E4OD transmission swap

[Provience]

alright, procrastination continues and now i've got questions.

Slowly gathering stuff to swap away from my C6 behind my 400.

1989 F350 7.3L C6 swap to OD Trans

OK so i'm going to look at a good deal 1989 F350 with a 7.3L with a C6 trans with 160K Miles. The front axle is also a monobeam style 2WD could I swap out the trans to a E40D or newer 4R100 with 4x4 and swap in a 8 lug solid front axle to convert to 4x4 and get a US Shift controller to handle...

irate4x4.com

the above thread talks about making the swap behind a 7.3 IDI.

72Pstroke says:

I forget what years (Early 90's?) it was available, but Ford offered the E4OD with the 7.3 IDI. They used a standalone ECU, and I think a standalone harness. I think there is a FIPL (fuel injection pump lever) sensor on the engine, and that was about it.
Or put a ZF5 in it.

granted, i'll need about twice the RPM that the IDI is shifting at, but it leads me to my thoughts from earlier in the day.

Can I use a PCM for a 1990 460 w/E4OD, which is ~$1-200, and run it with the transmission harness hooked up and just tag the engine with a TPS signal and tachometer signal? 1978 F250 with edelbrock carb would be easy enough to adapt to a TPS.

OE No. F0TF-ATA and/or OE No. E9TF-RA according to Rock Auto

the other option is the great tunability options from US Shift or MSD or others, those are ~$700-1,000 for wiring, plug and play.

rattle_snake 1972 F-250 2wd to 4wd build is running the US SHIFT quick 6 for his 6r80




edit: addding a link here EEC-IV basics EEC-IV tech info thread, all over

 

[Provience]

If you are willing to perform considerable modifications for a custom application, it is possible to use a factory Ford ECM designed for the E4OD transmission in combination with a non-electronically controlled engine, provided you have access to critical inputs such as RPM, TPS, and MAP.

In this scenario, you would need to devise a custom wiring harness and adapt the sensors and input signals to match what the ECM expects. The key components to ensure transmission shift control would include:

1. RPM Sensor: You would need to ensure that the RPM sensor or signal from the engine is compatible with the ECM's requirements. This sensor provides information about engine speed.
2. Throttle Position Sensor (TPS): The TPS signal is important for indicating driver input to the ECM, and you would need to adapt this sensor to your non-electronically controlled engine's throttle.
3. MAP Sensor: If the ECM for your E4OD-equipped vehicle uses a MAP sensor, you would need to provide this sensor or adapt your non-electronically controlled engine to provide a MAP signal. The MAP sensor helps the ECM determine engine load, which affects transmission control.

Since you mentioned a 1990 Ford 460 gas engine, it likely uses a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor rather than a Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor for measuring engine load. The specific configuration may depend on the vehicle, but many Ford vehicles of that era used MAP sensors.

Keep in mind that custom adaptations like this can be complex, and you may need to adjust the ECM's programming to suit the specific requirements of your setup. Additionally, ensuring compatibility with the ECM's diagnostic and error code systems can be a challenge. Custom wiring, sensors, and potentially custom software modifications may be necessary.

It's crucial to consult with experienced professionals or aftermarket specialists who have expertise in custom engine and transmission control setups to ensure the successful integration of the E4OD transmission with your non-electronically controlled engine.

from CHATGPT...the internet AI thinks I need TPS/MAP/TACH signals at a minimum. It also had an earlier thought that i'd need an O2 sensor as well, that one doesn't make much sense to me, and wasn't carried forward from the chatbot as we went forward. It'd be simple, simple to get those adapted.

 

[Provience]

[ATTACH=full]770409[/ATTACH]
miesk5
35300 posts · Joined 2003

#7 · Jan 15, 2012
yo,
Here is my E4OD Changes through the Years Summary
to begin with, here is the Ford TSB;
TSB 89-09-18 Introduction to the E4OD
ISSUE: The E4OD is a new 4-speed automatic overdrive transmission. The E4OD transmission was derived from the C-6 automatic (3-speed) transmission.

ACTION: Use the following information to familiarize yourself with the various E4OD components. This information can help you explain the operation of the transmission to the customer.

The E4OD uses electronics to control shift points, pressure regulation and torque converter clutch control. This provides high quality shifts, good fuel economy and overall performance. The engine and transmission are monitored with diagnostic testing available through the EEC-IV Quick Test. The E4OD operations are provided by both operator selected positions of the manual selector lever and with an overdrive cancel switch located on the instrument panel.

