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Jacksonville Air Traffic Controller Protest

DMG said:
A future ditch digger says what?
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For the glory of the worker's revolution or something I suppose. Then back to starve while dig rocks for motherland.

I just thought the irony of that sort of thing being posted here was amusing.
 
There was a dude on CNBC this morning talking about this (maybe union head or something) and he gave some very different answers than I'm seeing in this thread. Very interesting how he changed the narrative.
 
grapehead said:
There was a dude on CNBC this morning talking about this (maybe union head or something) and he gave some very different answers than I'm seeing in this thread. Very interesting how he changed the narrative.
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Care to enlighten us?
 
grapehead said:
I was half paying attention while waking up, but from what I remember he claimed it was pilot logistics/shortages so flights weren't staffed, maybe still covid related.
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So far they have blamed, weather, a software update, ATC that only affected SW planes, and just a random employee shortage that for no reason what so ever just happened to occur after they announced the vaccine mandate.
 
Captain said:
I should have clarified.

Can the FAA have some other ATC employee from a different ATC office perform the job remotely?

Or is this particular ATC job (non-airport location) HAVE to be done in-person-on-site?

How does this play out if the FAA can't get ATCs where they need them?
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I’m sure the technology is there.

The FAA would never let that happen. They could centralize most control (everything but tower) to one location, but they’re not going to open the door to allow some guy to step away from his monitor to cook a grilled cheese.
 
grapehead said:
I was half paying attention while waking up, but from what I remember he claimed it was pilot logistics/shortages so flights weren't staffed, maybe still covid related.
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And we have also heard from SW it weather related when it was calm and blue skies. I probably would believe anything feom the MSM regarding covid or covid related stories.
 
If the shit ever actually hits the fan, I hope the talking heads in the media are some of the first to get vaporized. :flipoff:

Hell, they are out and about as they are not celebrities (I assume they think they are) nor are they politicians with security...so I'd make a toast in honor of them getting toasted.
 
Thefishguy77 said:
And we have also heard from SW it weather related when it was calm and blue skies. I probably would believe anything feom the MSM regarding covid or covid related stories.
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That’s not all a 100% tinfoil situation. Airlines can be penalized by losing arrival slots or fines for delaying flights if it their fault. If they call weather, it can sidestep that for a bit.
 
Thumping said:
If the shit ever actually hits the fan, I hope the talking heads in the media are some of the first to get vaporized. :flipoff:

Hell, they are out and about as they are not celebrities (I assume they think they are) nor are they politicians with security...so I'd make a toast in honor of them getting toasted.
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DirtRoads said:
That’s not all a 100% tinfoil situation. Airlines can be penalized by losing arrival slots or fines for delaying flights if it their fault. If they call weather, it can sidestep that for a bit.
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Facts
 
Looked into ATC jobs because it appears there may be some openings soon. You have to be under 30 years old to even apply. How is this not age discrimination? :flipoff2:
 
Captain said:
This may be a dumb question:

Can the Air Traffic Controller's job be done remotely? (This particular ATC location is not at an airport...)

When 32 out of 35 in one office don't show...(and hopefully continue to do so)...is it easy for the FAA to fill their vacancies remotely?
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My job in the Army was an Aviation Operations Specialist, at AIT we trained along side the ATC's and both MOS's merged once you hit E-7, IIRC. The ATC's were in AIT for I think 4-6 months, while we were there about 8 weeks. So learning to be an ATC isn't something you're going to "pick up" with On-The-Job-Training. On top of that, it is possibly the most stressful job someone can have.

As for working remote, the technology might be there, but I doubt it. ATC's are constantly monitoring blips on the radar and while it is likely much more computer/software based than when I was in, it would require a highly stable internet connection. For a normal "work from home" job, if your internet goes down for a couple of minutes, you just have to wait to send that email or open/save that file (many times you might not even notice it went down!). If you were WFH as an ATC and your internet went down for a couple of minutes, while it was down two planes collided in mid-air killing 200-500 people.
 
MChat said:
My job in the Army was an Aviation Operations Specialist, at AIT we trained along side the ATC's and both MOS's merged once you hit E-7, IIRC. The ATC's were in AIT for I think 4-6 months, while we were there about 8 weeks. So learning to be an ATC isn't something you're going to "pick up" with On-The-Job-Training. On top of that, it is possibly the most stressful job someone can have.

As for working remote, the technology might be there, but I doubt it. ATC's are constantly monitoring blips on the radar and while it is likely much more computer/software based than when I was in, it would require a highly stable internet connection. For a normal "work from home" job, if your internet goes down for a couple of minutes, you just have to wait to send that email or open/save that file (many times you might not even notice it went down!). If you were WFH as an ATC and your internet went down for a couple of minutes, while it was down two planes collided in mid-air killing 200-500 people.
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So that scene from Breaking Bad is pretty accurate?

 
woods said:
So that scene from Breaking Bad is pretty accurate?

