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huh whats with RB, max seeemd to be channeling Hammy with all the whining.

Pretty decent race though, nice work team orange!
 
XtremeJ said:
Think Nando must feel screwed over somewhat. All these simulations and strategies and the surprise undercut is the best option. And no one could see that happening?
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They did though. He was told prior to pitting the second time that he was only being pitted first to cover off the undercut from Hamilton and that he would undercut Piastri and was to let Piastri through after they pitted him next lap. A possible scenario discussed pre race apparently. If Lando had followed the team's orders and switched back straight away instead of being a little bitch he would have had 15+ laps to get past Piastri and probably would have :shaking:

Fuck knows who pissed in Max's cheerios, I thought he'd outgrown that crybaby bullshit. MF owes the team, Hamilton, his fans and whole F1 family in general an apology for his behaviour yesterday, unfucking believable really :mad3:
 
Donk said:
Fuck knows who pissed in Max's cheerios, I thought he'd outgrown that crybaby bullshit. MF owes the team, Hamilton, his fans and whole F1 family in general an apology for his behaviour yesterday, unfucking believable really :mad3:
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Did they penalize him after the race?
 
ApeEater said:
Did they penalize him after the race?
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Nope apparently the FIA decided it was a racing incident. The conclusion even said Hamilton could have done more to avoid the incident.
 
Donk said:
Nope apparently the FIA decided it was a racing incident. The conclusion even said Hamilton could have done more to avoid the incident.
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aside from turning away from the turn completely, I don't know what he could have done.
 
Donk said:
They did though. He was told prior to pitting the second time that he was only being pitted first to cover off the undercut from Hamilton and that he would undercut Piastri and was to let Piastri through after they pitted him next lap. A possible scenario discussed pre race apparently. If Lando had followed the team's orders and switched back straight away instead of being a little bitch he would have had 15+ laps to get past Piastri and probably would have :shaking:

Fuck knows who pissed in Max's cheerios, I thought he'd outgrown that crybaby bullshit. MF owes the team, Hamilton, his fans and whole F1 family in general an apology for his behaviour yesterday, unfucking believable really :mad3:
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He's been very unprofessional when he's not winning. McC is on the rise for sure.

Saw some youtube discussion of the RB changes to bodywork and that they may use the old bodywork on some circuits and the new on others. I wonder how much different the car drives with these changes, and Max is going to get a grid place penalty at the next race for an engine swap.
 
Donk said:
They did though. He was told prior to pitting the second time that he was only being pitted first to cover off the undercut from Hamilton and that he would undercut Piastri and was to let Piastri through after they pitted him next lap. A possible scenario discussed pre race apparently. If Lando had followed the team's orders and switched back straight away instead of being a little bitch he would have had 15+ laps to get past Piastri and probably would have :shaking:

Fuck knows who pissed in Max's cheerios, I thought he'd outgrown that crybaby bullshit. MF owes the team, Hamilton, his fans and whole F1 family in general an apology for his behaviour yesterday, unfucking believable really :mad3:
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Ah yeah I did remember hearing that, I thought they had already swapped places. That is a frequent off behavior with drivers throughout F1 - team or FIA gives a update to switch; and the driver bitch about it forever. Just do it and get back to racing. But yes to Max he needs to pony up, that was a stupid attempt. Glad it didn't screw up Hammys car.

Donk said:
If he'd delayed his turn in, he could have watched Max plough into the barriers on the other side of the corner :lmao:
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He's pretty quick thinking, sorta surprised he didn't see that coming and do just that.
 
Donk said:
They did though. He was told prior to pitting the second time that he was only being pitted first to cover off the undercut from Hamilton and that he would undercut Piastri and was to let Piastri through after they pitted him next lap. A possible scenario discussed pre race apparently. If Lando had followed the team's orders and switched back straight away instead of being a little bitch he would have had 15+ laps to get past Piastri and probably would have :shaking:

Fuck knows who pissed in Max's cheerios, I thought he'd outgrown that crybaby bullshit. MF owes the team, Hamilton, his fans and whole F1 family in general an apology for his behaviour yesterday, unfucking believable really :mad3:
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Can you imagine a Senna, or Prost, or Schumacher or Vettel or Max giving up a place on track because of team orders? Well Schuey that once awkwardly trying to let Rubens win, but really?

