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Dust Buggy

The reason I have been AWOL is I started a new job within the water realm. Fertigation, which is the application of fertilizer into irrigation systems.
Should have been doing this along time ago but glad I am in it now. Still in the wild west/pioneering stages of the industry so it a good time to get into it. Lots of people who have no idea what they are doing. Those that think they know, don't know what they they don't know, but I am starting to know what I don't know if you know what I mean. Super corrosive materials which destroy everything they touch and can melt your face off before you can blink. Odd thing is everything I have been doing prior to this field has directly prepared me for success. Have a couple prototypes that are already sold and another unit for a traveling circus to show what fertigation is all about.

Anyway enough about work and what pays the bills, lets see what I have been working on the last 6 months. Sadly I have only logged about 3 days in the las six months.
Triple sticks and the 4L80 shifter are in.
Rear bench is in and fits like a glove.
I also managed to cut out 100+ tube wrapper for the upper cage assembly so when the weather is nice an time permits which wont be till KOH is over, I will start cutting and notching tube to complete the upper chassis.

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Yes, your work always looks so clean and orderly.

Sounds like a good business to get in to. I’ll bet you go far. That will be good for your future builds. Talent like yours and unlimited finances. Woohoo.

Notice, I said ”builds” with an S. They need to be documented here. Lol.
 
Sorry your day job is interfering with the rest of us seeing this project to completion.
:smokin:

I see what I think are similar ag fertilizer systems here in AZ. A small trailer tank of fertilizer metered into a irrigation canal when it is running. Fertizona is the supplier I believe. Those humans have infested almost all the farm field now so funny to see fertilizer system at a busy 7 lane intersection.
 
Ordered a TK1 Racing sway bar kit.
36” OAL
1.25 OD medium rate
8” single shear arms
Mounting on the rear trailing arms/links
Looks like a number of others have had success mounting on the links.
Really doesn’t matter the arm length as the trailing arms determine the rate of twist/rotation that the bar sees.
The short 8” arms start just after the upper link pivot point at the chassis and end just in front of the coilovers. Even if they were 24” long they would still flex parallel with the lower links.
The benefit is the bar and arms are protected by the chassis and links. Compared to a rear bumper mounted sway bar which gets the corners of the arms dragged through the rocks.
The downside is the sway bar sees the leverage of the trailing arm which equals about to a 36” sway bar arm. So a bigger and stiffer bar is needed since the bar rotation degrees is not as great as a typical 16-18” arm setup. I might have gone a little light on the Ultra4 bar size at 1.25” vs a desert bar at 1.5” but I don’t think I’m going to be at the speeds to warrant the firmer rate control vs. having more flex in the rocks.
I could probably figure out a front sway bar on the links but that seemed excessive at the time and maybe a future modification if needed.
 
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HYDRODYNAMIC said:
The downside is the sway bar sees the leverage of the trailing arm which equals about to a 36” sway bar arm. So a bigger and stiffer bar is needed since the bar rotation degrees is not as great as a typical 16-18” arm setup. I might have gone a little light on the Ultra4 bar size at 1.25” vs a desert bar at 1.5” but I don’t think I’m going to be at the speeds to warrant the firmer rate control vs. having more flex in the rocks.
I could probably figure out a front sway bar on the links but that seemed excessive at the time and maybe a future modification if needed.
Click to expand...
I have a sway bar installed exactly like you want to. 32" long.
1.25" was too big. I ended up turning it down.

YMMV.
 
Bebop said:
I have a sway bar installed exactly like you want to. 32" long.
1.25" was too big. I ended up turning it down.

YMMV.
Click to expand...
I though your bar was 1.25" forgot you turned it down.
Noticed that Loren Healy? was doing the same thing on rear links with the new Spidertrax bar and arms, that bar was turned down from maybe 1.25" to maybe 1". Figured he had front and rear bars tough.
Well at least I feel better about not having enough diameter, I can always turn the bar down like you did. I would assume most bars are similar in rate but TK1 has a street only rate for the 1.25" so not sure what that means. Maybe there is more than just the diameter to the rate.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Well at least I feel better about not having enough diameter, I can always turn the bar down like you did.
Click to expand...
That was my thought process as well. In the end I ended up very close to a big antirock.
If I had to redo it, I'd put 2 antirocks (ft and rr) for the same amount of money the rear Branik bar and arms cost me.

HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Maybe there is more than just the diameter to the rate.
Click to expand...
Bar length plays a role too.
 
