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1940 Cincinnati No 2 High Speed Vertical Mill Partial Refurb and Repairs

Good luck with that jigsaw puzzle! Do you at least know the model of the lathe so that you can find some reference pictures on the internet? You're a brave soul there.

So I took your advice and browsed around and found a decent Crest US Cleaner for a reasonable price and will be picking it up over the holidays; guy said he used it a few times to clean some vintage radio parts. I asked if he had ever run it with out it being full, and he said never, it says in big letters not to operate unless full to the fill line. So, hopefully its in good working order.


So I saw where a guy was using glass jars with whatever solution in those and just weighting the tops to hold it in the basket and then was just using straight water in the US cleaner; that way he doesn't have to keep cleaning the cleaner and cycling through various solutions. I'm sure the glass absorbs some sound waves or changes the frequency though so not sure how much it may change the efficiency of the machine. Worth a try though.
Nope, no reference pictures, manuals or diagrams, none that I could ever find anyways. Rivett was a competitor to hardinge and didn't last as long before going under, but this is their 918 turret lathe, similar to a hardinge DV59. I did get it back together though, had to make a few new parts, but I finally got it back together and it actuates correctly. Think I only had one leftover piece lol

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I think you'll be happy with the purchase, my under is crest is one of the best. How big of a tank is it? Mine is long, skinny and deep, a more square tank would be nice. Should be some videos online of the foil test, basically fill it with water and run it with a piece of tinfoil in it. Should beat up the foil pretty good and maybe poke holes in it if functioning correctly.

The glass jar trick works great too, I do it all the time and it seems just as effective and it really helps not use so much cleaner.
 
Thats a heck of a project to put back together without knowing where things came from. Test of patience indeed.
The glass jar trick works great too, I do it all the time and it seems just as effective and it really helps not use so much cleaner.
So I only got to run the machine for a few minutes over the weekend because the power was out here for several days. I am literally, the very last transformer on one of the largest and longest circuits in Virginia, so if a mouse farts in a 40 mile radius, my power goes out.

Ran the counterweight gears and the feed rack gear for 15 minutes in a gallon glass pickle jar full of Jet A and they cleaned up fair. Definitely not bad for literally just drop in, push button, wait 15 min and fish out with needle nose.

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Some pinion teeth still stuck in the rack...

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I ordered my generic blank pinion gear, some gib-lock keys, a piece of blank rack gear to match the pinion gear pitch, and a decent micro-grain carbide bit for turning the old trash teeth off of the existing pinion. Would it be wise to heat it with the torch and anneal it some? It should make machining it a little easier and I am uncertain if they through hardened the entire pinion shaft or if it was just the teeth. The rack material must have supposed to have been the softer sacrificial component, which makes sense because it can be replaced without taking the head off, just have to remove one of the gib covers. Its a fairly soft material too. The lifting tang for the chain link is a pressed in tapered pin so I found a #10 pin reamer on eBay and hopefully I can machine that right. Luckily the rack order was a min of 2 feet so I am going to try and do that machine trick first.

Also, back earlier I picked up that Wilton Air/Hydro vise from a buddy... I finally got around to running that in my tub of evapo-rust and it cleaned up nice. I need to pick up some jaws for it; they're damn pricey on McMaster, anyone got another source?

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The lifting tang for the chain link is a pressed in tapered pin so I found a #10 pin reamer on eBay and hopefully I can machine that right.
If you need any more tapered pins or reamers, shoot me the sizes before you buy. I have a pile of pins and and a full set of reamers and them some that I've acquired over the years.

Tip on reaming - check your depth often and creep up on it slowly. With tapers it seems like you can go from way too small to oversized in a couple revs.

On the vice jaws, what's the width and hole spacing? Are the holes threaded for a retaining bolt or?

Aaron Z

With any luck they're the same pattern as the Kurt ones you can buy in bulk on ebay.

If you're ok with soft jaws, just pick up a chunk of 1x2 aluminum and make a few sets.
 
On the vice jaws, what's the width and hole spacing? Are the holes threaded for a retaining bolt or?

