What's the Most Popular V6 Engine for Light Weight Crawlers Currently?

[Sean]

I've been going round and round on this myself researching for a new buggy build that might happen someday. I really want to like the honda J35, but its just too much to adapt it to be useable. They can be had super cheap, like $300 around here which is surprising, but spending twice that on a GM 3.9 would make more sense as you can bolt a trans to it and the starter is on the correct side. I haven't considered the new 4.3 as I assumed it was way out of my budget.

I haven't looked yet, but do you know if the 3.9L has options to mate up TH400?

 

[Sean]

Why only one trans option?

Seems like if they have an adapter to a 700R4, they have all the GM longitudinal transmissions, with stand alone controllers.


Correct, the 4.3L is the same as all the other LS/LT mounting, to a longitudinal trans.

I believe they also share the same PCMs.

Also, most of the big companies are making cams etc, for them.

No idea....that's just the only trans option I've seen...and it was through Marked's website.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

I haven't looked yet, but do you know if the 3.9L has options to mate up TH400?

It is the standard 60deg V6 bellhousing pattern. No idea if TH400s came with that pattern. I know you can get th350, 700r4, 4l60 and 904 trans options.

 

[Sean]

Youch....4.3L LV3s locally are $5-7.5K with 70K plus miles.....and LV1s out of the vans are non-existent.

 

[Sean]

It is the standard 60deg V6 bellhousing pattern. No idea if TH400s came with that pattern. I know you can get th350, 700r4, 4l60 and 904 trans options.

If you were getting an adapter for one of those, who would you source it from? I realize it's just an adapter plate...just wondering if you have a preference for a particular brand.

 

[chaplinfj60]

Youch....4.3L LV3s locally are $5-7.5K with 70K plus miles.....and LV1s out of the vans are non-existent.

i was on carpart a little bit ago, found some in vans, but damn high priced 4k plus in my searching

 

[JR4X]

If you were getting an adapter for one of those, who would you source it from? I realize it's just an adapter plate...just wondering if you have a preference for a particular brand.

Summit racing

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

If you were getting an adapter for one of those, who would you source it from? I realize it's just an adapter plate...just wondering if you have a preference for a particular brand.

You could use something like this, although it specifically says th350 and not 400:
GM 2.8/3.4 V6 TH350/2004R/700R4/4L60 Transmission Adapter Plate

Maybe they offer a th400 version also? It might just need a different pilot bushing. I'd just look around.

 

[Sean]

You could use something like this, although it specifically says th350 and not 400:
GM 2.8/3.4 V6 TH350/2004R/700R4/4L60 Transmission Adapter Plate

Maybe they offer a th400 version also? It might just need a different pilot bushing. I'd just look around.

LOL....yep..I actually shopped that one while looking. I would think worst case, I could get a local machine shop to do it if I give them a template.

 

[Sean]

My big concern with any engine in a crawler is oil starvation when standing on its ass nose or laying on its side. These 3.9’s with the factory pan seem to take just about any angle without running to zero psi oil pressure. You’re not doing that with an LS without doing a dry sump system. And before anyone thinks they’re going to scold me on the LS comment, I want you to know I’ve been standing next to them when they spun a bearing and locked up because oil pressure went low for one second.

Along those lines....is the 4.3L LV1/LV3 susceptible to starvation when vertical with the stock pan? Since there's limited aftermarket for the LV1/3....I'd wager a custom dry sump would just add even more cost to the build making the 3.9L all the more attractive.

 

[Grendel]

Along those lines....is the 4.3L LV1/LV3 susceptible to starvation when vertical with the stock pan? Since there's limited aftermarket for the LV1/3....I'd wager a custom dry sump would just add even more cost to the build making the 3.9L all the more attractive.

This fixes that:

OIL PAN, GM LV1 LV3 REAR SUMP, 6 IN DEEP, ROAD RACE BAFFLE

GM 4.3 Liter V6 EcoTec3 LV1/LV3 6 IN Deep, Rear Sump, Road Race Baffled Oil Pan

www.moroso.com

There's a lot of support for them.