Bar length, diameter and arm length are all almost of equal importance as to the final rate of the setup.

Here's a nice chart for 36" bars that might help give you an idea of the actual rate.

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This is from Speedway Engineering.

Sway Bar Rate Charts

1speedway.com 1speedway.com
 
Talked to Tony from TK1 Racing for a little bit. Found out that the Ultra4 bar is 1.25” at the splines and turned down to 1” across the length. So it is a lighter rate similar to what others are running.
Also found out there is more magic than the visual bar length, OD, ID, and arm length. Heat treat is specific for off road bars due to the amount of flex they have vs an on road bar. The heat treat for a long thin on road bar stiff enough to work with minimal wheel travel would snap in off road use. The heat treat for a much thicker off road bar would still flex or rotate too much for on road use. So heat treat can effect the performance of two physically identical bars. Most off road bars should all have the same range of heat treat for max flex rotation. If you get a bar from someone who also does other motor sports, make sure you get the correct heat treat.
 
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The bars we use are usually quite a bit longer than road bars. Couple that with the short arms they run and the rate of twist per inch is pretty similar between the 2.

Sway bars are one of the most overused and abused pieces in a desert vehicle. I can't count how many vehicles I have put much lighter bars on or taken them off completely making them faster and more comfortable. Spring rate and maybe a small front bar are key.
 
I got a new computer as my old one was limping along. It was vintage maybe 8 to 9 years old. Needed it to run Inventor for personal and for work. It was a Costco special i5 infinity core, SSD, with built in garbage graphics card. After crashing every time I tried to rotate the assembly I figured it was time to get a certified graphics card. For any of you who know as much as I knew, graphics cards come in two versions, professional and gaming. I'm not a gamer at all. Gamers want fast and accuracy is last. Professional is reliability/accuracy first and fast last. I needed a professional card to stop the crashing. Got an Invidia Quadro something on the Autodesk approved list. Installed it on my Costco Dell special of the week and this thing runs like a striped ass ape. Almost too fast, as I'm used to the lag. No crashes so far. It will get me through the build and at least another 5 years before it is outdated again.
So here is where the buggy sits today in the electric realm. Its physically really close to the model but at a stand still at the same time. I have figured out over the years that not much happens during the holidays and I get back to it after KOH when the weather improves.

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Cool. You probably already said, but are all your links the same length?

edit, disregard, I forgot you had coil overs to your trail arms. (Can’t swap)
 
It seems you are pretty good with computers. If so, you may already know this but Windows key & G will pull up how much of your CPU/GPU/RAM are being used. you can pin in and move it around the screen.

For example this is my work comptuer and you can clearly see when I rotate a part it hits my GPU pretty hard. If your costco PC is that old, a ram and SSD upgrade could make the thing fly.



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How to display CPU, GPU and RAM usage natively on Windows 11

If you like to keep a close eye on the CPU, GPU and RAM usage of devices running Windows 11, you may find the following native option useful. Keeping an eye on the performance of the device can be useful, for instance when you are troubleshooting issues that you are experiencing. Windows includes...
nsaneforums.com nsaneforums.com
 
NEVERLIFT said:
It seems you are pretty good with computers. If so, you may already know this but Windows key & G will pull up how much of your CPU/GPU/RAM are being used. you can pin in and move it around the screen.

For example this is my work comptuer and you can clearly see when I rotate a part it hits my GPU pretty hard. If your costco PC is that old, a ram and SSD upgrade could make the thing fly.



Untitled.jpg


How to display CPU, GPU and RAM usage natively on Windows 11

If you like to keep a close eye on the CPU, GPU and RAM usage of devices running Windows 11, you may find the following native option useful. Keeping an eye on the performance of the device can be useful, for instance when you are troubleshooting issues that you are experiencing. Windows includes...
nsaneforums.com nsaneforums.com
Click to expand...
Interesting! I'm not a computer wiz in the slightest. Just use the programs. Cool WINDOW G function.
CPU hit a max of 14%
GPU was 100% but it was still more than clear and fast enough to spin the part, took longer for my brain to process. I have a 3D Connection mouse, the small one, so its super easy to spin the parts around and zoom in and out. If you don't have one, get one, it makes life so much easier and faster. I had the larger one with buttons in the past and prefer the smaller one that looks like a door knob, simpler and more ergonomic for me.
VRAM was around 40%
RAM was around 60%
 
