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Alec Baldwin Shot a Lady

Baldwin was practicing a cross-draw in a church on the set of the Western film on Oct. 21, 2021, when the Colt .45 revolver fired a live round, striking Hutchins and director Joel Souza, who suffered a non-life-threatening injury.

"This is not a case where Hannah Gutierrez made one mistake, and that one mistake was accidental -- putting a live round into that gun," prosecutor Kari Morrissey told jurors during her closing argument. "This case is about constant, neverending, safety failures that resulted in the death of a human being and nearly killed another."


:stirthepot:
1/2 charge or 1/4 whatever dead is dead.
How bout the cap from the blank round that killed some actor...

I got nuthin
:stirthepot:
 
Clb said:
Baldwin was practicing a cross-draw in a church on the set of the Western film on Oct. 21, 2021, when the Colt .45 revolver fired a live round, striking Hutchins and director Joel Souza, who suffered a non-life-threatening injury.

"This is not a case where Hannah Gutierrez made one mistake, and that one mistake was accidental -- putting a live round into that gun," prosecutor Kari Morrissey told jurors during her closing argument. "This case is about constant, neverending, safety failures that resulted in the death of a human being and nearly killed another."




I got nuthin
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I read the article before I posted it. I'll say it again, live rounds are not part of the program. This is a result of hiring an untrained libtard party girl instead of spending the money for a CREDENTIALED ARMORER.

AB is is ultimately responsible this senseless death!
 
Firstram said:
Hollywood NEVER uses live rounds. There are dummies and blanks, most blanks are 1/4 loads occasionally 1/2 . Tons of prop weapons have been modded to cycle with lightly loaded blanks. I do not miss the days of full auto mag dumps in a soundstage with full loads!
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Wasn't there some discussion of target shooting at lunch or such. So if that was the case, that explains how they got on set, assuming she didn't segregate the ammo properly.
 
Roc Doc said:
Wasn't there some discussion of target shooting at lunch or such. So if that was the case, that explains how they got on set, assuming she didn't segregate the ammo properly.
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I remember that too. That is absolutely insane in my opinion, but then again, using real functioning guns as props is also insane in my opinion.

With all the replicas Hollywood makes, and how much money they spend, I cannot see any reason non-functioning replicas couldn’t/shouldn't be used.
 
No live rounds?
Well ok, how does a
" blank round " funcfarther.
Was this not a "set"?
No excuse no exceptions
This person did not die from a unicorn fart.
 
Roc Doc said:
Wasn't there some discussion of target shooting at lunch or such. So if that was the case, that explains how they got on set, assuming she didn't segregate the ammo properly.
Click to expand...
There was and it does. I have never seen anyone target shooting at lunch anywhere near a set. They take the actors to a range or private facility for training all the time, even then, they often train with blanks.

A hand full of live rounds tossed in your pocket is not the norm at all!
 
Third word problems?

I got nuthin on foreign country law.

He is in court here ? No?
He is top dog in the movie hierarchy? Yes ?
= Ultimately responsible
:beer:
 
300sniper said:
I remember that too. That is absolutely insane in my opinion, but then again, using real functioning guns as props is also insane in my opinion.

With all the replicas Hollywood makes, and how much money they spend, I cannot see any reason non-functioning replicas couldn’t/shouldn't be used.
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Probably came down to money. This was a cut-rate production.
 
Firstram said:
There was and it does. I have never seen anyone target shooting at lunch anywhere near a set. They take the actors to a range or private facility for training all the time, even then, they often train with blanks.

A hand full of live rounds tossed in your pocket is not the norm at all!
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The Armorer is a trainwreck top to bottom. Now, we all know AB DID pull that trigger and is just trying to CYA with the lie that the gun went off without him pulling the trigger.
 
It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

John Ruskin
 
trampas said:
Hannah cleans up pretty well.


1709777908704.jpg


20240306_182038.jpg


Might have skipped a meal or two.


1709777785357.jpg
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She was just using that coca een to lose a few pounds. Lay off her
 
300sniper said:
I remember that too. That is absolutely insane in my opinion, but then again, using real functioning guns as props is also insane in my opinion.

With all the replicas Hollywood makes, and how much money they spend, I cannot see any reason non-functioning replicas couldn’t/shouldn't be used.
Click to expand...
Remember the rich guy that refused to pay full price for a PS4 controller so he bought a cheap China knockoff to steer his sub, in addition to all the other cheap shortcuts that led to his death? Yeah, it happens more than we expect. Rich people pinch pennies.
 
ExWrench said:
What you're missing is an understanding of the duties and responsibilities on that movie set.

AB is an irresponsible POS idiot for not checking the gun - but in that situation it's not a crime.​
​
The set armorer is responsible for handing the actor AB a prop, not a weapon.​
​
AB is ultimately responsible as the producer (armorer's boss) but not as the actor.​

I'm not saying what he did as a gun handler was remotely OK; just explaining what the laws are.
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As I said, I don’t have a problem with other people getting charged after the trigger puller. But the trigger puller is directly responsible unless there was some trickery. If AB was told all guns were fake, that would be trickery. But if your handling a real gun, it doesn’t matter how many people have duties on the set, the trigger puller is number one responsible to check the weapon.

