Swaybar for SAS Tacoma w/ outboard steering box options

maveric

maveric

Squirrel Spotter
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May 19, 2020
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Almost Wyoming
What are my options?

Background... 2002 DC Tacoma. PO did a SAS with Waggy 44 and Rough Country leafs. Actually did a decent job. Fast forward a couple years, Needed to replace BJ's, TRE's and wheel bearings, so I updated to a Diamond. I have been using it as a Sweep/Chase vehicle for the Norra 500, so naturally I have beat the **** out of it. 1st year I bent the front leafs, so upgraded to Fox 2.0 12" coilovers and 3 link. Rode a lot better in the front, but magnified how bad the rear rode. So upgraded the rears to Deavers. The ride is nice now, and other than fine tuning, it seems to be dialed in pretty decent. The current config is a mild crawler with go-fast (within reason) tendencies.

Now the dilemma. It has some significant body roll induced under steer. When I come into a corner, or driving on highways that have truck ruts, every time the body rolls, the truck wanders. Part of it could be the square shoulders of the KO2's, part could be that the caster needs adjusted a little. The addition of the new springs helped a lot, but the issue is still there.
What I am looking to do is improve its highway manners. Off highway, it is great. On a smooth road, its fine. Rutted, uneven, high traction roads, it can get a little sketchy at highway speeds.

Short of completely redesigning the link mounts (not really on option), I think my only other option is a sway bar. From the reading I have done, for my symptoms, the sway bar should go on the front to counter the body roll/steering change. Since there isn't on off the shelf bolt on option, I am looking at the anti-rocks. Based on size and weight, I would guess something similar to the JK/JL kits would work for me as well. All the kits I have seen on rigs have the steering box mounted INSIDE the frame. On the Taco, it is mounted outside. I have room to mount the bar in the location of the abandoned front spring hanger bracket, but am hung up on how to make the arms clear the tires AND the steering box. Can you heat and bend the steel arms to clear? Is it better to go with a wider bar and straight arms?

Any insight? I will get some pics of the rig tonight. TIA
 
I remember Ian from wheel every weekend talking about this on a podcast. Maybe go back through his podcasts or feeds, or even reach out to him. I remember him saying it was a massive PITA.
 
also

ErikB said:
My current coiled '97 has Rock Equipment antisway bars front and rear that stay connected all the time. The rig is extemely stable on side hills and still flexes well.
Its tough to fit one up front around the steering on a Toyota, but there are lots of ways to do it in the rear.

I can change link positions on the arms to stiffen it up for long road trips, but most of the time I don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

1753142936762.png


1753142963610.png
 
mobil1syn said:
what is the valving in the coilovers? spring rates/lengths? where is your cross over set?
Click to expand...
12" Fox 2.0. Currently stock valving. I have ordered the .008 shims, just havent installed them yet.
12"x250 lb
14"x400 lb
Crossover at 1", 1" preload. 50% shaft @ ride.
 
IFS steering box I assume?

I’ve only seen it done by having the sway bar in front of the radiator and positioned high up so the sway bar arms don’t interfere with the swing of the pitman arm.

Mossyrocks had a good build on the old site but nearly all the photos are missing now unfortunately. Here’s an old YouTube video where you can kinda see it working:



If that doesn’t work, maybe explore mounting the sway bar to the axle and attach the links to the frame.
 
mobil1syn said:
also



1753142936762.png


1753142963610.png
Click to expand...
This is how the SAS H3 guys do it with outboard Toyota boxes. Big bend in the arm to clear the box then it snakes back towards the frame. Just beef up the arm, it sees a lot of load especially with those bends in it
 
Team_Jake said:
IFS steering box I assume?

I’ve only seen it done by having the sway bar in front of the radiator and positioned high up so the sway bar arms don’t interfere with the swing of the pitman arm.

Mossyrocks had a good build on the old site but nearly all the photos are missing now unfortunately. Here’s an old YouTube video where you can kinda see it working:



If that doesn’t work, maybe explore mounting the sway bar to the axle and attach the links to the frame.
Click to expand...

Yes, IFS box. Looks like if it was mounted high enough, you would have to watch inner fender clearance on full stuff, but as it drops, looks like it could clear the pitman arm... May be a viable option, and "maybe" cleaner.
 
