Alec Baldwin Shot a Lady

[Sandy Johnson]

Exactly, you could easily be shot "in the shoulder" and hit the subclavian artery:

Picture source: Circulatory Pathways | Anatomy and Physiology

Aaron Z

I'm definitely no medic, I always assumed they had ways to pinch those off. I had a friend get brake checked on his motorcyle by a car and somehow his front brake lever went into his femoral artery way up his thigh. He doesn't remember much, but the story goes that he was bleeding out in the intersection and got lucky that an EMT was on his way to work sitting at the light and had front row seats to what happened. The dude got to him, cut his pants and boxers off, and somehow stopped the bleeding right there in the street until an ambulance came.. I know, cool story bro. Just my attempt to illustrate that as far as I'm concerned those guys can perform miracles.

 

[dnsfailure]

I'm not sure where to be on this deal but...

If you don't know howto operate something, then don't fuck with it.
He was the last person in control of the gun, it should be his responsibility to make sure that he was operating it in a safe manner.

that's my point. Actors are portraying people that they are not. Do you think an actor flying a ww2 plane actually knows how to fly a ww2 plane? No, they are told what to do, and filmed. In most cases, actors don't know what they are doing. they are just made to look good doing so. that's why it's called "acting"

 

[ChiScouter]

The LA Times article you linked said she was hit near her shoulder, which is what I was going off of, could be they got it wrong:

Daily Mail article said the police search warrant said she was hit in the chest, where did you read that there was no medic or that the projectile did not hit a vital organ?

 

[aczlan]

I'm definitely no medic, I always assumed they had ways to pinch those off. I had a friend get brake checked on his motorcyle by a car and somehow his front brake lever went into his femoral artery way up his thigh. He doesn't remember much, but the story goes that he was bleeding out in the intersection and got lucky that an EMT was on his way to work sitting at the light and had front row seats to what happened. The dude got to him, cut his pants and boxers off, and somehow stopped the bleeding right there in the street until an ambulance came.. I know, cool story bro. Just my attempt to illustrate that as far as I'm concerned those guys can perform miracles.

In the right spots, yes a trained person can.
Someone who isn't an EMT and hasn't had training/experience in where to press, or a projectile hitting someplace where you cannot put pressure on the artery upstream of the wound and you are a goner, especially in the middle of nowhere.

Aaron Z

 

[ChiScouter]

that's my point. Actors are portraying people that they are not. Do you think an actor flying a ww2 plane actually knows how to fly a ww2 plane? No, they are told what to do, and filmed. In most cases, actors don't know what they are doing. they are just made to look good doing so. that's why it's called "acting"

He should not have accepted the gun from the AD and called for the Armor, he is a lead actor and producer no one would question him

 

[dnsfailure]

He should not have accepted the gun from the AD and called for the Armor, he is a lead actor and producer no one would question him

A. the AD probably didn't hand him the gun. Go back to school.
B. fuck off

 

[Trackerbacker(fvckvs)]

He should not have accepted the gun from the AD and called for the Armor, he is a lead actor and producer no one would question him

Say an actor is a doctor, another is a patient.

If the doctor is using fake syringes to administer heroin for the scene for whatever fucking reason...

Do you think the actor doctor should check for a real syringe loaded with real heroin? Right before he kills the actor patient with a heroin overdose?

Kind of like, why was there real heroin and syringes... and why should the actor know that?

 

[IowaOffRoad]

And

are there zero excuses with vehicles? Do you trust the manufacturer that your suspension won’t fall off killing a busload of nuns?

The analogy fits better if you use mechanic. These were people at fault more than the equipment.

I guess per everyone here, an actor should personally visually check the bore before each take…

I stated before the post delete that all people should have a minimum of gun safety training. If more people know how to operate and handle firearms properly, including what to look for in case of faulty operation, less accidents like this would happen. Considering the paranoia of Hollywood considering guns, you think it would be mandatory. If anyone is handing me a gun under any circumstances, movie set or not, I’d want to verify it was in a safe state. Hell, if told I have a scene coming up that I had to fire a blank at someone, I think I’d want to see the round made and load it myself.
This is how you will practically eliminate this shit.
That being said, I’m certain it was accidental and no one, and everyone is to blame. Plenty of shit went sideways before that girl died.

 

[dnsfailure]

The analogy fits better if you use mechanic. These were people at fault more than the equipment.

