1989 Jeep Cherokee 1 ton swap

[Byro]

I took it to the gas station. Brakes are spongy, steering was almost completely empty of fluid and also had tons of play, it could use some sway bars, but I drove it out of the garage.

Myself and many others will tell you the KP brakes suck.

 

[RunningProblem]

Myself and many others will tell you the KP brakes suck.

You couldn’t tell me before?

I figured it was too small of a master cylinder or something.

 

[Byro]

You couldn’t tell me before?

I figured it was too small of a master cylinder or something.

That, then you have to worry about the rubber wedges or the t-bars falling out.


This is my current brain child to alleviate all those issues.

97-07 GM 2500 rear calipers and rotors. My 1” masters run my stock rear 14b brakes great, the KP fronts have always been sponges. The piston area of the GM brakes is just a little smaller than the KP brakes. They have enough power to skid 40s with a non-boosted set up. That and I hate running 14x1.5mm in the rear and 1/2x20 in the front. The slip over rotor lets you run a regular 14x1.5 or 9/16 stud since it doesn’t require the weird knurl to hold the rotor to the back of the hub. Best part no dumbass rubber wedge or t-bar holding the caliper on.

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

Tell me more^^^^

 

[chaplinfj60]

76 Chevy blazer is the MC I use. Love It. I think 1.25 bore.

 

[RunningProblem]

76 Chevy blazer is the MC I use. Love It. I think 1.25 bore.

What booster do you run? I have the WJ booster because early on it was a great upgrade because it’s bolt in and dual diaphragm instead of single.

Byro GM 14 bolt calipers up front? Are you on a Ford kingpin or GM?

 

[Byro]

Tell me more^^^^

That’s all I have for now. I run a Willwood dual MC, I’m tired of spongey fronts, t-bars falling out etc.

What booster do you run? I have the WJ booster because early on it was a great upgrade because it’s bolt in and dual diaphragm instead of single.

Byro GM 14 bolt calipers up front? Are you on a Ford kingpin or GM?

I’m running a Ford axle, but the late model “metric” 14 bolt rear. The dual piston rear calipers seem appropriately sized to use on all 4 corners.

 

[chaplinfj60]

What booster do you run? I have the WJ booster because early on it was a great upgrade because it’s bolt in and dual diaphragm instead of single.

Byro GM 14 bolt calipers up front? Are you on a Ford kingpin or GM?

its toyota MC off landcruiser or f4runner i can not remember chevy kingpin front and using all that big brakes and half ton stuff out back,

my brakes sucked at first till i went to the chevy MC i had to adapt it to work

 

[FordFascist]

You want to shoot for a 1.25" or larger MC with power brakes and 1 ton axle stuff. Stock XJ stuff is 1" IIRC.

I'm not sure what you are running on this - but that would be a critical part of the discussion. As to the rubber wedges, those suck. If your caliper bracket isn't stretched or badly worn they will do t They shouldn't affect brake pedal feel since you are talking about a floating caliper, but if they fail your caliper jumps out of the seat and best case destroys your wheel.

There are a quite a few upgrade options these days if your calipers won't stay seated in the brackets:

Ford Dana 60 Kingpin Big Brake Brackets (17 Inch Wheel) – Torq Motorsports

torqmotorsports.com

78-91 Ford Dana 60 Disc Brake Upgrade Using 2000-10 Chevy / GMC HD Brakes

<p>Ford Kingpin Dana 60 Disc brake upgrade bracket kit allows you to use the front calipers, pads, and rotors from 00-10 GM HD trucks on the 78-91 Ford Kingpin D60 Axles.</p>

shopspeedhouse.com

KingPin Dana 60 Big Brake Bracket Kit

With the evolution of our industry we have found the stock brakes on Kingpin Dana 60 Front Axles to be inadequate at best. With the addition of larger tires, more horsepower and lower gearing we figured it was time for an upgrade! Our KingPin Dana 60 Big Brake Bracket Kits are CNC Machined in...

