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Edison Motors

Skinny said:
Please explain to me how anyone that uses a vehicle for work is going to implement this in a non-cost prohibited manner and actually get service for it nationwide?

Correct answer is you can't. You will run the emission shit whether you like it or not and eat the repair costs because your local dealer will only work on your newer truck that way.
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Not always..
 
I don't see it. It's going to remain YouTube fodder. Maybe these guys will get some grant money and create kits. Highly doubtful it goes anywhere outside of niche market. Think Cummins R2.8 level. Sure it exists, not exactly taking over the world of repower.

I'm not saying I don't like any of it. I think it's all cool. But when you have to play with Uncle Sam and the EPA, have a product that most likely will require some level of financing involved, and at this time literally is nowhere near EPA compliant with current standards let alone the next Tier coming down the pipeline I don't see it.
 
Skinny said:
I don't see it. It's going to remain YouTube fodder. Maybe these guys will get some grant money and create kits. Highly doubtful it goes anywhere outside of niche market. Think Cummins R2.8 level. Sure it exists, not exactly taking over the world of repower.

I'm not saying I don't like any of it. I think it's all cool. But when you have to play with Uncle Sam and the EPA, have a product that most likely will require some level of financing involved, and at this time literally is nowhere near EPA compliant with current standards let alone the next Tier coming down the pipeline I don't see it.
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I'm far from well versed in EPA Emissions Compliance/Standards, but do recall a video from Edison in which they stated something to the effect that when the diesel engine is used as a generator, there are no Emissions Compliance/Standards to be met. I'm sure there are various gray areas in that explanation too though.
 
Unless they are buying generators from a third world country it is going to have emissions on it. You'd never be able to get them in the country and still not legal.

The only engines I see without SCR or DOC are little guys like 30 horse and smaller diesels. Past that they have DOC cats. Once you get into like 50kw (don't quote me on that) they have SCR and require DEF. No exceptions...they don't exist anymore. Tier 4 is tier 4 either way you slice it whether on road, off road, Marine, power generation, etc.

Supposedly off-road or emergency power generation doesn't have to meet Tier 4 according to the EPA charts but I don't think that is what is out in the real world.
 
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I think one of their recent videos was saying that the Scandia V8 is current tier compliant without DEF for what that's worth. I wonder what other consequences that has. Remember Edison is Canadian too so they aren't dealing with "our" EPA but with the Canuk equivalent.
 
Mr. Mindless said:
I think one of their recent videos was saying that the Scandia V8 is current tier compliant without DEF for what that's worth. I wonder what other consequences that has. Remember Edison is Canadian too so they aren't dealing with "our" EPA but with the Canuk equivalent.
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Canada is a copy cat of California in most cases.
 
Often the problem with emission equipment is when the engine is being used outside of its ideal range, which is most of the time when people are driving to the mall. An engine running full load at rated power should give less trouble than one being putted around.
 
I think you're right, and with all the emission control reliability issues in the past 15 years, that alone may make a diesel-electric worth its weight in reliability in certain circumstances? I don't know enough about whether certain industry segments have a rougher time with emissions breakdowns than others.
 
That is true that if it's running under load it's better for the system operation. I've had new gems plug up with 100 hours from not being under load. Which makes no sense of how that is even possibly engineered to work that way.

How Scania makes an engine with no DEF is beyond me. I mean blowing fuel through it and keeping combustion cool will do the same. Maybe they have uber expensive EGR systems. No idea.

Either way none of these things actually work on the real world let alone outside of warranty. The only fix are block off plates and tunes :eek:
 
It just seems too good to be true by a long shot. How they're doing it without cheating is beyond me and I'm sure since VW got caught everyone looks for that (which is how the Mopar ecodiesels got caught, not sure if there were others as well)
 
1oddtech said:
Over 700 HP no dpf or scr is required which I believe is what Edison is doing
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Do you have any source for this? Every Tier 4 chart I have looked at simply states 750+ horse are all required at this point. So I'm not sure where that is applicable except in a third world country.
 
So that sounds like they found a strategy that lowers NOx without needing SCR and DEF fluid. Probably all new combustion chamber design, more EGR, better EGR cooling, etc.

Guaranteed it will still have a particulate filter.

The end game here with the next bump in Tier compliance will most likely be forcing manufacturers to redesign the entire engine and fuel system.

This will cause reliability issues due to production and manufacturing changes, retooling, etc. There will be a lag in technician training, parts availability, etc. The EPA will mandate the mileage warranty increase on these new systems to ensure proper operation. That will drive pricing up, force you into an even deeper relationship with the dealer.

There is zero light at the end of the tunnel. Not to be political but unless we get a government that says what the EPA did with these regulations is wrong, which the courts have already deemed true, with political figures walking back this bullshit. People realizing that the new upcoming economies of the world (China, India, etc.) are polluting infinity more then us. Will we ever get a break.