To you guys sayin* real ammo is never used, I call BS. If they had a scrip call for an empty car to get shot up with an AK. They could set up a hundred explosive charges to create the rounds hitting the car or they could dump a couple clips in it. Which would make more sense?
 
WaterH said:
To you guys sayin* real ammo is never used, I call BS. If they had a scrip call for an empty car to get shot up with an AK. They could set up a hundred explosive charges to create the rounds hitting the car or they could dump a couple clips in it. Which would make more sense?
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They get total control of explosions and effects when they rig with explosives. I wouldn't expect to see any professional film using live rounds for that purpose. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't pass the sniff test to me.
 
WaterH said:
As I said, I don’t have a problem with other people getting charged after the trigger puller. But the trigger puller is directly responsible unless there was some trickery. If AB was told all guns were fake, that would be trickery. But if your handling a real gun, it doesn’t matter how many people have duties on the set, the trigger puller is number one responsible to check the weapon.
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Read that in a law, didga?
 
CrustyJeep said:
Read that in a law, didga?
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If I want to kill someone, I guess I can shoot them and than say “the gun I keep in my car is always unloaded. I didn’t know my brother loaded it while I was in my house. He takes care of all the guns.”

Then he gets manslaughter and I get off?

I’ll bet the there is nothing in the law that says “in cases of armorers, the shooter gets a pass”. I bet no mention is made of films or armorers are made in the law.

Not saying AB is not getting off, but he shouldn’t. He acted in a reckless manner. No other employee changes that.
 
WaterH said:
To you guys sayin* real ammo is never used, I call BS. If they had a scrip call for an empty car to get shot up with an AK. They could set up a hundred explosive charges to create the rounds hitting the car or they could dump a couple clips in it. Which would make more sense?
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WH, you're a smart, talented guy who has no fucking clue what you're talking about, you should stick to helicopters:flipoff2:

We prep the cars in advance with small dimple dies.

Squib Hit Bullet Hit Dimpler Sweeney

Every hole is numbered and loaded with a squib before it's filled with light weight spackle and prepped for paint. Sometimes we actually superglue a Neco Wafer in place and sand it flush!

We also glue squibs to the side windows, just under the weather stripping, with protective shielding to contain the launched glass. You have to roll the window down a half inch or so to give the tempered glass room to grow, if you don't, it will not fall out!

On a big budget show, bullet hits in windshields are done with trunion guns mounted inside just lower than the dash.

rogergeorge.com

Trunnion Launcher

Trunnion Launcher barrel is 3/4in. 4130 Chrome Moly tubing, reamed to .567in. The usual squib is a MP Associates T12-6 or De La Mare D60-6. We mold the slugs from epoxy-type metal patching compound, such as 'Fast Steel'.
rogergeorge.com

They're loaded with a squib that shoots a clear glass marble through the glass.

rogergeorge.com

Sweeney Marble Hits

These hits are for use by experienced effects operators. Sweeney Marble Hits are ideal for breaking or cracking glass especially on car windshields. They're .69 cal so they can be fired out of the typical paintball gun. Always use Sweeney hits with caution. Do not shoot them at people or...
rogergeorge.com

They shatter on impact which gives you a plume of dust exiting the hole and no shrapnel! The part you don't see is the polycarbonate shield separating the occupants from the effect.

There are countless ways to fire these squibs, wired and wireless, but they are always fired by an experienced pyro guy looking for a reason to not fire.

You have to understand that we usually prep for 2 or 3 takes!

On a low budget show, we use paint ball guns to shoot vaseline capsules that splat and look like a hole in the windshield.

rogergeorge.com

Simulated Glass Bullet Hit

Vaseline Hits Our simulated glass bullet hits produce the look of a bullet impacting glass. Filled with vaseline, they hit a car window and spatter as if the glass has shattered. Take care not to stand too close to the glass you want to "shoot." Use a 68.9 Caliber paint ball gun with variable...
rogergeorge.com

We also shoot thousands of hits filled with colored dust, portland cement, zerk hits (sparks) and blood splats encapsulated in styrene. You can buy the empty's and fill them with anything you want.


Matt Sweeney won an Academy Award for his Sweeney Gun. It's a pneumatically operated fully automatic rifle that shoots ball bearings and we don't use them very often these days. There was a time and place to actually shoot a projectile but CGI has replaced the need.

We don't use Tommy Guns anymore either.

35750297157a8194f30658469d55d6d0.jpeg
 
WaterH said:
As I said, I don’t have a problem with other people getting charged after the trigger puller. But the trigger puller is directly responsible unless there was some trickery. If AB was told all guns were fake, that would be trickery. But if your handling a real gun, it doesn’t matter how many people have duties on the set, the trigger puller is number one responsible to check the weapon.