FUNCTIONS
P (Park), R (Reverse), and N (Neutral) are the same as other Ford automatic transmissions.
D (Overdrive - normal driving position) provides all automatic shifts through fourth gear (overdrive) along with application and release of the converter clutch. The transmission may also be shifted manually between all forward ranges.
D (Overdrive - with overdrive cancel switch activated, amber light on. This position is selected by pushing the button on the instrument panel, or shift stalk on later models.) provides all automatic shifts, including the application and release of the converter clutch, except the shift into overdrive. It is used to provide additional engine braking for descending grades.
2 (Manual second) provides only second gear operation regardless of vehicle speed. It is useful for start-up on slippery surfaces or to provide engine braking on downgrades.
1 (Manual low) provides only low (1st) gear at start-ups. At higher speeds it results in a downshift to second gear followed by an automatic downshift to low which occurs when vehicle speed decreases enough. Once in low, the transmission will stay in low until the selector is moved to another position.

ELECTRONIC CONTROL

• The E4OD is electronically controlled by a microprocessor known as the EEC-IV processor (electronic control assembly, ECA). The EEC-IV processor controls both the engine and the transmission on gasoline engine applications in the same microprocessor. On diesels the ECA controls the transmission only.
• Electronic control also provides powertrain system diagnostic capabilities which will result in earlier and more accurate resolution of E4OD malfunctions.
• Service technicians can detect many types of transmission concerns if they occur during the standard EEC-IV "Quick Test" on both gas and diesel use.
• Additionally, the overdrive cancel switch indicator light will flash during certain conditions which will inform the driver to go to a Ford dealer for servicing.
• The processor gathers information from sensors located throughout the vehicle which are monitoring vehicle operating conditions. Using this information, the processor determines the best operating state for the transmission. A solenoid body assembly, containing five solenoids, receives the processor signals which in turn produces the desired mode of operation.
• Altitude compensation for shift quality and cold ambient warm-up strategy are also provided in the electronic controls. This eliminates the need for changes to the transmission for operating in mountainous regions. It also allows the E4OD to operate effectively even in extreme cold.
• An overdrive cancel switch allows lockout of overdrive with the push of a button. The switch is located on the instrument panel and is useful for providing increased engine braking on downhill grades. Depressing the switch will lock out overdrive (amber light turns on). Pressing it again, will change the system back to normal operation. Whenever the ignition key is turned on, the vehicle will automatically provide overdrive operation regardless of the switch position the last time the vehicle was running.

FUNCTIONAL COMPONENTS
Components from the intermediate brake drum rearward to the output shaft and extension housing seal are similar to the C-6 automatic transmission. However, the E4OD planetary gears have a higher contact ratio for quieter operation. Forward of the intermediate brake drum, the E4OD components are new. These new
parts are:

Center support assembly
Overdrive ring gear
Coast clutch
Overdrive sun gear and planet gear assembly
Pump and support assembly
Converter and clutch/damper assembly

The E4OD has wider forward gear ratios than the C-6 as shown below.
Gear - C6 - E4OD
1st - 2.46 - 2.71
2nd - 1.46 - 1.538
3rd - 1.00 - 1.00
OD - NA - 0.712
Rev - 2.18 - 2.18
Currently there are 12 E4OD models for use in F-250/350 (4x2 and 4x4), Econoline (5.8L/7.3L Diesel/7.5L) and F Super Duty (7.3L Diesel/7.5L). For details in diagnosing, testing, disassembling and assembling, see Section 17-09 of the 1989 Truck Shop Manual. Also see the E4OD Theory and Diagnosis Technical Training Manual (Order No. 1710-012). The E4OD, like the C-6, is filled with Mercon fluid. The fluid should be changed every 30,000 miles for severe service use. See the bottom of this page for proper fluid application..."

Any differences in E4OD transmission?

Hey guys, been looking at 90-96 Broncos maybe as a replacement for my 78. Don't know much about the later models, and have searched and found out these (90-96) have the E4OD transmission. My question is; does the 302 and the 351W have the exact same transmission? I'm thinking the 351W has...

www.fullsizebronco.com

and an FAQ

E4OD Diagnosis Thread

I have seen a plethra of E4OD problem threads popping up lately. I hope that this thread will help guide those with issues through the diagnostic and maybe even the repair process. Hopefully this can save some of you some time, money, and frustration. The E4OD serves it's purpose but it's...

www.fullsizebronco.com

 

[Provience]

--
In my site under E4OD, I have more TSBs that were made by Ford through the years as improvements or fixes to some problems.
Such as;
Beginning immediately all automatic transmission / transaxle applications requiring MERCON® can now be serviced using MERCON® V or MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid or dual usage fluids labeled MERCON® / MERCON® V. After July 1, 2007, MERCON® Automatic Transmission Fluid will no longer be manufactured, therefore, availability of this fluid will only continue for however long it takes to deplete what remains in inventory.