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Fairly. The radar in the video looks pretty much like the ones I saw during training (our class "toured" the ATC tower at Ft. Rucker, AL); that was over 30 years ago, so I imagine the technology may have changed. But then again, knowing the govt... :laughing:

There are a number of "almost a crash" scenarios every year around the world due to ATC mistakes; occasionally a mistake will cause an actual accident. I think it is actually pretty rare to have a mid-air collision, even in adverse weather conditions (where visibility is low enough to prevent visual observation of the other aircraft). To have a mid-air collision on a clear bright day would take some pilots seriously not paying attention, as you can see from the video, there's a giant "bubble" around the aircraft, while it looks small on the screen, it's actually like a mile in diameter and proximity warnings would go off in both the aircraft and the ATC center. A "near miss" is considered when aircraft pass within 500 feet of each other.
 
MChat said:
Fairly. The radar in the video looks pretty much like the ones I saw during training (our class "toured" the ATC tower at Ft. Rucker, AL); that was over 30 years ago, so I imagine the technology may have changed. But then again, knowing the govt... :laughing:

There are a number of "almost a crash" scenarios every year around the world due to ATC mistakes; occasionally a mistake will cause an actual accident. I think it is actually pretty rare to have a mid-air collision, even in adverse weather conditions (where visibility is low enough to prevent visual observation of the other aircraft). To have a mid-air collision on a clear bright day would take some pilots seriously not paying attention, as you can see from the video, there's a giant "bubble" around the aircraft, while it looks small on the screen, it's actually like a mile in diameter and proximity warnings would go off in both the aircraft and the ATC center. A "near miss" is considered when aircraft pass within 500 feet of each other.
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Good stuff. So its a line of people chattering what seems like banter over the radio waves with thousands and thousands of people at their finger tips. Man, that's got to be an excruciating career.
 
woods said:
Good stuff. So its a line of people chattering what seems like banter over the radio waves with thousands and thousands of people at their finger tips. Man, that's got to be an excruciating career.
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I'm not sure what the ATC centers are like as far as a work environment goes. But the tower ATC's at an airfield get the plane up and then "hand off" to an ATC at one of the regional centers, which pass the plane along to other regional ATC's as it flies across the US, before being finally "handed off" to the tower ATC at the landing airfield. Unless the pilot is doing Visual Flight Regulations, then the tower ATC's only get involved to get the plane up and down, the pilot must stay below a specified ceiling (15k feet?) and avoid airfield's areas of operation unless being guided by that airfield's tower.

But yea, for the ATC's it's like playing 3D Chess, everyday, all day.
 
RusM said:
Looked into ATC jobs because it appears there may be some openings soon. You have to be under 30 years old to even apply. How is this not age discrimination? :flipoff2:
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It’s actually kind of interesting how ATC gets hired. It’s not like anything else that I know of.

You apply for the job off of the street and get hired directly to the FAA. The odd thing is that there aren’t really any prerequisites, you just take an aptitude test and either get hired or not

From there, you go straight to the ATC academy and spend a several months learning how to do the job. You then prioritize where you want to live based on openings, and get sent out to go to work.

Mandatory retirement at ~60 and you’re done.


MChat said:
I'm not sure what the ATC centers are like as far as a work environment goes. But the tower ATC's at an airfield get the plane up and then "hand off" to an ATC at one of the regional centers, which pass the plane along to other regional ATC's as it flies across the US, before being finally "handed off" to the tower ATC at the landing airfield. Unless the pilot is doing Visual Flight Regulations, then the tower ATC's only get involved to get the plane up and down, the pilot must stay below a specified ceiling (15k feet?) and avoid airfield's areas of operation unless being guided by that airfield's tower.

But yea, for the ATC's it's like playing 3D Chess, everyday, all day.
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VFR rules depend on what airspace you are in and around. I think it’s like 1,500 to stay under the class B here in town but can’t remember exactly
 
Kyle said:
Rumor is AA is cancelling flights now. My mom is stuck out East trying to get home.
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I hope ot continues to spread..I want to see sleepy Joe crap himself on national TV trying to explain this to the people.
 
Purevil71 said:
I hope ot continues to spread..I want to see sleepy Joe crap himself on national TV trying to explain this to the people.
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It's just the weather. Pay no attention to everyone ignoring the elephant in the room that there was no significant weather in Florida last weekend and it didn't seem to affect any other airlines, but it's the weather. Caused by climate change of course.
 
DirtRoads said:
It’s actually kind of interesting how ATC gets hired. It’s not like anything else that I know of.

You apply for the job off of the street and get hired directly to the FAA. The odd thing is that there aren’t really any prerequisites, you just take an aptitude test and either get hired or not

From there, you go straight to the ATC academy and spend a several months learning how to do the job. You then prioritize where you want to live based on openings, and get sent out to go to work.

Mandatory retirement at ~60 and you’re done.





VFR rules depend on what airspace you are in and around. I think it’s like 1,500 to stay under the class B here in town but can’t remember exactly
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Thought it would be an ok way to make >$100k and be able to move elsewhere. :homer:
 
After being in the aviation biz for 20yrs, it's funny listening to non industry people talk about the technical aspects of how shit works:lmao:

Makes me wonder what other professions watch the news and here other people talk and are like "what the fuck that's not how any of that shit works!!"
 
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