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2000 Ford F-550 Build

YotaAtieToo said:
I'd grab it, heard a lot of good about them also. What's the ratio?

I'd bet the unit is the same for 2wd or 4wd and that tube piece is the adapter. So either keep am eye out for a 4wd adapter or ditch that one and try to make your own.

Or run a divorced case behind it.

How long until you are doing the 4wd? Do you really even need it? Or just cause?
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I already have a t case in the truck. NP271 manual shift, I had them swap out the output shaft when I had the trans rebuilt and the trans builder had a fresh 271 sitting on the shelf for $300 which was a steal. I think the back case half is the difference, front the front half. It is where the yoke is.
 
06h3 said:
I already have a t case in the truck. NP271 manual shift, I had them swap out the output shaft when I had the trans rebuilt and the trans builder had a fresh 271 sitting on the shelf for $300 which was a steal. I think the back case half is the difference, front the front half. It is where the yoke is.
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You're trying to stick that behind a 271? That will be harder. 271 has different input and output splines and probably (I'd have to look a diagram) relies on having something on the output spline to keep the output bearing where it should be.

The input spline on that OD is gonna be the standard ford 31spl. You will likely have an easier time sticking that in front of the 271 than behind it.
 
Well poop

Maybe the next best route would be ditching that adapter and trying to put a yoke on the input for divorced mount.
 
I was so stoked on getting 4wd done when I had my trans out but I guess I jumped the gun.... Damn it!

The USgear OD was designed to go between the trans and t case for a 4wd unit and it just goes on the back of the trans for a 2wd unit. The difference between the 4wd and 2wd unit is the front case half (not nearly as concerned about that, its a big tube) and the back case half is different , instead of having a yoke, has an adapter for the t case. It is a 3 big unit and I think the only constant is the middle piece. I can adapt the front half the rear half seems to be the issue.
 
06h3 said:
I was so stoked on getting 4wd done when I had my trans out but I guess I jumped the gun.... Damn it!

The USgear OD was designed to go between the trans and t case for a 4wd unit and it just goes on the back of the trans for a 2wd unit. The difference between the 4wd and 2wd unit is the front case half (not nearly as concerned about that, its a big tube) and the back case half is different , instead of having a yoke, has an adapter for the t case. It is a 3 big unit and I think the only constant is the middle piece. I can adapt the front half the rear half seems to be the issue.
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I think at that point, you're better off waiting for the right one. I mean with how little you drive the truck, is it really worth the cost just to drop the RPM a bit?

Even the brownie box will get pretty expensive once you add in multiple custom driveshafts. Although it would be sweet.

I still say the 22.5s would be a good middle ground, plus you'll gain stability and capacity at the same time. In my experience, the cheap 19.5 tires don't last long at the weight you're at. You can obviously get 19.5s with plenty of capacity, but they're aren't cheap. Once you step to 22.5s I'd think any cheap tire would be plenty.

I think you could run 255/75r22.5s in the rear and something like 295/60r22.5s in the front if you don't want skinny fronts, but don't quote me on that.
 
Time up an update, I will apologize in advance that imgur wont load since a computer update so no pics, I will add them to the post when I figure it out. I logged another 1200 miles or so on the truck going to Moab and back. Before the trip I did replace the 4 rear tires with 245/70R19.5's I had no spare and I had cords starting to show on one tire. I kept one good tire as a spare.

The old tires were only rated to 75 mph. The new ones are rated to handle more weight and rated at 87 mph. The fronts are still 225's but I will replace those soon. On the way down to Moab I cruised around 73 mph which was faster then the trip to KOH. The bigger tires added just a little more top end which is nice.

The reason I went this route vs the bigger 22.5 is timing. I needed tires, I will eventually need to swap rims to 10 lug when I do the 05+ front axle and I wouldn't fit in the garage, which can be remedied long term. I have been busy and this was the path of least resistance given the circumstances.

