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2024 F1 thread

Roc Doc

Roc Doc

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Well since 23 is long done and we're already talking about 24 in the other thread....I just hope the new season isn't a walkover for RB.

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XtremeJ said:
From a buddy in the paddock, rumor status only

Red Bull ceased development on the 2023 car at the holiday break in August. Those designers were moved to the 2025 project, and development for the 2024 car is full speed ahead. Does not bode well for the rest of the field.

Newey, Horner, Verstappen - an unbeatable combination. Props to VER for now having more victories than even Vettel (also with most of his victories in RB designed by Newey) I don't see much changing in 2024, going to be 25 when the engine regs change to see a shake up I think
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87manche said:
I wonder if all the other teams don't regret ignoring the budget constraints like red bull did.
FIA fined them, but here they are with championships to show for their rule breaking and a marked advantage over every other team in the field.
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XtremeJ said:
Hiring accountants that can read the gray area of the rules has become as important as hiring engineers and designers that do the same

Have heard that a lot of budget is being "hidden" within the marketing expenses, and also why having an engine partner who covers the cost of engine development is key. Witness RedBull bringing on Ford in a couple years, Ford covers development cost under a company separate from RB, and yet RB is going to own most of the intellectual property in the power plant.

interesting times for sure, just a pity the cars are so god damn ugly heavy pigs.

Perhaps a system like MotoGP and their performance concessions might bring closer racing. F1 lost viewers in every period where there was dominant team - Schuey at Ferrari, Vettel at RB, Hammy at Mercedes, and now Verstappen at RB. The Netflix fans probably desperate for on track action and competition, experienced fans realize the season can be done at the first test (if the team nails the design). Always been that way.
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STRICTER ENGINE PENALTIES (AGAIN)​

Motor Racing Formula One World Championship Mexican Grand Prix Race Day Mexico City, Mexico


F1 has power unit usage restrictions to save costs, but since 2018 these rules have been applied with a degree of leniency built in for repeat offences.

The first time a driver exceeds their seasonal allocation of a specific element, they get a 10-place grid penalty. The next time they need a new example of that element, it is only a five-place grid penalty. More than 15 places in total necessitates a back of the grid start.

This creates an unusual situation where a repeat offence gets a lighter punishment than the first. It is something that various teams and drivers have questioned at times because the advantage afforded by a new V6 engine, for example, can be significant with a minimal trade-off.

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Gary Anderson’s solution for F1’s repeated grid penalty mess
Read more

It also means that as soon as a driver earns a back of the grid penalty for only changing a couple of elements, teams tend to make even more changes because the size of the penalty is effectively set.

The upshot is that engine usage is high, increasing spending and defeating the purpose of the restrictions, with 444 components used across the 20 cars ahead of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix weekend – compared to just 390 at the same stage last season.

On Friday, the F1 Commission discussed possible updates to these penalties. There is agreement that the current system “is not a strong enough deterrent to teams” to make a strategic change, whatever the type.

The Commission has noted this “undermines” the restrictions, which will undergo further “analysis and refinement”.

WILL TYRE BLANKET BAN HAPPEN?​

Motor Racing Formula One World Championship Mexican Grand Prix Practice Day Mexico City, Mexico


A glide path towards a full tyre blanket ban in 2024 began this year with the reduction in maximum tyre blanket temperature from 100C (front) and 80C (rear) to 70C.

Another 20C drop to 50C maximum for the blankets was meant to take place next year, although that is set to be officially scrapped after negative tyre feedback.

In short, the Pirelli tyres don’t warm up quickly enough to be used from such a low temperature.

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Gary Anderson’s take on F1 tyre blanket ban amid driver backlash
Read more

The 70C limit will remain, albeit reduced from three hours to two. And that has led to questions about whether the tyre blanket ban will happen at all.

Drivers say that the current tyres aren’t good enough for that, so it all depends on the quality of the Pirelli product.

This has been hinted at by the Commission, which has decided to delay any decisions relating to the tyre blanket ban until July 2023. Though the objective is still to remove tyre blankets in 2024, the implication is that the ban could be scrapped depending on how testing goes in the early months of next year.