Aaron Z

Jaws are 6" wide. Holes are through and counter-bored on outside faces for SCS which would make the jaws themselves threaded. The hole spacing is 3.850" according to the dims the GF got for me today.

If you need any more tapered pins or reamers, shoot me the sizes before you buy. I have a pile of pins and and a full set of reamers and them some that I've acquired over the years.

Tip on reaming - check your depth often and creep up on it slowly. With tapers it seems like you can go from way too small to oversized in a couple revs.



With any luck they're the same pattern as the Kurt ones you can buy in bulk on ebay.

If you're ok with soft jaws, just pick up a chunk of 1x2 aluminum and make a few sets.

I thought I was going to buy a full set of 0 - 10 taper pin reamers this morning. Found them on eBay last night, added to cart but decided to sleep on it. Woke up this morning and they had been changed to a listing for some weird plastic mud-flaps. My guess is they sold local and the seller just re-used the listing. eBay probably told them it was in my shopping cart and to send an offer and they realized "crap, that's already sold".

I'll definitely let ya know if I find myself looking for some other sizes. Do you have any interest or need for an MT-4 reamer? I have an extra few from a lot I bought a while back. Also have some 1" per foot reamers too that are in surplus as well as about a billion 1" straight reamers. (29 to be exact).

As for the jaws, the height of the holes is way low. The center is at like .5125" vs the .940 that the Kurt jaws use. Also looks like I need to thread them for 1/2" SCS. Picking up some AL blocks will be my best bet no doubt.
 
Jaws are 6" wide. Holes are through and counter-bored on outside faces for SCS which would make the jaws themselves threaded. The hole spacing is 3.850" according to the dims the GF got for me today.



I thought I was going to buy a full set of 0 - 10 taper pin reamers this morning. Found them on eBay last night, added to cart but decided to sleep on it. Woke up this morning and they had been changed to a listing for some weird plastic mud-flaps. My guess is they sold local and the seller just re-used the listing. eBay probably told them it was in my shopping cart and to send an offer and they realized "crap, that's already sold".

I'll definitely let ya know if I find myself looking for some other sizes. Do you have any interest or need for an MT-4 reamer? I have an extra few from a lot I bought a while back. Also have some 1" per foot reamers too that are in surplus as well as about a billion 1" straight reamers. (29 to be exact).

As for the jaws, the height of the holes is way low. The center is at like .5125" vs the .940 that the Kurt jaws use. Also looks like I need to thread them for 1/2" SCS. Picking up some AL blocks will be my best bet no doubt.


Oh, I have reamers for days. Probably none are sizes that I'll actually ever need, but I have plenty! At some point I should try to catalog and label them and figure out what the tapers are. Most of these came from auction lots are a shop sale. Pretty much free after the other crap I sold from the lots.
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These all came from an auction lot I won a couple weeks ago. These are a little more in the size range I might need some day.
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Can't find it at the moment, but I do have a wood case with what I believe is a full set of taper pin reamers.

This is all stuff that I have literally nothing in to so if an IBB member needs a particular size, I'm happy to give, lend, trade, etc.


We really need to set up a southeast IBB swap meet :laughing:
 
Oh, I have reamers for days. Probably none are sizes that I'll actually ever need, but I have plenty! At some point I should try to catalog and label them and figure out what the tapers are. Most of these came from auction lots are a shop sale. Pretty much free after the other crap I sold from the lots.

These all came from an auction lot I won a couple weeks ago. These are a little more in the size range I might need some day.

Can't find it at the moment, but I do have a wood case with what I believe is a full set of taper pin reamers.

This is all stuff that I have literally nothing in to so if an IBB member needs a particular size, I'm happy to give, lend, trade, etc.

We really need to set up a southeast IBB swap meet :laughing:

Dude, I thought I had a hoard of reamers, but that takes the cake. However, it is nice to have a lot of options. I was tinkering with installing a diamond finish wheel on the opposite side of my Sterling drill grinder and the shaft was more than 1/2". In the boxes and boxes of reamers I have was a 0.5010" and just that little bit of love let the weird little bushing I made slide perfectly onto the motor shaft and run as true as true can be. I have random sizes when they get over 1" and the biggest is a 2.5" with an MT5... which I don't own anything that will take that. It was in an auction lot and is just cool.

