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Amphibious HEMTT

backchat said:
This one?
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Elwenil said:
Yup.
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That thread is great. I'm only on page 26 of 61. (So don't tell me the ending, lol) I can't believe he was building it at the same time as me and I didn't get wind of it. Of course, he is way faster than me.

On the wheels, I really thought everyone would say black. It's funny, almost every pic of one has color matched wheels except the jungle camo version. To me, the only problem with black is sometimes it blends in and looks like a big rubber donut. I hate that on sports cars. A green wheel may be to "loud", kind of like the blue wheels are now. I did a sample spray of the paint on an unseen float. It looks fairly dark. So maybe it won't jump out at you.

The other possibility is paint the wheel centers black and just have a green ring green ring about 4" wide. But that may look too "dressy". I might paint one of the wheels green just to get an idea how it looks.
 
There are only 3 color schemes for the HEMTT currently. The typical "3 Color NATO", which is the woodland pattern, Desert Tan, and many of them were shipped with just a "383 Green" base coat and will usually get the Black and 383 Brown over it for 3 Color NATO. But in service you will normally only see 3 color NATO or desert tan.

Remember the point of a camouflage paint job is to obscure the shape of the vehicle to prevent identification. If you want it to look "right" follow the patterns. Bootleg or "redneck" camo patterns almost always look like hell and are obviously cobbled together.
 
WaterH said:
That thread is great. I'm only on page 26 of 61. (So don't tell me the ending, lol) I can't believe he was building it at the same time as me and I didn't get wind of it. Of course, he is way faster than me.

On the wheels, I really thought everyone would say black. It's funny, almost every pic of one has color matched wheels except the jungle camo version. To me, the only problem with black is sometimes it blends in and looks like a big rubber donut. I hate that on sports cars. A green wheel may be to "loud", kind of like the blue wheels are now. I did a sample spray of the paint on an unseen float. It looks fairly dark. So maybe it won't jump out at you.

The other possibility is paint the wheel centers black and just have a green ring green ring about 4" wide. But that may look too "dressy". I might paint one of the wheels green just to get an idea how it looks.
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I think someone should whip up a couple of renders on it. I don't think there's any way to envision how it's going to look without actually doing it, or a model. Used to be a lot of photoshoppers around, maybe try shit chat or reddit or another forum?
 
Small update,

so awhile back I had the truck in for Windows to be made. The place made the two small chin windows and installed them in the truck with rubber i supplied. They did a shitty job and then said I needed to take the truck out of their shop because of covid. One of the things they did was cut my gasket too short. They didn't charge me, but of course this is another job I have to do now. (Theres only two glass shops and neither wants the job.)

The rubber I got has a triangular locking strip that keeps the glass in. Not sure if you can see it here.

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The guy at the shop put the wrong side out when he installed the windows and he never put the locking strip in. I flipped the gasket around and reinstalled the glass. Then I tried to install the locking strip. Got about 3/4 the way around and got stuck.

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There was no way to get the last of it in because the glass was cut too big. I ended up taking it all apart and tracing the hole on cardboard. Then I laid the glass on to see how it was cut.

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I measured the rubber and concluded that I needed the glass about.270" of an inch smaller all the way around. This glass was not that small. I decided to sand it smaller. I used a 4 1/2" grinder with a flap wheel. I ran water all the time so the glass wouldn't heat up.

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This was scary, but it worked pretty good. This was laminated windshield glass and I found that I had to grind the top glass at an angle and then flip it to grind the bottom layer. If I just ground the edge, it would crack up the lower glass. It was slow work, but eventually I got it down to size. I reinstalled the glass and was able to put the locking strip in all around.

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i bought some more rubber so it fit tight.

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I fixed the othe side the same way. Now that I had a system, I traced the rear glass and brought it to the other glass place and they cut my a piece that went in right away. I don't have a pic, but I was happy. So I traced one of the big windshields and they cut me another piece. I haven't installed it yet, but I think it will go fine. I will try it when I have help. All the glass will have to come out for paint anyways.


