Who has their CDL?

[scooter2374]

I'm hourly with this gig, that by the mile shit is for the birds. This company is going through some growing pains and it is slowly realizing its not 1990 anymore. We've lost a few guys recently to jobs with better pay plain and simple.

 

[DRTDEVL]

Why would they pay you a bonus for a job they are already paying you to do?

You are already paid to pre trip and post trip the vehicle.

Seems messed up to me.

Because...

Because if they're paid by the mile, they're not paid to pre and post trip.

Follow the incentives.

This is the way.

When doing inspections, you aren't being paid. When sitting in the coops with "the man" poring over your truck and e-log, you aren't getting paid. Pass it all, however, and that's $200 for your trouble. We also have no pre-pass as an additional incentive to keep the trucks in perfect shape. Can't bypass the scales, so the odds of being pulled around back are increased.

 

[Tiha]

Because...

This is the way.

When doing inspections, you aren't being paid. When sitting in the coops with "the man" poring over your truck and e-log, you aren't getting paid. Pass it all, however, and that's $200 for your trouble. We also have no pre-pass as an additional incentive to keep the trucks in perfect shape. Can't bypass the scales, so the odds of being pulled around back are increased.

So you guys have no hourly rate for on duty not driving time?

But you have to log your pre trip and or post trip, and you have to log on duty not driving while at the scale. You don't get paid for that?

I hope you are getting $1 a mile.

 

[DRTDEVL]

So you guys have no hourly rate for on duty not driving time?

But you have to log your pre trip and or post trip, and you have to log on duty not driving while at the scale. You don't get paid for that?

I hope you are getting $1 a mile.

Nope. That's the business model and its been that way for over 40 years. Its essentially piece rate. More production = more pay.

 

[Tiha]

I am not sure what our current rate is but we pay like 50 cents a mile and $15 an hour for on duty not driving.
So you could milk the clock but your paycheck sucks.

We don't give bonuses for good inspections.

 

[DRTDEVL]

I am not sure what our current rate is but we pay like 50 cents a mile and $15 an hour for on duty not driving.
So you could milk the clock but your paycheck sucks.

We don't give bonuses for good inspections.

We take piece rate a level further, seriously encouraging performance.

<1800 miles/week = 55 cpm
1800-2399 = 55 cpm + 4 cpm mileage bonus (59 cpm)
2400+ = 55 cpm + 10 cpm bonus (65 cpm)

Of course there is detention at $20/hr, additional stops at $30, 1 cpm safety bonus (paid quarterly), cell phone reimbursement, etc.

O/Os are obviously paid a lot more, but they pay for their trucks, fuel, repairs, etc. In this emissions era, I'd probably be a company driver instead of owning, just because of the emissions systems.

 

[blthomas]

We're hourly where I run LTL, OT after 45 hours. That's the P&D side, line haul is .73 a mile, with some accessory hook and drop pay at terminals.

I made decent money running mileage, with load/unload stop pay, but I had to fight for detention or break down pay anytime I needed it. Especially detention, sitting at a mill.

My liquid job paid the best mileage and stop pay. Really generous, probably my favorite, but too much time out from home.

Never had a bonus for a inspection. That's a nice incentive.

 

[DRTDEVL]

We're hourly where I run LTL, OT after 45 hours. That's the P&D side, line haul is .73 a mile, with some accessory hook and drop pay at terminals.

I made decent money running mileage, with load/unload stop pay, but I had to fight for detention or break down pay anytime I needed it. Especially detention, sitting at a mill.

My liquid job paid the best mileage and stop pay. Really generous, probably my favorite, but too much time out from home.

Never had a bonus for a inspection. That's a nice incentive.

Detention pay is one of the biggest issues in the industry. Companies claim its paid, but then they make excuses instead of paying, like "you weren't on the door on time" or "we've filed with the customer and you'll get it if we get it." That's one of the things everyone here loves, if they were on-time for their appointment and put it on their trip sheet, all they have to do is call dispatch at the 2-hour mark to let them know, and they get their $20/hr in 15 minute increments... and that's paid from the time the 2-hour mark is hit until they are loaded/unloaded, paperwork is in hand, and they are ready to depart the property.