The trip down was ok, I did have one issue and that was that the turbo boot (or coupler?) right off the turbo to the hot side intercooler pipe blew off. I did put it back on and got to Moab. The first trip to KOH it was problem free so I am not sure what happened there. I got into town, unloaded the rig and went 4 wheeling for the week. The day before I left I got a new T bolt clamp and reclamped everything down.


On the way home the actual boot tore about 200 miles in!!! It had a slit in the boot :mad3: This is a brand fucking new setup with less then 4k miles on it! I was pist. Luckily, I had a spare boot from the OBS that I cut in half long ways and wrapped around it to keep going but before I could do that I had to get over solider summit (almost 8k elevation pass) as there was no place to pull off. 19k lbs, 8k elevation and no boost was pure fucking misery, I kept EGTs in check and just hoped I did no damage to the motor.

Anyways I got it fixed and kept moving. About 40 miles from home the boot came off again! This time off the turbo (as the jerry rigged boot was holding) so I reclamped it back on and 10 miles later it came off again.

At this point I was pist and said fuck it, I unloaded my 4x4 and drove 30 miles home in that and picked up the truck the next morning. On one hand I am so thankful I was only 30 miles from home on a 550 mile journey but still fucking pist because this turbo setup is brand new and the fact that the irate boot tore before the fucking 380k mile factory boots did!

I did a google search and I did see 1 or 2 people complaining about the irate boot not holding. One guy upgraded to this one.

Hoselinx It is a reducer coupler.

So, wtf! Why did that randomly happen after it was perfectly fine for its maiden voyage in February?

I have some other questions I will get into later but we can start here :flipoff2:
 
Probably not a helpful post, but my father-in-law had similar issues with aftermarket turbo piping on his 6.0 (bulletproofed but otherwise stock). He had Sinister Diesel tubes on hot and cold side of intercooler. Worked for a couple trips then started blowing the boots off when towing. He ended up just going back to stock pieces and hasn't had issue since but probably only has about 800 miles towing since then.
 
Where did the boot slit? And this is the hot pipe boot that connects right to the turbo?

Wondering if there is an alignment problem that's causing one of the tubes to wear through the boot. I've got factory hot pipe (banks cold) and the factory hot pipe popped a boot once, but I reclamped it and it was good to go.
 
90supra said:
Probably not a helpful post, but my father-in-law had similar issues with aftermarket turbo piping on his 6.0 (bulletproofed but otherwise stock). He had Sinister Diesel tubes on hot and cold side of intercooler. Worked for a couple trips then started blowing the boots off when towing. He ended up just going back to stock pieces and hasn't had issue since but probably only has about 800 miles towing since then.
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Thanks, that is good to know that maybe this is a thing
GLTHFJ60 said:
Where did the boot slit? And this is the hot pipe boot that connects right to the turbo?

Wondering if there is an alignment problem that's causing one of the tubes to wear through the boot. I've got factory hot pipe (banks cold) and the factory hot pipe popped a boot once, but I reclamped it and it was good to go.
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It slit pretty low in the boot (close to the turbo side) and yes its the boot that goes right onto the turbo. Even if it was an alignment problem it was happening different each time. On the way there it was popping the boot off the intercooler, then it slit a hole in it then close to home it was popping off the turbo itself.
 
make sure you're running a proper aramid hot side boot
turbo outlet temperatures can easily get over 600F when you're doing stupid hot-rod shit
 
[486] said:
make sure you're running a proper aramid hot side boot
turbo outlet temperatures can easily get over 600F when you're doing stupid hot-rod shit
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I assume it is because that is what came in the kit but I will double check
 
I had a chance to look at it a little closer and I think that the 3in intercooler pipe was pushed too far into the "neckdown" causing the slit. I didnt reinstall the boot, a friend was helping as we quickly put it back together before hitting the road home.