On a side note, back when I was working on the steps, I had a gas spring lose its "spring". I decided to cut it to see how it worked. If anyone is interested, here's a pic

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The thin puck with the oring is locked to the shaft. The two thick pucks slide. The one on the left is part of the housing. The one on the right is spaced off the housing by the tsilver tube. If you look close you can see how the shaft is differnt diameter on each side of the locked puck. There is a small hole in the locked puck. The pressured gas travels through the locked puck as the shaft goes in and out. Of course, it would like to go to the side with the smaller shaft. In this case, that means the shaft pulls in the housing. I assume it works the same on the push style except they reverse the shaft sizes
 
like the old saying goes..... If you want it done right you have to do it yourself. Good job on figuring out the glass dilemma, that shit would have drove me insane!
 
Elwenil said:
The locking strip goes on the outside.
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Do you have installation instructions? Not trying to be a dick, just curious. All the CNC machines have to locking strip on the outside to keep shit inside. I would think it would be the same for this. I'm about to redo the windshields in My motorhome and they have similar gaskets with the strips on the outside. They leak. I think they put them on the outside because it was easier, not because it was correct.
 
bdkw1 said:
Do you have installation instructions? Not trying to be a dick, just curious. All the CNC machines have to locking strip on the outside to keep shit inside. I would think it would be the same for this. I'm about to redo the windshields in My motorhome and they have similar gaskets with the strips on the outside. They leak. I think they put them on the outside because it was easier, not because it was correct.
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Every windshield and back glass I have seen with a lock strip or integral lock has face the outside of the vehicle. Also, when I had a new windshield made for my M715, I asked the glass company who made it how to install the gasket and they said the same thing. Something about the gasket being stronger that way so the wind won't push it in.
 
Elwenil said:
Every windshield and back glass I have seen with a lock strip or integral lock has face the outside of the vehicle. Also, when I had a new windshield made for my M715, I asked the glass company who made it how to install the gasket and they said the same thing. Something about the gasket being stronger that way so the wind won't push it in.
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It makes sense that the hard locking strip would prevent it from smooshing inside.
 
Elwenil said:
Every windshield and back glass I have seen with a lock strip or integral lock has face the outside of the vehicle. Also, when I had a new windshield made for my M715, I asked the glass company who made it how to install the gasket and they said the same thing. Something about the gasket being stronger that way so the wind won't push it in.
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You could be right. It seems like I've seen some cars with a Chrome lock strip on the outside. I figured that the locking strip would go on the inside so somebody couldn't steel the glass. It also looks better with the smooth side out. I looked at a UPS truck with flat glass and it had smooth rubber on the outside. But I don't know what it had on the inside. (Maybe no lock strip.)


evernoob said:
It makes sense that the hard locking strip would prevent it from smooshing inside.
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This locking strip is soft. It's the same rubber as the gasket. When I removed the locking strip, it's easier to push the window away from the locking strip. I know that doesn't make sense. Once the lock strip is installed, the glass is pretty stout from either side. I tried to google it and I'm not having much luck. I watched a utube video where they had it outside, but they didn't elaborate. (Might just be easier to install)
 
Paint woes,

So the guys on Steel Soldiers say to use Behr house paint for a camo paint job. They seem to sware by it, but I'm slightly hesitant. I decided to paint some sample pieces to see how it works. This part of the front float. It can't be seen when on the truck, so I'm not worried about how it looks. I sprayed this un thinned on a hot day in full sun.

dscn2158.jpg


The guys from SS told me that flat looks the most military, but it doesn't wash off easy. They told me "satin" is a bit smoother and is easier to keep clean. Since this is not a exact replica, easy sounds good. The color is fine, but the finish was really rough. You can't see it here, but it is like I painted over sand paper. So I thinned it with about 1-1 with water and I sprayed in the shade. It spayed out much nicer.

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It also was much easier to make runs.

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The run didn't bother me as it won't show, but I wanted to see if I can fix it if I make the same mistake on a more important part.


dscn2165.jpg


It was easy to sand off the run. But what I noticed was the paint will scratch really easy. You can see some scratches I put in the top here. I made them with just my fingernail. I didn't "bare down" on it. I just flicked my nail. You can see I got right down to the aluminum at the beginning of the scratch. All I did for prep was scotch brite the aluminum. I thought maybe it has to have primer, so I did another part, but first I primed it with zinc cromate. I don't have a pic of that, but I can still scratch it easy. The primer does seem to keep from scratching it right down to the aluminum, but still scratches way to easy.

At this point I'm letting it dry a few days to see if it hardens up. The guys on SS say it wares like iron, so I must be doing something wrong.
 