Transmission Fluid In-Line Filter Kit
After every overhaul or transmission exchange, clean, flush and backflush the transmission fluid cooling system which includes: fluid cooler, auxiliary cooler, cooler lines, and Cooler Bypass Valve (CBV), if equipped. Perform the cooler flow test to ensure proper transmission fluid flow volume on the transmission return line through the cooling system. Once proper fluid flow volume is verified install the Transmission Fluid In-Line Filter Kit (XC3Z-7B155-AA) in the fluid cooler return line (transmission fluid flow coming out of the fluid cooler going into the transmission). Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

Overheating, Burnt Fluid Converter Clutch Discoloration, Forward Clutch Wear, Excessive Bushing Wear - Low One-Way Clutch Malfunction TSB 94-23-18 for 89-94 Bronco, Vans & F Series

Ford E4OD Changes for 1996
The E4OD transmission has had several changes for the 1996 model year.
1) The upper and lower valve body gaskets are new, and have light green stripes for identification.
2) The low/reverse clutch piston now has lip seals instead of lathe cut seals.
3) The pan gasket is now a molded rubber gasket instead of cork.
None of these parts interchange with the old parts!

& by Baumann;
"...If it becomes necessary to overhaul your E4OD transmission, you should perform as many updates as possible if it is a pre-1995 unit. E4OD component updates include, as an example, the following items:

Improved (thicker) converter clutch piston (circa 1994), prevents the formation of cracks which relieve fluid pressure from the apply side of the clutch, causing it to slip and even bluing the outside surface of the torque converter in extreme cases. Ensure that your new converter contains an updated OEM or "LuK" brand heavy-duty clutch. This can be difficult, as many torque converter suppliers and remanufacturers may not use this new style of clutch.

Higher displacement front pump (for 1995) provides more fluid capacity for faster engagement of reverse and greater lube flow.

New (for 1994) 4-pinion overdrive planet and input shaft assemblies replace older 3 and 4 pinion units which tend to develop cracks in the carrier under heavy loads.

Center support update kit (for units built from 1989 through part of 1994) replaces wear-prone bushing with a ball bearing and contains a new overdrive stub shaft.

Stronger overdrive clutch cylinder snap ring which will not dislodge.

Revised sun gear and rear case bushings (circa 1992 model year) provide longer wear life and better lubrication.

Four pinion planet carriers (first used in 1992 model year)

New forward clutch friction plates with hardened internal splines cure "chatter" and "no-drive" conditions in E4OD..."
__________________
Solenoid Body Diode; "...If you use the 95 solenoid pack you either have to use the 95 ECU too or build a PWM flyback circuit because in 94 they moved the PWM flyback circuit from the solenoid pack to the ECU. If you put the 95 solenoid and don't include a PWM flyback circuit you will fry your 92 ECU quick. The easiest option is to use the original solenoid pack. Personally I don't see much of an issue if you will be running the 95 ECU and the 92 solenoid pack. It would put 2 sets of diodes in the circuit each diode drops the line voltage by .7 volts so 2 sets would drop 1.4 volts I could be wrong there though and maybe someone with more electronics knowledge than my self will chime in. There certainly wouldn't be any issues with running the 95 ECU and 95 solenoid pack I don't know if there are any benefits to running the 95 solenoid pack I just know about the flyback circuit from when I was trying to find a new E4OD for mine...
Source: by theramsey3 (Chris) at FSB

Solenoid Body Diode; "...The plugs are different for a reason - there are changes in the solenoid packs, the plugs reflect those changes to make running incompatible parts at least mildly-difficult for most folks. IIRC there are some diodes in the whole mess that in the early transmissions live in the solenoid pack but on the later models they got moved to the PCM, thus making an old-PCM-new-E4OD combo quite troublesome... At least according to someone I know who tried running several older PCMs on a '94 E4OD (that would normally run a newer style PCM) and kept burning them things up one after another... What you're planning on doing tho would be the new-PCM-old-E4OD setup, if my information is correct you will end up with protective diodes in both the trans and the PCM, which should be just fine... Or you can swap solenoid packs between the '96 and the '90 trans, and keep things matching electrically..."
Source: by LCAM-01XA