 

[aczlan]

Detention pay is one of the biggest issues in the industry. Companies claim its paid, but then they make excuses instead of paying, like "you weren't on the door on time" or "we've filed with the customer and you'll get it if we get it." That's one of the things everyone here loves, if they were on-time for their appointment and put it on their trip sheet, all they have to do is call dispatch at the 2-hour mark to let them know, and they get their $20/hr in 15 minute increments... and that's paid from the time the 2-hour mark is hit until they are loaded/unloaded, paperwork is in hand, and they are ready to depart the property.

That is one thing we push here at work (warehouse), we try to have a truck unloaded/loaded as soon as possible after it gets here.
Sometimes the drivers have to wait due to logistical constraints (ie: 2-3 trucks show up at the same time who need to unload and reload from the same dock, or they arrive at lunchtime (some mysteriously show up between 11:55AM and 12:15PM every day )), but we do our best to get the drivers out the door as soon as possible and waits of over an hour to start loading/unloading are very rare unless you happen to be truck #3 who has to unload at the same dock (and even then, if you need to unload at the busy dock and reload elsewhere, if its a quiet day aside from that one dock, the guys will sometimes unload you at a different dock and run the unloaded product around to where it needs to go so you can make your 2nd or 3rd trip for the day).

Aaron Z

 

[Projectjunkie]

That is one thing we push here at work (warehouse), we try to have a truck unloaded/loaded as soon as possible after it gets here.
Sometimes the drivers have to wait due to logistical constraints (ie: 2-3 trucks show up at the same time who need to unload and reload from the same dock, or they arrive at lunchtime (some mysteriously show up between 11:55AM and 12:15PM every day )), but we do our best to get the drivers out the door as soon as possible and waits of over an hour to start loading/unloading are very rare unless you happen to be truck #3 who has to unload at the same dock (and even then, if you need to unload at the busy dock and reload elsewhere, if its a quiet day aside from that one dock, the guys will sometimes unload you at a different dock and run the unloaded product around to where it needs to go so you can make your 2nd or 3rd trip for the day).

Aaron Z

Huh, I was working at a fairly remote union mine, and felt that trucks always showed up at lunch time, I figured it was just me being grumpy, but maybe it's just that common to angle for detention pay?

Not regulars, just whatever the cat drug in

 

[aczlan]

Huh, I was working at a fairly remote union mine, and felt that trucks always showed up at lunch time, I figured it was just me being grumpy, but maybe it's just that common to angle for detention pay?

Not regulars, just whatever the cat drug in

This guy is a regular, pretty sure he just likes stopping and eating here, or if he gets lunch here there aren't enough hours left after he delivers for another run?
He isn't usually here more than 60-90 minutes total (including our guys 30 minute lunch break), so getting detention pay is very unlikely.


Aaron Z

 

[PAToyota]

So, what things should people be looking at if they're considering taking a CDL job? Locally I'm seeing offers of about $85K ("Averages projected at...") to $130K a year and sign-on bonuses of about $5K to $18K. Frankly, that seems to be ridiculous money - which makes me suspicious...

 

[ridenby]

So, what things should people be looking at if they're considering taking a CDL job? Locally I'm seeing offers of about $85K ("Averages projected at...") to $130K a year and sign-on bonuses of about $5K to $18K. Frankly, that seems to be ridiculous money - which makes me suspicious...

 

[Projectjunkie]

So, what things should people be looking at if they're considering taking a CDL job? Locally I'm seeing offers of about $85K ("Averages projected at...") to $130K a year and sign-on bonuses of about $5K to $18K. Frankly, that seems to be ridiculous money - which makes me suspicious...