Nando (like the tasty Chicken) is appropriate because he is too nice a guy and lacks the killer instinct. Would have been perfectly acceptable, to unplug your radio cord and tell the team to get stuffed. Maybe he lost it at the start, maybe he lost because he did not hand the position back soon enough (as if McLaren would have allowed the cars to race) to attempt a pass - nope, this race will define his career when he is unable to win a championship because he lacks that last ounce of killer instinct. And very clear now in the garage who the favored child is. That is going to destroy what progress they have managed to make this season.

And I fully understand that the main goal is the constructors championship and the drivers championship is just for show, but in this instance that makes zero difference and you have just cost the driver in your team that is 2nd in the championship points. Stupid strategy, stupid race management, and stupid excuses. This was a marketing exercise to validate Piastri (who has been touted as the second coming of Jack Brabham, but who has consistently underdelivered, while accumulating a hefty repair bill)

Some fair play turn around in the Max / Lewis battle. Honestly surprised the usually biased FIA did not immediately ban Max for the rest of the season and award the poor little black child all the points. Unusual for them to declare anything involving Obama-lite a racing deal, and not sanctioning the heck out of the racist white driver involved.

Lots of storylines for the Eurotrash soap opera this week, which is good, because honestly the racing is terrible (at best). Count the actual number of passes that happened ON track. While Nascar and Indycar hardly put on great races, I think each of them had more passes in the last lap than F1 had all race. At some point these Drive to Survive fans are going to figure out the Emperor is not wearing any clothes.
 
XtremeJ said:
Can you imagine a Senna, or Prost, or Schumacher or Vettel or Max giving up a place on track because of team orders? Well Schuey that once awkwardly trying to let Rubens win, but really?

Nando (like the tasty Chicken) is appropriate because he is too nice a guy and lacks the killer instinct. Would have been perfectly acceptable, to unplug your radio cord and tell the team to get stuffed. Maybe he lost it at the start, maybe he lost because he did not hand the position back soon enough (as if McLaren would have allowed the cars to race) to attempt a pass - nope, this race will define his career when he is unable to win a championship because he lacks that last ounce of killer instinct. And very clear now in the garage who the favored child is. That is going to destroy what progress they have managed to make this season.

And I fully understand that the main goal is the constructors championship and the drivers championship is just for show, but in this instance that makes zero difference and you have just cost the driver in your team that is 2nd in the championship points. Stupid strategy, stupid race management, and stupid excuses. This was a marketing exercise to validate Piastri (who has been touted as the second coming of Jack Brabham, but who has consistently underdelivered, while accumulating a hefty repair bill)

Some fair play turn around in the Max / Lewis battle. Honestly surprised the usually biased FIA did not immediately ban Max for the rest of the season and award the poor little black child all the points. Unusual for them to declare anything involving Obama-lite a racing deal, and not sanctioning the heck out of the racist white driver involved.

Lots of storylines for the Eurotrash soap opera this week, which is good, because honestly the racing is terrible (at best). Count the actual number of passes that happened ON track. While Nascar and Indycar hardly put on great races, I think each of them had more passes in the last lap than F1 had all race. At some point these Drive to Survive fans are going to figure out the Emperor is not wearing any clothes.
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I've said it before, the cars are too big. I get it, they want the series to be the pinnacle of tech, but especially on tighter courses passing opportunities are just so limited. Maybe cut down on number of guys over the wall, to make pit stops 4 or 5 seconds, or reduce aero or tire size. It is kinda boring now and I usually just watch the highlights.


 
Roc Doc said:
I've said it before, the cars are too big. I get it, they want the series to be the pinnacle of tech, but especially on tighter courses passing opportunities are just so limited. Maybe cut down on number of guys over the wall, to make pit stops 4 or 5 seconds, or reduce aero or tire size. It is kinda boring now and I usually just watch the highlights.


