Do New Ford Trucks Suck, or are My Expectations Too High?

[arse_sidewards]

Not sure why I respond to a guy who's probably never towed over 10k lbs in actual mountains, but here we are

Not sure why I even bothered to respond to a guy who's from California and has clearly taken the whole "other people's money isn't real" indoctrination thing to heart.

You're not doing that in the mountains with an older truck without hurting something. Flats and hills, sure.

People did exactly that kind of shit back in the day though. Do you realy think you're the first carpetbagger to try and tow something in Idaho? They just did it at 15mph with the flashers on in 1st/2nd gear at 50-80% throttle. Same way you'd drive moving stupid shit on your own property. It doesn't matter if the grade is 2mi long or 20. A truck will run all day like that.

Parts break on the road because people drive around with A/C on and windows up in a truck with 6" of sound deadening and don't have a prayer of hearing that pinion U joint before it's beating up the bottom of the truck.

Smoked brakes and trans, or clutch is pretty likely If towing heavy a lot.

Brakes are a wear item as are clutch discs, and the latter isn't really a big deal when it costs less than a brake job on a modern car.

I don't think it's fair to compare to 3/4spd autos back when everyone who towed heavy got the 4spd manual.

it was just the first DI diesel to be put in a light truck and compared to a smog laden small block it was awesome. But they had plenty of issues like the kdp, shit transmissions, general dodge falling apart.

I agree that the older diesels weren't that great and their reputation has a lot to do with dumbass fanboys

Now people glorified them so much, they've gone absolutely bonkers on value.

Dumbass fanboy problems.

You can still find Fords and Chevys with the gas engines for fairly reasonable prices if you don't mind the truck being in somewhat rough cosmetic shape. The gas 2nd gen Dodges are mostly gone. First gen Dodges and squarebodies are $$ because people like to restore and engine swap them.

 

[arse_sidewards]

A lot of gas...

To the point where suddenly a reman 3v 5.4 longblock every 200k or front end kit every 80k doesn't sound so bad.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Not sure why I even bothered to respond to a guy who's from California and has clearly taken the whole "other people's money isn't real" indoctrination thing to heart.

I don't know why you always think I'm fucking rich. I grew up Chevy online 6s and 350s. They got the job done, but would definitely overheat with any real wieght behind them.

People did exactly that kind of shit back in the day though. Do you realy think you're the first carpetbagger to try and tow something in Idaho? They just did it at 15mph with the flashers on in 1st/2nd gear at 50-80% throttle. Same way you'd drive moving stupid shit on your own property. It doesn't matter if the grade is 2mi long or 20. A truck will run all day like that.

I'm talking real mounts, like the trip to Tahoe. Nobody grossed 35k lbs with a pickup all day every day. They'd use a real truck.

No they won't, they'll overheat or blow the trans.

Parts break on the road because people drive around with A/C on and windows up in a truck with 6" of sound deadening and don't have a prayer of hearing that pinion U joint before it's beating up the bottom of the truck.


Brakes are a wear item as are clutch discs, and the latter isn't really a big deal when it costs less than a brake job on a modern car.

I don't think it's fair to compare to 3/4spd autos back when everyone who towed heavy got the 4spd manual.


I agree that the older diesels weren't that great and their reputation has a lot to do with dumbass fanboys

Dumbass fanboy problems.

You can still find Fords and Chevys with the gas engines for fairly reasonable prices if you don't mind the truck being in somewhat rough cosmetic shape. The gas 2nd gen Dodges are mostly gone. First gen Dodges and squarebodies are $$ because people like to restore and engine swap them.

 

[RPS1030]

I'm talking real mounts, like the trip to Tahoe. Nobody grossed 35k lbs with a pickup all day every day. They'd use a real truck.

No they won't, they'll overheat or blow the trans.

4 have burned to the ground trying to get to Brian Head this summer already. But damned if you don’t since 2 real trucks have gotten stuck in the switchbacks in the same timeframe.