I saw an article on zerohedge this morning that freight rates were way down and there's a glut, or going to be a glut in drivers, just one guy's article, but he had data to back it up

Personally, I'm not looking to be an over the road truck driver, but to pair it with another skill, a heavy equipment field mechanic with a CDL is $5-8 higher than a shop mechanic. Or, it's hard to break into lineman work, you've gotta know somebody and start at the bottom, but if you've got a CDL and a clean record, and some real world industrial/ construction experience, you can get hired by the same utility on the operating side, and on a similar pay scale

 

[PAToyota]

Yeah, few things in life are easy. I'm just wondering how much of a shitshow some of these positions are?

I saw an article on zerohedge this morning that freight rates were way down and there's a glut, or going to be a glut in drivers, just one guy's article, but he had data to back it up

Personally, I'm not looking to be an over the road truck driver, but to pair it with another skill...

I've been seeing a lot of articles saying that there are about 80K drivers needed nationally. Of course, that means everyone is out there trying to get their license and we'll have a glut before long. But it doesn't seem that we've hit that peak yet.

I totally agree with you - I'm not looking to be a day-in-day-out truck driver. But the idea of doing it for a couple years and banking the money is gaining some traction if it is not an absolute shitshow.

 

[ridenby]

Yeah, few things in life are easy. I'm just wondering how much of a shitshow some of these positions are?



In my limited experience, most of those positions redefine shitshow. That said there are cdl jobs that do what they claim and pay well. Seems one just has to be willing to change jobs till you find one that suits.

Depending on how far they are from you, go talk to drivers.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Yeah, few things in life are easy. I'm just wondering how much of a shitshow some of these positions are?



I've been seeing a lot of articles saying that there are about 80K drivers needed nationally. Of course, that means everyone is out there trying to get their license and we'll have a glut before long. But it doesn't seem that we've hit that peak yet.

I totally agree with you - I'm not looking to be a day-in-day-out truck driver. But the idea of doing it for a couple years and banking the money is gaining some traction if it is not an absolute shitshow.

At some point I can see myself chasing contract work for a couple years, maybe it's trucking, maybe it's running a loader for a pipeline company living in a 5th wheel, maybe it's running cranes in Seattle, dunno, but if a guy is willing to live out of suitcases, there's work.

West Texas isn't booming yet, but it's on the way up

Gold is rising steady, consider Alaska. Maybe rent your house for a year and get after it.

What are you doing currently?

 

[DRTDEVL]

So, what things should people be looking at if they're considering taking a CDL job? Locally I'm seeing offers of about $85K ("Averages projected at...") to $130K a year and sign-on bonuses of about $5K to $18K. Frankly, that seems to be ridiculous money - which makes me suspicious...

Here's something to chew on: In 2019-2020, the average advertised pay for an OTR driver was $75k, but in the same time frame, the BLS reported the average OTR pay at a hair over $47k.

Basically, most advertisements are full of shit. They take the top 10% of drivers in their company and average their pay and call that their average driver's pay without divulging the math tricks or informing you that this includes pay for being a trainer, etc. You have to call each of them up and listen to what they are saying, write it down, and call them back later if interested. See if any of it makes sense... like if the job is "Regional Reefer" and they are saying you will average 3,000 miles per week, they are FOS. The average Regional Reefer driver only gets 2200-2400 miles per week, nowhere close to 3k (due to the nature of the job, there are more "live" loads/unloads which take time out of the driver's clock to run and make money). If they are saying their drivers average $85k, but they are paying less than 50 cents per mile, they are FOS. Without other pays factored in, that would require 170,000 miles. If 12% of the pay comes from other sources (layover, stops, detention, etc; 12% is the national average), that means you need to drive 150,000 miles to make that money at 50 cents per mile. That breaks down to just under 2900 miles per week, which is, once again, a red flag that they are LYING to get drivers in the door.

The national average turnover rate for trucking companies is 98%. About half of the people leave the company due to lies during the recruitment process (promise of big money that doesn't exist) and the other half due to mistreatment by the company (dispatchers, mostly). Ask the company what their turnover rate was this past year. We'll gladly tell you that for the past 10 years, we have enjoyed turnover rates ranging from 29% to 37%. If the recruiter hems and haws, balks at giving you a number, or that number is greater than 50%, THERE IS A REASON! You don't want to work there.