I'd be down for some tooling swap meet thing. I've got random stuff and am always looking for random stuff.


Back to this thread, and the folks that seem responsive in here can probably give me good guidance.

In regards to installing the new gear onto the old shaft. I am going to bore out the gear blank to around 1-1/8" and then hopefully turn down the existing shaft to a press fit diameter.
I can't decide if its worth setting up the E-head for the Bridgeport to cut the keyway, or if I should just use some of the random broaching tooling I have floating around. I have a brand new dumont key cutter for the key size I have, so I may go that way too and then when I mill the key-seat into the shaft, adjust my depth to get a good tight fit.

If the above plan is reasonable, how fat should I have the shaft in order to get a good press fit? I don't have dry ice available but can throw the shaft in the freezer and can heat the gear with a torch to help some.
If I am targeting a 1.125" ID on the gear, what would a good press fit clearance be? I am using a tapered key but would prefer it to not be what retains the gear on the shaft as the hand wheel engagement on the drive box actually pulls axially against the gear to lock the automatic feed in from the hand feed system.

I ground the remaining teeth off of the old shaft just to be a little bit nicer to my lathe tooling. I have been down and out from a Kidney thing over the past two weeks and can't swap my 4 jaw chuck onto my lathe until I get this stent removed so its been light bench work in the meantime.

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I'll end up turning the extra hub off of the new gear once things are ready to assemble. For now it gives a good spot to chuck for boring.

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Dude, I thought I had a hoard of reamers, but that takes the cake. However, it is nice to have a lot of options. I was tinkering with installing a diamond finish wheel on the opposite side of my Sterling drill grinder and the shaft was more than 1/2". In the boxes and boxes of reamers I have was a 0.5010" and just that little bit of love let the weird little bushing I made slide perfectly onto the motor shaft and run as true as true can be. I have random sizes when they get over 1" and the biggest is a 2.5" with an MT5... which I don't own anything that will take that. It was in an auction lot and is just cool.

I'd be down for some tooling swap meet thing. I've got random stuff and am always looking for random stuff.


Back to this thread, and the folks that seem responsive in here can probably give me good guidance.

In regards to installing the new gear onto the old shaft. I am going to bore out the gear blank to around 1-1/8" and then hopefully turn down the existing shaft to a press fit diameter.
I can't decide if its worth setting up the E-head for the Bridgeport to cut the keyway, or if I should just use some of the random broaching tooling I have floating around. I have a brand new dumont key cutter for the key size I have, so I may go that way too and then when I mill the key-seat into the shaft, adjust my depth to get a good tight fit.

If the above plan is reasonable, how fat should I have the shaft in order to get a good press fit? I don't have dry ice available but can throw the shaft in the freezer and can heat the gear with a torch to help some.
If I am targeting a 1.125" ID on the gear, what would a good press fit clearance be? I am using a tapered key but would prefer it to not be what retains the gear on the shaft as the hand wheel engagement on the drive box actually pulls axially against the gear to lock the automatic feed in from the hand feed system.

I ground the remaining teeth off of the old shaft just to be a little bit nicer to my lathe tooling. I have been down and out from a Kidney thing over the past two weeks and can't swap my 4 jaw chuck onto my lathe until I get this stent removed so its been light bench work in the meantime.

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I'll end up turning the extra hub off of the new gear once things are ready to assemble. For now it gives a good spot to chuck for boring.

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Any way to know if that key is strong enough to transfer the power?
I am prolly over thinking this...
 
Any way to know if that key is strong enough to transfer the power?
I am prolly over thinking this...
I did some rough calcs while I was drubbed on the couch last week.
Some of my chicken scratch numbers I came up with using the head weight of ~ 350 lbs (because tooling spindle, etc)
Using those numbers, negating the counterweights and using a 1" radius applied to the teeth (2" diameter gear) I just started with a basline factor of 350 in lbs of torque on the drive x 1 head unit.