I stated before the post delete that all people should have a minimum of gun safety training. If more people know how to operate and handle firearms properly, including what to look for in case of faulty operation, less accidents like this would happen. Considering the paranoia of Hollywood considering guns, you think it would be mandatory. If anyone is handing me a gun under any circumstances, movie set or not, I’d want to verify it was in a safe state. Hell, if told I have a scene coming up that I had to fire a blank at someone, I think I’d want to see the round made and load it myself.
This is how you will practically eliminate this shit.
That being said, I’m certain it was accidental and no one, and everyone is to blame. Plenty of shit went sideways before that girl died.

Us that are used to handeling real guns is a lot different than someone who is used to dealing with "prop" guns, which are neutered. You and I expect a gun to send a projectile down the barrel and to kill or at least go through what ever we are aiming at. Actors expect a popping sound and a bit of recoil, not something that will kill someone.

 

[ChiScouter]

Say an actor is a doctor, another is a patient.

If the doctor is using fake syringes to administer heroin for the scene for whatever fucking reason...

Do you think the actor doctor should check for a real syringe loaded with real heroin? Right before he kills the actor patient with a heroin overdose?

Kind of like, why was there real heroin and syringes... and why should the actor know that?

You geniuses didn't bother to read the articles I linked and/or don/t understand or know firearm procedures on a film set Are you experts not at all puzzled as to why the AD handed him the gun? If an AD tried to hand me a gun I would refuse but you guys have your own ways of doing things.

 

[ChiScouter]

A. the AD probably didn't hand him the gun. Go back to school.
B. fuck off

Another geniuses that didn't bother to read the articles I linked and/or don/t understand or know firearm procedures on a film set As an expert are you not at all puzzled as to why the AD handed him the gun? If an AD tried to hand me a gun I would refuse but you know more than what what was in the linked article, so who do you think handed him the gun?

 

[dntsdad]

If my buddies and I are camping and I hand a buddy a gun and say it isn't loaded, and he knows nothing about guns except to pull the trigger to make a bang, and he points it and kills someone, he IS going to jail.

Maybe or maybe not he is prosecuted, but he IS going to jail.

In today's climate, he is probably going up for negligent homicide and honestly, maybe rightfully so. I am not sure.

He certainly would not being getting an outpouring of love, support, or compassion.

Fuck this guy. Let him suffer what he surely would want to happen to others.

What's to stop gangbanger TooSaggy from dumping a round into the guy down the street for having red underwear showing when he sags and claiming "someone" handed him the gun and said it was unloaded? Cause he isn't a movie star?

Again, fuck Alec Baldwin. Let him fry.

 

[dnsfailure]

Another geniuses that didn't bother to read the articles I linked and/or don/t understand or know firearm procedures on a film set As an expert are you not at all puzzled as to why the AD handed him the gun? If an AD tried to hand me a gun I would refuse but you know more than what what was in the linked article, so who do you think handed him the gun?

in the productions that i've been on set for, the AD doesn't deal with simple shit like props, the AD deals with things that are more pressing to getting the film made.

oh.

 

[hooligan shmulligan]

People really need to set aside there hate for Baldwin. The guy is an actor and that's it ,not a fire arms expert.

If Tom Hanks would of actually electrocuted some one on the filming of Green Mile. You'd call the person that said "dumb fuck should have locked out ,tagged out,tried out before he flipped the switch" the dumbest mother fucker alive. But some how a actor that was given a gun by a trained qualified person is at fault?

Now Alec Baldwin the producer of Rust is a different story. Sounds like the set was a shit show. Him being a producer he's responsible for hiring the qualified people to insure the safety of cast and crew.

 

[Trackerbacker(fvckvs)]

You geniuses didn't bother to read the articles I linked and/or don/t understand or know firearm procedures on a film set Are you experts not at all puzzled as to why the AD handed him the gun? If an AD tried to hand me a gun I would refuse but you guys have your own ways of doing things.

Ok..

Why was there live ammunition period? (I've asked this as I don't understand)

How would iconic scenes be made by actors if the didn't point guns at people? Should no movies despite the plot depict any violence, gun pointing, fighting, hanging or jumping from buildings?

Again, I don't understand why there was a live round on site. The same as I wouldn't understand why they'd have real heroin and real syringes for an overdose scene in a movie.

