A wolf in Jeeps clothing - Goatbuilt 1200 LJ/TJ Chassis build

[Bebop]

I was wrong, they need to be fused @ 40 amps per spal, and have an amp draw of 25 amps per fan. I didn't think a connector operating at max amp rating was a good thing. That is why I initally went the DTHD route. The Metripack has enough saftey factor for me to be comfortable.

RADFAN1	SPAL AV13-AP70/LL-63A 30102044	DRIVER SIDE COOLING FAN 1
AMP DRAW	25	NOTES: FUSED FOR 40A@12V?
WIRE SIZE	10 AWG
CONNECTOR	DTP
PIN COUNT	2
OTHER
LOCATION	PIN	CONDUCTOR	DESTINATION
1		10AWG RED
2		10AWG BLACK

I'm gonna go against what I just told you and in favor of what Satan's_Minion said (this guy knows what he's talking about...).
I thought your fan was drawing 40amp constant.

For something that is 25amp constant I would use some DTP, rather than the Metripak 630 I showed you. DTPs are much better/smaller connectors and will take the amperage you're going for.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I'm gonna go against what I just told you and in favor of what Satan's_Minion said (this guy knows what he's talking about...).
I thought your fan was drawing 40amp constant.

For something that is 25amp constant I would use some DTP, rather than the Metripak 630 I showed you. DTPs are much better/smaller connectors and will take the amperage you're going for.

Even though they will have a peak draw (on start up I assume) over the rated capacity? I have options now, DTP, DTHD, Metripack. Haha.

Another question for the audience; Are beads/barbs critical on coolant lines and N/A intake tubing? My lower radiator hose has a section of 1.50" X .120 6061 with a -10 fitting welded on. This section has no bead to secure the hoses. Is a good quality hose clamp adequate? Same with the intake, 4.00" thin wall AL, with no beads?

And thanks again to Austin for providing us with a bitchin place to document, share, collaborate, and post these builds. And thanks to everyone following along. This is my first build, and having guys who have been there and done that chime in with advise is pretty rad.

 

[Bebop]

Even though they will have a peak draw (on start up I assume) over the rated capacity? I have options now, DTP, DTHD, Metripack. Haha.

Yes.
DTP will handle the inrush just fine.

Another question for the audience; Are beads/barbs critical on coolant lines and N/A intake tubing?

My lower radiator hose has a section of 1.50" X .120 6061 with a -10 fitting welded on. This section has no bead to secure the hoses. Is a good quality hose clamp adequate? Same with the intake, 4.00" thin wall AL, with no beads?

Yes on coolant, nope on N/A intake.
I'd still do it to the intake to avoid popping a boot in a high vibration environment.

Just weld three 1" long beads with your welder so that the clamp can bite on something.

 

[Wisconsinite]

^ Will do!

 

[chaplinfj60]

hell ya bud, looking good. i love the detail in everything you do.

 

[WaterH]

This is not how you wire fans.
Do it right and you won't have problems.

SPALs are probably the finest consumer grade fans you can get. I've wired countless cars and have never ever had an issue when using a SPAL fan that was properly sized for the application and wired correctly. Never.

A little vague here. Obviously, it wasn’t right or I wouldn’t have problems. But your not telling anyone what’s right. I never said the Spal fans were not good. When you said “not wired correctly” , what do you mean?

Since that post, I have just installed a second 75 amp relay. With one on each fan, it seems to work fine. (We’ll see) I have no doubt I could run one relay of 100 amps and be fine also. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Bebop]

A little vague here. Obviously, it wasn’t right or I wouldn’t have problems. But your not telling anyone what’s right.

I tried in your thread, but I get this :

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Obviously there's more than one way to skin a cat. But your way sucks.

There is also no need to derail Wisconsinite build here. You can PM me if you want to talk more in detail about this issue, or answer in your own thread but let's keep this thread clean.

 

[Wisconsinite]

A little vague here. Obviously, it wasn’t right or I wouldn’t have problems. But your not telling anyone what’s right. I never said the Spal fans were not good. When you said “not wired correctly” , what do you mean?

Since that post, I have just installed a second 75 amp relay. With one on each fan, it seems to work fine. (We’ll see) I have no doubt I could run one relay of 100 amps and be fine also. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

I am in electrical newb, what was the thought process of having both fans on one relay?