The rough math with a 1" long x 3/8" key gave me 586 psi of force on the key seat face. The shear capacity of the assumed 1144 shaft and gearing is 30,000 psi (a rough number based on the 1940 Machinery's Handbook). The shear plane at its most reduced form of the inner shaft segment placed in load is 1" long (key length) x .375" (sheared segment width) = 0.375" Area... at 30ksi, that gives me 11,250 lbs of shear force to break the inner radius of the pinion shaft off... or 19x the head weight without regard of the counterweights or gib friction. Thats 6,650 lbs of lifting force.

I think the teeth on the pinion will still be my weak point given their cross section area is notably smaller than the key seat shear area, especially without any confining forces and the eccentric forces placed on the teeth by the rack.
 
I did some rough calcs while I was drubbed on the couch last week.
Some of my chicken scratch numbers I came up with using the head weight of ~ 350 lbs (because tooling spindle, etc)
Using those numbers, negating the counterweights and using a 1" radius applied to the teeth (2" diameter gear) I just started with a basline factor of 350 in lbs of torque on the drive x 1 head unit.

The rough math with a 1" long x 3/8" key gave me 586 psi of force on the key seat face. The shear capacity of the assumed 1144 shaft and gearing is 30,000 psi (a rough number based on the 1940 Machinery's Handbook). The shear plane at its most reduced form of the inner shaft segment placed in load is 1" long (key length) x .375" (sheared segment width) = 0.375" Area... at 30ksi, that gives me 11,250 lbs of shear force to break the inner radius of the pinion shaft off... or 19x the head weight without regard of the counterweights or gib friction. Thats 6,650 lbs of lifting force.

I think the teeth on the pinion will still be my weak point given their cross section area is notably smaller than the key seat shear area, especially without any confining forces and the eccentric forces placed on the teeth by the rack.
Fucking awesome example of show your work:smokin:
I are not smart enough fact check you but I would agree that is plenty.

I initially had the thought that the rack could be waterjet cut aka Fireball tool style but your plan is probably better with off the shelf replaceable parts.
 
Finally got my life back together enough to find some time and energy to work on this thing; had some stupid health stuff at the end of the year and the past 3 weeks that have kept me out of the shop.

Got the pinion gear bored, hub parted off, and I made a broach guide (didn't have one for this key cutter) and knocked out a keyway. Ground all the teeth off of the old pinion and then turned it down to where it should be a press fit to get the new gear on and then the key just helps transfer some torque.


Stock gear after boring out to 1" and parting off the extra hub. Put a shallow starter taper on it to help with pressing it on, similar to the inside of a taper bearing cone.

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Got to use my 20T double column gear reduction Arbor press to drive the broach. Worked out perfect using a piece of 2" DOM that was just longer than the cutter. I'm also in the middle of re-organizing my shorter material stock, so disregard the mess.

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Pinion gear ground down and new gear.
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Still need to cut the key seat in the pinion gear and press it all together and drive the key in place. May even TIG tack the whole thing in place too, just for good measure.
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That arbor press is sweet. What brand? Atlas? Greenerd? or?..
 
That arbor press is sweet. What brand? Atlas? Greenerd? or?..
Its an Atlas. Its the No 28 model with the double ratchet in the gear head. Pat date cast into it is 1912. No idea how long or how many they made.

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Got a little more work done on the pinion gear assembly. The key is tapered in hopes that it won't want to walk out but I am still going to throw a few TIG tacks on this thing as the press fit is not enough for my liking. The key also has a tab on it that can be used to insert a prying device behind it to pul it out. I set the thing up with a piece of tubing and rapped on it with a hammer and was able to motivate the whole thing to slide axially still.

That old pinion gear was hard AF to turn and mill. Using good carbide it still was not happy.

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Now, I need to start machining the rack and such to bolt back in place with the right lash depth. Ohhh boy.
I think what I need to do next is clean up the head and get it back in placed behind the gibs and such and then get some measurements from the pinion installed.

I actually want to pull the whole feed box off the side first though so that I can re-seal that and fix that oiling feed tube. Next weekend when I have some help around I'll mess with that.

