1940 Cincinnati No 2 High Speed Vertical Mill Partial Refurb and Repairs

[AlxJ64]

Wrestled with this thing a little bit more yesterday; I'm trying to take off one day a week in Dec. to just get caught up on life (holidays are NOT time off to me, since life is already pre-planned by other things).

Got the head back on and started to fight the spindle in place. I fed the drive pinion in for the head lifting rack to test mesh and fitment and it appears that the gear mesh is pretty close to where I wanted it so those last few though I fly cut off on Sunday night was the right measurement.

I did have to install the head twice though, because I was dumb and drove the upper double roller bearing race into place and then forgot to place the inner slinger and inner bearing on top of the crown gear housing before lifting the head on. Then, after realizing my stupidity, I also thought about how hard it will be to get the key and stuff in place while trying to reach through the bearing race. I decided I'll leave the upper bearing parts out all together until I get the lower assembled and seated and adjusted (I re-read the service manual and it vaguely describes this).

I was hoping that I could use the weight of the head to press the spindle into the lower bearing that was already installed in the head by a combination of lifting the knee and lowering the head. The bottom most bearing on the spindle is a press fit, and the other 3 cones use keys. No-go; The 265 lb head wasn't enough. I am working on one of the gib slides right now too, as it needs a new tang welded on for adjustment so I can't lock the head and force with lifting the knee right now either, and would prefer not to.

So I parted off a piece of 3.5" tubing scrap that I had laying around and one night this week will press the lower bearing on with either the big arbor press or the hydraulic shop press. I would like a spare set of hands to wrestle this thing though. Its got some mass to it and is awkward and I don't want to ding up any of the hard shoulders of the drive splines.

3.5" OD tube... nice size hardware in this thing.

I need to get my control rods built for the speed and feeds selector rod as well as for the rapid traverse control rod. Its obvious that someone chained it down at some point and didn't give a shit where they put the chains and kinked both the vertical linkage shafts. It was at least one paint job ago though so this thing was already brought back from scrap at least once in its life.

 

[Firstram]

Have you considered chilling the spindle and heating the bearing?

 

[AlxJ64]

Have you considered chilling the spindle and heating the bearing?

I had not, and I do like that idea. However, the shop press has plenty of room, its just a matter of wrestling the heavy spindle. with he bearing and press collar and getting these 1-1/2" arbor plates in position. I ended up having the girlfriend align the plates on the press while I wrestled the spindle.

Only had like 30 min to work on this thing yesterday evening so getting the bearing on and the spindle back through the drive splines. Using some blocks and the knee gets it close and then just a slight lift and spin will get it to spline into the drive gear.

The next step is to get the upper bearing of the inner set down the shank of the spindle. It doesn't want to just "fall" on currently so there may be some prying inside the access of the head to get it started enough that the lower spindle nut will then thread it down. I also have to be cognizant of the key seat location on the spindle too. I didn't get a picture of that last night, but will try to tonight before I get too greasy to pickup the camera again.

 

[AlxJ64]

Spindle is back in, and the keys fit. What a PITA. If the key wasn't lined up perfect with both the slot and the bearing, the cone had to be pulled back out again for the bottom one. I tried to get them into the bearing and keyway at the top and then drive it down but there is just no room for fingers, or pliers, and it would fall out each time anyways. I had to just keep after it until I got it right.

The top was easy though because I could take a drift and spin the cone around to line it all up. Put a slight leading taper on the key to help start it also. Now I need to get everything snugged correctly and see how it spins.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I would have ground a taper onto the key.

 

[AlxJ64]

I would have ground a taper onto the key.

I did, slightly.


So practice makes perfect and don't make assumptions.
When I got this thing, one of the gib wedges was broken off at the top, at what looked like where the adjustment head attached to it. They are cast something of sorts and one of the other 2 had also been repaired in the past.

I took my measurements for the hole distance, widths, etc. I milled bevels on the gib and the replacement block. Then used RN67 Monel filler to TIG braze the parts together. Nothing cracked. Smacked it on the table a few times. Milled the weld faces in the locations they needed clearance for the head ways. Dropped it in and it nearly bottomed out.

I didn't realized it had broken off flush with the top of the head and not at the 90 degree turn. I made the assumption that it failed at the normal stress riser and not the shear plane on the top of the machine. Ooops.

Least my process works.

Its obvious now in the photo when comparing the taper starting point.

Mine on the left and the older brazed repair from who knows when.

And above is just self weight of the gib, and not even snug with the head; it would give me no adjustment really before bottoming out. Back to the Bridgeport to make the leg longer and weld it on again.

 

[AlxJ64]

Fixed my oops with the making of the gib tang too short; added an extension section, then milled it all back for clearance. I also made the adjustment bolt for it. Included a picture of what the original stuff looks like on the other side of the head.

I'm waiting on some round stock to mill keyways into for fixing the front shift handles and the rapids controls. After that I have to make a Cam lever to engage the rapids, and also need to make some sort of flange to hold the crown gear for the shifter rods. Pics later to better explain.
Getting close to getting this thing back in service. Depending on how much tolerance it holds and if its not totally worn out, I am going to look into putting a DRO on it too.