 

[Levigarrett76]

If it makes you feel any better...

When people ask me about trucks/brands/problems to try and pick the best one my response is always I'd pick the one that doesn't have big fancy dealership repair facilities . They usually act confused and say they all do, and I say yep

I am service tech for the premier heavy equipment manufacturer in the world and we see a lot of broke shit.
Years ago I was a shop tech specializing in skid steers, I had 15-20 in my bay at all times, to the point I was thinking we had a bunch of junk...

I caught the #1 skid steer salesman in the world one day to question him if are stuff was not very good.
He responds without hesitation when you sell as many machines as we do you it looks like a lot of failures but rest assured our failure rate is right inline with the industry and we have 55% market share so you are gonna see a lot of broke shit.

Lastly have you thought about a Ford ESP?
IMO they are actually fairly affordable when bought outside the dealer.

Ford Extended Warranty - Ford Protect

Buy Ford Extended Warranty at wholesale pricing. Pay just over dealer cost and receive genuine Ford Parts and service Coverage.

www.grangerfordextendedwarranty.com

Ford Protect Sales - Geniune Ford ESP extended warranty

Ford Protect - Ford extended warranty for your Ford, Lincoln vehicle. Instant online quotes.

www.floodfordesp.com

Im planning on buying one from granger, is it critical to buy before your powertrain warranty runs out? Or does it even matter? I've been trying to find the answer to this question.

Found these in regads to TSB's

 

[CarterKraft]

Im planning on buying one from granger, is it critical to buy before your powertrain warranty runs out? Or does it even matter? I've been trying to find the answer to this question.

Found these in regads to TSB's

I tried to buy one for my moms explorer and at 41k miles on a 2019 it was outside of the window to sell one...
So my suggestion is don't wait.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I don't know why you always think I'm fucking rich. ..

It's not that you're rich. It's that you constantly have less than zero regard for other people's money. For someone who supposedly can fabricate shit your solution to everything is bling bolt-togther 9s. You have zero respect for how much that new truck costs your boss let alone maintenance and insurance. You should be happy he's not sticking you in a NPR with a flatbed. The list goes on.

I'm talking real mounts, like the trip to Tahoe. Nobody grossed 35k lbs with a pickup all day every day. They'd use a real truck.

"my old truck couldn't tow a 10k trailer up a mountain"

"nobody towed 20k"

"people didn't gross 35k daily"

Funny how the goal posts move.

No they won't, they'll overheat or blow the trans.

Maybe your Toyota will.

Any vehicle, even cars, should be able to do 1st/2nd at part throttle for dozens of minutes to hours (though in a car you might be using even less throttle because less cooling). Running at say 70% and 3000rpm just isn't that taxing. Heck, any old under-powered truck towing a camper or other parachute of a load on the flat is at 100% throttle and 2-3k all the time albeit in a different gear but if you have the airflow to cool the thing it doesn't really matter. Basically if you're at peak torque instead of peak HP you'll probably be fine.

 

[Levigarrett76]

I tried to buy one for my moms explorer and at 41k miles on a 2019 it was outside of the window to sell one...
So my suggestion is don't wait.

Shit, I didnt realize the esp warranty starts from vehicle purchase date and 0 miles? Thanks for pointing out
By the time the 5/60k powertrain runs out that 75k/5 year plan for $2400 worthless. Fuck that noise

If there was something to extend the powertrain warranty to 10 yr / 150k Id bite...

 

[YotaAtieToo]

It's not that you're rich. It's that you constantly have less than zero regard for other people's money. For someone who supposedly can fabricate shit your solution to everything is bling bolt-togther 9s. You have zero respect for how much that new truck costs your boss let alone maintenance and insurance. You should be happy he's not sticking you in a NPR with a flatbed. The list goes on.

Just because you think everyone wants cobbled together garbage.

Most people have money money than skill these days. So it's easier to swipe the card than fight building something.

