Cooling Fan Tech

[Bebop]

Thanks. I'm leaning toward this method rather than getting into my ECU.

That doesn't make sense to me.
There is an existing OEM solution that requires 1 added wire and programming vs a non waterproof aftermarket gizmo that requires an external sender and potentially could fail and leave you without engine cooling.

 

[Rockwood]

That doesn't make sense to me.
There is an existing OEM solution that requires 1 added wire and programming vs a non waterproof aftermarket gizmo that requires an external sender and potentially could fail and leave you without engine cooling.

It doesn't need an external sensor, you can just piggyback off of the existing.

OEM is the simplest, but does require you do know how to tune it, or take it to someone who does.

 

[Tcdawg]

That doesn't make sense to me.
There is an existing OEM solution that requires 1 added wire and programming vs a non waterproof aftermarket gizmo that requires an external sender and potentially could fail and leave you without engine cooling.

Not everything makes sense to everyone. Any problem with more than one solution has pro's and con's to both choices..this one is no different.

I haven't decided which way I will go yet.

ECU program:
Pro's - one wire solution, no third-party "part" to deal with, ECU controls the fan
Con's - I'm not a tuner, don't own HP Tuners, would require a friend to do it or pay someone to do it. Can there be a switch to turn the fan on full speed(over ride)if necessary? I don't know, maybe someone does

Exterior Controller:
Pro's - relatively cheap, easy to set up at home, adjustable
Con's - one more part that could fail, might not be robust in the engine bay

 

[CarterKraft]

The instructions say if you want to waterproof it, just program it and seal in the DIP switches.

But yeah, dirty water schmoo might play hell with readings and resulting fan speed.

Good catch I guess I didn't read enough.

I think I'm just gonna mount mine inside, there isn't really a need to have it out there on the core support anyway.

If I run it inside it will make all the wiring easier too because it can just run through the firewall bulkhead.

 

[CarterKraft]

850w Brose (BMW) fan update running from FPM and a Standard Motor products TX3 sensor, 1.5k ohm pull up resistor.


It rocks, I flipped the 7 switch to ON to test full speed (the first time I have actually seen the fan run) I had spilled some water on to the radiator during the flushing process and it blew water out the top of the fan to the rear past the back of the car, the air coming under the car was 10x the previous fan and it was LOUD.

I did the low temp setpoint adjustment, really easy press and hold till light flash then press once at the desired temp then do the same for the high. One thing I didn't realize was you can re-learn these set points at anytime high or low and not in a particular order.

I set 160 low and 190 high and cruising at sub 45 mph speeds it sets rock solid at 170.
I haven't seen it move much over 175, I think there is a 165 thermostat but that's a wild guess.

 

[Bebop]

Can there be a switch to turn the fan on full speed(over ride)if necessary?

Yes, but there is no need for one.

 

[Rockwood]

Good catch I guess I didn't read enough.

I think I'm just gonna mount mine inside, there isn't really a need to have it out there on the core support anyway.

If I run it inside it will make all the wiring easier too because it can just run through the firewall bulkhead.

I was just thinking about this, and what would be cool would be a 3D printed back plate with spots for female spades to be inserted and weather seals. Seems like something AgitatedPancake would be dumb enough motived enough to take on.

 

[CarterKraft]

I was just thinking about this, and what would be cool would be a 3D printed back plate with spots for female spades to be inserted and weather seals. Seems like something AgitatedPancake would be dumb enough motived enough to take on.

It would be easy to mount in a project box and use a bulkhead of your choice to waterproof.

After reading the responses here I'm just going to put mine in the cab, it will make it much easier to tune temps, and see error lamp if a problem arose.

 

[Rockwood]

It would be easy to mount in a project box and use a bulkhead of your choice to waterproof.

After reading the responses here I'm just going to put mine in the cab, it will make it much easier to tune temps, and see error lamp if a problem arose.

Yeah yeah, that'd be a hell of a lot easier...
Mine is in the cab, though not easily visible when driving. Remote LED would be nice.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

I was just thinking about this, and what would be cool would be a 3D printed back plate with spots for female spades to be inserted and weather seals. Seems like something AgitatedPancake would be dumb enough motived enough to take on.