WaterH said:
Paint woes,

It was easy to sand off the run. But what I noticed was the paint will scratch really easy. You can see some scratches I put in the top here. I made them with just my fingernail. I didn't "bare down" on it. I just flicked my nail. You can see I got right down to the aluminum at the beginning of the scratch. All I did for prep was scotch brite the aluminum. I thought maybe it has to have primer, so I did another part, but first I primed it with zinc cromate. I don't have a pic of that, but I can still scratch it easy. The primer does seem to keep from scratching it right down to the aluminum, but still scratches way to easy.

At this point I'm letting it dry a few days to see if it hardens up. The guys on SS say it wares like iron, so I must be doing something wrong.
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Give it like a month. House paint takes forever to reach full hardness.
 
Yeah I was gonna say 1:1 is pretty extreme. All the auto paint I have been using on my build is a 4:1 ratio. 4 parts paint to 1 part activator.
 
WaterH said:
This locking strip is soft. It's the same rubber as the gasket. When I removed the locking strip, it's easier to push the window away from the locking strip. I know that doesn't make sense. Once the lock strip is installed, the glass is pretty stout from either side. I tried to google it and I'm not having much luck. I watched a utube video where they had it outside, but they didn't elaborate. (Might just be easier to install)
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There's a lot more material over there. The other side is pretty thin. The angle's different too. But, I don't know what's 'right' and 'wrong' on this, I've only ever messed with this on a camper a long time ago and I don't remember which was the strips went.
 
Latex house paint will always scratch. Thats why long ago I tried to sway you against it. For spraying through a cup gun, 10-15% is all you want to thin it. And yeah, all latex based house paint takes weeks to cure. Cant tell you how many people have come in saying their paint peeled off after they picked at it with a fingernail after only a day. Resist the urge!

Ive been running my e250 around for a few years now with an acrylic direct to metal paint ROLLED on and the only area with issues is the front of the hood from bug splatter. Prep was washing it and using a red scotchbrite pad on the factory paint. Benjamin Moore HP25 acrylic DTM in a low luster finish.
 
Bigblue 94 said:
Latex house paint will always scratch. Thats why long ago I tried to sway you against it. For spraying through a cup gun, 10-15% is all you want to thin it. And yeah, all latex based house paint takes weeks to cure. Cant tell you how many people have come in saying their paint peeled off after they picked at it with a fingernail after only a day. Resist the urge!

Ive been running my e250 around for a few years now with an acrylic direct to metal paint ROLLED on and the only area with issues is the front of the hood from bug splatter. Prep was washing it and using a red scotchbrite pad on the factory paint. Benjamin Moore HP25 acrylic DTM in a low luster finish.
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I thought the Behr stuff that the SS guys liked was an oil based paint.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I thought the Behr stuff that the SS guys liked was an oil based paint.
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Pretty sure it was water base when rich and i talked about it previously. I haven't visited the SS site. Benjamin Moore hasn't made exterior oil base house paint in probably 15 years. Im not sure if others still do or not. I know SW doesnt have one, as we've had local military in looking for it in flat and they said no one has it. That was at least 5 years ago.

The reason i suggested the water base (acrylic) DTM is the oil base isn't self priming on non-ferrous metals. For durability oil is the better option, but oil base fades and chalks up over time. Thats one reason it fell out of favor for house paint. Then of course the EPA hates oil base. We have the HP25 in white on metal roofs out at the local cellophane plant. Sulfuric acid and other chems fill the air there and its still holding up 7-8 years later.

With the effort he has put into this, I would use an industrial epoxy. Though finding one with a low sheen may be a tougher task. I would bet SW carries something. The main ones we sell are semi or full gloss. Id have to look in the Corotech catalog for the other types.
 
evernoob said:
There's a lot more material over there. The other side is pretty thin. The angle's different too. But, I don't know what's 'right' and 'wrong' on this, I've only ever messed with this on a camper a long time ago and I don't remember which was the strips went.
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Not sure which side you are referring to. Look at this pic.



Note that if you put the locking strip on the inside, the glass will be on the outside. Meaning that the inside of the glass is lined up with the metal lip. So the wind would have to roll the rubber on the lip to go in. You can see that would squeeze the window. But if you push from the locking strip side, the window is all ready past the metal, so it only needs to stretch the rubber and it can come out.
 