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As someone who used to get up to watch races live, every race, every season, I cannot recall the last time I watched an entire race. Maybe not in 5 years or more. My hatred for the halo is well documented

You are spot on on car size. At PRI a couple years ago they had a new Williams on display, and an early 80's Williams (possibly the Alan Jones car) on the same stand. They were not recognizable as being the same series (you could argue that a 1984 Porsche 911 looks like a 2024 Porsche 911 although also grown larger)

And wanting to be green and tout those credentials.
Then lose the stupid batteries that require their own Atlas airliner to transport - none of the countries that the series races in will allow them to dispose of those batteries, they must all be returned to "origin".
Lose the two jack handlers, at the expense of 10kgs of on board jacks, like every single professional series in the world uses
Lose two tires guys per wheel, make the actual tire guy do some work Nascar or Indycar style. Marginally longer pitstops will actually enhance the spectacle, and add strategy options
Lose the one or two guys who sole job is to stabilize the car on the crappy manual jacks.

I have to think not flying, clothing, feeding, transporting, housing and paying 12 crew to 23 destinations world wide would make a healthy dent in the budget without impacting the "show" at all. Then the teams could build even fancier paddock operations to impress sponsors to keep the whole circus going
 
XtremeJ said:
As someone who used to get up to watch races live, every race, every season, I cannot recall the last time I watched an entire race. Maybe not in 5 years or more. My hatred for the halo is well documented

You are spot on on car size. At PRI a couple years ago they had a new Williams on display, and an early 80's Williams (possibly the Alan Jones car) on the same stand. They were not recognizable as being the same series (you could argue that a 1984 Porsche 911 looks like a 2024 Porsche 911 although also grown larger)

And wanting to be green and tout those credentials.
Then lose the stupid batteries that require their own Atlas airliner to transport - none of the countries that the series races in will allow them to dispose of those batteries, they must all be returned to "origin".
Lose the two jack handlers, at the expense of 10kgs of on board jacks, like every single professional series in the world uses
Lose two tires guys per wheel, make the actual tire guy do some work Nascar or Indycar style. Marginally longer pitstops will actually enhance the spectacle, and add strategy options
Lose the one or two guys who sole job is to stabilize the car on the crappy manual jacks.

I have to think not flying, clothing, feeding, transporting, housing and paying 12 crew to 23 destinations world wide would make a healthy dent in the budget without impacting the "show" at all. Then the teams could build even fancier paddock operations to impress sponsors to keep the whole circus going
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I think we're seeing it the same way.

Oh, and bring back the umbrella girls.
 
A 60 place grid penalty. :laughing:

The FIA Gave Yuki Tsunoda A 60-Place Penalty Despite There Only Being 20 Spots On The Grid​

The Visa Cash App RB team is installing Yuki's fifth engine this year at the Belgian Grand Prix​

By
Bradley Brownell
Published3 hours ago

Comments (4)



8db7ddf9d783c5067d75b8a81c61d2e4.jpg

Image: RB F1 Team
The upcoming Belgian Grand Prix is the fourteenth round of the 2024 season, and Visa Cash App RB driver Yuki Tsunoda has already used all of his allotted Red Bull Drivetrains engine replacements for the season. Every time a regulated “power unit element” is replaced, it comes with a ten-spot grid penalty. The RB team figured since Tsunoda’s car needed a new engine after Hungary, they might as well go for broke and replace everything.

​



Ahead of the race at Spa Francorchamps this weekend, the team have installed Yuki’s fifth internal combustion engine, fifth turbocharger, fifth MGU-H, fifth MGU-K, third energy store, and third electronics control unit. Six power unit elements means a 60-place grid penalty. Yuki could theoretically grab pole in qualifying on Saturday and he’d still have to start the race from last.

​

Those Ford powertrain development dollars can’t come Red Bull’s way soon enough, I think.















​
 
Weasel said:
:eek: geez gotta be motivating! :shaking:
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How about poor Russell? Underweight by what 3 or 4 lbs? Maybe his one stop race fucked him in the end, I could see 3 or 4lbs of rubber being gone off of 4 tires, plus weight loss from undercarriage scraping?
 
There seems to be more than meets the eye on this one.