 

[AlxJ64]

Once again, another rainy weekend has me working on this machine while I wait on materials for other projects.

Before I can put the feed box back on, I wanted to fix the table rapid feed control linkage. Similar to the speeds and feeds selector on the left side of the machine, on the right side is the rapid table feed control. Lever is under the front of the apron and runs to a 90 degree feed rod that drives a cam. The cam disengages the drive feed and then engages the clutch for the rapids.

You can see the empty hole next to the oak block and straight above it is an access next to the head feed drive shaft.

Looking down in, the cover and linkage have been missing for a long time.

So this is what I came up with. I used a piece of 1" DOM and reamed out the ID to be dead on 3/4". Took a piece of 3/4" solid stock and TIG'd it to a flat bar, clamped it in the mill, and used an annular cutter to lopp off a piece of it with the 1" cope.

TIG'd the slug to the DOM and then broached it for a 3/16" keyway. I made sure to cut the key in the thick section where the cam lobe is helping hold the wall from splitting.

Threw it back in the little Bridgeport and flattened one side of the cam lobe, and then hit it with a radius cutter.

And this is what it looks like to drive the cam lever. I have to cut the keyway in the control rod at both ends, and the top end will end up with a retainer screw and a cap to cover this opening again, like it should have.

 

[AlxJ64]

Drilled and tapped the top of the drive rod and then made a big dumb machine screw to take up the space inside the opening so that when the cap plate is installed, it will keep the rod in place. It also uses the cam section as the vertical retainer from dropping out.

Then milled the 16" long keyway in for the table to slide up and down. The 3/4" rod was just a touch too snug without throwing it on the lathe and turning a few thou off for it to slide.

But yea, all good and appears to work. Need to draw up and cut the cover plate and then I can get back to installing the feed box on the side of the machine. So close now!

 

[PAToyota]

It's a good feeling when you can take a broken or damaged part, reproduce it, and make things work.
It's a great feeling when you can take a missing part, reproduce it, and make things work!

 

[AlxJ64]

Well, I have a job coming up that I need this machine for. Time to get off my ass.

I got the giant counterweight slung back into the box last night. That is one heavy and awkward ass chunk of babbit.

Need to get a hand mounting the feed box back on the side, get the gibs all adjusted and we should be back in business... finally.

 

[grumpy356]

Well, I have a job coming up that I need this machine for. Time to get off my ass.

I got the giant counterweight slung back into the box last night. That is one heavy and awkward ass chunk of babbit.

Need to get a hand mounting the feed box back on the side, get the gibs all adjusted and we should be back in business... finally.

The thrill of working on shit, because you need it to work on other shit.

That’s what my life has become & I gotta say, I’m not a big fan.

Good luck on getting it done & keep it up.
Good job.

 

[AlxJ64]

Still working on this thing little by little.

I got the counterweights installed and the chains adjusted so that they are applying load the full length of travel. I think that was part of the problem that helped cause it to break back whenever that happened. The wear marks on the chains and sprockets vs the limits of travel were not balanced and therefore for the top 1 to 2" of travel, the feed system was carrying all of the weight because the counterweights were bottoming out in the weight box.

I have to machine a few bushings for the feed handle engagement and either find or make some missing hardware but getting closer to finally using this thing for some stuff. I've been making random weird hardware and this screw was missing from the previous owner taking it apart and then cobbling back together.

 

[AlxJ64]

Got the rest of the feed box controls deburred, cleaned up, and reinstalled. All of these nice cleanly machined self telescoping parts that engage the fine feed / power feed system with a little cam lever were all mushroomed from someone beating on them, senselessly, with a hammer. No reason why other than maybe them not understanding how it worked.

I am waiting a piece of acrylic to replace the sight glass for the oiling of the feedbox here. After that its clean up the machine a little more and hopefully put it in use. The homemade drawbar that came with it is less than nice so I may manufacture a new one of those. But otherwise, I am hoping to make some chips with it soon. Gonna look into a cheap-o DRO for it too.

 

[AlxJ64]

Well, its alive!!! It eats metal with a smile.. But something in the Rapids already popped. I am thinking that it must have an internal issue with the clutch itself and I had no way to test it prior to putting it back together. Not a big concern at the moment as this machine will honestly not be used all that often.

The head power feed is super smooth up and down, the gibb locks all work to hold it in place, and the spindle has no measurable runout on an 0.000" readout.

I put a 5" diameter, HSS style shell mill in it for the first run.

By the 3rd pass I was taking a 0.185" DOC pass at 114 RPM, and 3-1/4 IPM feed. Does. Not. Care. My little Bridgeport would have stalled when the first cutter hit.

The chips are coarse enough that they jingle on the floor when you kick your feet through them.

I have no shortage of face mills, but a lot of them need the inserts turned or replaced. I actually liked how this old school HSS cutter ran.

I have a plethora of end mill holders for this thing too.

I just need to keep scoring large endmills like this 2" one for doing various slotting and such. I have an NMTB 50 boring head (2 actually) for it as well.

Now, I am on the hunt for a No 2 HZ mill.