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A few things in life have kicked me off track for getting this machine put back together; gall bladder removal, and crazy work schedule, along with taking care of some things at the family farm.

Since I found my Colchester Triumph 15x48 in 2015, I became aware of its biggest sibling, the Mascot, and the various versions of it. I wanted to find one and casually looked even though I didn't have room for it until I moved into my new place in 2020. Anyways, I caught an auction back in December just as it was closing and scrambled to get registered and bidding on a very nice one but just couldn't get myself to play hardball with the other two that were battling it out. It was better off that I didn't just because I ended up in the hospital for a few days when I should have been 6 hrs away picking up the machine, if I had won it. Did some heavier searching and found one a bit too far from home, but F-it. Go for what you want in life.

Made a deal with the seller and on good faith but in the sake of needing the cash and space, I turned around and sold my 15x48 and delivered it last weekend to a friend of a friend.

Delivering the Triumph and a pic of it in place at the buyer's garage / shop.
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The GF is always down for a road trip if we can make it an adventure. So we got a hotel right on the lake and did some bar hopping the night we got up there, and then turned back south to snag the machine

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Also, a few years ago I had found a "Student" gap bed, 12x36 for my dad. It was in rough shape, sitting in a leaking container and after weighing it recently I realized that I actually paid less than scrap for it so hey... But oof, rough little bugger. I never bothered getting it running and my dad was too busy to mess with it either. Well, grandfather passed away so my dad ended up with a similar size Jet and a mill drill so he's content for his basement shop needs. I've decided that instead of doing everything big and small on the 15x48, I'll have the near smallest of the round head series Colchester lathes (smallest was the Chipmaster) and I'll now have the largest of the series too, in the fancy export model too.

Cleaning up the poor neglected student. Mostly just flash rust, mildew, and chipping paint. No pitting or anything found so far and everything has freed up except the matrix clutch linkages but its just a matter of time.

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So now its getting the shop rearranged, getting these machines fired up, and then back at the Cinci. I am relocating the Bridgeport in the shop space too. Ohh well. Cool toys are cool.

Oh, and he sold me a bandsaw for a fair price too. Dude had a ton of stuff.

So here is the new machine, leaving the yard on Sunday morning before the 510 mile drive home.
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Ohh, so for Clarification, its a 1965 Colchester Clausing (import sale from England) Mascot but sold as the C17 Mammoth in the USA.
Its an 8 HP, 16 speed, 17" swing over the bed but 9-1/2" removable gap that allows a 29" swing. 78" between centers but the later machines were sold as 80" because if you overhang the tailstock a touch, it will still clamp and give you well over 80". Has a 3-1/8" through spindle bore and is an L2 taper. 5MT in the nose bore and 4MT in the tailstock. Has a telescoping and reposition able factory taper attachment and it also came with a Colchester branded tool post grinder. The bed ways do sadly look like it has seen some time with the grinder. I am hoping they aren't too bad though. I haven't really gotten a good chance to look it over yet.

The yellow strap was a suggestion of the seller for the "sake of the local guys who think they are DOT" It wasn't doing a damn thing.
Hauled it all 560 miles home without any issue or anything moving.

Unloading it might be a challenge. T190 skid is not rated for the 5k lbs the machine paperwork says it weighs. Hoping the T190 and the X331mini can lift together. Might be a good :homer: moment.
 
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WTH...

Actually decided to work on this pile again. I have had like 3 things come through the shop now where having the Cinci up would have been nice and instead I had to do them on my little little M Head Bridgeport.

So used that same Bridgeport to work on getting the rack gear built. Off the shelf rack section and a piece of 1.5" x 1" 1018. I still need to fit up the head and get the correct thickness for this spacer block so that I can get my gear mesh right with the two new pieces. Thats why the screws are countersunk so deep; not exactly sure how much I need to take off yet. And yes, I cleaned all the swarf out of the threaded mounting holes.

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The mill that builds itself.
The Cinci is in a bazillion pieces and I am using the little tiny Bridgeport to make the repair parts.