I've been looking at different ways to mount one on my first gen 4runner that's 3linked in the front.

Best thing I could come up with was to mount the sway bar to the axle. I'm still in the process of trying to figure it out lol.
 
does it feel like oversteer when it starts to dive during a turn? My all-pro kit did that... tended to be scary at times.. 4WU that superseded AP doesn't do that.

You mentioned caster and other tuning... do that first... Otherwise you may just be throwing money at band-aids.
 
If the body leans and the truck starts to wander your drag link and trac bar are fighting each other. Fix that problem and the rest of your issues will go away.
 
rockota said:
does it feel like oversteer when it starts to dive during a turn? My all-pro kit did that... tended to be scary at times.. 4WU that superseded AP doesn't do that.

You mentioned caster and other tuning... do that first... Otherwise you may just be throwing money at band-aids.
Click to expand...
I think it is understeer (these two terms are still confusing). If I steer into a turn, once the body leans, I can let go of the wheel and it will straighten out. (Wants to go straight in a corner)
I read somewhere that if you add caster, it will make the steering more lazy. Right now the steering is darty.

Last year I fought with serious death wobble, so spent most of the summer chasing that. New track bar heims, 3 alignments trying to tweak things to make it better. Everything else on the front end was new within the previous year (wheel bearings, trunion bearings, TRE's, steering box, tires, etc). I had to resort to adding steering stabilizers on it to make it drivable. I changed rear springs earlier this year, which raised the rear about 1.5". I adjusted the front C/O's back where they were built around (50% travel, preload) to level the truck. I didn't have it aligned again afterwards though.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
If the body leans and the truck starts to wander your drag link and trac bar are fighting each other. Fix that problem and the rest of your issues will go away.
Click to expand...
Bump steer may be a small part of the problem, although the DL and TB are almost the same length/angle. What I am fighting with (I believe) is the suspension geometry changing when the body rolls (similar to roll steer), causing the wheelbase to lengthen/shorten on one side, causing the tires to track in a different arc. I believe adding a sway bar will help keep the body and the axle in the same horizontal plane.
 
At ride height
Lower link 43” @ 10.1* down
Upper link 36” @ 5.4* down
Track bar 40” @ 9.8*
Drag link 38” @ 9.2*

IMG_5095.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Have you messed with toe and caster? My SAS Explorer used to act like what you are describing. I ended up setting the toe to 1/8" in, and kept adding positive caster until it smoothed out. I have Duff radius arms so getting more caster was as simple as changing out bushings. Too much toe in or out will do that as well. Makes steering feel sensitive and twitchy.

I was going to get one of those off road sway bars but the adjustments made it unnecessary. I do get some serious low speed 90* turn body roll. I have 14" coilovers.

The Deavers might be too soft for your rig. I had a custom set of rear leafs made based upon what I do with it, and sometimes I load it up for 7-15 days worth of gear.
 
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BDK said:
Have you messed with toe and caster? My SAS Explorer used to act like what you are describing. I ended up setting the toe to 1/8" in, and kept adding positive caster until it smoothed out. I have Duff radius arms so getting more caster was as simple as changing out bushings. Too much toe in or out will do that as well. Makes steering feel sensitive and twitchy.

I was going to get one of those off road sway bars but the adjustments made it unnecessary. I do get some serious low speed 90* turn body roll. I have 14" coilovers.

The Deavers might be too soft for your rig. I had a custom set of rear leafs made based upon what I do with it, and sometimes I load it up for 7-15 days worth of gear.
Click to expand...
Haven’t messed with the alignment since the new springs. They are custom deavers based on corner weights with and without all the crap I carry during the summer. (RTT, 5 gal water, 6 gal fuel, fridge, cooler, food box, bbq, recovery/tools, 12v welder,and a weeks worth of crap)

The added weight actually helped (I think because it changed the caster by lowering the rear end).

Caster is currently 6.4*
IMG_5100.jpeg
 
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My first SAS Tacoma drove similar to this and it was because the front was toed out. Once I toed it in, it drove nice again but every time I hit a bump it would want to dart in the direction I was going.
 
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