDU - you wrote this:
Embrace the novelty, not the 'advantages over ICE' especially at that price point. I'd try to sort put a direct drive from motor to tcase. All push button.
I thought I'd break that out to reply...
I worked on this idea also, remove the Transmission completely and go to the TC directly.
Pro's
Con's
Lastly, on my build, I specifically and deliberately stayed away from this whole modern concept that you, the driver, are but a tiny part of the driving experience. That's not how I enjoy my Jeep. When I drive my Jeep, I'm doin' stuff, driving, not sitting back and staring out the (non-existent) window.
Right now, I've locked the motor out of Reverse, you have to use your transmission to go backwards, no button to push. To start the Jeep, you use your stock key in the stock key switch. The only new 'button' is the 3 position switch for picking the Profile you want (No Regen, Light Regen and Heavy Regen). I think the 4xe Jeeps have 4 Profiles and the new Rivian Tri (3 motors) has 19 Profiles (WHAT?!?).
No, when you get in my CJ-EV rig, it's just an old crappy Jeep that runs on electrons instead of gas..
Embrace the novelty, not the 'advantages over ICE' especially at that price point. I'd try to sort put a direct drive from motor to tcase. All push button.
I thought I'd break that out to reply...
I worked on this idea also, remove the Transmission completely and go to the TC directly.
Pro's
- Simplier,
- give you extra space for battery modules since you can tuck the motor into the bellhousing well,
- less parts.
Con's
- You are stuck with only 1:1 plus your diff ratio - that's bad for EVs
- You can't get enough rpm to the wheel that way, lots of torque, no speed forward
- You rob the crawler and stuck bastard from being able to be in 1st and TC Lo to get unstuck
- Shifting is fun
- Complicated adapter to get it to work
- GREATLY reduces the drivers options for gearing
Lastly, on my build, I specifically and deliberately stayed away from this whole modern concept that you, the driver, are but a tiny part of the driving experience. That's not how I enjoy my Jeep. When I drive my Jeep, I'm doin' stuff, driving, not sitting back and staring out the (non-existent) window.
Right now, I've locked the motor out of Reverse, you have to use your transmission to go backwards, no button to push. To start the Jeep, you use your stock key in the stock key switch. The only new 'button' is the 3 position switch for picking the Profile you want (No Regen, Light Regen and Heavy Regen). I think the 4xe Jeeps have 4 Profiles and the new Rivian Tri (3 motors) has 19 Profiles (WHAT?!?).
No, when you get in my CJ-EV rig, it's just an old crappy Jeep that runs on electrons instead of gas..
Until an EV can go the same distance as it's ICE counterpart (AT THE SAME WEIGHT) in one charge and can be recharged as fast as an ICE engine can be fueled up you will not be seeing EVs in motorsports competitively. It's all just a novelty and will not catch on until battery technology improves by leaps and bounds beyond where they are at now.
As a crude example let's use a make believe trophy truck.....
Truck weights 10k race ready and has a 60 gallon fuel cell so of that 10k we are talking roughly 420lbs in fuel. It makes 900hp and gets 4.5 mpg and has a range of about 270 miles running wide open throttle.
How much weight in battery packs would it take to supply 900hp to the electric motor for 270 miles at say an average speed of 70mph?
Truck weights 10k race ready and has a 60 gallon fuel cell so of that 10k we are talking roughly 420lbs in fuel. It makes 900hp and gets 4.5 mpg and has a range of about 270 miles running wide open throttle.
How much weight in battery packs would it take to supply 900hp to the electric motor for 270 miles at say an average speed of 70mph?
4x4 EVC
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I guess it's a damn good thing that's not my market - at all, ever, including tomorrow, ever, not now, not ever, ZERO, not me, don't want to do that.
I was worried you were talking about my project, good thing that's NOT ME or my kit...
BRING on the NOVELTY - I'm ready!
4x4 EVC
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Why are you asking me, how would I know?
Hell, I had NO clue a race truck weighs 10k lbs - I'm shocked (stupid unintentional pun).
I like the challenge of the question but, no idea.
I guess you'd start with your variables:
- Distance: 270 miles
- Land speed (avg): 70mph
- HP: 900hp
- Vehicle max weight: 10,000 lbs
- Energy consumption: 4.5 mi / gal (liquid)
I guess I'd start with the MPG, I don't put much stock in MPGe (it's a bullshit conversion to make ICE owners comfortable, complete bs but all there is) so, at 4.5 mpg that would be: 4.5 MPGe = 0.133511 mi/kWh. I don't think it matters what speed or distance, I think I have to figure out how to add overall vehicle weight in...
So, that means it take .134 kWh to go 1 mile but I don't know at what speed. Don't know were I would go from there. Whatever, I'll ask over at the DIY EV forum, those nerds love stupid hypothetical bs like this.
Here's a factoid: 1 gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7 kWh (kilowatt hours) of electricity.
I'll let you know what the other forum says.