I have two rad fans, and three trans cooler fans. I was thinking about wiring them up so they activate at certain temps. For instance, I don't need all the fans on the trans cooler coming on @ 160°. I would like to have one come on @ 160°, one @ 175°, and the third @ 190°, and I think my PCM is capable of that. I thought about doing that for the radiator fans as well. I am not quite that far yet.

 

[Bebop]

I was thinking about wiring them up so they activate at certain temps. For instance, I don't need all the fans on the trans cooler coming on @ 160°. I would like to have one come on @ 160°, one @ 175°, and the third @ 190°, and I think my PCM is capable of that. I thought about doing that for the radiator fans as well. I am not quite that far yet.

Smart move and I'd do this too if I had your hardware. The Dominator will absolutely handle that.

The only downside is the need for a fuck ton of relays, but if you go with a PDM this is a mute point.

Only thing I would say is to remember than there is a low chance that one little 5" fan will do much to keep the temp under 160 so there is a high probability that the trans will live between 160 and 180 most of the time and will run 100% of the time.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I have this little relay center I am planning to use. It uses ultra micro relays, I am not sure those will be sufficient for some of the larger loads. But should be GTG for most things.

 

[WaterH]

I am in electrical newb, what was the thought process of having both fans on one relay?

I have two rad fans, and three trans cooler fans. I was thinking about wiring them up so they activate at certain temps. For instance, I don't need all the fans on the trans cooler coming on @ 160°. I would like to have one come on @ 160°, one @ 175°, and the third @ 190°, and I think my PCM is capable of that. I thought about doing that for the radiator fans as well. I am not quite that far yet.

In the case of the two fans on one relay, that was for the AC condenser. When it calls for it, you want all the fans running for AC.

On my radiator (separate from the AC condenser) I have two Spal fans that come on at two different temps like you suggest. Im controlling mine by simple thermostats. (Wired to relays) The two fans are completely different systems which is nice because if one goes down, the other can keep the motor from overheating.

 

[chaplinfj60]

I have this little relay center I am planning to use. It uses ultra micro relays, I am not sure those will be sufficient for some of the larger loads. But should be GTG for most things.

thats legit awesome. omg talk about cool.

 

[Bebop]

I have this little relay center I am planning to use. It uses ultra micro relays, I am not sure those will be sufficient for some of the larger loads. But should be GTG for most things.

Footprint is huge for very little outputs. That's 8 relays. With your logic you're already burning 3 for trans cooler, 2 for engine fans, 1 for fuel pump.
Now you only have 2 relays left for the rest of the car. Meh.
They make a 16 channel version of the same product that is bigger obv.

Or you could use 2 of these, one for the powertrain and one for the chassis/accessories wiring.

thats legit awesome. omg talk about cool.

8 circuits Weatherproof Relay/Fuse center

We searched high and low for a really nice waterproof power distibrution center and could not find one. We ended up contracting a professional wiring company to build us a distribution center to our specifications. - Compact unit with fuses and relays in one spot - 100% dust and water proof...

bustedknuckleoffroad.com

 

[Wisconsinite]

Footprint is huge for very little outputs. That's 8 relays. With your logic you're already burning 3 for trans cooler, 2 for engine fans, 1 for fuel pump.
Now you only have 2 relays left for the rest of the car. Meh.
They make a 16 channel version of the same product that is bigger obv.

Or you could use 2 of these, one for the powertrain and one for the chassis/accessories wiring.

8 circuits Weatherproof Relay/Fuse center

We searched high and low for a really nice waterproof power distibrution center and could not find one. We ended up contracting a professional wiring company to build us a distribution center to our specifications. - Compact unit with fuses and relays in one spot - 100% dust and water proof...

bustedknuckleoffroad.com

Isn't the BKOR box esentially the same as what I have?

I was considering adding a second unit like I have for the rest of wiring.

 

[Bebop]

Isn't the BKOR box esentially the same as what I have?

I was considering adding a second unit like I have for the rest of wiring.

Same thing, only prewired when you buy it from BK

 

[Wisconsinite]

This thing is on its way. #relays4dayzzzz. lol

 

[Wuz-A-zuk]

Got a link for that fine looking piece?