Like cam's:

GEN V LT V6 Truck Camshafts - Camshafts - CAMSHAFTS, LIFTERS & PUSHRODS

GM Performance Parts for the lowest prices on the web. LSX Performance Parts. Proven LS Horsepower. From F-body to Corvette, Sierra to Silverado, G8 to GTO, we carry everything for making power with your LS or Gen V Ride!

briantooleyracing.com

 

[JR4X]

I haven’t found the right search path yet. I have an adapter kit to put a GM 90° bellhousing transmission onto the back of 302/351W ford. It has the adapter plate and a flywheel adapter to use the GM 3 bolt torque converter. I paid $260 dollars for it and I’m pretty sure it’s summit racing branded. At the time I bought it I could have should’ve bought the GM 60° to GM 90° adapter for the same price. My ford adapter is to put a TH350/700R4/4l60E behind the SBF

 

[Grendel]

I haven’t found the right search path yet. I have an adapter kit to put a GM 90° bellhousing transmission onto the back of 302/351W ford. It has the adapter plate and a flywheel adapter to use the GM 3 bolt torque converter. I paid $260 dollars for it and I’m pretty sure it’s summit racing branded. At the time I bought it I could have should’ve bought the GM 60° to GM 90° adapter for the same price. My ford adapter is to put a TH350/700R4/4l60E behind the SBF

Why would you mismatch 60 degree to 90 degree, when OEM combos exist?

 

[Sean]

This fixes that:

OIL PAN, GM LV1 LV3 REAR SUMP, 6 IN DEEP, ROAD RACE BAFFLE

GM 4.3 Liter V6 EcoTec3 LV1/LV3 6 IN Deep, Rear Sump, Road Race Baffled Oil Pan

www.moroso.com

There's a lot of support for them.

Like cam's:

GEN V LT V6 Truck Camshafts - Camshafts - CAMSHAFTS, LIFTERS & PUSHRODS

GM Performance Parts for the lowest prices on the web. LSX Performance Parts. Proven LS Horsepower. From F-body to Corvette, Sierra to Silverado, G8 to GTO, we carry everything for making power with your LS or Gen V Ride!

briantooleyracing.com

A 6" deep pan would make the overall package pretty darn tall for stuffing in a chassis though.

 

[JR4X]

Along those lines....is the 4.3L LV1/LV3 susceptible to starvation when vertical with the stock pan? Since there's limited aftermarket for the LV1/3....I'd wager a custom dry sump would just add even more cost to the build making the 3.9L all the more attractive.

I don’t know, I’ve only known one person personally who ran one. Lew Lively had one in a buggy built by Steve Nantz and it seemed to work just fine. But I don’t remember if it was dry sumped

 

[2big bronco]

JR4X Because you have more experience then anyone I know with them what would your thoughts be on a 2.3 ecoboost/ c4 in a crawler?

 

[JR4X]

Why would you mismatch 60 degree to 90 degree, when OEM combos exist?

If you wanted a 60° 904 th350 or 700r4 today to start a build, how long would it take you find me one?

Because everyone has 90° transmissions on the shelf, in junkyards. And I’m not letting Jesse Haines hold me hostage for thousands of dollars for a TF 904 he got for free.

 

[Grendel]

If you wanted a 60° 904 th350 or 700r4 today to start a build, how long would it take you find me one?

Because everyone has 90° transmissions on the shelf, in junkyards. And I’m not letting Jesse Haines hold me hostage for thousands of dollars for a TF 904 he got for free.

About four seconds - I have them on the shelf. 700R4 (both 60 and 90) and TH350 (both 60 and 90).

Especially if talking about a 4L60E with it's removable bell housing - better than a 700R4 and stand alone controllers are cheap and completely tunable.

Edit to add detail: 4l60E from an 2000 S truck is 60 Degrees, removable bell. Bolts onto any other 4L60E.

I also just bought a Painless Wiring controller, on close out from A-tech for like 400.00. Nice to be able to control line pressure, shift points and more.

 

[Bebop]

I haven’t found the right search path yet. I have an adapter kit to put a GM 90° bellhousing transmission onto the back of 302/351W ford. It has the adapter plate and a flywheel adapter to use the GM 3 bolt torque converter. I paid $260 dollars for it and I’m pretty sure it’s summit racing branded. At the time I bought it I could have should’ve bought the GM 60° to GM 90° adapter for the same price. My ford adapter is to put a TH350/700R4/4l60E behind the SBF

I'd rather buy a conversion bellhousing from Reid for more $

BH010 — Reid Racing

www.reidracing.biz

 

[woody]

I use this 60>90 adapter between my L67 and 700R

GM401 GM 3800 Series V6 Engine to Chevy Automatic

Materials Included: (1) Adapter plate - GMC 3800 V6 Series 1 & 2 to Chevy auto(1) Crank Adapter - GMC 3800 V6 Series 1 & 2 to Chevy V8 style automatic(1) Torque converter drive plate(3) FHSCS M12-1.75 X 45 (2) FHSCS M12-1.75 X 60 (1) HEX NUT M12-1.75 (8) SHCS 5/16-18 X 1 3/4 (6) 7/16-20 x 3/4...

transmissionadapters.com

 

[Grendel]

I'd rather buy a conversion bellhousing from Reid for more $

BH010 — Reid Racing

www.reidracing.biz

Yeah, I've used those when there isn't something factory available. Like a Cad 500 to a 4wd 4L80E.

