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What's the Most Popular V6 Engine for Light Weight Crawlers Currently?

arse_sidewards said:
Pretty much everything automotive reputation related comes down to very minor differences from brand to brand and product to product, variable differences between owners and usage, and people who have no mechanical competency going on the internet and blowing all that shit out of proportion. Say nothing of all the journalists and "content creators" that "need content" so they're constantly whipping up some clickbait bullshit that the know-nothing's love to re-share and magnify.

The pentastar is probably fine. They wouldn't still be making it sans major revisions if it was a warranty money pit.
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Pretty much my thoughts too. I know the early versions in the jeeps had some cracking issue in the heads at the exhaust port, and they have had lifter issue like any other chrysler motor. I've had personal experience with two JKs and three JLs over the past 8yrs and none of them have ever had an issue with the motor. Your way more likely to have an issue with the electronics than any problem with the motor.
 
Most* modern engines, especially if you can strip off/out some of the EPA shenanigans, are pretty good for durability. Many of the failures that people love to hate (insert brand/engine/transmission here) are due to lack of proper care and maintenance on top of being beat like a rental. For a crawler engine that will likely get beat hard at times, but spend a bunch of time just off idle, and will likely get oil/filter changes in tens of hours, I can't see a major fault with any of them, provided a suitable core is sourced. The major worry with any of these is low air speed through the radiator, and if you don't have your head up your ass when setting it up that can be solved with planning and a bit of $$. It really has more to do with selecting a platform that has the performance characteristics needed for your driving style (you aren't majorly improving off-idle torque with software).

*yes I acknowledge there are a few "lemon" platforms out there, but none of them have been seriously brought up in this discussion.
 
Essentially based off the car industry and used parts industry. Motors in high demand fetch a premium while motors with a low demand do not. If you see a motor they made millions of and they still fetch a premium there's a reason... That pentastar platform is far from perfect.

You can buy a K-series for dirt but a Hyundai/Kia 4cyl is 3-4 times the price cause they have issues blowing up.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
I almost bought a honda J series motor, but backed off as the deal wasn't really working out and I really wanted to explore the 8spd trans idea. A friend suggested the pentastar motor to get to the 8spd trans and I started going down that rabbit hole. Its interesting how bad the reputation seems to be for that motor, and yet other than some early lifter problems, I can't seem to figure out why? I think its just a motor people love to hate. And maybe its usage in minivans and base model vehicles that get no love, no maintenance, no excitement, so no one wants it.

Technically its a 60deg v6 DOHC with variable valvetrain, all aluminum block and heads. Makes 300hp, 280tq depending on model. Its short, like 19.5" short and from what I have found and can measure its about the same size as the honda J or LZ9 motors. Chrysler has put this motor in everything. From FWD transverse mounted minivans and cars, to RWD longitudinally mounted cars like the charger and 300, to 4wd 1500 trucks and jeeps. From what I can tell all of these are the same basic block and motor, with different oil pan and intake configurations. I think I saw a post that said they had made over 15million of these motors and they are still in production. Even with all of that, they still aren't "cheap" like the honda motor and you need a lot of electronics to run one unless you go stand alone. It looks like you can find charger and chrysler 300 motors for about 1500. Jeep motors seem to go for about 4k for some dumb reason at least those were the prices on carpart.com.

If you can get beyond a th400 or 4L60 trans, the pentastar bolts up to a few 8spd ZF transmissions. The jeep version I believe still uses a 27spline output and an atlas will bolt to it. I think the cheaper charger 8hp45 AWD output shaft is also 27spline. So with possibly just a clocking ring of some sort you should be able to bolt a D300 or atlas to the back of one of those. I'm not sure what version is used in the 1500 trucks(8hp70?), but I would guess its the same scenario.
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The 8 spd ZF is an amazing trans.....I will say that.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
Pretty much my thoughts too. I know the early versions in the jeeps had some cracking issue in the heads at the exhaust port, and they have had lifter issue like any other chrysler motor. I've had personal experience with two JKs and three JLs over the past 8yrs and none of them have ever had an issue with the motor. Your way more likely to have an issue with the electronics than any problem with the motor.
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I guess if you take them vertical for any length of time, oil drains into the cylinders and starts burning it. They make catch cans to delay that issue.
 
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No one needs an 8-speed trans for crawling. The gm 6l80 would be a decent choice only for the 4:1 first gear.
 