Solenoid Body info & pics in 94-96 vs earlier years; "these are the S-packs(soleniod packs) the blue is the newer 94+ upgraded pack the other is the old style pack "
Source: by yoomooman (eddy) at SuperMotors.net

Solenoid Body info & pics in 94-96 vs earlier years; "these are the S-packs(soleniod packs) the blue is the newer 94+ upgraded pack the other is the old style pack "
Source: by yoomooman (eddy) at SuperMotors.net



continuation of the above copy/past due to post character limits

 

[Projectjunkie]

If you're not opposed to a manual, go zf5 and don't look back

 

[Provience]

If you're not opposed to a manual, go zf5 and don't look back

I am opposed to manual.

for anybody else, yeah the ZF5 seems to be a rock solid transmission.

 

[TrikeKid]

If I was doing this swap I'd just go with the Quick 4 and be done with it. It's more money yeah, but it's also a proven solution. Those IDI stand alone boxes are pretty scarce. There are some people that have had some success using a Microsquirt to control E4OD/4R100s but it's not super common and it's a lot more involved. You're at minimum going to need TPS and MAP inputs so the transmission controller can see throttle and load input.

 

[Provience]

If I was doing this swap I'd just go with the Quick 4 and be done with it. It's more money yeah, but it's also a proven solution. Those IDI stand alone boxes are pretty scarce. There are some people that have had some success using a Microsquirt to control E4OD/4R100s but it's not super common and it's a lot more involved. You're at minimum going to need TPS and MAP inputs so the transmission controller can see throttle and load input.

quick 4 or quick 2 certainly would be the easierest option. Escpecially since they come with the wiring harness with whatever ends you want on it. Only thing needed to add is the TPS, reverse lights, neutral safety switch. interesting that it doesn't want the brake light.

E4OD transmission troubleshooting help, E4OD rebuilding tips, E4OD technical service bulletins, and E4OD diagnostics from TRNW

going through the list of DTC's related to the ford PCM and E4OD, it looks like, TPS, MAP, Intake Air Temp, Engine Coolant Temp, Brake Switch.

it's interesting that the tachometer signal input is optional for quick 2 and it looks like the ford factory stuff doesn't care about RPM either, more concerned with throttle angle and vacuum, load. which makes sense along with what you are saying above. Seems like the VSS mounted in the tailhousing is what it is using for speed. plus load, throttle angle and the various temperature sensors give it the determination of when and where to shift.

which makes me want to learn away from using the IDI ECM and into using the gasoline ECM.

 

[TrikeKid]

The IAT/ECT shit is mostly for changing the shift strategy to get the engine up to temp, back in the days of yore when this shit was new and EEC-IV was current tech they'd delay the shifts to let the engine spin more and warm up quicker, not really necessary for anything else. Carbed rig doesn't care about getting temp to so it can get into closed loop. I'm interested to see if you can get a gas PCM to run it though, for science. There's not a lot of stand alone support aside from US shift for these transmissions.

The MAP/TPS/VSS are the dancing pixie version of the C6's vacuum modulator, kick down rod and governor, and it's all a transmission really needs.

 

[Provience]

The IAT/ECT shit is mostly for changing the shift strategy to get the engine up to temp, back in the days of yore when this shit was new and EEC-IV was current tech they'd delay the shifts to let the engine spin more and warm up quicker, not really necessary for anything else. Carbed rig doesn't care about getting temp to so it can get into closed loop. I'm interested to see if you can get a gas PCM to run it though, for science. There's not a lot of stand alone support aside from US shift for these transmissions.

The MAP/TPS/VSS are the dancing pixie version of the C6's vacuum modulator, kick down rod and governor, and it's all a transmission really needs.

the getting up to temp is what i'm curious about causing issues. the toyota autos from the same period would lock-out OD if it wasn't up to temp. If it isn't getting a signal, having a weird shift due to that seems like a potential.

Since i've already got a coolant temp, it would just be a matter of adding 1 wire to the harness (or picking up that signal behind the dash). The IAT just needs ambient air and can be mounted anywhere and is ~$20, another thing that could be mounted pretty well anywhere or even under the dash. trans temp is internal to the trans.

having a 1991 e4od keeps the VSS in the tailhousing, according to the internet, either in 1992 or 1994 is when the PCM started looking to the rear differential for VSS and the instrument cluster for programmable speedometer/odometer (PSOM).

which tells me the 1989-1991 PCM is what i'm going to need to find eventually. ebay seems to have several for ~$100, same with car-part.com.

long ways off, but I appreciate the input seems like it could really be a doable thing.

