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French Tickler Buggy

Maybe I'll be the out lier again, but I just don't see tieing into the cover being worth the hassle. Especially if you're already tied to the pinion and welded to the diff.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Maybe I'll be the out lier again, but I just don't see tieing into the cover being worth the hassle. Especially if you're already tied to the pinion and welded to the diff.
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I don't think he'd need to weld to the diff if it was tied into the cover.
Which way does the axle itself try to twist if the vehicle is in a forward gear? I believe it is pinion up. That means the rotational force is going to try to tear the truss off from the rear of the housing using the top links, which is probably part of the reason his original truss broke completely off. It was torn off back to front.
 
Sterlingfire said:
I don't think he'd need to weld to the diff if it was tied into the cover.
Which way does the axle itself try to twist if the vehicle is in a forward gear? I believe it is pinion up. That means the rotational force is going to try to tear the truss off from the rear of the housing using the top links, which is probably part of the reason his original truss broke completely off. It was torn off back to front.
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The pinion is trying to go up, which means the pinion tie in will be in compression and do 10x's more than a few bolts in tension to the diff cover.
 
I don't mind welding to the diff.
And I agree with the masshole that it would be the best/strongest solution.

Adding the tab to the diff cover was another idea to add strength. I agree with YotaAtieToo that it may not be worth it. I like the idea though.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
The pinion is trying to go up, which means the pinion tie in will be in compression and do 10x's more than a few bolts in tension to the diff cover.
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I disagree. You're not completely wrong, but IMO adding a bridge plate to the cover is superior to welding to the diff, and to the pinion bridge. Maybe not superior to both at the same time, but one on one it is. The pinion bridge will not negate the ability of the upper links to tear the back of the truss forward... the pinion bridge will just bend at the point it ties to the truss, or try to tear the top of the truss off. You're fighting more then simple for and aft movement, you're also fighting upward forces that the pinion bridge cannot withstand in all situations.
Welding to the diff has it's own issues, and(also IMO) is far more work then tieing the truss to the cover.
You know you can use more then a few bolts as well, you could also go with larger hardware if it so tickled your fancy:flipoff2:
Not trying to start a pissing match at all here because this is all IMO of course.
 
Sterlingfire said:
I disagree. You're not completely wrong, but IMO adding a bridge plate to the cover is superior to welding to the diff, and to the pinion bridge. Maybe not superior to both at the same time, but one on one it is. The pinion bridge will not negate the ability of the upper links to tear the back of the truss forward... the pinion bridge will just bend at the point it ties to the truss, or try to tear the top of the truss off. You're fighting more then simple for and aft movement, you're also fighting upward forces that the pinion bridge cannot withstand in all situations.
Welding to the diff has it's own issues, and(also IMO) is far more work then tieing the truss to the cover.
You know you can use more then a few bolts as well, you could also go with larger hardware if it so tickled your fancy:flipoff2:
Not trying to start a pissing match at all here because this is all IMO of course.
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No way the little diff cover tie in is stronger than either of the other methods. Not following your thought process at all :laughing:
 
Bebop said:
Thank you for this.
Confirms what I'm thinking.

What brand are you using ?
Crane (I'm leaning towards these guys) are supposed to be made of "Cast from high strength 8620 Chromoly Steel"

craneaxle.com

GM 13 Bolt Differential Cover

Diff Covers are Shipped as Unfinished Steel
craneaxle.com craneaxle.com
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That would make sense considering their knuckles and inner C's are made from the same material.
 
Bebop said:
I don't mind welding to the diff.
And I agree with the masshole that it would be the best/strongest solution.

Adding the tab to the diff cover was another idea to add strength. I agree with YotaAtieToo that it may not be worth it. I like the idea though.
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I get your approach. "tie all the things together" and obviously every little bit counts.

I just like the cover to be separate personally and don't think it will do as much as the other methods. But it certainly won't hurt.

I also like those crane covers over the typical plate steel stuff. I noticed that 1" flat face big time the first time I went out with my D60 front :homer:
 
Bebop said:
Thank you for this.
Confirms what I'm thinking.

What brand are you using ?
Crane (I'm leaning towards these guys) are supposed to be made of "Cast from high strength 8620 Chromoly Steel"

craneaxle.com

GM 13 Bolt Differential Cover

Diff Covers are Shipped as Unfinished Steel
craneaxle.com craneaxle.com
Click to expand...

I have original Riddler D60/14Bolt covers which I believe were made in CO at the same foundry as OG Crane, they were advertised as "high grade ductile iron". Might have been the difference in cost back in the day if Crane parts were 8620 or maybe they used the same material. I don't know if WOD Crane uses the same foundry now or not. I put a new Crane 13 bolt on our 2nd rig here a few years ago also working great.
 
Satan's_Minion said:
I have original Riddler D60/14Bolt covers which I believe were made in CO at the same foundry as OG Crane, they were advertised as "high grade ductile iron". Might have been the difference in cost back in the day if Crane parts were 8620 or maybe they used the same material. I don't know if WOD Crane uses the same foundry now or not. I put a new Crane 13 bolt on our 2nd rig here a few years ago also working great.
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I think Woodlee moved the manufacturing / foundry of all the Crane parts after he took over.
That said I don't anticipate any issues from them. I hope.
 
Bebop said:
Thoughts on the Busted Knockoff design ?