MAKING DRS AVAILABLE SOONER​

Motor Racing Formula One World Championship Brazilian Grand Prix Race Day Sao Paulo, Brazil


F1’s drag reduction system is currently accessible after the commencement of the third racing lap. That goes for the start of a race, and a restart following a safety car.

There will be a trial run changing this in 2023 with a view to a full-scale change later.

The Commission has agreed to activate the DRS one lap earlier in sprint races in 2023. The objective is to keep the field closer together and encourage closer racing.

If this goes well, it will adopted for every grand prix in 2024.
 
Promoted to your level of incompetence?





FIA chief Steve Nielsen quits after less than a year​


Steve Nielsen's appointment was seen as a good move within F1. Bryn Lennon - Formula 1/Formula 1 via Getty Images
FIA sporting director Steve Nielsen has quit his role with racing's governing body after less than a year in the position.
Nielsen was appointed in January to oversee and improve the FIA's race control operations.


His move from F1 to the FIA followed a series of controversial decisions, most notably the Michael Masi mistake which impacted the end of the 2021 championship at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
Within F1 Nielsen's appointment, which saw him work closely with race director Niels Wittich, was seen as a good step to rebuilding trust in the governing body.
As recently as August, Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) head George Russell described Nielsen as "a really great addition" to the process, but the championship now enters the new year with a void in that position.
According to a report by the BBC, Nielsen stepped away because he did not feel the FIA is willing to make the changes he felt need to be implemented.
His departure will raise serious questions over what comes next for the FIA - the way race control administered penalties remained a talking point in the 2023 season. A reorganisation is expected to follow in the new year.
The FIA heads into the new year under a cloud caused by its knee-jerk investigation into an alleged conflict of interest between Mercedes boss Toto Wolff and F1 Academy chief Susie Wolff, which appeared to be based entirely off a single report in F1 Business Magazine.
All nine of Mercedes' rival teams distanced themselves from suggestions one of them had raised an official complaint to the FIA.
The investigation was dropped after just two days.
The FIA, led by president Mohammed Ben Sulayem, has not yet elaborated on what prompted the investigation or what was behind the decision to go public.
Earlier this month the Wolffs said they are involved in a legal exchange with the FIA over the matter.
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Is RB using this PU again?


The Red Bull super engine: The evolution of the Honda Power Unit:
An analysis of the Honda Power unit, which went from the worst engine on the grid to a reference for the rest of the field last year.
Honda's F1 engine development manager, Asaki, noted that they chose not to deploy it on the track for specific reasons. Given Honda's exit from F1 by the end of 2021, they aimed to introduce an enhanced power unit. Alongside the CAC2, Honda collaborated with Red Bull to optimize their new streamlined engine.
After implementing 'Kumamoto Plating,' Honda significantly improved the car's center of gravity and combustion efficiency. This change altered energy recovery dynamics; with better combustion, there was reduced exhaust energy available for storage. Consequently, Honda had to boost energy output from the crankshaft while maintaining optimal exhaust performance, particularly concerning temperature.
Honda made significant advancements not only in the endothermic section of the power unit but also in its electric component, outpacing rivals notably last year.
Reflecting on the McLaren era, their cars struggled with an inefficient energy recovery system, including the battery. Honda prioritized enhancing this vital component, investing in technology rooted in carbon nanotechnology.
Asaki highlighted that after years of work, they created a more efficient, smaller, and lighter battery with reduced resistance, higher power, and quicker charge/discharge cycles. Simply put, Honda achieved a superior battery design.
The new energy store debuted at Spa in 2021, ahead of its initially planned 2022 release, to aid the championship battle. This represented a significant effort by the diverse Milton Keynes team, focusing on a pivotal aspect of the Honda project's evolution.
In summary, Honda's "Extra Harvesting mode" cleverly sidesteps the 2023 regulations that capped energy recovery at 2MJ via the MGU-K. Any excess energy bypasses this limit and is directed to the batteries through the MGU-H, as there's no restriction on the energy sent from the MGU-H to the batteries.
VIA: [formu1a.uno]
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MB is already crying...not that I necessarily disagree, I'd like to see the cars shorter, narrower, and lighter.

As part of an effort by grand prix racing’s chiefs to improve overtaking, F1 switched to a ground effect rules concept from the start of the 2022 season.