northwestfab.com

Ford Dana 60 3/4 Ton Brake Kit

Used to replace the troublesome Ford 1 Ton Brakes. Improved Braking Performance Increased Resistance to Brake Fade Reduced Un-sprung Weight Increased Clearance for your Wheels Improved Brake Pedal Feel Simplified Maintenance

craneaxle.com

Ford Dana 60 Front Disc Brake Conversion SWAP KIT

CNC laser cut & formed from 3/8" high steel Utilizes '73 - '87 3/4 ton 4x4 front calipers (RC4072 & RC4071) and rotors (5014R) Sold as a pair (2 brackets) Fits 78-91 Ford King Pin Dana 60, single wheel

www.tmrcustoms.com

 

[RunningProblem]

FordFascist Disc front. Drum rear. Stock XJ master. WJ booster. I don’t know what rubber wedges you guys are talking about. Mine has some metal tabs that hold them to the bracket.

I’ll check out those upgrades you linked. Would have been GREAT to k ow before I bought new ford calipers a little while ago.

 

[chaplinfj60]

i think my MC was well under 50 bucks, there are many of them that are 1.25 bore thats a cheap route to try.

 

[RunningProblem]

I tried using the Durango booster and rounded out the stud Joel’s but it doesn’t fit. I forget why right now. I have t found anyone upgrading the WJ master either. This is all one off stuff.

 

[FordFascist]

Those are the rubber inserts everyone is talking about. If your calipers are tight in the caliper brakets, there's no action to take. The issue is that the brackets oblong from wear or abuse and the inserts can't take up enough space to keep the calipers from flopping around. Also the rubber tends to degrade and then these fall out. Not a big deal if you just replaced them and they are tight.

As for the master cylinder bore, that's what is suspect. The XJ has a 15/16" bore which is way too small. I would do some searches about what larger bore master fits the WJ booster. I would suspect that a Dodge 2500 MC of a similar era may fit, but that may require some research to confirm.



This video says it's from a 99 2500 Dodge Van
1988 Econoline 350 also fit with minor modification (1.13" bore)
2000 Durango (1.13" bore) - said to be a direct bolt in
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../1874/automotive-suv-2000-dodge-durango?pos=0

 

[RunningProblem]

I think the difference is they’re using the 96 XJ Booster and I have the WJ. I thought I went through a few measurements before this whole thing, but maybe I just had ideas floating around. I’ll look into it more starting with the stud mount width then the diameter of the part going into the booster.


Edit: I may need to remove the WJ booster and figure out the XJ booster for the Dodge MC to work.

 

[RunningProblem]

"Today I learned"...

I THOUGHT I'd be able to swap out a Ram 2500 master cylinder. I can't. The bolt hole spacing on a WJ/ZJ dual diaphragm brake booster is about 3.5" and the Ram 2500 master is 3". If this wasn't enough, the center bore of the WJ brake booster is LARGER than the Ram master. Plus the WJ brake booster doesn't have a threaded rod I could extend.

So even the Dodge Dakota brake booster I just drilled apart trying to make fit won't work. The Dakota has about an extra 1/2 long rod to push the master. With the WJ booster I would either need to get some really strong small diameter rod to put in the booster to then push the master cylinder OR cram a bunch of random shit into the Dakota master cylinder and hope it doesn't fall out of place so the shorter rod of the WJ brake booster would give me brakes.

I'm sticking with the stock 2004 WJ brake booster and master cylinder. The internet says the WJ booster is a 1" bore. I'd still like a longer master cylinder so I could have more pressure for the disc brakes up front. This should be interesting when I go to stop the first or second time. The WJ is shorter than the Dakota, which is shorter than the Ram 2500. Waste of a few hours THIS was, and my goal was to get the Ram 2500 master installed so I could position the driver side shock tower instead of installing the tower, then screwing myself on the master. Oh and the Dakota won't fit in the WJ booster because the diameter increases in the last 1/2" so it won't sit into the booster fully. I really did consider putting a bunch of nuts and washers on the studs, silicone around the master, and giving it a whirl. I decided not to be so ghetto. Hopefully this thing can stop itself with two quick pumps.