 

[Wisconsinite]

Got a link for that fine looking piece?

P: Search: 46065

46065

www.waytekwire.com

They only have two left in stock. With the way things are going with supply chain issues, I ordered it as soon as Bebop helped me realized the one I had was too small.

~$400 with all the connectors, pins, and seals.

I have the small one I could sell if you are interested.

 

[Bebop]

Keep the 8 one until you're absolutely sure you want to centralize the whole harness into 1 point

Having 2 different relay centers may be a smart idea.

Put one in the front of the car for the front stuff, one in the rear for the rear stuff and you're cutting down on a bunch of long runs.


Maybe.


gotta plan your shit then buy the parts vs buying the parts and then making the wiring fit what you got.

 

[Wisconsinite]

^ You are right. I should be waiting until I have my poop in a group to order this stuff.

 

[chaplinfj60]

Keep the 8 one until you're absolutely sure you want to centralize the whole harness into 1 point

Having 2 different relay centers may be a smart idea.

Put one in the front of the car for the front stuff, one in the rear for the rear stuff and you're cutting down on a bunch of long runs.


Maybe.


gotta plan your shit then buy the parts vs buying the parts and then making the wiring fit what you got.

agree. and guess what i have a new thread for the winter, and you all can help me figure out my wiring mess. how simple can it be and still look like shit. i did it. its a rig on propane, no computer, damit man. so i love all these ideas you have going on.

 

[Bebop]

so i love all these ideas you have going on.

I like coming up with ideas. Just don't have enough time to make them all happen.

So if I can help people, and see good ideas brought to life, I'm all for it.

 

[Wuz-A-zuk]

They only have two left in stock. With the way things are going with supply chain issues, I ordered it as soon as Bebop helped me realized the one I had was too small.

~$400 with all the connectors, pins, and seals.

I have the small one I could sell if you are interested.

Thanks for the link, I may take you up on that once I see which route I'll be taking but I'm definitely going to need either one of these or 2 of the 8 circuits.

Keep the 8 one until you're absolutely sure you want to centralize the whole harness into 1 point

Having 2 different relay centers may be a smart idea.

Put one in the front of the car for the front stuff, one in the rear for the rear stuff and you're cutting down on a bunch of long runs.


Maybe.


gotta plan your shit then buy the parts vs buying the parts and then making the wiring fit what you got.

I'm considering just this, running 2 separate 8 circuits panels, one under each side of the dash. One for motor/fans/etc. The other for accessories and such.

OR just one 16 circuit if I have the room somewhere. Just waiting to have my "poop in a group" before I drop that coin. Not sure where It's going and how much room I have.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I really dig the idea of having one up front, and one in the cab. I will have to give that some more thought.

 

[Bebop]

I really dig the idea of having one up front, and one in the cab. I will have to give that some more thought.

Look into how OEMs wire their vehicles.
There is a reason why nobody has a huge box under the hood and that's it.
It's not cost effective nor very practical.

 

[Satan's_Minion]

Even though they will have a peak draw (on start up I assume) over the rated capacity? I have options now, DTP, DTHD, Metripack. Haha.

The metri-pack 630 is a fine connector to use if you want as well. Common to use metri-pack 280 on those types of fans as well.

Fan startup is 6-7 times running current theoretical, reduced in the system based on the installation and power supply capability. The duration is in the range of 1 second.

I would not recommend using the small relays or mini fuses on fans in the 20 amps range and up. Keep the main fan current out of your bussed power distribution box unless it is a much heavier version like the Blue Sea Safetyhub100/150 etc.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I would not recommend using the small relays or mini fuses on fans in the 20 amps range and up. Keep the main fan current out of your bussed power distribution box unless it is a much heavier version like the Blue Sea Safetyhub100/150 etc.

Why is that?

 

[Wuz-A-zuk]

Why is that?

x2, my weakness is wiring so I'm curious as well.

 

[Bebop]

Because they are too small. The terminals and internals won't take the inrush very long and you'll burn them.

 

[Wisconsinite]

Because they are too small. The terminals and internals won't take the inrush very long and you'll burn them.

NOW YOU TELL ME!