In the FIA complaint it sounds like Mercedes did not completely pump out the fuel tank, at first.
My basic understanding is cars come off track and are weighed as is. Then they are pumped out of fuel, for fuel legality checks and there must be at least 1.0 liter of fuel available (rule post Vettel running out on track)
Russels car was exactly on the minimum weight, with 2.65 liters of fuel (approx 2 kgs depending on specific weight of actual fuel, guesstimating 0.75 kgs/liter)

Now with the fuel pumped out, car was 1.5 kgs below min weight. Weighed on both pitlane scales and the scales in the tech garage to confirm (and probably weighed both directions on both scales)

Not unusual we tell drivers to take the long way home, in other words drive off line and pickup as much tire debris as possible, This is usually because we run so close to min allowed ride height, and need every extra mm we can get. I have never really thought how much weight a tire loses over a course of a stint and whether that made a difference - just assumed that the clag we pick up weighs the same as the rubber we have lost. (and why we run 1.5 or 2 kgs over our 1485 kg limit.

I am wondering why the complaint specifically mentions that at one point the team claimed to have pumped out all the fuel, yet there was still some fuel remaining. Tank was then pumped dry according to the procedure submitted by the team itself before the season.

So possibly the engineer was aware they were going to be close on weight, and asked the team to fudge the pump out procedure? maybe? harder to hide an extra bottle of water in an open cockpit car compared to a GT.

And for the second week in a row, the strategy guys all get the wrong call, and think Mercedes wanted the same until Russell enquired about a single stop option.
A smart anorak will tell you how much 2 kgs make per lap, (for some reason I have 10kgs = 0.1 seconds on a 2 minute lap time in my mind), so I doubt the missing weight was the difference in winning and losing, just smart strategy, and an amazing drive by Russell - unfortunately for naught.
 
XtremeJ said:
There seems to be more than meets the eye on this one.

In the FIA complaint it sounds like Mercedes did not completely pump out the fuel tank, at first.
My basic understanding is cars come off track and are weighed as is. Then they are pumped out of fuel, for fuel legality checks and there must be at least 1.0 liter of fuel available (rule post Vettel running out on track)
Russels car was exactly on the minimum weight, with 2.65 liters of fuel (approx 2 kgs depending on specific weight of actual fuel, guesstimating 0.75 kgs/liter)

Now with the fuel pumped out, car was 1.5 kgs below min weight. Weighed on both pitlane scales and the scales in the tech garage to confirm (and probably weighed both directions on both scales)

Not unusual we tell drivers to take the long way home, in other words drive off line and pickup as much tire debris as possible, This is usually because we run so close to min allowed ride height, and need every extra mm we can get. I have never really thought how much weight a tire loses over a course of a stint and whether that made a difference - just assumed that the clag we pick up weighs the same as the rubber we have lost. (and why we run 1.5 or 2 kgs over our 1485 kg limit.

I am wondering why the complaint specifically mentions that at one point the team claimed to have pumped out all the fuel, yet there was still some fuel remaining. Tank was then pumped dry according to the procedure submitted by the team itself before the season.

So possibly the engineer was aware they were going to be close on weight, and asked the team to fudge the pump out procedure? maybe? harder to hide an extra bottle of water in an open cockpit car compared to a GT.

And for the second week in a row, the strategy guys all get the wrong call, and think Mercedes wanted the same until Russell enquired about a single stop option.
A smart anorak will tell you how much 2 kgs make per lap, (for some reason I have 10kgs = 0.1 seconds on a 2 minute lap time in my mind), so I doubt the missing weight was the difference in winning and losing, just smart strategy, and an amazing drive by Russell - unfortunately for naught.
Click to expand...

And apparently MB is not going to appeal.
 
Roc Doc said:
How about poor Russell? Underweight by what 3 or 4 lbs? Maybe his one stop race fucked him in the end, I could see 3 or 4lbs of rubber being gone off of 4 tires, plus weight loss from undercarriage scraping?
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Well yeah that is a kick in the nuts for sure.

XtremeJ said:
There seems to be more than meets the eye on this one.

In the FIA complaint it sounds like Mercedes did not completely pump out the fuel tank, at first.
My basic understanding is cars come off track and are weighed as is. Then they are pumped out of fuel, for fuel legality checks and there must be at least 1.0 liter of fuel available (rule post Vettel running out on track)
Russels car was exactly on the minimum weight, with 2.65 liters of fuel (approx 2 kgs depending on specific weight of actual fuel, guesstimating 0.75 kgs/liter)

Now with the fuel pumped out, car was 1.5 kgs below min weight. Weighed on both pitlane scales and the scales in the tech garage to confirm (and probably weighed both directions on both scales)

Not unusual we tell drivers to take the long way home, in other words drive off line and pickup as much tire debris as possible, This is usually because we run so close to min allowed ride height, and need every extra mm we can get. I have never really thought how much weight a tire loses over a course of a stint and whether that made a difference - just assumed that the clag we pick up weighs the same as the rubber we have lost. (and why we run 1.5 or 2 kgs over our 1485 kg limit.