Hey now.....yeah that sounds about right . A good box like that with those fancy bulkhead connectors would be sweet for this kind of application, or the custom electric ebrake controllers from that other thread

 

[Magicpotatoes]

this is more like hack job than "tech".
600W fan from mercedes c class.

then i assumed more blades + more watts = more cooling
so i grafted a BMW 850W fan from a 535i into a mercedes c class shroud.

fish tank thermostat turns on the cheap PWM signal generator which sends signal to the fan. Duty cycle on the BMW fan is reversed, 100Hz frequency.

fans cost me 22 bucks each when the local junkyard does half off sale. plus another maybe 10 dollars for the fish tank thermostat and PWM generator. now i can do long sandy hill climb bouncing on the rev limiter when its 105f+ outside with AC on without overheating, then again i never had any problem with the 600w mercedes fan, and it sounded better too, just a loud whoosh, the BMW 850w fan sounds like a fighter jet taking off.

 

[CarterKraft]

That merc shroud is really perfect for that radiator isn't it? Or did you taper it to fit that core size?

 

[Magicpotatoes]

shroud came that way, only bummer was the mounting tabs on one side lined up with the water outlet and trans cooler line so i had to hang the fan from the top of the radiator

 

[Thatg9659]

There’s a bit of genius in picking a radiator size & shape that fits a cheap junkyard shroud that a good fan can be attached to.

I hope to remember that if I ever order a custom radiator.

 

[Magicpotatoes]

might as well post info of my results
850w bmw fan airflow and power consumption compared to mercedes 600w and volvo/bosch 600w. i only wrote down power draw at full speed cause there's no space on that piece of cardboard. no fancy spreadsheet here

below is the volvo/bosch fan i had in the truck, picture is from the internet since i removed that setup after a few weeks and now the fan is buried under all my junk

and this is the clutch fan i used. yes, its a ford explorer fan but threads right into the s10 blazer water pump, it engages at 200f compared to 206f on the stock s10 clutch fan, at least in my specific setup. and yes, the clutch was locked up when i did the test.

this is the test setup, i know it doesn't look very scientific and cfm numbers should only be used for comparison between these fans on this same vehicle since i don't actually know how to properly measure it but all the fan setups were measured exactly the same way, hood closed, idle raised to 1200rpm, air measuring gizmo placed at the same spot, vehicle same distance away from the closed garage door and all that. for reference, i have a 3 core radiator, condenser, 11"x11"x1.5 inch trans cooler on the left side, 11"x11"x.75" oil cooler on the right side and the winch is sort of tucked under the bumper, right up against the auxillary coolers where the air dam used to be so airflow through all that isn't ideal. i did the measurements after driving around town for at least 20 mins to get underhood temps hot, i figured those are the operating conditions the fans will see and they lose a bit of juice when hot, at least my brushless power tools do. maybe it doesn't matter and i just wasted 80 bucks worth of gas which is more than the fans combined. but i wanted to be consistent, for science!

clip of the bmw 850w fan at full speed. that's the only time it ever ran full speed. 70% is the highest i run it even on 100+ degree days

i turned the fans on at full speed before mounting them in the truck and the volvo fan felt like it moved way more air than the 850w fan, didn't measure cfm cause its pointless without static pressure. i did however measure them with just the 3 core radiator i used for mock up, and iirc the volvo fan still moved more air than the 850w fan by a pretty good margin, cant remember exactly by how much, cant find the piece of cardboard i wrote it on. i guess the blade design of the volvo fan moves a lot of air but decreases with more airflow restriction. i was actually happy with how the volvo fan cooled the truck, i just started looking for different options because i don't like the way it sounds, it makes a high pitched sound, almost like a turbo whistle, annoys everyone inside the truck, and probably anyone within 100 feet of the truck. note the 72amp 13.8v on the 850w fan, that's well above the 850w rating, but if i drop the duty cycle to 95%, power draw drops way down to 48amps, doesn't make sense but this is all beyond my knowledge/skills. just thought i'd share my findings.

 

[Weasel]

nice readings! good data.

 

[Bggrnchvy]

I am still messing with my install, but I have a Camaro fan almost grafted to this Griffin rad.

Perfect width, just tall. So I flipped it upside down, cut off the overhang, made a trim piece to both close the hole and tab onto the upper flange and then riveted it to the fan shroud. I turned 2 threaded bosses I'm going to burn onto the rad tanks to use the factory tabs of the fan to mount it. I also used 2 part epoxy putty to lock the remaining flaps closed since they are upside down now.