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Incorporate the link pockets into the truss to keep the truss and link height low as possible to allow more uptravel. The more upright you can get the angled tubes the less twist they will see.
If you go all the way to the spindle add more triangles. The closer you can get the truss to the pumpkin the less amount of material there is to twist. I beams don't have near the same rotational strength as a fully boxed tube in most of our applications. Four upright / \ /\ angled tubes will double your rotational torque. Don't solely rely your pumpkin spot welds to hold the tubes by connecting the truss to your pumpkin or pinion. The truss should hold the axle forces to the suspension without needing the pumpkin. If you have enough torque through the drivetrain then add pumpkin tie in's. Not the other way around.
If you are not bumping on the truss then a full length truss on the top is not going to help anymore than a narrower truss. Since you are running link mounted bypasses, I see no reason to run full length, save the weight. You are dealing with rotational issues only.
If you miter tube, bevel the rec. tube to a V and then add reinforcement plates.
FYI I used 2"X3"X3/16" rec. tube. with 3/8" plates. The upper link pockets are 3"X3"X1/4" with welded in DOM spacers to allow free range of movement for the misalignment spacers. The upper rear truss is 3/4"X3" cold rolled plate with 2"X3"X3/16" rec. tube gussets. This allowed 1-1/4" more uptravel.



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Bebop said:
The truss is completely tweaked. It ripped half the material at the toe of the weld.

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The axle was rotating pinion upward when it twisted. This means that the force was induced by wheel torque and not from suspension bottoming out, which would have an opposite rotational torque due to the links and mounting tabs. Whatever truss you go with does not need to be concerned with bump or vertical loading as much as it has to do with rotational torque.
 
Here was the old drag axle from my old buggy. Tried to tie truss in the diff, truss/shock mounts go full width to brake flange, and tried to keep lightish with 3" x 1/4" strap for the horizontal plates and internal webbing and swiss cheese 1/8" for the verticle plates. Upper rod ends in the truss since the top of that truss was like 1/2" from chassis at bump. Was a seriously fast axle with all those speed holes :lmao:

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Thanks for all the input and good ideas guys, keep em coming !

Oh, and for those who were wondering, the cobbled together truss did great all 3 days of riding. I beat the living shit out of it, even saved a roll by jumping down a ledge in reverse and landing on one tire only, nothing moved.

HYDRODYNAMIC : I like the logical approach to the madness and the reasoning behind why not making this a full width truss. I don't have any uptravel issues with the current setup, could add another 3" if I wanted. The tubes were bent a little too, from jumping I'm assuming. I'm also worried about twisting the tubes since I did just that on the left side when the truss went. No matter what, a pinion tie-in is happening. Maybe I'm overthinking this, but full width truss sounds a lot safer though. And I'm not sure I'd be saving a lot of weight by staying narrow.

SteerAndStuff : The whole truss design is badass, thank you for sharing ! I'm gonna use it as a big inspiration for sure. Maybe less speed holes :dustin:
 
Downside to the pocketed rod end mount is to remove a link it cant just swing out and causes more disassembly for task like replacing a worn joint.
 
Bebop said:
She's ready for disassembly.

Hopefully I'll have an update sometime in the next 6/8 months...

Goal is back together late September.
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What's on the list besides the truss with a September deadline? Skins?

Hope you're staying bare chassis, was never a fan of the idea until I saw your rig, personally I think the bare chassis looks awesome.:smokin:
 
Chassis reinforcements, new steering setup, new cooling setup, new subframe/skid plate, new wiring harness and a bunch of little improvements.

Maybe a new seat / safety shit, this weekend showed me I needed a HANS at least.

No skins, no paint. Unless someone wants to sponsor me and I need to put their logo somewhere, but I don't see this happening.
 
Bebop said:
Unless someone wants to sponsor me and I need to put their logo somewhere, but I don't see this happening.
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I'll donate a case of rustoleum and won't even require a sticker. But I get to pick the color...
 
Pulled this from the "Buggy Builds and Lessons Learned" thread.
What works well?
​
Hydroboost brakes will send you through the windshield (can lock tires at 60mph on pavement no problem).​
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Found a couple pictures in the build thread that kinda show what you have. Wilwoods up front with 3/8" solid rotors, unsure of the rear calipers/rotors.

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Rear Buggy.jpg


I have WOD Hydroboost with Wilwood Dynalites and vented rotors. Reading through some tech revealed that they "flex" and you don't/won't get the braking performance we're looking for in low range on a rig with 43's. My setup stops, but feel like it should be better. I believe the dynalites with spacers for the vented rotors are the problem.

I'm willing to spend the coin to get kungfu/gucci brakes, just don't want to go through multiple iterations.

Didn't see a whole lot of info in the build thread on what you're running. Can you detail out what you have? Hydroboost (ported for more flow?), pedal ratio, master cylinder bore size, front rotors, front calipers (piston size?), rear calipers/rotors and brackets? Really interested in what you went with in the rear. Looks like some kind of factory caliper and possibly a vented rotor. I'm hopeful I can reuse some of my current setup. Any info is appreciated.
 
Wouldn’t seem like you need much brakes in low range. Just let off the gas and it nearly stands on its nose. My rig has hydro boost and it stops good on 46’s, but I don’t think I could lock em on pavement at 60 mph.
 
WaterH said:
Wouldn’t seem like you need much brakes in low range. Just let off the gas and it nearly stands on its nose.
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I don't know what gear ratios you have or the rolling resistance of your drivetrain/tire combo, but I promise you that if I let go of the gas at 40mph in low range, my car will definitely NOT stand on its nose.
 
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