 

[reptillikus]

The VSS is a requirement, it needs to know vehicle speed to know what gear to be in. The 89-91 have it in the tail housing of the trans for 2wd (tcase tail housing for 4wd). 92+ the RABS sensor in the rear diff supplies the speed signal.

 

[Provience]

The VSS is a requirement, it needs to know vehicle speed to know what gear to be in. The 89-91 have it in the tail housing of the trans for 2wd (tcase tail housing for 4wd). 92+ the RABS sensor in the rear diff supplies the speed signal.

Do you believe the 92+ computer would care where the signal comes from? Would I be able to run the vss wires to the earlier vss trans output? That'd be likely the deciding factor on required year for pcm. Solenoid packs can swap between years etc.

 

[reptillikus]

i know on the 92+ the speed signal goes to the VSS where its converted to a digital signal for the PCM. But on the 89-91 there is no VSS so the PCM must do the conversion. So 92+ since the PSOM does the conversion, you have to program a 'constant' into the PSOM itself. Its based off of tire RPM x tone ring teeth # divided by 8000. So:

Constant = Tire Revs per Mile x Tone Ring Teeth / 8000

So for example, my 96 F250. 35" tire with a Sterling 10.25 rear axle. 35s have on average an RPM of 604, and the Sterling has 120 teeth so the formula becomes:

Constant = 604 x 120 / 8000

So the constant becomes 9.06, and you program that into the VSS. But, the tailhousing of a BW1356 only has 6 teeth. So the same formula would net you a Constant of 0.453. Out of range of what the 92+ PSOM will accept. There are companies that have relocated the VSS to a flange on the tcase output, such as this one:

BW1356 VSS Relocation Kit - Solo Motorsports

The Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Relocation Kit is designed for Ford Broncos with E4OD transmissions paired with the BW1356 transfer case.

solomotorsports.com

The formula changes a little because now your ring & pinion ratio comes into play, but this solves the problem of having an out-of-range value for the PSOM.


If youre not planning on using a PSOM, then you have to use a 89-91 ECU.

 

[CDA 455 II]

Are you rebuilding the E4OD yourself, or having a shop do it?

I had a tranny shop rebuild mine to Power Stroke specs.
Meaning; my '94 Bronco factory E4OD was rebuilt to handle 450+ft/lbs of torque.

 

[reptillikus]

So they changed all the drums? Because the 300/302 got 3 clutch drums, the 351/460 got 4 clutch drums and the 7.3 got 5 clutch drums. Theres other upgrades you can do as well, such as upgrading to the stainless planetaries that the 4R100 used. I dont consider my 7.3 to be a powerhouse (altho it is probably in the 600ft lb range), and after being rebuilt the E4OD couldnt care less. Theres lot of upgrades you can do, and when built properly, it will easily handle 1000 ft lbs.

 

[Provience]

i know on the 92+ the speed signal goes to the VSS where its converted to a digital signal for the PCM. But on the 89-91 there is no VSS so the PCM must do the conversion. So 92+ since the PSOM does the conversion, you have to program a 'constant' into the PSOM itself. Its based off of tire RPM x tone ring teeth # divided by 8000. So:

Constant = Tire Revs per Mile x Tone Ring Teeth / 8000

So for example, my 96 F250. 35" tire with a Sterling 10.25 rear axle. 35s have on average an RPM of 604, and the Sterling has 120 teeth so the formula becomes:

Constant = 604 x 120 / 8000

So the constant becomes 9.06, and you program that into the VSS. But, the tailhousing of a BW1356 only has 6 teeth. So the same formula would net you a Constant of 0.453. Out of range of what the 92+ PSOM will accept. There are companies that have relocated the VSS to a flange on the tcase output, such as this one:

BW1356 VSS Relocation Kit - Solo Motorsports

The Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Relocation Kit is designed for Ford Broncos with E4OD transmissions paired with the BW1356 transfer case.

solomotorsports.com

The formula changes a little because now your ring & pinion ratio comes into play, but this solves the problem of having an out-of-range value for the PSOM.


If youre not planning on using a PSOM, then you have to use a 89-91 ECU.

Awesome, 89-91 will remain the goal then

 

[Provience]

Are you rebuilding the E4OD yourself, or having a shop do it?

I had a tranny shop rebuild mine to Power Stroke specs.
Meaning; my '94 Bronco factory E4OD was rebuilt to handle 450+ft/lbs of torque.