I have a new boot here and will take my time. I also have a heavy duty boot that is thicker and better for this setup (many on the ford forum use this one for their T4 setup) on order but it is backordered for another 4 weeks. I will keep this one as a spare.

Other then that boot issue the drive was uneventful.

The 245s welcomed a little bit more speed. I do have 2 questions though, towing on different tunes and EGT's.

What is the max safe EGT I can run? I will run sustained at 1100 but try to avoid running any higher then that. On the tunes I have stayed with a heavy tow tune and a medium tow tune. I have talked to some T4 guys and they run 19k gross with bigger tunes (like pre canned PHP 100+hp tunes) towing. Is that safe? Obviously, if EGT's, oil temps and coolant temps are in check that's a start but how about cylinder pressure? It would be nice to replace one glow plug with a cylinder pressure gauge. I think they have them but they are pricey. I am not sure what other things cause issues with hotter tunes and towing. I guess the end goal is safety #1 and as much power #2.
 
Finally got imgur issues resolved....

Here are the new tires.

gv59NlEl.jpg


1FTvNjvl.jpg


After the breakdown issues I got her cleaned up and back in the garage...

cZSTieol.jpg


This may have been one thing to ease my pain with the boot issues, a new 6.7 that burned to the ground....makes me feel better about my ole shit box. LOL

0jeJ8kTl.jpg


Lastly, I had comments on the truck saying, "it looks like its bowing in the middle" I think its an optical illusion because I dont have side boxes and the height change is drastic, I cant tell. Either way, everything I have read and researched, the bed and truck are rated for the weight.
 
As far as safe max egt, hard to say. I've read 1200* for cummins engines, but no MFGs post that number as a rating AFAIK. I try to keep it under 1000* constant, but I wouldn't be too worried about 1100*. Just keep a sharp eye on it when running that hot constant, a quick jab of the throttle could push you up to 1500* pretty quick.

Which tires did you get? You like the tread pattern?

As far as being bowed in the middle, the factory chassis is rated for the weight, but did ford make that chassis that length? Or was it extended aftermarket? The frame rails should be straight from the back of the cab to the end of the frame, so it'd be easy to check if it was bowed.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
As far as safe max egt, hard to say. I've read 1200* for cummins engines, but no MFGs post that number as a rating AFAIK. I try to keep it under 1000* constant, but I wouldn't be too worried about 1100*. Just keep a sharp eye on it when running that hot constant, a quick jab of the throttle could push you up to 1500* pretty quick.

Which tires did you get? You like the tread pattern?

As far as being bowed in the middle, the factory chassis is rated for the weight, but did ford make that chassis that length? Or was it extended aftermarket? The frame rails should be straight from the back of the cab to the end of the frame, so it'd be easy to check if it was bowed.
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I definitely keep it under 1000* constant, I would hit 1100* for short bursts.

245/70R19.5 Roadmaster RM257 I like the 87 mph speed rating (old tires were 75 mph) and the additional load capacity compared to the 225's. So far on road they have been good but I dont have any bad weather testing yet which when I think they will shine.

The frame has been extended, It was a state of California owned truck so I doubt they dropped it off at some hack shop, I bet it was a high dollar place who did it right and that state likes to waste money anyways. I looked at it no cracks, everything looks straight...
 
06h3 said:
245/70R19.5 Roadmaster RM257 I like the 87 mph speed rating (old tires were 75 mph) and the additional load capacity compared to the 225's. So far on road they have been good but I dont have any bad weather testing yet which when I think they will shine.
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These tires on the factory wheels?
 
06h3 said:
I do have 2 questions though, towing on different tunes and EGT's.