I also never said anyone needed to go buy a new truck, just playing devils advocate on why theyre good in some ways.

"my old truck couldn't tow a 10k trailer up a mountain"

"nobody towed 20k"

"people didn't gross 35k daily"

Funny how the goal posts move.

Never moved, I made all those points in the first post.

Maybe your Toyota will.

Any vehicle, even cars, should be able to do 1st/2nd at part throttle for dozens of minutes to hours (though in a car you might be using even less throttle because less cooling). Running at say 70% and 3000rpm just isn't that taxing. Heck, any old under-powered truck towing a camper or other parachute of a load on the flat is at 100% throttle and 2-3k all the time albeit in a different gear but if you have the airflow to cool the thing it doesn't really matter. Basically if you're at peak torque instead of peak HP you'll probably be fine.

Because you've never towed up real mountains. A carb small block will not pull 10k lbs up from Sacramento to Tahoe in 100* heat without stopping. It just won't. I've seen them on the side of road dozens of times with the hood popped and less wieght behind them.

Those vehicles you mentioned often would over heat in the mountains with no wieght behind them.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Who the fuck wants to spend a few years building "the ultimate truck" just so they can drag their toys around on vacation or tow something occasionally? I have the money and time to do it and I still wouldn't bother. I enjoy building fun stuff not daily drivers, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Specs on the trailer? What happened to the paint on the front?

Damn blue truck looks nice

 

[06h3]

I said AC and cooling systems have come a long way and I forgot to add Transmissions have come a long way too. When they don't work they are a disaster but when they work they are amazing at keeping you in the powerband. The modern machine is quite impressive.

FWIW, you can tow 30k gross up the 50 to Tahoe in a 7.3. It is slow. like 30 mph slow. If I did it daily it wouldn't be the solution but I have done it 2 times in 3 years. My 7.3 isnt stock but I feel it was less of an available power issue and more of where I was at in the RPM band, if I shift rpms are too low, EGTs go up. Its like a 950 rpm drop between gears. a 6-8-10 speed may have helped that. or a VGT....I have done any speed I want at 20k up i50 to tahoe. Anyways, I feel a good chunk of people think IT CAN NOT be done now that there are newer trucks. It can be done....just slower and more miserably.

A guy in Iowa just hauled 36k gross with his 7.3. Sure, much more flat and the guy who used his 7.3 for hotshot was 30-38k daily on the east coast.

So just because there's a better way doesn't mean it cant be done now. It can....Just because planes fly doesnt mean that I CAN NOT get from Missouri to CA via horse and buggy. I still can and thousands of people did it for many years.

Dont know who said it but 34k in 1997 is 65k today in 2024 according to an inflation calculator. Trucks are definitely more then 65k

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Your t4 turbo is an enormous difference in the 7.3.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Because you've never towed up real mountains.

I can drag BDLs up and down the Appalachians all day long but unless I literally track down an identical trailer and use it to steal your piece of shit skid steer tow it from Sac to Tahoe you'll find some reason the comparison is invalid. Even then you'll probably bitch at me about ambient temperature and relative humidity.

Secondly, there's plenty of grades in the east (and all over the country) that exceed the 5% on I80 (which was actually a surprisingly hard grade to find because Google keeps trying to show you "top 10" type lists that it doesn't make"). They just do it for half a dozen miles instead of tens but after the first couple it's really a distinction without a difference, Shit can handle a grade that takes 15min to climb or descend at 10/15/20mph it can handle one that takes 30min or hours, perhaps at the cost of an extra degree of coolant temp or dropping a mile per hour or two to mitigate that temp. Like it's really not rocket science to not overheat a truck. There's no reason for you to be projecting the inability to do that on everyone else.

A carb small block with a th350

Gotta love how we went from comparing 1-tons to TH350 equipped trucks when I harped on the 4spd manuals.