Otherwise keep stroking it and move to a state where your delete kit is overlooked. ITS NEVER GETTING BETTER FOR DIESEL ENGINES...PERIOD
 
I think the big thing with EPA BS in this case is technically the truck isn't powered by the diesel engine at all. It's just a generator. I would think they could even go a step further to get away with it in one of those "buy our all electric truck and we will throw in a generator free!" and the owner has to hook up one wire or something so the truck didn't come factory equipped with it. Kinda how they were selling trucks with no motor and how rally fighters were a kit car because the owner installed the engine with help at the factory.

I hope they do well just to see a smaller company get the $$ that would go to big companies with billionaire CEO's. I mean is competition a bad thing for a consumer in most cases? I could see the truck working for more than outright logging duty but not for a over the road long distance guy. Maybe like the fleet of local delivery trucks or reefer trucks tapping into the onboard power.
 
350TacoZilla said:
I think the big thing with EPA BS in this case is technically the truck isn't powered by the diesel engine at all. It's just a generator. I would think they could even go a step further to get away with it in one of those "buy our all electric truck and we will throw in a generator free!" and the owner has to hook up one wire or something so the truck didn't come factory equipped with it. Kinda how they were selling trucks with no motor and how rally fighters were a kit car because the owner installed the engine with help at the factory.

I hope they do well just to see a smaller company get the $$ that would go to big companies with billionaire CEO's. I mean is competition a bad thing for a consumer in most cases? I could see the truck working for more than outright logging duty but not for a over the road long distance guy. Maybe like the fleet of local delivery trucks or reefer trucks tapping into the onboard power.
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That's been my understanding as well in relation to a generator technicality.

Agreed on smaller company doing well and competition. They are also after the heavy equipment service trucks and other specialty type trucks that are used daily but not long haul/OTR.
 
I don’t know about any of these regs for big on-road stuff. But after a certain year, every offroad engine over a small HP rating (at least used to be 130hp) has to meet Tier 4. We use 2500-3000hp pumps on location, and you want the older engines that have been rebuilt so you can skip the Tier 4 stuff. We occasionally use a fleet of MTU 3000hp engines that hit Tier 4 without DEF, and they actually seem to be fairly reliable engines. So, it can be done. No idea on the cost or longevity.
 
Gensets aren't classified by on or off-road for obvious reasons. It's more like primary (no utility service, sole source of power) or emergency standby (think strictly backup, less runtime).

Either one still needs to meet Tier 4 no matter it's being used for if being manufactured new. End of story regardless of what your plans to use it for are.

So if they are selling the trucks with a free new genset it's going to be Tier 4. If they are repowering older gensets I could see that as a loop hole until someone from the EPA figures it out and throws it in the same bin as Glider Kit trucks. They will find you...

I also remember years ago emergency trucks could get a waiver to run with no DOC or SCR systems. Mostly because the fire and ambulances houses were burning down. Can't go into regen idling on the exhaust hose inside 🤦

Seems like everything I see these days has the special exhaust tips and clean idle stickers so guessing that waiver is long gone.

Regardless my take hasn't changed. There will be a day where pre 08 engines and equipment will be worth more then gold. Then the government will either outlaw them 100% or do something like a cash for clunkers to eradicate them. Mark my mother fucking words bitches...

Don't get me wrong, I despise every bit of all of this from the EPA and the equipment they force up on us. I'm just staying the facts ma'am.
 
Do you know about commercial use regs in CA, Skinny? Already happened, and quite a while ago now. Just only in Cali so far
 
No idea

I know they are banning small engines under a certain HP rating which affects anything from a weed whacker to a standby generator.

What is up with CA now?
 
Oh my god it's a particulate disaster...

So California is able to completely modify the original equipment engine by putting an aftermarket DPF on it because they say so. If you don't no registration or sticker for you. Wow...get ready because that will be how the rest of the states follow in 5-10 years.

If they spent the same amount of resources in carbon capture and cleaning the environment as they did in engineering an aftermarket DPF, the bloated government system to enforce it, revenue lost because old trucks weren't made to work with these things, and the cost to fix them...it would have been most likely better for the environment.

I think a good lawyer could find their way out of this. The vehicle complied with emissions regs when it was manufactured. Go fucking pound sand if you don't like it. This opens up so many issues with the government retroactively making up laws requiring compliance.
 
the battery capacity used for that was pretty impressive to me.

I also now understand why log bunks are usually beat to shit :homer:
 
Weasel said:


pretty cool!
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Watched most of that, pretty cool, I'm really rooting for these guys.

Mr. Mindless said:
the battery capacity used for that was pretty impressive to me.
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I'm curious to see it going up the mountain empty and down loaded. Damn near free energy :laughing:

Mr. Mindless said:
I also now understand why log bunks are usually beat to shit :homer:
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Ya, now imagine it's 3am in the middle of the woods and you got a guy slinging logs as quick as he can.
 
So essentially built a smaller scale locomotive :lmao:

So how many days till they get an official EPA letter and their videos get pulled on YouTube?
 
I've been watching these guys for a while now. I remember when they laid a pair of frame rails on saw horses and began building a truck. That truck is now road legal, licensed and hauling logs. I would say that is pretty good for some loggers, drivers, and mechanics on a dirt floor in a tarp quancit in BC.

These guys are the real deal and even took on government corruption in the process. They also have the guys from DeBoss Garage doing the pickup retrofit.
 
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