94toytruck said:
Essentially based off the car industry and used parts industry. Motors in high demand fetch a premium while motors with a low demand do not. If you see a motor they made millions of and they still fetch a premium there's a reason... That pentastar platform is far from perfect.
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If all engines were in the same type of vehicle with the same use by similar drivers I'd agree.
Pentastar is in everything from JKU to Ram to Challenger to minivan. V6 Chally driver is compared to Altima driver for reasons. They aren't popping in vans and cars for good reason with decent maintenance, they are in Jeeps/Rams.
A perfect example of this is the previous engine in the Wrangler, the minivan 3.8L V6. Good minivan engine, bad Wrangler engine.
Arse has disparaged the jap reliability love somewhat wrongly, but one of his reasons are sound: The typical first owner of the Jap engine was a meticulous bastard. The typical owner of a pentastar is someone in their mid 20's who is stretching to make the payment on his Wrangler/Challenger and is lucky to get his oil changed once/year (probably when he gets his tax return)
94toytruck said:
You can buy a K-series for dirt but a Hyundai/Kia 4cyl is 3-4 times the price cause they have issues blowing up.
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Cannot argue that though:laughing:

Sean said:
The 8 spd ZF is an amazing trans.....I will say that.
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Before they rolled out the 8HP75 we had a bunch of them here for testing, being driven by the highest output 6.4L on a simulated 20-25k towing test over 60-100k miles. All factory tunes on everything, production-intent parts. Simulated drive cycle of their test track and 12% grades. Engine shift points exactly as you find them in the pickup. Unless you were hot-shotting from Omaha to Reno for the entire life of your truck, the typical owner couldn't run it as hard in 300k miles (which was the purpose of the repeated drive cycle)

I cannot share much due to NDA, but I will say this:
When that era Ram gets into my price range, I'll be buying one in a Mega cab variant. Of course I'll have to look hard for one that's not been without regular maintenance (see previous comments) but if I find a well-maintained one I will keep it forever, in spite of my hatred for automagic trannys.
 
the_white_shadow said:
No one needs an 8-speed trans for crawling. The gm 6l80 would be a decent choice only for the 4:1 first gear.
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Agreed. OD would be nice for guys with portals...but 8 speeds definitely aren't necessary.
 
IowaOffRoad said:
If all engines were in the same type of vehicle with the same use by similar drivers I'd agree.
Pentastar is in everything from JKU to Ram to Challenger to minivan. V6 Chally driver is compared to Altima driver for reasons. They aren't popping in vans and cars for good reason with decent maintenance, they are in Jeeps/Rams.
A perfect example of this is the previous engine in the Wrangler, the minivan 3.8L V6. Good minivan engine, bad Wrangler engine.
Arse has disparaged the jap reliability love somewhat wrongly, but one of his reasons are sound: The typical first owner of the Jap engine was a meticulous bastard. The typical owner of a pentastar is someone in their mid 20's who is stretching to make the payment on his Wrangler/Challenger and is lucky to get his oil changed once/year (probably when he gets his tax return)

Cannot argue that though:laughing:


Before they rolled out the 8HP75 we had a bunch of them here for testing, being driven by the highest output 6.4L on a simulated 20-25k towing test over 60-100k miles. All factory tunes on everything, production-intent parts. Simulated drive cycle of their test track and 12% grades. Engine shift points exactly as you find them in the pickup. Unless you were hot-shotting from Omaha to Reno for the entire life of your truck, the typical owner couldn't run it as hard in 300k miles (which was the purpose of the repeated drive cycle)

I cannot share much due to NDA, but I will say this:
When that era Ram gets into my price range, I'll be buying one in a Mega cab variant. Of course I'll have to look hard for one that's not been without regular maintenance (see previous comments) but if I find a well-maintained one I will keep it forever, in spite of my hatred for automagic trannys.
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Yeah, I hate autos...but that ZF in the wife's Jeep is fantastic (except for reverse which requires a fuck ton of throttle to get it to move....guessing that's a programming/safety thing though and not the transmission's fault)
 
I would agree on not needing 8spds in a crawler, but I want that wide gear spread in the trans and specifically not the t-case. Most of the 8spd trans are close to 5-1 first gear. I don't think the 10spds get any lower, but I'd look at those if they were. I don't have the money to build multiple buggies so I'm not looking at specifically building a comp crawler style rig. Also, I wheel the sierras, JV, and occasionally sand hollow, so the huge gear jumps of a 4-1 t-case shifting to get between obstacles is annoying. I'd rather just bump up and down a few more gears. I can see if you only wheel private parks that maybe that isn't an issue for you.

Engine selection is as much about the engine, as the trans you run, and what you want to get out of the vehicle in your use area.
 
My 1994 Explorer has the stock 4.0, a 60 degree 700R4 and a 3.8 Atlas II. It does the slow trail stuff very well, but not on the highway due to lack of HP. It's got just about everything else to make it a outstanding overall off-roader. I'm planning on swapping in a late model GM V6, and adding a doubler, possibly a NWF iBox, after I get it registered in Arizona. This thread is really delivering for me.
 
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