Bigblue 94 said:
Latex house paint will always scratch. Thats why long ago I tried to sway you against it. For spraying through a cup gun, 10-15% is all you want to thin it. And yeah, all latex based house paint takes weeks to cure. Cant tell you how many people have come in saying their paint peeled off after they picked at it with a fingernail after only a day. Resist the urge!

Ive been running my e250 around for a few years now with an acrylic direct to metal paint ROLLED on and the only area with issues is the front of the hood from bug splatter. Prep was washing it and using a red scotchbrite pad on the factory paint. Benjamin Moore HP25 acrylic DTM in a low luster finish.
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The guys on SS say it doesn't scratch easy. (After its dry for a month) I'm probably not going to paint anything important for a month to see how this goes. It has to be better than this or I won't use it. One issue I have is I'm going to have to paint allot of stuff green while it's apart. Than I have to assemble it and then paint the black pattern. The way I made this body it is very hard to assemble without some scratches. So I might need to repainted some green before the black.

I am not suggesting you are wrong and i havent made up my mind on this. I do like the water clean up and the colors are correct. All those guy on SS are somewhat convincing.

arse_sidewards said:
I thought the Behr stuff that the SS guys liked was an oil based paint.
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The paint is water based. I know that seems wrong, but houses do get wet sometimes.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Have you looked into aviation paint. It holds on to aluminum, its thin, it holds up against high speed bug and dust impact and normally doesn't chip away or scratch. I assume you should be able to find all the military colors for historic restorations.

https://industrial.sherwin-williams...tary-aircraft/topcoats/monocoat.10656241.html
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I guess this isn't more popular because of price? They do seem to keep those jets painted up nicely. Altitude cycles are pretty severe duty I'd guess.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
Have you looked into aviation paint. It holds on to aluminum, its thin, it holds up against high speed bug and dust impact and normally doesn't chip away or scratch. I assume you should be able to find all the military colors for historic restorations.

https://industrial.sherwin-williams...tary-aircraft/topcoats/monocoat.10656241.html
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Haven't really looked into anything besides the Behr stuff because that was what was recommended by the SS site. Those guys own all kinds of military stuff like tanks, halftracks and of course HEMTTs. This is not a cheap hobby, so these guys are not using house paint to save money. If I can't get this paint to work, I'm sure automotive will be fine. Of note, A company I use to work at was involved in re painting quite a few helicopters. They used automotive stuff. (Of course, they don't travel at the speeds of other aircraft.)"

evernoob said:
I guess this isn't more popular because of price? They do seem to keep those jets painted up nicely. Altitude cycles are pretty severe duty I'd guess.
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I don't really think this truck is going to see that much severe duty. If I scrape a rock, the paint won't matter. If I get some scratches driving over trees/bushes, I don't really mind. I just don't want it to scratch when you look at it wrong. Price is not a big factor for me. If it was a sports car, I wouldn't consider doing it myself, but it would seem like I could do a reasonable job on a military replica.
 
In my experience, the guys on SS are notoriously frugal. They didn't get into surplus because they like spending tons of money. Sure, there are the HEMTT owners and a few collectors who are big spenders, but I can remember when the whole "store bought" paint started years ago and, if I remember right, it had a lot to do with the expense of shipping gallons of paint from Rapco.
 
Instead of house paint and all that, why not contact Rapco? it's where i got the paint for my jeep, they do period correct military paints back to WW2, the satin olive, the old OD green, vietnam era paints, the CARC paints but without whatever evil chemicals were in it, etc..and they're great people, call and they'll help you out all they can. They can even send a variety pack of spray cans so you can figure out what you like best.
http://www.rapcoparts.com/padenew.html

Edit, didn't see that rapco was mentioned right above my post lol
 
Rapco is pretty much the standard in US military vehicle paint. Avoid Aervoe like the plague.
 
I wouldn't dream of painting all that bare aluminum without laying down a light coat of etching primer first.
A good etching primer from an auto body supply shop, or Duplicolor in rattle-cans (my go-to) is worth it.
After that, even house paint should stick well (but wait a month so it's fully crosslinked & cured before clawing at it).
 
subybaja said:
Is Rapco good paint, or just the right color?
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Rapco is good, durable paint and pretty much the favorite of MV restorers, especially post WWII vehicles. The main issue with the cheaper paint is fading and chalkiness and Rapco seems to hold up much better. Aeovoe is sort of famous on WWII OD Green colors turning a chalky pinkish hue. If you are going to deal with that, you may as well just use the crappy Rustoleum camo colors.
 
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