I'll be the first to admit that the TH400/C6 class of 3 and 4spd autos won't live a particularly long life BDLing but they won't live a short one either. Plenty of 3500HD and F-superduty type trucks got perfectly good lives out of them. Pretty sure AKnate constantly complains that his new truck doesn't feel as good at 20k as his F-Superduty did. While he's not pulling grades life in Alaska ain't great for shit.

will not pull 10k lbs up from Sacramento to Tahoe in 100* heat without stopping. It just won't. I've seen them on the side of road dozens of times with the hood popped and less wieght behind them.

You're delusional if you don't think that just about any truck made in the last 40yr can't be run wide open or nearly wide open for hours on end so long as its stock and its cooling system is functional and clean. Maybe you'll have to keep your foot a tad out of it so you're at 85% instead of WOT but that's not a big deal. Yeah, you'll have to back out of it a little further on an old shit pile but whatever.

The difference between old trucks and new trucks is that you can't find a 2010s F350 that has 20+yr of cumulative neglect piled onto it so there's no examples of old shit piles to cherry pick.

Those vehicles you mentioned often would over heat in the mountains with no wieght behind them.

If we're going to cherry pick poorly maintained trucks then the 6.7 is gonna shit out it's CP4 half way up the grade too.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

What planet can any old carb gas engine run wot at 20 mph up a grade in 100* all day?

These rigs will over heat on these grades with no trailer.

 

[Snowy]

Dont know who said it but 34k in 1997 is 65k today in 2024 according to an inflation calculator. Trucks are definitely more then 65k

The LBZ truck we had sticked for $54k in 2005, was not a maxed out truck. LT package only with cloth interior.

The CPI calculator says that is the equivalent to $87k in today's clown world.

Diesel LT's today MSRP for about $72k and have list prices for $68k

 

[YotaAtieToo]

It's funny how people will bitch about $100k truck, but they also won't even consider a normal trim level. You can literally double the price of a truck in options these days.

 

[arse_sidewards]

What planet can any old carb gas engine run wot at 20 mph up a grade in 100* all day?

The cooling systems on old trucks will cool ~150hp all day no problem.

So that means you get too choose between WOT and lugging it 1500-2000rpm in the bottom of whatever gear that is or downshifting a gear or two and using less skinny pedal for the same number of ponies.

These rigs will over heat on these grades with no trailer.

In your cherry picked anecdotal experience. And frankly everyone with a brain knows you don't see all the trucks that don't stop so I'm not sure who you're hoping to fool here.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

My point is that you're wrong. I've driven those rigs and seen them on the side of the road in the mountains dozens and dozens of times.

Not one single person here will agree that you can pull 20k or even 5k up a mountain with those rigs.

 

[Provience]

I know I'm a little soft in the head, but i still can't understand people fascination with A/C in a vehicle

Vans and busses, sure. Trucks? Not worth the hassle. The hassle being pushing a button and a service every decade

 

[Provience]

My point is that you're wrong. I've driven those rigs and seen them on the side of the road in the mountains dozens and dozens of times.

Not one single person here will agree that you can pull 20k or even 5k up a mountain with those rigs.

As the owner of a carb rig, yes it will pull 5k lbs up a mountain in 100* weather at WOT without overheating.

Iron heads and iron block have a different standard for overheating. Cooling system that isn't full of shit helps significantly, but that's just routine maintenance

 

[Provience]

20k lbs I've only done in the mountains with my early 90s EFI and it didn't complain about the heat, but its also got a massive radiator

Edit: not even close to what a truck made this decade would do, but it is doable and yes I generally seek to avoid it when possible

 

[arse_sidewards]

20k lbs I've only done in the mountains with my early 90s EFI and it didn't complain about the heat, but its also got a massive radiator

Edit: not even close to what a truck made this decade would do, but it is doable and yes I generally seek to avoid it when possible

This. I'll do 20k very slowly with the old garbage and very slowly 40k with the new garbage.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Dont know who said it but 34k in 1997 is 65k today in 2024 according to an inflation calculator. Trucks are definitely more then 65k

That was me talking about the window sticker my 97 F250 came with new. Your last sentence is bullshit and the 22 F350 XLT dually 6.7 truck I'm sitting in right now that had a $65k window sticker backs that up.