I am wondering why the complaint specifically mentions that at one point the team claimed to have pumped out all the fuel, yet there was still some fuel remaining. Tank was then pumped dry according to the procedure submitted by the team itself before the season.

So possibly the engineer was aware they were going to be close on weight, and asked the team to fudge the pump out procedure? maybe? harder to hide an extra bottle of water in an open cockpit car compared to a GT.

And for the second week in a row, the strategy guys all get the wrong call, and think Mercedes wanted the same until Russell enquired about a single stop option.
A smart anorak will tell you how much 2 kgs make per lap, (for some reason I have 10kgs = 0.1 seconds on a 2 minute lap time in my mind), so I doubt the missing weight was the difference in winning and losing, just smart strategy, and an amazing drive by Russell - unfortunately for naught.
Click to expand...

The announcers said 1kg=0.01s per lap. No idea where, how or if that's accurate. I think it's possible that could be lost on tire wear. Not exactly something one would consider though. And they scrape the crap out of the skids on some of those corners.
 
Don’t forget there is a prescribed maximum amount of wear on the plank - Lewis or Seb suffered the FIA wrath over this if I remember

And those sparks are spectacular because titanium skid plates to try to save wear on the plank.

And typical F1 those are not simple plywood planks. Used be jabrock but some teams have gone to a super dense type of hemp to now be “green”.
 
It seems Shovlin has been reading this thread. :laughing:



Mercedes reveal cause of Russell Belgian GP disqualification​

Mercedes has established some of the causes that led to George Russell's Belgian Grand Prix car coming in underweight, which resulted in disqualification.

Samuel Coop
Today, 05:45
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2 comments


Mercedes trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin has explained some of the reasons that led to George Russell being disqualified from the Belgian Grand Prix.
The 50-year-old highlighted multiple factors that together contributed to the British driver and his car coming in 1.5kg beneath the prescribed weight limit during the FIA's post-race checks.
Russell and Mercedes had pulled off an audacious one-stop strategy at Spa-Francorchamps to win from sixth on the grid, crossing the line less than a second ahead of team-mate Lewis Hamilton, who inherited victory.

Shovlin stated that whilst the team was ultimately still trying to understand what had happened, the car can lose a considerable amount of weight over the course of the grand prix - as can the driver.
"Obviously, very disappointing and unfortunate, particularly after he'd [George Russell] driven such a strong race to win from so far back," the British engineer said.
"Right now we're trying to understand exactly what happened. A lot of that involves as getting the weights of all the different components, and the car can lose quite a lot of weight during the race.
"You get tyre wear, plank wear, brake wear, oil consumption, the driver themselves can lose a lot, and in this particular race, George lost quite a bit of weight."

Viewed by others:​

hilst the two Mercedes cars were within 500 grams of each other after qualifying, Russell's personal weight loss during the grand prix, when combined with excessive plank wear and tyre degradation, was ultimately what tipped the scales.
By opting for the one-stop strategy, a decision that was made on the fly during the race itself, Russell's tyres had been worn more than usual for a race-ending compound.
His 34-lap stint was more than Pirelli had predicted achievable, and the vast majority of the field felt the two-stop approach was the optimal strategy.
"Now, the cars started the race the same weight," Shovlin added. "Lewis [Hamilton] and George were both weighed after qualifying, cars within 500 grams.
"George's was the only one that had the problem and it's because things like the tyre wear was much higher.
"It looks like we lost more material on the plank. We'll collect all that data though, look at how we can refine our processes, because clearly we don't want that to happen in the future."
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Wow, season is really changing. It looked like a RB walkover for the season, but damn, McClaren has really come on strong, and MB and Ferrari are figuring it out too. Great day for the Tifosi.
 
what the hell on the lap last? It looked like for a split sec the Ferrari blipped left for whatever reason and took them both into the wall. :eek: I'd be pissed if I was Perez.
 
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