Double beadlock thread

[YotaAtieToo]

Not much info on double beadlocks out there, may as well have a thread here.

Picked up some old beat up stazworks from KarlVP a while back for $200 because the centers were bent.

Not the best looking wheels out there but the price was right.

After some figuring I found that common H1 pressed centers are actually just 17" wheel centers. So I picked up a set from twf for ~$450.

Cut the rock rings down to get the centers in, used the center as a guide, worked perfect.

Then I had to cut the centers out. Plan was to leave the bolt flange and just weld the center to one side. The stazworks wheels have a center on both halves and sandwich them the the lug studs. Hopefully this doesn't have a negative effect only having the center on 1 half, I'd think 36 (iirc) grade 8 3/8" bolts should be more than enough to hold.

I did mount 1 tire for funsies, so had to dismount. This worked well. I used grease to mount the wheel so I think that helped is pop apart as these wheels have safety beads despite being double beadlocks. Really they're just a regular 17" wheel shell cut in half.

If anyone has a better lube to use on the tire I'm all ears. With everything clamped together, I don't think it could slip on the wheel, but something that stays slick might help with dismounting.

Then the fun started with dropping in the centers. They were an interference fit. Long story short, I got it right on the last one just using a ton of heat on the shell. The other 3 I had to **** with a lot to try and minimize run out.

Checking run out

Final product.

Just need to finish weld, add vale stems (using 1/4" npt weld in bungs and stems to make replacement easy)

I also bought 3/16 cord to make o rings from. Plan to use CA glue hopefully it's the right type of rubber? Math's says a little less than 5' per wheel.

 

[KarlVP]

To pull them apart you need the biggest dead blow hammer you have, and whatever lube you have. Your engine hoist method is exactly what I did.

Lots and lots of lube. I found liquid laundry soap works very well.

Glad to see these are still alive.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

To pull them apart you need the biggest dead blow hammer you have, and whatever lube you have. Your engine hoist method is exactly what I did.

Lots and lots of lube. I found liquid laundry soap works very well.

Glad to see these are still alive.

It came apart pretty easy, but also was only on for 1 day and had grease on it.

Funny you posted, I finished them and mounted 2 tires.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Finish welded the centers in and added my weld bungs. Seemed to go fine.

I figured this stuff would work well for the o-rings. It what they use to glue rc tires to the wheels. Supposedly similar to super glue.

After I made the o rings, I went around and "tacked" them to the groove every 5" or so. I can't imagine trying to mount the tire without doing that.

Used some 3", 2.5" and 2" full thread bolts to pull them in enough to get the 1.25" bolts in. If I did it again, I'd order 4" and 2" full thread bolts. Make sure to get grade 8, the softer bolts are easy to break trying to pull the halves together.

Not sure why I didn't paint the back side before bolts, but oh well. I figured maybe I'll powder coat them next time I swap tires.

Did 2 bungs. Might add a small ball valve during snow wheelin season.

I'm not sure about the valve stem location. It's not super vulnerable, but is metal, but also easy to swap. If it becomes an issue, I may weld on a little tab to help protect it.

 

[KarlVP]

This thread makes my pants tight.

 

[arse_sidewards]

You know you can just buy O-rings in large diameters, right?

 

[TrailTamer]

I'm not sure about the valve stem location. It's not super vulnerable, but is metal, but also easy to swap. If it becomes an issue, I may weld on a little tab to help protect it.

probably too late now but this seem like good to be reused as rock guard and to protect the valve stem?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You know you can just buy O-rings in large diameters, right?

I swear of I'd have done that you'd have told me I could just cut and glue my own out of cord.

 

[Sean]

You know you can just buy O-rings in large diameters, right?

Yeah....I have the McMaster Carr number/size for the ones Stazworks uses at home. If anyone needs it, LMK and I'll post it tonight.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Yeah....I have the McMaster Carr number/size for the ones Stazworks uses at home. If anyone needs it, LMK and I'll post it tonight.

May as well.

I'm pretty sure at least some of the double beadlock companies are doing it exactly like I did.

 

[Sean]

I'm such an asshole. Didn't remember to get this info.