As a recap, this thing was found not running and partially disassembled when I showed up to buy it, after driving 13 hours... none of which was conveyed prior to the situation and even on the phone the seller said "I saw it under power in the shop I bought it from". Given that the bottom spindle bearing was missing, I wager that the shop he bought it from robbed it of parts over a few years after the head feed was wrecked. They cobbled it back together enough to auction it to him and list it "under power" because it probably did in fact turn on and maybe even the sellers didn't know that someone had stolen the bottom spindle bearing out of it and put it back together. The bearing on AZN is currently $1,300.00 so I get it if they had another machine that needed one (the hz machines use the same one).

When I took this thing apart, the upper bearing cap wasn't really even threaded on, just a half a turn or so. The dust cap was holding things in place and the upper bearing doesn't really control the spindle thrust anyways so there was no way to tell other than climbing on a ladder and seeing that the dust cap had been removed based on the tool marks in the grime and this is why the spindle nut was not threaded on...

It looks like the person who pulled it apart didn't remove the locking key and just drove the spindle out. The photo below is AFTER I cleaned up the upper threads with a 60 degree thread file. The lower segment is work hardened it appears as the file is just like "nah, not cutting that". You can see the one line across the key mill where I was trying to get it to cut. I'm debating on whether to just burr bit the section of bad threads out entirely or to put the whole spindle in the Mascot lathe and try to chase it with a few light passes. That would clean them all up along the length.

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After pulling 20 lbs of grease out of this head. Still need to clean up the ways on it.



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Went to work on this thing some on Friday evening and opened another can of worms, but it was a blessing in disguise / happy accident / laugh at myself situation in the end.

I wanted to clean up the threads on the top bearing section of the Cinci spindle shaft; to do so I figured I'd set the thing in the lathe and use the "thread pickup" method by timing the compound and the lead screw. I was excited to use my new to me Mascot for a real project as it was justification of having this "big to me" lathe. When I got the lathe up and running about 2 months ago, I ran a few test passes with the lead screw but never really threaded anything. The detent wasn't working and the half nut felt weird but I didn't think much of it. The lead screw shaft itself was very dirty and didn't appear worn much.

I set the spindle up in the machine, found my TPI, set the quick change box and set the rpm to low and slow so that I could adjust in to try and track the thread. Got everything moving along and when I engaged the half nut and watched the threads but things seemed wrong. The feed was not tracking the threads. So I rechecked the thread count, checked my shift pattern, etc. The half nut lever just felt a bit funny still. I went after it again and as I engaged the feed I put a little more force into it. The carriage jumped for a second and then nothing was moving. I couldn't get the half nut out now and shut it all down. Went to mess with it and no power to the lead screw out of the gearbox. I also then noticed there was no power at all coming out of the feed box. Uh oh.

Started testing and tearing things down to discover that there was no drive coming out of the headstock to the change gears on the back of the machine feeding the feed box. Turns out, there is a shear key in the output that is a safety device. The manual indicated that it is just a piece of 3/16" drill rod and to only use that. It was in fact sheared. I was concerned of why it failed though and as I tested the lead screw and carriage it was apparent that the lead screw and half nut were binding.

So, mid project, tear down the lathe and see what was going with the lead screw and half nut. - Well, I haven't been this stained from nasty ass grease as I was by the time this was apart. Someone had used an entire bucket of grease under the apron on this thing and it had packed the half nut so full of swarf and debris that the half nut was only riding on the top of the threads and it appeared that someone had crashed / stripped the outer limits of it. The lead screw was actually pretty gross as well, and I should have cleaned it better upon my initial setup. I pulled that all the way out, took it and soaked it, pressure washed it, and then reassembled everything. From a previous user trying to force the half nut closed, the cam rod had also pushed back and was then applying a weird sideways pressure to the engagement process also. Put it all back together and it was night and day difference. While I had it all apart I also cleaned up the rest of the components inside the apron since there was this pack of nasty black grease and swarf in it. Cut off the end of an old 3/16" drill bit and fixed the shear key situation too.

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So happy fix right... back to the original problem... it still wasn't feeding right. 10 TPI... I had is shifted into that position, but watching the feed and trying to pick up a thread, it kept falling behind. Then I was thinking is the leadscrew that worn? Is something still wrong?