Dakota on top
Ram 2500 on bottom.

Dakota mounting holes drilled out to 1/2” fit SNUG over the WJ studs. From the end of the rod to the inside it is about 2.125”. You can also see the larger diameter towards the end that doesn’t allow it to fit into the WJ booster.

Ram 2500. It measures less than 1” deep. Center to center is too small to fit on the WJ booster. It’s 1.75” diameter. The Dakota is 1.5”.


I think the Ram 2500 length would have been a SLIGHT problem with the shock tower location. It definitely would require new lines with new flares.

Previous work

 

[RunningProblem]

Maybe this will work for me. Pulled from Pirate WJ/XJ/MJ brake upgrade thread page 6.

1995 Xj brake booster and prop valve
1998 Dodge Ram 1500 master. Research says this is the same as the 2500 everyone ran. 1.25” bore. Research says I need to extend the pushrod in the booster, and the booster should bolt in after I make the pedal hole larger and flat on the pedal side.

 

[FordFascist]

Maybe this will work for me. Pulled from Pirate WJ/XJ/MJ brake upgrade thread page 6.

1995 Xj brake booster and prop valve
1998 Dodge Ram 1500 master. Research says this is the same as the 2500 everyone ran. 1.25” bore. Research says I need to extend the pushrod in the booster, and the booster should bolt in after I make the pedal hole larger and flat on the pedal side.

Your brakes will feel far more normal after you install this.

 

[LScout800]

chaplinfj60 no disrespect taken. I know most people jump into build threads to help, or learn. Just tryin to document as much as possible in case someone else wants to one ton swap a 1989 cherokee with a Rusty’s 3 link instead of a better full link front and rear kit.

The ‘stop and let shit cool’ definitely helped. I realized I have all the time in the world to get it down.
Downhill looks prettier. Uphill gets better penetration. It’s a balance.
Clean for sure. This ‘weld through primer’ shit SUUUUUUUCKS.
I do need to buy a new lens cover.
Being small (5’8”) and having this up on Jack stands works well. I also try to prop myself up so I don’t burn my hands with the heat. The welding has improved/gotten worse/improved over time on this. Under that downhill weld is probably a 1/8” gap I couldn’t make any better.

One thing that helps too is to turn your inductance up if it has that option. Gives you a faster freezing puddle, helps a lot of thinner stuff and overhead.

 

[RunningProblem]

Your brakes will feel far more normal after you install this.

I’m SOOOOOO looking forward to this.











It fits. Master leans back 15 degrees and I have a finger above the shock tower. The clearance with the shock tower was always my biggest concern. The WJ Grand Cherokee booster was great for what it was. This is (hopefully) much better and I’m lucky it all fits. Hood even closes.

The previous vacuum booster made contact with the metal lip coming off the firewall. This one doesn’t.
I’m NOT using the spacer in this photo either.

I need to make new brake lines to the proportioning valve. The MC is bubble flare just like the last one (possibly XJ. Possible WJ). The lines are just too short to reuse. I might be able to reuse the fittings though.


I still need to grind down the rod so the brake light switch works. This is going to be an ‘install/remove/grind/repeat’ process.

 

[RunningProblem]

Old vs new

If I remember correctly from the mounting point of the booster to the edge of the master is about 14 1/2”. It’s much longer than what WAS there even with it sitting flush. I’m REALLY glad I moved the shock towers as far down as I did. I’d be screwed and have to do some type of tube to mount them if this didn’t fit.

 

[RunningProblem]

Lines from the master to the prop valve made using a spare set of Grand Cherokee lines I had. I had to flare the prop side and just did the best I could to route lines. This will all have to come out so I can bleed the master, extend the push rod, and grid down the pedal attachment (also bore it out) BUT it feels good knowing the lines are made. The rest is just work.