What is the max safe EGT I can run? I will run sustained at 1100 but try to avoid running any higher then that. On the tunes I have stayed with a heavy tow tune and a medium tow tune. I have talked to some T4 guys and they run 19k gross with bigger tunes (like pre canned PHP 100+hp tunes) towing. Is that safe? Obviously, if EGT's, oil temps and coolant temps are in check that's a start but how about cylinder pressure? It would be nice to replace one glow plug with a cylinder pressure gauge. I think they have them but they are pricey. I am not sure what other things cause issues with hotter tunes and towing. I guess the end goal is safety #1 and as much power #2.
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So to me the EGT matters as to how fast it is rising. In other words if you increase the throttle does the egt rapidly rise or is it slow.

Then 1250 is the limit but if I have it matted and it runs up to 11XX then over the course of the climb it pulls to 1200 I'd let it eat.
If I am at half throttle at 1200 and any increase causes it to easily climb over 1300 then you better downshift, lift etc.
 
^^^^^ Same

Mine runs between 1100-1200 when towing heavy with my foot in it up a grade. 1250 is max when I ease out of it a little.
 
06h3 said:
This may have been one thing to ease my pain with the boot issues, a new 6.7 that burned to the ground....makes me feel better about my ole shit box. LOL
picture.jpg
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wow, alumiduties burn really good
 
What's funny is 7.3s have a recall for burning down.

As far as egts, I've heard it's more about the turbo than the engine. But 1250 is pretty safe.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Nailing down the timing is probably the hardest aspect of tuning these trucks. With stock nozzles, can just stick to the factory timing tables with good results, but once you start running larger nozzles and higher oil pressures, it can become a bit of a crapshoot and your results will be highly dependent on the experience of the tuner. Matt at Gearhead performance and Bill at Power Hungry Performance have contributed excellent tech to quite a few threads on some of the 7.3L diesel forums discussing the finer details of tuning 7.3Ls. I highly suggest doing some reading if you want to get a better understanding of how these engines work and how they should properly be tuned. Bill was one of the pioneers of 7.3L tuning and created the tuning software that pretty much all the 7.3L tuners use today.

Here are my cliff notes on timing:

Start of injection (SOI) which you specify in your tuning parameters does not have a constant correlation to start of combustion (SOC) which is what you are really trying to control. SOC is greatly affected by things such as engine operating temperature, ambient air temperature, intake air temperature (post intercooler), and boost levels (really the pressure in the cylinder prior to the compression stroke). Compression ratio and cam timing will also affect things, but most people don't change these parameters. Hotter temperatures and higher boost levels advance SOC, while colder temperatures and lower boost retard SOC. That is why the 7.3L has a cold advance map that will drastically advance SOI at low oil temperatures since the fuel burns much slower at low temperatures. Also, injection pulse width will play a huge role in timing at higher RPMs where the available injection window becomes shorter. High RPM is where larger nozzles really shine since they can deliver the same amount of fuel with a much shorter pulse width which allows more of the fuel to be injected at optimal timing. Optimal timing will produce the highest torque/power and the best fuel efficiency. Many people erroneously believe that the more you advance your timing the more torque you will make since cylinder pressures go up. The problem is that cylinder pressure does not necessarily correlate to torque, and the further you advance the timing beyond what is "optimal", the more "negative" work is being done. Any combustion pressure developed before TDC is doing negative work, and combustion pressures generated after TDC are doing positive work. You want your peak combustion pressure to occur after TDC in order for the engine to be able do any work. Due to crankshaft geometry, you want your peak combustion pressure to occur around 12-14º ATDC. The peak cylinder pressure increases exponentially as you advance past the optimum 12-14º ATDC point and that is what lifts heads and blows apart bottom ends. The problem is that unlike spark ignition engines, you cant precisely control when combustion starts.

Here is an excellent read on diesel timing: Diesel Timing

As alluded to earlier, the only way to really get your timing maps nailed down is to do some live tuning with a shop that is equipped to monitor cylinder pressures. I know Swamps offered this service in the past, but it is above and beyond what 99.99% of people are willing or able to do. A competent tuner and standard live tuning should be sufficient, and a very experienced tuner should be able to get you 90%+ there iterating over email.