As I stare at the feed range box, I notice that the range I am in for 10 TPI, is also the same handle position for another series of feeds... but it says "when using 36T change gear"... BIG DUMMY! I count the teeth on the driven gear going into the feed box and its 36T. Uggh. I switch it around and install the 42T gear and ta da, getting 10 TPI and the threading tool is following the threads just fine now. I am glad I discovered this issue in this way because my dumb assumptive ass would have made a part from scratch, single point threaded it, and then not understand why the pitch was so wrong. How many times would I have remade the part before I thought the check the change gear. My other previous lathes only needed the change gear to switch to metric threading and then I just used the reverse since they didn't have a metric threading dial.

So fix all of that above, then I chased and fix the threads and promptly crash the tool into the bearing shoulder because I didn't stop the lathe in time. I need a new hobby.

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I did however get more work done on the rack gear itself and cleaned up the bearings for the spindle. The upper double Timken bearings say "Made in England" the lower bearing that was in it says Made in USA, (lower left) and the Fed Mog bearing (center) I am putting in it came out of the box as a Bower that was boxed in a newer style box - and it appeared to have some grease in it. Doesn't look run but does look like someone packed it and then cleaned it up and re-boxed it. It was listed as new but I think it may be open box because it was not in any sweat paper, or plastic. Also, it is dimensionally the same but has fewer rollers than the Timken which is interesting. I paid 5% of what the cost of a new one is so if it is open box, I don't care at this point.

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All this mix of parts Makes me wonder how many times this thing has been apart over the years. It has two different equipment reseller badges on it, along with the US Navy ORD brass tag.


Using Cincinnati tool brand clamps to work on the Cincinnati mill - on the "Bridgie Smalls" Bridgeport mill. Adding some set screws to lock the counterweight lifting eye bolt in place. The lifting eye was salvaged from the old rack gear.

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Also sounds like a mistake I'd make... chase away from the shoulder next time if it's possible.
Really enjoying your rebuild progress!
 
Bump for updates.

You got any idea how this gearbox is supposed to work to traverse the quill?

The wheel that looks like it goes to a worm shaft spins freely like it's not engaged. Doesn't seem to push in or out like a Bridgeport. But I haven't exactly hit it with a dead blow either. The big wheel on the side with three handles doesn't move. Wiggles a little like it can move but like something is blocking it, not seized. The big knurled knob in the middle doesn't seem to do anything but I haven't put a wrench on it or hit it with a hammer either.

I've decided I'm gonna use my mill instead of sell it so I'm looking to get the head off mine so I can take it inside and clean it and get it working. Also it needs to come off to clear the door.

quilll.jpg
 
Bump for updates.

You got any idea how this gearbox is supposed to work to traverse the quill?

The wheel that looks like it goes to a worm shaft spins freely like it's not engaged. Doesn't seem to push in or out like a Bridgeport. But I haven't exactly hit it with a dead blow either. The big wheel on the side with three handles doesn't move. Wiggles a little like it can move but like something is blocking it, not seized. The big knurled knob in the middle doesn't seem to do anything but I haven't put a wrench on it or hit it with a hammer either.

I've decided I'm gonna use my mill instead of sell it so I'm looking to get the head off mine so I can take it inside and clean it and get it working. Also it needs to come off to clear the door.

No updates on mine; its all ready to go back together but I've just been busy on other things lately. I have had some work come through that this would have been useful for... it is time to get back at it.

As for the quill drive; there is a drive face in there that has to be compressed to directly drive the pinion gear to lift the head with the rack. That big handle should always be connected to the pinion gear but to use the fine feed wheel from the front, you have to engage the drives.

I am just going to post some pictures of mine that may help show how it works. Mine has the power feed setup too which is the rear gear assembly and the shifter handle that goes through the fine feed drive.

20231107_171844.jpg


20231107_171758.jpg


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Screen Shot 2023-11-07 at 8.47.15 PM.png
 
As for the quill drive; there is a drive face in there that has to be compressed to directly drive the pinion gear to lift the head with the rack. That big handle should always be connected to the pinion gear but to use the fine feed wheel from the front, you have to engage the drives.