This is the Stazworks o-ring from McMaster Carr for the 17" wheel:

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Sorry about that.

I do have a question though (searched and haven't found a thing). Did you have any trouble getting your Stazworks wheels to center up correctly in the tires? I've just wasted 4 hours trying to mount 2 tires, with the same result. (One isn't centered on the inside bead, the other isn't centering on the outside bead).

Here's the 2nd attempt:

Is there any chance if I finish pulling this in and bolt it up that it'll self center when I hit it with air? I'm of the opinion there's no ****ing way that's happening, but at this point, having ****ed up two of these....it's looking like I'm not competent enough to own split rims and I should just get rid of these heavy ****ers. Super frustrated right now. On the plus side, they look nice. :)

 

[reptillikus]

I've had mine apart a few times over the years, never had an issue getting the tire centered. I put a block under the wheel when mounting to help the back half of the wheel seat against the inner bead.

Cool to know the oring is just a 384, might have to grab one or two to keep in the truck for trail spares. I have a spool of cord stock on the shelf though so I make a new oring every time I take a wheel apart at home.

 

[Sean]

I've had mine apart a few times over the years, never had an issue getting the tire centered. I put a block under the wheel when mounting to help the back half of the wheel seat against the inner bead.

Cool to know the oring is just a 384, might have to grab one or two to keep in the truck for trail spares. I have a spool of cord stock on the shelf though so I make a new oring every time I take a wheel apart at home.

How does the block of wood help? Wouldn't it lift the inner half of the wheel away from that inner bead of the tire?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The tire should center up when it's clamped down

 

[reptillikus]

How does the block of wood help? Wouldn't it lift the inner half of the wheel away from that inner bead of the tire?

No it's the opposite. The tire is on the ground, but when you lift the inner wheel half up off the ground the inner bead wants to seat against the wheel.
So I usually set a block down, set the inner half down, set the tire over it, lay the oring in there, and then set the outer half of the wheel in place. Slow and steady with 4 longer bolts to pull the halves together, and they always seat up nicely.

 

[willis_racing]

I do have a question though (searched and haven't found a thing). Did you have any trouble getting your Stazworks wheels to center up correctly in the tires? I've just wasted 4 hours trying to mount 2 tires, with the same result. (One isn't centered on the inside bead, the other isn't centering on the outside bead).

Here's the 2nd attempt:

Sure looks to me like you're trying to mount 17" tires on 16.5" wheels.

 

[Sean]

The tire should center up when it's clamped down

It doesn't. Neither did. Not sure why either.

No it's the opposite. The tire is on the ground, but when you lift the inner wheel half up off the ground the inner bead wants to seat against the wheel.
So I usually set a block down, set the inner half down, set the tire over it, lay the oring in there, and then set the outer half of the wheel in place. Slow and steady with 4 longer bolts to pull the halves together, and they always seat up nicely.

Maybe I'm using too many bolts? Watched a YT video...guy was using 8 bolts and going in a circular pattern. I used 8 the first time but went opposing sides, like you would lug nuts. 2nd time I used 8 and did the circular thing thinking maybe his method was better. Obviously, that didn't work out.

I'll try the block trick. Thanks!

 

[Sean]

Sure looks to me like you're trying to mount 17" tires on 16.5" wheels.

Oh, holy ****. I hope that's not what's happening. They did **** up my order royally the first time around and sent the wrong wheels. Tried to get me to take them at a discount but I wanted the specific centers I have and made them make another set.

EDIT Nope. They did it right. It's 18.5" across just like a set of new 17" steelies I have down in the shop. As usual, the problem is me. :(

 

[KarlVP]

Your wheel looks too small?

Maybe an optical illusion, but that ain't right.

We had to get four fat guys taking turns jumping on mine to get a long bolt to start on the clamping ring.

 

[Sean]

Your wheel looks too small?

Maybe an optical illusion, but that ain't right.

We had to get four fat guys taking turns jumping on mine to get a long bolt to start on the clamping ring.