 

[dnsfailure]

ok folks and ChiScoutDummy, I'm out for tonight

 

[Boss]

I'm definitely no medic, I always assumed they had ways to pinch those off. I had a friend get brake checked on his motorcyle by a car and somehow his front brake lever went into his femoral artery way up his thigh. He doesn't remember much, but the story goes that he was bleeding out in the intersection and got lucky that an EMT was on his way to work sitting at the light and had front row seats to what happened. The dude got to him, cut his pants and boxers off, and somehow stopped the bleeding right there in the street until an ambulance came.. I know, cool story bro. Just my attempt to illustrate that as far as I'm concerned those guys can perform miracles.

You suck at nudes.

 

[dntsdad]

People really need to set aside there hate for Baldwin. The guy is an actor and that's it ,not a fire arms expert.

If Tom Hanks would of actually electrocuted some one on the filming of Green Mile. You'd call the person that said "dumb fuck should have locked out ,tagged out,tried out before he flipped the switch" the dumbest mother fucker alive. But some how a actor that was given a gun by a trained qualified person is at fault?

Now Alec Baldwin the producer of Rust is a different story. Sounds like the set was a shit show. Him being a producer he's responsible for hiring the qualified people to insure the safety of cast and crew.

So only firearm experts can be arrested for shooting people?

Isn't that why there is a negligent qualifier?

If I change lanes and run someone off a cliff can I claim that my blind spot indicator didn't beep and then go post on Twitter about it and its all good?

 

[aczlan]

What's to stop gangbanger TooSaggy from dumping a round into the guy down the street for having red underwear showing when he sags and claiming "someone" handed him the gun and said it was unloaded? Cause he isn't a movie star?

One would hope that there is a higher standard of care from a propmaster and a armorer on a movie set as to making sure a live round doesn't make it onto the set than your hypothetical gangbanger and as a result a reasonable person would expect any firearms on the set to be unloaded, or to be loaded with dummy/blank ammo.

Aaron Z

 

[RHTrucks]

Anyone thought this is a ploy to distract us from FJB/LGB???

 

[ChiScouter]

Ok..

Why was there live ammunition period? (I've asked this as I don't understand)

How would iconic scenes be made by actors if the didn't point guns at people? Should no movies despite the plot depict any violence, gun pointing, fighting, hanging or jumping from buildings?

Again, I don't understand why there was a live round on site. The same as I wouldn't understand why they'd have real heroin and real syringes for an overdose scene in a movie.

A lot of what went wrong was mentioned but not explained in those articles I just posted them and did not elaborate to let the nitwit know it alls out themselves. Others are saying it was a live round I keep calling it a projectile. There are very strict protocols and rules to keep live rounds far away from a set. I don't know nor have I read anything credible that it was a legit live round or something else that came out such as a pebble or squib, or who knows what. I have not read anything that said how far the muzzle was away from the people who were shot. My guess is only the Armor and the police know what came out of that barrel and neither of them are going to say anything anytime soon. One of the articles stated that they had already done the same rehearsal at least once before the incident, so were there empty chambers, or did he not pull the trigger in previous rehearsal, or what.

Here is how Baldwin gets really jammed up, if he was impatient waiting for the Armor to bring out the weapon and ordered the AD to get it and the AD who should never touch it grabs from the wrong table or area. Then you have a producer who broke the chain and threw all the rules out the door, If that happened then I predict criminal charges of some sort on Baldwin and the AD

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Another geniuses that didn't bother to read the articles I linked and/or don/t understand or know firearm procedures on a film set As an expert are you not at all puzzled as to why the AD handed him the gun? If an AD tried to hand me a gun I would refuse but you know more than what what was in the linked article, so who do you think handed him the gun?

I did read your article and made inferences from it, same as e every other person that reads an article.

As someone who once in another life had to learn about safety on set while filming a movie, I was initially confused as to how live ammunition even made it's way on set... Then I was confused by a lot of the other claims I read about how the production was run, and by the time I got to reading that the AD was in charge of handing out guns, I just figured the whole thing was a shit show.

I'm sorry that I drew different conclusions (shoulder injuries and medical staff in site) than you after reading the articles you posted and that in doing so I have some how caused you stress. I hope you have a better day imparting wisdom in the internet tomorrow.