Gave a closer look to the engine skid and wondered if more was better.
I look at the Campbell cars and see that they are like toboggans in the rocks, sliding off of everything as the bottoms are smooth and continuous
In the first picture you will see the gap between the skid and the front axle. The skid ends where the engine mount tube drops straight down. I figured it was the perfect spot for a sharp pointed boulder to wedge in and anchor onto. Worst case a tree stump slides off the axle tube and punches the crank pulley and all accessories are lost.
Second and third picture is of the extended skid that goes close to the axle to keep out rocks and provide a smoother transition from the axle to the skid and belly. The upper links do clear the skid by around 2" as the skid tapers in past the engine mount uprights.
I also changed the angle of the engine mount uprights to be 90 degrees from the skid which is also parallel with the chassis tubes so life would be easy for notching and welding. Since the 3D constraints and adaptivity would be out of control and prone to crashing or FUBAR, I simply used a square edge of a paper laid on the screen and adjusted the fixed dimension lengths until the tubes were square. My notcher and welder will not know the difference between 89.73 and 90 degrees. Makes for a solid and easy to modify 3D model down the road.
Big picture, does anyone think I should keep that gap open?





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I’m no expert on rock crawling, but your logic seems sound and I can’t see any reason not to extend the skid. Will it make servicing the engine harder?
 
I always try to think of every possible fucked up scenario when building stuff. 99% chance you'll never touch that piece, but I'd just do it.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Big picture, does anyone think I should keep that gap open?
Click to expand...
2 things
  • i flipped over from SW to check your thread and was trying to rotates your pictures for a better look, it doesnt work
  • i dont like the second option because that duck bill is 12" or so and its asking to bend at the supports
  • if you are looking to extend it make sure it doesnt hang below the axle at full bump. check slawsons, they are kicked up to push the rock down under.
 
mobil1syn said:
2 things
  • i flipped over from SW to check your thread and was trying to rotates your pictures for a better look, it doesnt work
  • i dont like the second option because that duck bill is 12" or so and its asking to bend at the supports
  • if you are looking to extend it make sure it doesnt hang below the axle at full bump. check slawsons, they are kicked up to push the rock down under.
Click to expand...
Looks like the Bomber version is a little longer than mine but includes some gusset tubes.
My version is above the tube at full bump similar to the Bomber version.
I’ll take a look at adding some gusset tubes.
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By "duck bill" you guys are talking about the tube under the crank pulley, right?
 
arse_sidewards said:
By "duck bill" you guys are talking about the tube under the crank pulley, right?
Click to expand...
Duck bill is probably the most traditional term. Rounded end looks like a flat biller hat. Both front and rear engine buggy’s use them.
I went with a trapezoid shape that parallels with the upper links so it can extend out further to the crank. Keeping with the mitered joint straight tube design.
 
As time passes I forget decisions made and reasoning for what I am doing.
So before I forget.

While at KOH I talked with a Willwood rep in depth about buggy brakes.
Many super duty swaps result in larger front caliper piston area than rear.
Some school of thought is you want more breaking in the front than rear so the rear doesn’t lock up and spin around.
Some will put a smaller master cylinder on the front than the rear when running equal calipers front and rear to create higher pressure on the front.

Miller was breaking drivetrain parts at an unreasonable rate.
Analysis was when locked in four wheel all torque was available to all wheels. Braking torque was not equal. The front brakes would brake through the drivetrain to the rear wheels which were underbraked resulting in the drivetrain loading with braking force.
Front and rear rotors and master cylinders were matched and the drivetrain loading was reduced to reasonable levels.
I already switched the front F550 calipers and rotors to F250 rear calipers and rotors which have nearly identical displacement.
I already have a 3/4” and 7/8” master cylinder. But will get another 3/4” or 7/8” so the front and rear are matched.
 
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Rear sway bar is mounted.
Upon testing I found out how much force short arms create on the rod ends and tabs. I originally designed the link attachment with two tabs in double shear. Once I saw how small and 1/8" thin the supplied single shear tabs were, I thought maybe I would be fine with some 1/4" laser cut tabs in single shear. The supplied rod ends had studs so single shear was the only way to use them.
I flexed out the rear suspension until the sway bar had full support of the axle load. Went to take some cool flex shots and noticed the tabs were laid over. #FAIL The overhung load from the stud rod end was too much. With longer arms in 16" range the forces would be much lower, but with the 8" short arms the force was too high.
Needless to say, I'm going to double shear the lower link attachment and switch to a through bore rod end.
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