Our company isn't the best paying, but far from the worst. Everyone makes 55 cpm base, and mileage/performance pay begins at 1800 miles/week. Make 1800 miles, and you can add 4 cpm for all miles that week (not marginal or only the miles beyond 1800). Make 2400 miles, add another 6 cents. This means you will make 55/59/65 cpm for all your miles, depending upon how many you drove that week. Accessorial pays average about 15% here, too. The average driver runs about 2300 miles per week here. Based on that, you can deduce that the average driver gets about half his pay at 59 and the other half at 65, averaging 62 cpm +15% accessorial. 2300 * 52 * .62 + 15% = $85,275... and these are our actual average numbers, which is why we primarily lose drivers to disqualifying medical factors, chemotherapy being the #1 (they're getting old). The few that leave for "greener pastures" usually return within a few weeks when they realize those advertised numbers elsewhere were a bunch of bovine excrement. The last one left for a company that was advertising 70 cpm and 2800 miles per week. 3 weeks later, he was calling to see if he could come back and drive for us, as those advertised numbers never materialized.

Basically, caveat emptor to the extreme in this industry. Say NO to any 1099 position (bunch of thieves use that trick, usually Russian, Eastern European, or Asian owners). Due diligence is a must. Don't believe a thing the recruiter is saying if it sounds rosy, as it isn't. And ask any questions here... I'll tell it to you straight.

Also, check into the forums at the "Truckers Report." There are actual driver reviews about many carriers there, and drivers with first-hand knowledge dealing with the companies will tell you what to watch out for with each particular one.

 

[PAToyota]

That's the kind of info I was looking for - and mostly what I was expecting. It's like anything else advertising big money up front - when you actually get there you find there is a bunch of "fine print" to get anywhere near those numbers.

 

[DRTDEVL]

That's the kind of info I was looking for - and mostly what I was expecting. It's like anything else advertising big money up front - when you actually get there you find there is a bunch of "fine print" to get anywhere near those numbers.

Its even more bleak than what I wrote earlier for a new driver, as companies that pay like this usually don't hire new drivers. If you really want in the industry with good pay from the start, look into LTL carriers. Some of them will even sponsor you in school, so you start on the docks for them, then go to school and split between dock work and line haul. Easily 6-figures within a couple years. YRC, Estes, R+L, Old Dominion, etc. Driving wiggle wagons.

 

[PAToyota]

Its even more bleak than what I wrote earlier for a new driver, as companies that pay like this usually don't hire new drivers.

That was my first thought about these ads - that they're making it out like these numbers are what you're going to be hired at even though they're saying "averages" in the same breath.

 

[Tiha]

I saw an article on zerohedge this morning that freight rates were way down and there's a glut, or going to be a glut in drivers, just one guy's article, but he had data to back it up

This is a never ending cycle.

Whatever is paying the best the OO jump too, when rates drop they jump to the next hot thing. We see it in the trailer market all the time.

One day refers will be impossible to find because meat was paying the best. Next week it will be liquid bulk and tankers are all gone. Week after that will be dry freight and the vans are gone.

Not week, takes a couple years. but it is a normal pattern going on for many years now.

 

[blthomas]

Its even more bleak than what I wrote earlier for a new driver, as companies that pay like this usually don't hire new drivers. If you really want in the industry with good pay from the start, look into LTL carriers. Some of them will even sponsor you in school, so you start on the docks for them, then go to school and split between dock work and line haul. Easily 6-figures within a couple years. YRC, Estes, R+L, Old Dominion, etc. Driving wiggle wagons.

Im late to this party, but I'd chase fuel, food service, or LTL (I'm in that group).

Usually food service and LTL have driver programs. We had a dock worker here for 90 days, and entered the driver program.