As far as your question about what to monitor or data log, there isn't really really anything you can do to monitor timing. If your timing is too retarded, you'll see higher EGTs, the diesel "clatter" will become much more subdued/reduced, you will be down on power and get bad fuel economy. If your timing is too advanced, your engine will be very loud (very pronounced diesel clatter), and you will be down on power. Obviously being too advanced is the worse of the two scenarios. The only way to optimize timing without pressure transducers in the glow plug holes is to perform timing sweeps in your tune and iteratively test in a repeatable environment (dynamometer). The timing that makes the most power for a given amount of fuel injected will also be the most efficient.
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CarterKraft said:
'84 Bronco II Great job on that summary.

As everyone in there own separate way is suggesting is for you to learn a little about all this so you can see the engine performing correctly or not.
I sound like a broken record but there is a big difference from a empty F-250 feeling fast on main street and a F-550 grossing 28k on a 7 mile climb.
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I just reread this. First time I read it I was confused as fuck. I watched the “killing a duramax” 14 part series with Gale banks and after watching that, I reread this and it makes much more sense.

I am open to live tuning, I just need to find someone reputable. I’m on the west coast and am not opposed to driving a state or two away to get tuning done...I just need it to be done right.

with all that said, what Gale Banks can monitor on that I-dash is amazing. Does he pull crank position angle at SOC from factory pcm read data or did he rig up some kind of way to monitor that?
 
Have you considered water meth to give you piece of mind without having to slow down. Finding good tunes much less custom can be really hard. 7.3's are harder to tune than any of the common rail stuff most of your tuners are familiar with. <Many more variables, Plus all the different pcm's and hex's. Most of the "custom" tuning isnt really all that custom.
 
Levigarrett76 said:
Have you considered water meth to give you piece of mind without having to slow down. Finding good tunes much less custom can be really hard. 7.3's are harder to tune than any of the common rail stuff most of your tuners are familiar with. <Many more variables, Plus all the different pcm's and hex's. Most of the "custom" tuning isnt really all that custom.
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I know it can add power/lower EGTs. Does it lower cylinder pressure or help with SOC?
 
Levigarrett76 said:
I think it reduces in compression stroke increases in power stroke.

Cylinder pressure won't be a concern for you, aren't you running php tunes?

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I’ll read that article tonight, I am running 1023 tunes. I can’t run PHP because I am not running stock injectors.

I know this sounds crazy, but I was thinking of a way to run an ICP sensor through adapters in the glow plug to monitor cylinder pressure.
That’s what kills diesels right? Or SOI?
 
06h3 said:
I’ll read that article tonight, I am running 1023 tunes. I can’t run PHP because I am not running stock injectors.

I know this sounds crazy, but I was thinking of a way to run an ICP sensor through adapters in the glow plug to monitor cylinder pressure.
That’s what kills diesels right? Or SOI?
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To give detail on that, that would obviously be in addition to the factory ICP sensor. This would have it’s own aftermarket gauge. I figured an ICP sensor is one of the few to be able to read pressure that high
 
I don't think it'll read the pressure spikes correctly, reaction time might not be instantaneous enough

the OE solution is a piezoelectric sensor, there's a few different VW glow plugs that have them integrated, they're like a hundred bucks last I looked and you're kinda on your own making up a way to read them. I've seen one guy just using an oscilloscope, and treating it as a relative measurement, he was planning on running the timing maps up until the reading started to spike sharply, then back the timing off a bit
I don't think it went anywhere as that's a fuckton of datalogging

the way it is generally done is to reference engine torque output, as that is basically a roundabout way of reading cylinder pressure.
bump the timing until you stop gaining torque, then back off a couple degrees
another benefit of the dyno path is that you can accurately set up the torque limit maps so you don't shit the rods out the bottom when you accidentally lug it into 40 psi at 1500 rpm
 
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