I'll probably do it myself, planning on just soft parts, but figure we'll know everything once it is opened up and apart

 

[Provience]

it's interesting that the EEC power relay is hot at all times to the ECM and the only thing controlled with the relay/switch is the power to the transmission whateva. PCM PINOUT AND SPEEDOMETER - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

pinout for a 1990 f150 PCM and a list of PCM''s from car-part.com for a 1991 F150. These are going to, likely, be far easier to find than the the standalone IDI or even the 460 ones. As far as the transmission is concerned, as long as it is speed density and with E4OD, that's all i'm interested in. F150s and vans should be more common to find.

 

[Provience]

alright, well this morning did some more digging into reptillikus post above about setting up a PSOM. I think i'll be alright trying to find a 1989-1991 ECM, however, if i manage to find somebody parting out a 92-96 in their yard and can get everything for ~$100, it'd be worth messing with.



adding a youtube video on the reset procedure, with the important note that the 8.8 tone ring uses 108 tooth to go along with the 10.25 using 120 tooth. Value range is 100-999. [represents a 1.00 to 9.99 math ratio acceptable result for tire rev per mile x tone ring divided by 8000]

Looks like the VSS relocation kit uses ~30 slugs. add in the rear end ratio of 3.0-5.3 and it puts you reasonably close to the factory number. 30*3=90 & 30*5.3=159

Firestone Transforce HT 9.5R16.5 just as an example, 9.5r16.5 runs 682 rev per mile. with a 30 tone ring and a 3.5 rear gear ratio, it'd put me at 8.95 result, which is within the range of acceptable for the computer.

ebay wants $60-150 for a used PSOM. If going all new parts, it would be pretty easy to outpace the cost of the US Shift quick 2/4

looking on car-part, the F150 psom is common at $35 and the f350 is common at $100, no difference between any of these from a swap standpoint. biggest hangup is that it would be another thing that would need to be hidden out of the way.

 

[WaterH]

I did quite a bit of research on these trannies awhile back. If your just trying to get OD, you might consider a AOD tranny. Both the AOD and the E40D were known to be poor transmissions stock. But if you or someone else rebuilds them, they can be built / upgraded to be very good units. The E40D is more expensive to build, but can handle diesel torque at low rpms. If you are not installing a diesel, I would go AOD. It has no electronics and needs vacuum.

 

[Provience]

I did quite a bit of research on these trannies awhile back. If your just trying to get OD, you might consider a AOD tranny. Both the AOD and the E40D were known to be poor transmissions stock. But if you or someone else rebuilds them, they can be built / upgraded to be very good units. The E40D is more expensive to build, but can handle diesel torque at low rpms. If you are not installing a diesel, I would go AOD. It has no electronics and needs vacuum.

I had a similar thought about the AOD and was heavily advised against it. Looking at the application for the light duty vans/pickups and cars makes me tend to agree with that. Sure, it would be cheap and easy, however 1 extra rebuild and it suddenly wouldn't be worth it, plus that would mean i'd be sitting somewhere with the trailer hooked up and family in tow. Things never break when it would be convenient.

For some reason the E4OD doesn't have a good reputation. I'm not entirely sure why, this is what is in my motorhome. It's lived it's whole life with no maintenance (probably), getting manually shifted at times, or not depending on who is driving, and is two to three times as heavy as my truck at a minimum.

even if the E4OD is poor compared to the reputation of the C6, it's got enough use in heavy applications that i'm not worried about it for what I do. Unless I get a new trailer, i'm going to stay maxed out about 15k lbs gross combined weight and "eventually" i might be able to make 400 ft lbs of torques out of my motor, but not anytime soon.

and yet, the motorhome would be cheaper fuel wise for me to commute in I REALLY want a 6r80 (well, 6r140 but US Shift doesn't make a controller for it) in the motorhome as it would dramatically help with towing due to the first gear reduction and the different split between 3/4

 

[TrikeKid]

I think the E4OD was let down by shitty factory cooling and shitty factory tuning. They tried real hard to make them just glide between gears and any time you're doing that, the clutches are slipping and making heat that you then don't get rid of with an undersized cooler and lines. Upgraded cooling and more line pressure and they seem to live happy lives.

Grossing 15k I wouldn't look to an AOD for your application. A built one MIGHT live but you're looking at a C4 based transmission vs a C6 based E4OD.

 

[Provience]

and, I bought a E4OD over the weekend, so i'm already committed to that side of things. I couldn't even find a 6r80 or zf5 for under $500.