Just an optical illusion.....it definitely looks too small. But...there's actually no gap in that photo, it's just not centered and the bead is not fully seated on the side it's pushed over to (the left side if looking at the photo I posted). It still needs to pull up about 1/2" to be fully seated. I just sent Stazworks an email asking if they have any tips. I'll let you guys know what I hear back...just in case it can help some other ****** like myself in the future. :)

 

[bradp674]

Don't have any answers for you, but I also had 17" with the same centers and had no problem mounting them. I had two that had a slow leak, though.

 

[Sean]

Here's what Stazworks said:

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The SX tires are just tighter on the wheel than others so they cause problems like this once in a while.
When we had this trouble we would air the tire up probably 10-20 psi more than Max and it would mostly pull out and seat properly. Other times we would not concern ourselves with pulling the halves together evenly just watch the bead and pull on what ever side is struggling the most to pop out.
Might be 2" different on one side to the other.

I definitely know the struggle! It has really only been a few tires that do this. The SX2 was one. I remember a long time ago a customer sent his tires and wheels back to us to mount as he could not get it. It was a struggle but we were able to get it.

Did the other side of the tire seat properly?

JOHN STASZAK

 

[Sean]

Am I just being a pussy or does this look sketch AF for inflating to try and seat the bead?

It's not a very good picture to capture what's going on, but the part of the tire that says TSL/SX2 is bulged way the **** out....looks like with much more volume/pressure it could conceivably pop that side of the tire over the lip of the rim while the part of the wheel/tire closest to the camera is way sunk in and even with ru-glyde tire mounting lubricant, it's not budging and seating on the rim.

I've got a 2" ~3500 lb ratchet tie down strap wrapped over it just to put a bit of tension on the tire to the rim and have tried it with and without it tensioned up. Kinda silly since the strap likely won't help if this thing blows and it probably needs to be in a safety cage...or maybe I'm just being a pussy. I work in very high pressure helium, nitrogen for aerospace capsule propulsion and have been around a few accidents where volume can be even more dangerous than the pressures, so maybe I'm just gun shy.

Anyone else think this is perfectly okay? Any ideas on how to do it more safely? I'm currently doing what I've always done mounting similar tires on regular beadlocks; removing the valve core and taking the end of my air hose with no chuck on it and dumping air in from a 60 gallon tank. I've also got one of the open valves that lock onto the valve stem. I guess I could lock it on, run over by the compressor and just throttle the ball valve on until it (hopefully) seats....or blows. Close the ball valve if it's successful.

What happens to the tire if it pops off the rim? Does it just pop off and no big deal or does it shred the tire as it sends the whole 150# combo flying?

Barring anyone having a better idea...tomorrow night I think I'm going to roll this thing out of the shop to minimize damage to things, use the locking chuck and throttle the ball valve and hope for the best. Wish me luck! :)

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Honestly, I'd just get rid of those sx2 tires

 

[Toreadorranger]

How does the block of wood help? Wouldn't it lift the inner half of the wheel away from that inner bead of the tire?

I always used a 5 gallon bucked upside down when I did my H1s, lets the tire hang and helps center it with the inner bead. I did 38" SX all the way to 47" LTBs that way.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Perfectly ok to live another day. If you have a rig tall enough, you could always slide the tire under while inflating to keep it from going into orbit. Kinda a ghetto tire cage.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Is there no inner beadlock ring to sandwhich everything together? Those are Stazworks wheels right?

 

[Sean]

Honestly, I'd just get rid of those sx2 tires

And if I had a buyer at even $500 a tire, that's probably what I'd do at this point. Unfortunately, I've got over $4K in the 4 so I'd be losing 1/2.

 

[Sean]

Is there no inner beadlock ring to sandwhich everything together? Those are Stazworks wheels right?

Yep...Stazworks, but they are split rims essentially with a giant PVC sleeve that locks the two beads. The two halves of the wheel are supposed to sandwich things together evenly, but apparently, SW is saying they've had this problem with the SX2 (not sure if they had problems with all SX2s or just stickies like mine) where one bead just won't seat evenly when mounting them up.

 

[RustyC]

You can add a few chains through the wheel and across the tread to retain the tire in case of failure. Safety wire the hooks. Control the air to the stem remotely.