Stock grand Cherokee lines come with the flexible section and you can twist the tubing on both sides a full 360 degrees. I think I ended up putting the stock rear line up front and front in back to get the flexible section where I thought it would work best.

I tried to get fancy and bend the one line away from the other. I ended up putting the factory plastic clips on where the lines are closest to keep anything bad from happening.

 

[fl0w3n]

Gunhand1 says he bolted up a dodge 2500 van MC, maybe the van part was the difference?

 

[RunningProblem]

Gunhand1 says he bolted up a dodge 2500 van MC, maybe the van part was the difference?

I think one is ABS snd one is non-abs.

edit: also, I think my problem was the WJ brake booster stud spacing. It’s wider than anything else, and probably why no one uses it except stock keep guys looking for upgrades on Ford 8.8 axles.

 

[RunningProblem]

Brakes bled. Master and booster installed. Tested it around the block and it’s absolutely different. A lot more force required to stop, and I guess I was expecting something much better after reading ‘it will lock up 38s’ because I’m on 35s and it won’t. Maybe I need to dic with the prop valve. Maybe I need to drive faster. Either way, it’s 500% better than hitting the brakes and wondering where they are. I now feel somewhat confident about driving it in public. Once I align the tires.

I even think I’m lucky enough to have a functioning brake light. Only on one side though. Maybe a bulb burned out on the other side.


Oh and it is either LOW on antifreeze, or it runs that damn hot.

 

[RunningProblem]

I also discovered my 35s rub at full lock just like the 33s I had BEFORE this swap did. I don’t know how this will impact the 40s. I think they sit out further. These are just some Dodge Ram wheels I bought for swapping the rear. Maybe I’ll wheel with them around town.

My speedometer didn’t work. Seems odd but maybe I did something with the cable. Maybe it broke.

 

[FordFascist]

Brakes bled. Master and booster installed. Tested it around the block and it’s absolutely different. A lot more force required to stop, and I guess I was expecting something much better after reading ‘it will lock up 38s’ because I’m on 35s and it won’t. Maybe I need to dic with the prop valve. Maybe I need to drive faster. Either way, it’s 500% better than hitting the brakes and wondering where they are. I now feel somewhat confident about driving it in public. Once I align the tires.

I even think I’m lucky enough to have a functioning brake light. Only on one side though. Maybe a bulb burned out on the other side.


Oh and it is either LOW on antifreeze, or it runs that damn hot.

Did you bed in the rotors yet? You have to get a couple of fast stops in before the pads bed to the rotor. Get that thing up to speed on Veterans (45+) and give it a few hard brake applications and that should do the job.

Back the proportioning valve all the way off (for full rear brake bias) and only increase if you are having the rears lock up.

 

[RunningProblem]

I haven’t bed the rotors. Just cruise around the block a few times at about 15-20 and stomped on the brakes.

You assume I know how a proportioning valve even works. When I first put the rears in there I had to adjust the drums so they’d actually do something. Kind of fun coming down Toll Road without rear brakes. OOPS


Edit: VETERANS??!!?!? You fucking CRAZY?!!?! I’m not sure it’s safe to be on Veterans until I maybe align it. I should do Western Skies. MUCH better option for high speed passes in something I built.

 

[FordFascist]

I haven’t bed the rotors. Just cruise around the block a few times at about 15-20 and stomped on the brakes.

You assume I know how a proportioning valve even works. When I first put the rears in there I had to adjust the drums so they’d actually do something. Kind of fun coming down Toll Road without rear brakes. OOPS


Edit: VETERANS??!!?!? You fucking CRAZY?!!?! I’m not sure it’s safe to be on Veterans until I maybe align it. I should do Western Skies. MUCH better option for high speed passes in something I built.

Let me know when you're on Western Skies and I'll be out there with a fire extinguisher.

 

[RunningProblem]

Let me know when you're on Western Skies and I'll be out there with a fire extinguisher.

I was out there around 4:45pm today.

 

[FordFascist]

RunningProblem - Well there was no fire back there. 1000 stalker points.