I am just going to post some pictures of mine that may help show how it works. Mine has the power feed setup too which is the rear gear assembly and the shifter handle that goes through the fine feed drive.
Which manual is that illustration from?

This is what I'm referencing and I can't find it. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/29754.pdf

Regardless, what engages the worm shaft to the bull gear? If the worm shaft and bull gear are not engaged to each other then I should be able to just hit the handles with a dead blow and get things moving, right?

Is there some sort of quill lock I have to release first? I don't see one anywhere obvious.
 
Which manual is that illustration from?

This is what I'm referencing and I can't find it. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2097/29754.pdf

Regardless, what engages the worm shaft to the bull gear? If the worm shaft and bull gear are not engaged to each other then I should be able to just hit the handles with a dead blow and get things moving, right?

Is there some sort of quill lock I have to release first? I don't see one anywhere obvious.
Mine has quill locks that have to be released.

The worm gear is always engaged with the fine hand feed wheel on the front. The pinion is always engaged with the big hand wheel on the side. The semi geared collar inside slides on a splined shaft to engage the fine hand wheel with the coarse hand wheel. It just slides in and out and the teeth engage anywhere along the face. The spring wants to keep them apart. Mine doesn't have the threaded hand piece on the end like yours but rather a cam type flip handle that when pulled it over runs the spring and engages the teeth together so that the fine hand wheel drives the quill. That also has to be engaged in order for the power feed to drive the quill on mine.

I don't know how to explain it any further than for me to slowly put it back together but that isn't planned until week of Thanksgiving.

I found the correct version manual for mine and bought both the printed copy and downloaded it but also here is a very similar but not identical one on Keiths site.

 
I couldn't see anything that I'd describe as a "semi geared collar". The brass worm wheel was spinning just fine but I couldn't see anything that would make the outer toothed plate attached to the big handle move right and engage the one attached to the worm wheel. Regardless, deadblow on the big handle didn't move jack shit so I get the feeling that engaging the worm wheel would be pointless.

I also slacked all the gib bolts by about 1/8 to see if it would make the head move up and down easier. That didn't happen but it made the head lock engage much later in its throw so I know it did move some. It feels like the head is just stuck. I say that based on the fact that the handle attached to the pinion gear does move some.

I don't want to just put a cheater on it lest my rack end up like yours. I wonder if I can throw a bottle jack between the table and the head and get the head freed up that way.

Worm gear box looks beautifully clean inside.
attachment(113).jpg
 
I don't want to just put a cheater on it lest my rack end up like yours. I wonder if I can throw a bottle jack between the table and the head and get the head freed up that way.
Can you use the table to put pressure on the head so you don't stress anything? As in .010 of table pressure to nudge the head and look for a change on a dial indicator? At least start off subtly!
 
The mill is missing a Z handle so I'd have to make one first. I figure I can just wood block under the knee to keep stress off the Z leadscrew.

The dial indicator is a good idea.
 
Rainy gross day today so I decided to tinker around on the Bridgeport to work on the Cinci.

The bearing cones on the spindle are keyed; the double roller race is as well. Whoever took this thing apart the last time lost all of the bearing cone keys, except I did find one in a clump of grease in the bottom of the spindle housing when cleaning it up. This helped with figuring out the design they needed to be.

All I had on hand was some 5/8" square key stock and a piece of unknown 5/8" square stock. The depth of the legs on this thing were shallow so I ugly welded a piece of key stock to the other stock and used that to hold everything.

Went to town with the Bridgeport.

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Had a 30 / 60 angle to the keys so I got to use the tilting vise I picked up earlier this year.

20231210_135937.jpg



Cut them off of the stock on the bandsaw, and left them a little fat.
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Fresh off the saw, and the closest one on the right is the one I found originally and was copying.
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Cleaned them up with the hand file and fit each one to its own bearing. I just needed 3 of them. The bottom bearing is a press fit and the other 3 are held with these keys.

20231210_152130.jpg


I'm hoping to stay the course and finally get this thing back together over the end of the year.
 
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