To you guys sayin* real ammo is never used, I call BS. If they had a scrip call for an empty car to get shot up with an AK. They could set up a hundred explosive charges to create the rounds hitting the car or they could dump a couple clips in it. Which would make more sense?
Click to expand...
I was just telling you how the law works :homer:
 
Firstram said:
WH, you're a smart, talented guy who has no fucking clue what you're talking about, you should stick to helicopters:flipoff2:

We prep the cars in advance with small dimple dies………………
Click to expand...

Can you rig cars to look like bullets are hitting them? Of course, and when people are involved, they have to. But is there a law that they can’t film live ammo? No. Do they ever film live ammo? Yes.

ExWrench said:
I was just telling you how the law works :homer:
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The law doesn’t make any provisions/exceptions for actors. Does the law let people off in some cases involving accidents? Yes. They will probably let AB off here citing an accident. But in my way of thinking, an accident is cleaning a loaded gun and it firing through a wall and hitting someone. It is stupid, but the gun cleaner was not aiming the gun at someone. When you point a gun at some one and pull the trigger, I say it’s manslaughter, at the very least.
 
WaterH said:
The law doesn’t make any provisions/exceptions for actors.
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Jesus, you dense cocksucker :shaking: - the answers to your questions have been given clearly multiple times in this thread :homer:. Nobody's saying it's right that AB isn't liable as the shooter - but but, butthole - there is no applicable law under which he's criminally liable as the shooter. As the director (armorer's boss), possibly; and civil liability is another matter.

Fuck off with what "you think should happen" unless this is being tried in the court of your head :flipoff2:
 
ExWrench said:
Jesus, you dense cocksucker :shaking: - the answers to your questions have been given clearly multiple times in this thread :homer:. Nobody's saying it's right that AB isn't liable as the shooter - but but, butthole - there is no applicable law under which he's criminally liable as the shooter. As the director (armorer's boss), possibly; and civil liability is another matter.

Fuck off with what "you think should happen" unless this is being tried in the court of your head :flipoff2:
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The applicable law is involuntary manslaughter. Got this on the net.

“Involuntary manslaughter does not have to involve motor vehicles. For example, the operator of a dangerous carnival ride may fail to ensure that all passengers are strapped in before the ride. If someone dies as a result, the operator could face prosecution for involuntary manslaughter. An apartment building manager may neglect to install smoke detectors. After a deadly fire, police may start an inquiry for involuntary manslaughter.

These cases often turn on whether the defendant's conduct is what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances. If the defendant's actions show a reckless disregard for safety or human life, then it's more likely there will be criminal liability.”
 
WaterH said:
Got this on the net.
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Sorry there Matlock, I wasn't aware of your interwebs bona-fides :homer:

While you're googling shit on the Magic Internet Light-Show Box: look up New Mexico laws, find one under which you think AB can be charged, and post it here.

Hint: someone who understands those laws reasonably well already posted them here in this thread and explained why AB can't be held criminally liable as the shooter. We've argued that point for at least 10 pages in this thread. Also, believe it or Florida, the NM District Attorney's office looked into it as well.

With all due respect to the hours you've spent watching judges Wapner and Judy, you're demonstrating felonious levels of ignorance here :flipoff2:
 
ExWrench said:
Sorry there Matlock, I wasn't aware of your interwebs bona-fides :homer:

While you're googling shit on the Magic Internet Light-Show Box: look up New Mexico laws, find one under which you think AB can be charged, and post it here.
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Here you go.

New Mexico Involuntary Manslaughter Law​




Created by FindLaw's team of legal writers and editors | Last reviewed February 10, 2023

legally-reviewed-icon.svg

Legally Reviewed​

fact-checked-icon.svg

Fact-Checked​

In New Mexico, manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. In contrast, murder is the killing of another human being through a willful, deliberate, and premeditated act. The crime of manslaughter is divided between voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.
Voluntary manslaughter consists of an intentional killing for which there was a mitigating circumstance which reduces the crime from murder. Involuntary manslaughter, on the other hand, consists of a killing that was unintentional, resulting from either recklessness or criminal negligence.
For example, if a person decided to drive a car blindfolded and ended up in a car accident where passengers were killed, the act would be perceived as reckless since it may be anticipated that death or serious injury would occur from such actions and the person would be charged with voluntary manslaughter. Another example is if the same person, knowing that his car had serious brake problems, allowed another person to drive his car. This may be perceived as a criminally negligent act and the person may be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Penalties for involuntary manslaughter are generally less severe than other forms of homicide. However, in New Mexico, it is still a fourth-degree felony punishable by up to 18 months in prison and up to $5,000 in fines. The following is a quick summary of New Mexico's involuntary manslaughter laws.
 
ExWrench said:
Yeah, no shit - if you read back in this thread, you can learn why AB can't be charged as the shooter under that law. As the producer, possibly.
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Thats not true, as the shooter he can be held liable. He talked to the police without a lawyer present and admitted he knew it was a real firearm. Under the 2nd half of the law he aimed a firearm he knew was real at an individual and it caused their death. It was a lawful act that produced death without due caution and circumspection. To top it off they have multiple videos of him practicing the shot in which he quick draws and has his finger on the trigger.

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
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