 

[Bebop]

Nice work

 

[Rockwood]

Update on my 650w Z06 fan. Went to Big Bear with record temps everywhere. Mid 90s at 8,000’ with the AC on stun. Buddy’s LJ on 40s shit the bed and had to drag him a couple miles uphill as well.

Despite the smaller radiator, max temps were 208*. Fan was at full tilt since the PWM controller always adds 50% duty cycle with AC on, but never let me down.

Win.

 

[Rockwood]

I am still messing with my install, but I have a Camaro fan almost grafted to this Griffin rad.

Perfect width, just tall. So I flipped it upside down, cut off the overhang, made a trim piece to both close the hole and tab onto the upper flange and then riveted it to the fan shroud. I turned 2 threaded bosses I'm going to burn onto the rad tanks to use the factory tabs of the fan to mount it. I also used 2 part epoxy putty to lock the remaining flaps closed since they are upside down now.

Did you put backing washers on those rivets? I had issues with another fan mod where the rivets started pulling through without.

 

[Bggrnchvy]

Did you put backing washers on those rivets? I had issues with another fan mod where the rivets started pulling through without.

I did not, but it it may prove necessary to do so. I tried to use as long a rivet as I could to make the largest backing body behind the plastic, but a washer might be the correct answer.

 

[Thatg9659]

40 inches of this is $30 + shipping
26mm ID
Wonder what pressure it’s good for?

Its raw finish might need some kind of coating.

 

[arse_sidewards]

40 inches of this is $30 + shipping
26mm ID
Wonder what pressure it’s good for?

Its raw finish might need some kind of coating.

That's basically a computer heat sink. If you're gonna use more than about 2" of it you really need it shrouded and air blowing in one end (like an electric motor).

It's probably good to hundreds of PSI depending on what safety factor you want. It's got more beef to it than any aluminum A/C tube and those handle hundreds.

 

[Rockwood]

40 inches of this is $30 + shipping
26mm ID
Wonder what pressure it’s good for?

Its raw finish might need some kind of coating.

For radiator hard lines that radiate?

 

[Thatg9659]

For radiator hard lines that radiate?

How many feet of this to not need a radiator?


Anything really, those little 12 inch ready to go extruded coolers are $100 bucks. Could weld an AN fitting to it or thread it with a barbaric npt tap.

Although this tight fin design probably wouldn’t work well packed with mud & trail dust. The raw material is available in various configurations.

 

[Rockwood]

How many feet of this to not need a radiator?


Anything really, those little 12 inch ready to go extruded coolers are $100 bucks. Could weld an AN fitting to it or thread it with a barbaric npt tap.

Although this tight fin design probably wouldn’t work well packed with mud & trail dust. The raw material is available in various configurations.

Lol, 600’?

Wouldn’t hurt either way, and the price is right. Rear mounted radiator, or setups where the engine outlet line has to cross the radiator behind the fans, would probably benefit from this.

 

[Thatg9659]

So I’m kind of warming up to the hydraulic cooling fan on this POS jeep. The flow control solenoid is shot connector disintegrated, so I took it off, gave the screw on the end 1.75 turns reinstalled it and I’ve got a fan that works enough to keep the engine & ac happy yet not sound like a jet engine.


two turns for jet engine mode.

 

[CarterKraft]

Cool video about using a Silverado fan in a custom send cut send shroud from the burndown YouTube channel. Intends to test vs some Delta PAG fans.
(Fan starts at 10:30)



Heres the burndown channels original vid


This is something I see myself doing with mine. Get rid of the plastic all together and build a specific shroud ring and motor mount.

 

[CarterKraft]

And I know the Delta PAG fans are not popular here but Nivlac above actually commented he was able to run a thinner radiator after switching to a Delta PAG fan, and it cooled better than the previous setup.

He had some twin Summit Racing (SPAL knock OFF junk) fans on this car before and he intends to do some comparisons from all their current cooling fans in there various cars all with the same engine.

 

[Isdtbower]

Looks like we are starting to break down the parts of "aftermarket" fan assemblies. Fan motors, Fan blades, Shrouds.
I am not particularly into the "box look." And quickly saw that it has to be 360* around. 1980. Air conditioning fan blade.
Today.....Would we add the short circular tube? Expansion tank is fire extinguisher with billet cap welded on. Good alum actually.