 

[Byro]

That is pretty gnarly. Definitely makes a Bridgeport look like a toy, my brain has a hard time computing the size of that shell mill.

 

[AlxJ64]

That is pretty gnarly. Definitely makes a Bridgeport look like a toy, my brain has a hard time computing the size of that shell mill.

That Boris Artzybasheff piece is making its way around the internet these days. I had originally thought of it as a good tattoo but have already seen like 5 badly done versions of it on people already, so N/M.

Yea, it makes a Bridgeport feel like a Fisher Price version for sure. That 5" shell is one of the smaller ones that I have too. I need to setup my tool grinder for holding and sharpening these HSS bits if I end up doing much with it. I was surprised at how well it actually cut.

 

[bdkw1]

You can always tell a manual machinist, facing right to left.......

 

[CarterKraft]

You can always tell a AMATEUR machinist, facing right to left.......

You misspelled "AMATEUR"

 

[Firstram]

You can always tell a manual machinist, facing right to left.......

Not so sure it makes that much difference when the shell mill is larger than the part, button pushers

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Fuckin awesome man, nice work.

 

[bdkw1]

It makes a difference on if the flaming hot chips are sticking to you or bouncing off the back of the machine. Only amateurs go the other way on an open machine.

 

[Firstram]

It makes a difference on if the flaming hot chips are sticking to you or bouncing off the back of the machine. Only amateurs go the other way on an open machine.

Clockwise rotating cutter cutting right to left throws hot chips towards the column on my Bridgeport. You should probably try standing in front of the table

 

[bdkw1]

Clockwise rotating cutter cutting right to left throws hot chips towards the column on my Bridgeport. You should probably try standing in front of the table

If youre hand cranking like a real man, you're at one end or the other.

 

[AlxJ64]

Clockwise rotating cutter cutting right to left throws hot chips towards the column on my Bridgeport. You should probably try standing in front of the table

This mainly. As said, these chips will jingle on the floor when sweeping them.

Also, the way I was feeding in this case, it pushes the stock against the fixed jaw on the vise, which is more rigid.

Heres a link to an IG video of it running last night.

IG Video link

 

[bdkw1]

Is that 10 inserts on the mill? If so you were only pulling about .003 chip load. You should be able to almost double that. It should pull .006-.01 chip load at .185doc without a fuss. At that point though, you might need a couple extra clamps on the vise to keep it from moving around.

 

[AlxJ64]

Is that 10 inserts on the mill? If so you were only pulling about .003 chip load. You should be able to almost double that. It should pull .006-.01 chip load at .185doc without a fuss. At that point though, you might need a couple extra clamps on the vise to keep it from moving around.

12 I think. Yea, I can eventually step it up more but I was focused on the machine itself. This is the first time it has run in many many years. The guy I got it from never ran it and the shop he said he saw it running in, I called them and they were like... you bought that thing? We bought it for parts for our other one and stole a bearing out it. We had it in the corner for 10 years before finally it went at auction when we were cleaning up and getting rid of our manual machines. Then they confirmed that the guy did in fact haul it on a landscape trailer behind an F150 as the seller claimed he did to me after I had loaded it.

 

[AlxJ64]

Well, first real project. Making a 2-9/16" round to 2-5/8" hex auger drive adapter. I can borrow some auger bits from a local utility contractor but they run a 2-5/8" hex drive and my skid steer auger (which will eventually also go on the mini excavator) is a Lowe 750 with a 2-9/16" drive.

Started with some 3" round mild steel and turned a little 1" nub on one end, then installed a collet block for reference. I also considered just milling a flat and then just rotating the part but didn't want to end up stacking tolerances and would rather shoot for zero zero with something easier to see and mess with.

Fresh off the mill, before any de-burring. I made full depth passes at 0.188" DOC.

 

[AlxJ64]

I messed up on a dimension offset in a drawing. Cut the parts a month ago and then went to fit it all and was off by just a hair. I offset on the wrong side and then mirrored and thats all she wrote.

Didn't feel like fighting the bridgeport to make space and was short on travel so would have been 4 setups to mill out two inside edges of these indexing tab slots in this A50 plate. Its a rake build for my mini-excavator.

Put the old Cincinnati to work again. Turning a 1/2" carbide roughing mill in this big thing just felt laughable but it worked like a charm and was quick and easy. Stuff like this is why I can justify the floor space. Plus its cool and evidently that makes me a hipster and it bothers people here.

 

[Firstram]

I messed up on a dimension offset in a drawing. Cut the parts a month ago and then went to fit it all and was off by just a hair. I offset on the wrong side and then mirrored and thats all she wrote.

Didn't feel like fighting the bridgeport to make space and was short on travel so would have been 4 setups to mill out two inside edges of these indexing tab slots in this A50 plate. Its a rake build for my mini-excavator.

Put the old Cincinnati to work again. Turning a 1/2" carbide roughing mill in this big thing just felt laughable but it worked like a charm and was quick and easy. Stuff like this is why I can justify the floor space. Plus its cool and evidently that makes me a hipster and it bothers people here.

Does it even spin fast enough for a 1/2” endmill?