I've never done food myself, it's a huge physical commitment, but every driver I talked too is 80k plys, usually m-f. But its alot of hands on, floor load, dolly work. Alot.

I've hauled fuel, and its excellent money, everyone I talked to was hourly, with OT.

Easily 90k plus, one dude worked every available hour/shift, said he grossed 130k. Thats 6 days a week, he had no set day off. I don't run fuel because of the schedule. I worked every weekend and holiday for 2.5 years.

I left fuel to work for SAIA LTL. I'm a city driver, I work essentially 9-6ish, m-f. At 45 hours a week I'm at 75k. Benefits are very good. If I average 5 hours OT a week, I'm knocking on 90k. We OT after 45 hours.

One difference at SAIA from my other LTL jobs, I can signup for linehaul (dragging doubles) on the weekends if I've got hours to run. Easy way to stack money. They give you turns or loops you can do usually in under 12 hours.

LTL work as city driver usually means some labor to a degree. But I dont kill myself, if I think it needs a lift gate (I'm not in a assigned lift gate trailer), they dont fight me one bit. Or if its too tight for a 48 or 53 trailer, again, resend it no worries on a smaller rig.

I'm not bothered at all during the day, and most days flow easily.

I do drive in northern VA, some balk about it, but I dont think its a big deal.

I'll back this fucker anywhere I think I can jamb it in. I dont hesitate to block traffic ever. Hit the hazards, wait for a hole, get on the horn and back it in.

Go run LTL, it will make you a good driver in a hurry, and all the big outfits have very respectable benefits, perks and retirement.

 

[scooter2374]

My company just bumped everybody up another 3 bucks an hour to try to keep more guys. A company that we share lot space with just had ads on indeed starting at $36 an hour for local work.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

My company just bumped everybody up another 3 bucks an hour to try to keep more guys. A company that we share lot space with just had ads on indeed starting at $36 an hour for local work.

That’s 70+ right out the gate before overtime. College is looking less and less attractive with stuff like this.

Give it another 10 and the guys who get dirty for a living will be making more than the average college grad.

 

[Tiha]

My company just bumped everybody up another 3 bucks an hour to try to keep more guys. A company that we share lot space with just had ads on indeed starting at $36 an hour for local work.

Our company actually did that about a month ago. Hourly drivers got $2. Non drivers got $1 an hour.

I was shocked. Drivers actually make really good money now compared to when I started 30 years ago.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

You all gotta remember that the buying power of a dollar goes way down over time. $32,000 in 1990 is about the same as $70,000 today. Just because 70k sounds like a lot, doesn't mean it is a lot.

Never underestimate the power of inflation.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

You all gotta remember that the buying power of a dollar goes way down over time. $32,000 in 1990 is about the same as $70,000 today. Just because 70k sounds like a lot, doesn't mean it is a lot.

Never underestimate the power of inflation.

Most college kids will not make that much until they have 5-10 years under their belt. Stem degrees doctors lawyers are the exception.

$36 a hour with 5-10 hours of overtime a week your clearing 100k pretty easy. Not bad for a job a 18 yo kid could do if he had a little ambition to get his cdl.

 

[AKnate]

Glad I don't get miles paid. I've done about 900 miles in the last month.
Granted it's dirt "roads".
Like yesterday a 12 mile trip took me almost an hour.

Was talking to one of the guys working for one of the big oil companies and they are hiring... at $18/hr "great money"
I about opened my wallet and handed the guy $20. I figured they made at least $30/hr
Hell when I was doing firewood full time I paid a guy to stack firewood and rake up sawdust $15/hr cash.

 

[DRTDEVL]

Most college kids will not make that much until they have 5-10 years under their belt. Stem degrees doctors lawyers are the exception.

$36 a hour with 5-10 hours of overtime a week your clearing 100k pretty easy. Not bad for a job a 18 yo kid could do if he had a little ambition to get his cdl.

Drivers are exempt from the FLSA... AKA: Most are paid straight time or OT after something like 50 or 60 hours. Finding a job that pays OT after 40 is rare in most of the country.