Edit: 1990 or 1991 from behind 7.5L f350

 

[reptillikus]

I think the E4OD got a bad rap. It can absolutely be built to take the abuse, and the diesel crowd has proven it. If you're planning on rebuilding it (which I highly recommend for any E4OD 89-95) then you need this book:

E4OD Update Handbook_Download

ATSG transmission rebuild manuals, downloads, discs, tools, parts, and more direct from the source!

atsgbookstore.com

It goes over all the changes made along the way, and for a 90-91 trans, you're going to want to do a lot of them. Updated retaining rings, the later model pump, shift kit, the pump correction package (which includes a metal anti-drainback valve to replace the stupid plastic one), updating the center support to use a bearing, there's a ton of mods you should do.

Talking about tuning, you're taking about using a truck ECU to control only the transmission. You'll need, off the top of my head, a crank sensor from the dist, a brake signal, TPS, MLPS, and a speed sensor. I don't think you'll need any of the other sensors to get the transmission to shift properly.

 

[Provience]

I think the E4OD got a bad rap. It can absolutely be built to take the abuse, and the diesel crowd has proven it. If you're planning on rebuilding it (which I highly recommend for any E4OD 89-95) then you need this book:

E4OD Update Handbook_Download

ATSG transmission rebuild manuals, downloads, discs, tools, parts, and more direct from the source!

atsgbookstore.com

It goes over all the changes made along the way, and for a 90-91 trans, you're going to want to do a lot of them. Updated retaining rings, the later model pump, shift kit, the pump correction package (which includes a metal anti-drainback valve to replace the stupid plastic one), updating the center support to use a bearing, there's a ton of mods you should do.

Talking about tuning, you're taking about using a truck ECU to control only the transmission. You'll need, off the top of my head, a crank sensor from the dist, a brake signal, TPS, MLPS, and a speed sensor. I don't think you'll need any of the other sensors to get the transmission to shift properly.

good point on the book. Picked up that one and the general ATSG E4OD rebuild book. Going to go through those at some point and see if there is anything pertinent to this thread as well in there. Otherwise, they will get put to use once I start taking this one apart.


Just for some comparisons and keeping things together in my head.

Option 1
Controller: Quick 2 or 4
Harness: comes with controller and whatever ends you need
MLPS must be updated to 1995+ version
Throttle Position Sensor

Option 2
Controller: IDI & E4OD PCM from list via car-part
Harness: factory transmission harness
MLPS should be updated to 1995+
TPS/FIPL
Brake Pedal Switch (NOT BRAKE LIGHT so that hazards/blinkers don't interfere)

Option 3

Controller: 1989-1991 Ford Gas (any F/E-series w/E4OD)
Harness: matching plugs, factory stripped
MLPS can be upgraded to 1995+
TPS
Vehicle Speed Sensor from back of trans/transfer case
Cable driven speedometer
Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor, requires 1 vacuum line
Brake Pedal Switch

possibly optional:
Engine Tachometer signal. Can be highjacked from ignition tach lead output.
Engine Coolant Temperature. Can be tied in with existing dash gauge or new sensor ran
Intake Air Temperature. Can be mounted anywhere underhood or in cab near PCM, above freezing is about all that matters.


Option 4 ;

Controller 1992-1997/8 Ford Gas

same list as above with the addition of:
MUST use 1995+ solenoid pack with 1995+ PCM
dash speedometer, at least the PSOM computer on the back of the dash
rear axle mounted ABS VSS, mounted to fabricated tone ring anywhere, transmission/transfer case output easiest and safest location.
Brake Pedal Switch

edit: forgot to add that a optional/nice to have for any of the ford controller options would be a momentary dash switch and light for O/D off


edit2: this doesn't fit with this post, but it is interesting information

How to Decode Ford Part Numbers - Blue Oval Trucks

Overview: Ford part numbers are divided into two main categories: Engineering Numbers and Service Numbers. The engineers will design a part and assign it an Engineering part number, which is an alphanumeric reference code used by the assembly plants. When … Continued