 

[JR4X]

It’s odd that you weirdos are afraid of a 1/2” thick adapter plate to run 100% off the shelf parts. So say you trash a transmission at moon rocks and you can go pick up a crate TH350 or TH400 from the Summit warehouse in sparks. Or run to Vegas from Sand Hollow.

I'd rather buy a conversion bellhousing from Reid for more $

BH010 — Reid Racing

www.reidracing.biz

That’s what we have in the 4531 car for running an ATI TH400 behind a SBF. There’s no reason to run a $5000+ dollar trans behind a few hundred dollar junkyard sub 300 Hp engine in a trail crawler. 90° K case transmissions are everywhere while 60° ones are not. And I can’t believe anyone would recommend a 4L60 with a straight face.

That one Woody just posted, I’d run that and parts I could pick up from anywhere. Partly because I see what he does with a nice little GM V6 and that adapter to a regular transmission.

 

[Bebop]

I can’t believe anyone would recommend a 4L60 with a straight face.

4L60 and TH700 are the same thing.

 

[JR4X]

4L60 and TH700 are the same thing.

Sort of. Neither known for their horsepower eating longevity. One requires a computer has a lot more plastic trash in it and the other runs its self caveman style.

Is there a constant pressure FMVB available for a 4L60 to run it with no computer and no TV cable?

 

[rockota]

All aluminum Chevy 4.3 v6 is what I'd go with.

4.3L V-6 LV1 Small-Block Engine | GM Powertrain OEM

The 4.3L V-6 LV1 Small-Block Engine from GM Powertrain OEM Sales combines direct injection and variable valve timing to provide power, torque, and efficiency

poweredsolutions.gm.com

That looks like a great fit for a 1st gen tacoma repower as well.

 

[Grendel]

It’s odd that you weirdos are afraid of a 1/2” thick adapter plate to run 100% off the shelf parts. So say you trash a transmission at moon rocks and you can go pick up a crate TH350 or TH400 from the Summit warehouse in sparks. Or run to Vegas from Sand Hollow.


That’s what we have in the 4531 car for running an ATI TH400 behind a SBF. There’s no reason to run a $5000+ dollar trans behind a few hundred dollar junkyard sub 300 Hp engine in a trail crawler. 90° K case transmissions are everywhere while 60° ones are not. And I can’t believe anyone would recommend a 4L60 with a straight face.

That one Woody just posted, I’d run that and parts I could pick up from anywhere. Partly because I see what he does with a nice little GM V6 and that adapter to a regular transmission.

Why, when you can go pick up the same transmission in 60 degree as well? They're OEM, lol.

Many 60 degree v6's with 4L60E/700R4.

Sort of. Neither known for their horsepower eating longevity. One requires a computer has a lot more plastic trash in it and the other runs its self caveman style.

Is there a constant pressure FMVB available for a 4L60 to run it with no computer and no TV cable?

There is a FMVB for both, they just run full line pressure - at less than 400hp they're fine.

 

[Bebop]

Sort of.

Not sort of. Short of the valve body they are the same, give or take some minor differences.

Neither known for their horsepower eating longevity.

I thought we were talking about sub 300hp crawler cars???

One requires a computer has a lot more plastic trash in it and the other runs its self caveman style.

Not necessrily true. The latest 4L65e are much better than any TH700 ever.

Is there a constant pressure FMVB available for a 4L60 to run it with no computer and no TV cable?

Yes

Agreed with Grendel for the OEM factor.

 

[Grendel]

BUTT

You asked, I'd go 4.3L in gen 3,4 or 5 variations, with a *L80E, no adapter between the two.

You asked me about 60 degree trans. I answered.

I do have a 4L60E that is holding 445hp in a drift car, that's currently at 40K miles.... which is probably 30K miles or more than this project would see.

 

[Sean]

I'm usually pretty leery of eBay....but it appears that's the place to buy less expensive 4.3Ls.

EDIT JFYI....2014 is the first year of the LV3 in the Silverado/Sierra 1500s.

Engine 4.3L VIN P 8th Digit Opt LV1 Fits 18 EXPRESS 2500 VAN 553540 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Engine 4.3L VIN P 8th Digit Opt LV1 Fits 18 EXPRESS 2500 VAN 553540 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[JR4X]

JR4X Because you have more experience then anyone I know with them what would your thoughts be on a 2.3 ecoboost/ c4 in a crawler?

The guys I know with them love them. But they put them in portal cars and did dry sump right off the bat to keep the engine as short as possible because in lines are taller overall than V engines. My buddy Jeff is beating the hell out of one in this buggy. Backed with a shorty ATI C4. Woody has a cameo in the second one. Jeff has me convinced to run a 2.3 in my rear steer car when I get around to it. So now I’m looking for C4 cores.