So your telling me I got a 100X better deal buying the 22 vs what I got buying the 97 seeing as I spent the exact same money on both.

 

[rockdog57]

I like pulling with my 23 duramax. It is just less stressful x1000. Now in a few years I might hate the thing because of the unbelievable complexity that I totally don’t even begin to understand. My 7.3 , yeah it’s got sensors and I had to buy autoenginuity to see what those sensors are reading.


Tic Tic Tic…. Only time will tell.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Here are the window stickers from both my trucks so nobody thinks im bullshitting them......

The 22

The 97....

 

[YotaAtieToo]

As the owner of a carb rig, yes it will pull 5k lbs up a mountain in 100* weather at WOT without overheating.

Iron heads and iron block have a different standard for overheating. Cooling system that isn't full of shit helps significantly, but that's just routine maintenance

5k lbs maybe was being a little exaggerating, I'll admit.

Seeing as how my 7.3 had a hard time with 10k lbs, there is just no way I'll believe an old carb V8 or I6 would do it without issues.

20k lbs I've only done in the mountains with my early 90s EFI and it didn't complain about the heat, but its also got a massive radiator

Edit: not even close to what a truck made this decade would do, but it is doable and yes I generally seek to avoid it when possible

Pulled 20k or grossed 20k?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Did you guys all get the magical 7.3s? Mine has a Banks Stinger kit on it with their prom chip or whatever they used back in 1997 to tune these things and it's pretty fast for a big ass late 90s diesel truck but it's slow as fuck the second you hook a load to it.

I pulled an overloaded 34' 13k GVW 5th wheel camper from Rhode Island to where we live now in Texas with my 7.3 truck and while it made it at no point in that trip was that truck happy and it took 10hrs longer than it should have. Even pulling my old 28' enclosed race trailer with just the SxS and camping gear in it from my house to the old Texplex 60 miles away wasn't fun. It would take forever and a day to get up to a respectable speed with my foot to the floor (60-65) and if you had to slow down even a little bit to let a car merge ect you were back to taking forever to get back up to speed.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Here are the window stickers from both my trucks so nobody thinks im bullshitting them......

The 22

The 97....

What is build date? Shits gone up quite a bit since 21-22

Thank you for sharing the legit stickers

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Did you guys all get the magical 7.3s? Mine has a Banks Stinger kit on it with their prom chip or whatever they used back in 1997 to tune these things and it's pretty fast for a big ass late 90s diesel truck but it's slow as fuck the second you hook a load to it.

I pulled an overloaded 34' 13k GVW 5th wheel camper from Rhode Island to where we live now in Texas with my 7.3 truck and while it made it at no point in that trip was that truck happy and it took 10hrs longer than it should have. Even pulling my old 28' enclosed race trailer with just the SxS and camping gear in it from my house to the old Texplex 60 miles away wasn't fun. It would take forever and a day to get up to a respectable speed with my foot to the floor (60-65) and if you had to slow down even a little bit to let a car merge ect you were back to taking forever to get back up to speed.

No, I'm with you there. Mine was a obs as well, and even with a 5spd it was still a turd with any wieght behind it. I'm sure it could have used some refreshing with the miles it had, but those early 7.3s were just turds. Mine had the ts6 chip, intake, turbo back exhaust and after the Tahoe trip a 6.0 intercooler. The cooler helped a ton on grades, but definitely increased turbo lag.

The superduty 7.3s were definitely an upgrade, bigger injectors, better turbo and factory intercooler. My first work truck was an 03 7.3 and wasn't bad stock except for it had 3.73s and any slight grade would kick you from OD to 3rd and scream.