www.blueovaltrucks.com

Code Chart:​

	1st – Decade Code:		2nd – Year Code:		3rd – Product Line Code:		4th – Design Responsibility Code:
B	1950	0	19X0	9	Aerostar	A	Light Truck Engineering
C	1960	1	19X1	7	Explorer/Ranger	B	Body Engineering
D	1970	2	19X2	0	Continental	C	Chassis Engineering
E	1980	3	19X3	W	Cougar	D	Overseas Product Engineering
F	1990	4	19X4	U	Econoline	E	Engine Engineering, Engine Product and Manufacturing Engineering
		5	19X5	C	Escort	F	Electronics Division, Product Engineering Offc.
		6	19X6	B	Festiva	G	Electronics Division, Arbor Plant
		7	19X7	A	Crown Victoria	H	Climate Control Division, Product Engineering Offc.
		8	19X8	T	Lt. Truck/Bronco	J	Ford Customer Svc. Division Parts and Accessories Engineering Offc.
				V	Lincoln	K	Import Component Engineering, Body Engineering
				L	Mark VIII	L	Ford Customer Svc. Division Power Products/Ford Cust. Svc. Engineering
				H	Medium Truck	M	Performance Operations, Special Vehicle Operations
				J	Power Products	P	Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Automatic Transmissions)
				M	Grand Marquis	R	Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Manual Transmissions)
				P	Motorcraft Brand	S	Light/Heavy Truck Engineering, Truck Special Order Department
				Z	Mustang	T	Heavy Truck Engineering
				2	Probe	U	Electrical and Fuel Handling Division, Product Energy Office
				4	Sable	V	Domestic Special Order Engineering Section, Car Special Order and Special Vehicle Engineering
				D	Taurus	W	Transmission and Axle Product and Manufacturing Engineering (Axle and Driveline)
				F	Outside Sales	X	Plastic and Trim Products Division
				3	Tempo/Contour/Mystique	Y	Ford Customer Service Division (Lincoln and Mercury), Product Analysis and Publications
				R	#1	Z	Ford Customer Service Division (Ford), Product Analysis and Publications
				S	Thunderbird	8	Electric Vehicle Engineering
				6	Topaz	5	Ford PN96/UN98 Platform Engineering
				K	Tracer
				X	Villager
				8	Windstar
				Y	Electric Vehicle
				Q	DEW98 Platform
				1	F350/Excursion

 

[Provience]

Going to add this into here as well, it is the 1992+ F series wiring diagram for E4OD transmission and 7.3L IDI.

sensors it seems concerned with:

Engine RPM sensor
Stop Light Switch
PSOM
4x4 Hi/Lo
Overdrive Cancel
MLPS
Fuel Injection Pump Lever (TPS if used with gas engine)
Barometric pressure (MAP sensor)
Self Test output, probably handy to have just because
and all the stuff from the trans solenoid plugs


edit: for the overdrive cancel switch and light...use a momentary switch with the output to the PCM and wire the other leg to BATT+ keyed from the fuse box. For the O/D Cancel Light, wire one side to the same BATT+ keyed from the fuse box wire as the momentary button, and the other end to the PCM.


edit again:

This is a low quality image of the wiring for the O/D momentary switch. This gives the single source 12v in from fuse panel to the ECM. Once the ECM sees the momentary signal, it switches the ground for the light bulb. These don't need to be on the same 12v source. In my head, it makes the most sense to replace my "Seat Belt" warning light in the dash with "O/D OFF" and have the light up there, with the button in some other easily accessible location.

 

[reptillikus]

Ooh I forgot about 4hi/lo and OD cancel, good call.

I highly recommend updating to the newer MLPS, It uses a better seal to keep moisture out of the connector. No wire cutting required, you simply take the plug apart and put the pins in the new one.

 

[Tiha]

I think the E4OD got a bad rap. It can absolutely be built to take the abuse, and the diesel crowd has proven it. If you're planning on rebuilding it (which I highly recommend for any E4OD 89-95) then you need this book:

Agree completely. It is a great trans. Pretty simple really. Do the upgrades and never worry about it again.

I have seen some take a lot of abuse behind diesel and the gas engines don't really work them hard enough to wear them out.

 

[Projectjunkie]

It'd be a good time to start the 4wd swap, just saying

 

[Provience]

no real updates, spending some money on ebay. Went ahead and ordered a F0TF-BPA pcm, 1990 5.8L E4OD federal spec.

going to see about going to the junk yard and see if i can come up with a harness.

and found this chart over on fordtrucks forum. Cheaper and easier than getting an IAT is to run a 2-3k ohm resistor as a dummy load instead. Even if it doesn't matter, worth a couple bucks just to make sure

edit: might not have to do anything for the torque converter

C6 for 400 uses 1.375 pilot and 4 studs on 11.375 circle 3/8"x24 threads for studs
E4OD for 460 uses 1.375 pilot and 4 studs on 11.375 circle.

Will need to get it all apart and next to each other to see what the starter/snout/depth differences will be

Ford C6 Torque Converter (1971 - 1993)

Information for the Ford C6 transmission torque converter. We are the USA’s largest torque converter supplier!

gopnh.com

Torque Converters for Ford E4OD (C6) Transmission

gopnh.com