But the nature of the cars means that they produce their peak downforce close to the ground – which forces teams to have to run them as low as possible, and with super stiff suspension settings.

This has left teams boxed into a corner with hard-to-manage set-ups and means drivers are left racing cars that are not much fun.




Speaking about the difference between the old rules set and this one, Allison said: “You guys [the media] used to carry on endlessly about high-rake, low-rake cars as if that was the beginning, end, and middle of everything.

“A high-rake car was around 140mm [rear ride height]. A low-rake car would be like 120mm or whatever. Well, both of them are stratospheric ranges compared with these cars.

“These are all cars that are setting off in the 60mms. There might be a few millimetres of difference between them, but they're all just on the ground.”

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PHOTO BY: STEVE ETHERINGTON / MOTORSPORT IMAGES

Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes W12

Allison suggests that the narrow operating window of the current cars leaves teams and engineers a bit too hemmed in in terms of what they can do.

Speaking about the difference to the previous rules set, Allison said: “Well, you could have a car that was a little bit more one-dimensional at tracks that are a bit more one-dimensional. So if there isn't a big speed range, then you could maybe set your car up such that the corners coincide with where your good bit is, and you don't suffer horribly for it dropping away either side.

“But when you go to a place that's a bit more of a broad test of a car, like Austin for example, where you've got real fast stuff, some slow stuff, and some in-between stuff, and some decent straights, and some bumps, then that's going to test the bit where it's falling off the back end of the performance. It's going to test the end of straight [downforce] failure, it's going to need to stay strong in the fast [corners].


“And it's hard to persuade the car to do all of those things with a set of rules that basically don't want to do anything except be near the ground.”
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It's probably :rainbow: to bring it up but looking Lia Block in the face makes me really sad for her and her Dad, I see myself and my daughter... :emb:

I hope she makes something of this chance (I know she's not in the show yet) and it wasn't entirely a token hire.
 
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Lando is staying with McClaren.

Lando Norris has agreed to a new, long-term Formula One contract with McLaren on Friday, calling it “an easy decision.”

Norris, 24, still had two seasons to run on his previous contract through to the end of 2025, but McLaren made it a priority over the winter to advance talks and agree to an extended deal.

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The driver has been a repeated target for Red Bull throughout his F1 career, causing him to be linked as a potential teammate for Max Verstappen once his McLaren contract came to an end.

But Norris has now committed his future to McLaren, saying it was “not something I want to worry about over the next few years.”

“I’m comfortable,” Norris said. “I’m happy with where I am, the team (is) happy with me. So it’s an easy decision.”
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Hambo is going to Ferrari next year, didn't see that one coming.

As the German manufacturer comes to terms with Hamilton’s shock decision to join Ferrari from 2025, it is well aware that the new two-year deal it agreed with the seven-time champion last year had flexibility on both sides to be terminated as early as the end of this season.

It is understood that this was a compromise arrangement to give both parties a degree of movement for 2025 in case performances were not as expected through 2024.

While this meant Mercedes had the freedom it wanted to pursue another driver if it felt like it didn’t want to continue with Hamilton, equally it knew that it could lose the seven-time champion if he elected to look elsewhere.
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No mention

Poor Black Child becomes overnight success story at Ferrari

??

Enough to move RACE over 10%, down today a little.

Not sure how I feel about this.

I think a bad move for all involved

Many drivers arguably greater than Hamilton have failed spectacularly at Ferrari. This is no Schumacher situation where the team is built around him. Ferrari is built mostly towards LeClerc and btw fuck you Carlos good luck mate.

Bad for Ferrari. Just look at Hamilton /Alonso at McLaren that eventually resulted in the loss of the entire Ron Dennis culture there. One of the most successful racing cultures in history

Ferrari needs every cent it can get for development and while driver salaries do t count to the cap
 
XtremeJ said:
Not sure how I feel about this.

I think a bad move for all involved

Many drivers arguably greater than Hamilton have failed spectacularly at Ferrari. This is no Schumacher situation where the team is built around him. Ferrari is built mostly towards LeClerc and btw fuck you Carlos good luck mate
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<snip>

We are not sure about it either. It certainly was a bit of a shock to hear this news but the guy can drive. He's not Schumi but he does have an incredible following and maybe they can build a team around him. My only advice would be to stay away from the wokeness (he dipped his toe in that to much dismay).

Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) does lots of things to keep us engaged but you obviously are closer to how teams get run. At a grassroots level of motorsports there are enough egos that I can walk out of a driver's meeting without a care for the drama. I'm just here to drive fast and link clean laps :flipoff2:
 
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Mayhem.... Hamilton to Ferrari. Albon to redbull on a 3 year?? Rumor. Alonso to Mercedes and Sainz to Aston martin?? Rumor.
 
All while the FOM deny Andretti/Cadillac a spot on the grid. We'll see if they reconsider for 2026, but I doubt it
 
Hubbler said:
All while the FOM deny Andretti/Cadillac a spot on the grid. We'll see if they reconsider for 2026, but I doubt it
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Maybe long memories of Michael’s previous failure in F1.

Maybe a history of failed teams even in the last 20 years. Haas still around but clinging on (though the intent and investment from Haas has paid off in multiples from the B2B relationships and machinery sold)

Maybe just the French giving the Yankees no respect

I get the distinct feeling the FIA want Cadillac, want another American team and American drivers.

They just don’t want Andretti. For now. I am sure failing to attend the Dec meeting in Paris did not go down well but bet the decision was made before that.
 
To give Hamilton his due. He did make the move to Mercedes at exactly the right time. Perhaps he has the same intuition with this move.

Let’s be honest. Every driver wants to be a Ferrari driver. For some it is a disaster of epic proportions, for some the highlight of their careers. I cannot blame him for wanting to end his career at LaScuderia.

This cannot be about the money. This cannot be about current team potential. Or future team potential.

Interesting times ahead
 
Ferrari had a competitive car beginning of last season.
If Hamilton can keep then from doing Ferrari strategy things maybe he's got a shot. They made some interesting decisions last year.
 
Strikes me as desperation.

From my POV, I think Mercedes is more capable of beating Red Bull in the long run than Ferraril.
 
XtremeJ said:
Maybe long memories of Michael’s previous failure in F1.

Maybe a history of failed teams even in the last 20 years. Haas still around but clinging on (though the intent and investment from Haas has paid off in multiples from the B2B relationships and machinery sold)

Maybe just the French giving the Yankees no respect

I get the distinct feeling the FIA want Cadillac, want another American team and American drivers.

They just don’t want Andretti. For now. I am sure failing to attend the Dec meeting in Paris did not go down well but bet the decision was made before that.
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I agree. Did you catch Andretti's rebuttal to the missed meeting?
 
(Newish to F1)
I'm fascinated how they can make a "shitty" car then either they figure out why or not...

I'm especially more interested in this when say someone like Mercedes can't miss then can't get out of their own way and stock with a shitty car waayy too long.

Anyone have insight?
 
You are tied to the chassis that passed the crash testing process.

IF the design theory behind that chassis is off you are screwed for the whole season. With the packaging of components so tight, it can be impossible to implement a substantial redesign once the season has started

And besides you are already 6-9 months behind. Better putting that energy and budget into next season
 
Will put my nuts in a vice and be bold with these

Verstappen wins another
RedBull wins another
Carlos finishes ahead of the Clerk, despite Ferrari shenanigans
Fred finishes 3rd in championship and sneaks a win. Moves from Aston to Mercedes.
Smiley does not get Checos seat at seasons end
Lando wins coolest name for a driver for 7th consecutive season
But fails to make the top step despite a few podiums.
George hands in his notice at AMG for the more lucrative position of account for Sam Friedman
Kimi admits being the “lady” that was harassed by Christian H and loved every minute of it
Ferrari management implodes before seasons end in anticipation of having to implement DEI now that that the poor black child will be driving for them
Gunther Steiner returns on 2025 with a new team Aass and immediately outperforms his old team but Gene sells them $100 million of machines on a fixed 8 year lease. Cries all the way to the bank

Bring it on. Euro trash soap opera now for Americans courtesy of Netflix
 
Budget cap is another issue. Get it wrong and you won't necessarily be able to spend the money to fix it.
 
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