 

[dntsdad]

One would hope that there is a higher standard of care from a propmaster and a armorer on a movie set as to making sure a live round doesn't make it onto the set than your hypothetical gangbanger and as a result a reasonable person would expect any firearms on the set to be unloaded, or to be loaded with dummy/blank ammo.

Aaron Z

Obviously, I do not disagree but would it make this person's arguement any different?

How can any person then be responsible if they assumed that the person before them unloaded, had the safety on, loaded blanks, etc. into a gun?

 

[Donk]

I'm picking up a bit of a disconnect here between regular gun guys and guys who know how the movie industry works.

Summary of my understanding so far....
Live gun/ammo in the real world = projectile
Live gun/ammo in movies = blank
Real world = treat all guns like they gonna put a hole in something.
Movies = there's a difference between a "live" gun and a "prop" gun that may look real (even going as far as appearing to contain ammunition) and make clicks but is incapable of accepting and firing ammunition.

I suppose the question really is was this an negligent discharge or a mechanical/systemic failure?

1) If the gun was pointed in the correct direction and a bang was expected to happen then has the actor actually done anything wrong?

2) If the actor was supposed to be handed a "prop" (refer to above definition) pointed it in the correct direction and pulled the trigger as instructed and a bang happens is it the actor's fault, the prop guy's or a systemic failure that led to the actor being handed a live weapon instead of a prop?

3) The actor is randomly waving a known "prop" gun about and said weapon fires?

4) The actor is randomly waving a known "live" gun about and said weapon fires?

Answers IMO
1) No. The failure is either mechanical of the gun itself ie BFA plug coming loose and turning into a projectile, maintenance related ie there's a squib from previous use that hasn't been cleared or someone loaded the weapon with real ammo instead of blanks.

2) Maybe. If the full chain of custody has been followed and the actor has been incorrectly handed a live weapon then no, the fault is elsewhere. The chain of custody has been broken ie at the directors request then partly, the actor should refuse to take the prop if all procedures are not followed. If the actor themselves has broken the chain of custody ie by getting the gun off the prop table themselves or via an assistant then yes the fault lies with the actor.

3) Yes. This is where traditional gun safety applies, if the gun is kept pointed in a safe direction unless being directed to do otherwise then the only hole would be in the floor.

4) 100 percent yes


TL/DR: This situation is not as black and white as it may seem.

 

[Bamajeeper]

The guy that shot Brandon Lee did not get charged for any crime. It was ruled an accident.

 

[roundhouse]

Everything in movies nowdays is fake CGI . Why would they use actual real guns capable of firing real Ammo ?

Why would they ever use even blanks in guns in scenes ?

Anyway. This is an accident , no different than if a light fell or any of the dozen other ways people have been injured or killed in filming .

This being a movie set changes everything .
It’s now no different than if a mechanic gets killed because a lift or jack wasn’t prepared or repaired or inspected properly and a car fell on someone .

Everyone is apeshit because its Baldwin

If it had been some stagehand , it wouldn’t even make the news , not any more newsworthy than if the stage hand had been killed in an auto accident

 

[2020AT4]

Dude, she fawkin bled out, no vital organs hit. No medics on the shoot? That makes the whole situation even worse.

There are two huge arteries in your shoulders.

Most likely one was hit and short of that happening in the operating room your odds of surviving are shit.

 

[2020AT4]

You suck at nudes.

Meh, I fapped to it.

 

[FJC11]

To bad he wasn't filming a suicide scene , I guess we will see if the real story ever comes out , either way he's still a steaming pile of shit FAB !

 

[DMG]

I'm definitely no medic, I always assumed they had ways to pinch those off. I had a friend get brake checked on his motorcyle by a car and somehow his front brake lever went into his femoral artery way up his thigh. He doesn't remember much, but the story goes that he was bleeding out in the intersection and got lucky that an EMT was on his way to work sitting at the light and had front row seats to what happened. The dude got to him, cut his pants and boxers off, and somehow stopped the bleeding right there in the street until an ambulance came.. I know, cool story bro. Just my attempt to illustrate that as far as I'm concerned those guys can perform miracles.

There is an absolutely awful picture of a guy with his legs blown off after the Boston Marathon Bombing being wheeled to an ambulance while someone pinches his femoral artery. He lived.

it is possible that the artery Baldwin hit was internal deep enough that it coukdnt be clamped without surgery.